Lots of people. You're probably thinking of consumer applications, such as Java applets, to run a few annoying web widgets, or crappy Java mobile phone games. I agree Java is pretty pointless there and has largely been replaced by Flash, HTML5, JavaScript, iOS, etc.
The real users of Java are people like universities, banks and financial institutions, research institutes, developers, and a gazillion and one specialised vertical markets. Any kind of professional or niche application is highly likely to be written in Java.
Just because you only use your computer for surfing the net and playing games doesn't mean there aren't many, many people who rely on Java for business critical applications every single day, many of whom might not even be aware they're running a Java application.
A major market is education. Loads and loads of software that students and staff depend on (simulation, modelling, teaching, exam submission software, etc.) is written in Java. Apple's core market may be consumers rather than the enterprise, but you can be sure they don't want universities telling all their freshmen "you'll have to buy a Windows or Linux laptop, not a Mac, otherwise you won't be able to run any of the software you're going to need on your course".
If you have a computer laying around to run OS 9 apps, perhaps Lion isn't for you.
By dropping Rosetta, many of those software vendors might get off their butts and upgrade their software or drivers.
We have a small business so I understand the Microsoft Office 2004 vs. 2011 issues. I know it's a pain to upgrade all your spreadsheets to the new version. It's painful to upgrade to new software. But the gain is usually a more secure, faster, more efficient OS and down the road, even better Apps that improve our productivity.
Change can suck. But we really should try to relish it rather than resist it. There is no innovation without change.
I can't believe people are hating on Front Row. To me its one of the most important features of Mac OS X. Without it i have have no reason to upgrade to Lion nor buy a Mac with it, if i can't downgrade. For me, if they axe Front Row, I axe being an Apple user after 25 years.
I can't believe people are hating on Front Row. To me its one of the most important features of Mac OS X. Without it i have have no reason to upgrade to Lion nor buy a Mac with it, if i can't downgrade. For me, if they axe Front Row, I axe being an Apple user after 25 years.
Most who dislike Front Row simply don't use it, don't know what it is or would rather run XBMC/VLC or some other media software which often runs better under Linux or Windows. Of course there is Plex which is Mac like but who knows what will happen with the LG connection it has. The Plex client still does not properly support new Minis ( and similar Mac's running the same graphics' chipset). Plex and XBMC do not support AFP. I hope Apple has something else in mind for Front Row. They should improve it, not get rid of it. It's not clear what, if any, their strategy is for the living room.
Rosetta is very clearly needed, very clearly. If they drop it, Lion adoption is going to slow down a lot.
Most businesses don't switch to a new OS until 10.x.5 ish in general, now they might even hold that off longer. Though most of the time we tend to find ways to let new hardware run on a older OS.
Rosetta/PowerPC apps - your best bet is going to be some kind of VM. Hopefully Apple will turn a blind eye, in the same way they have to people offering emulations of older Macs.
That's still going to lose the seamless integration that Rosetta offered, but - like Classic - developers have had plenty of time to migrate now.
(For me, it means a decision as to whether to finally upgrade MS Office, which I think is the only PowerPC application that gets occasional use).
Java - I'm perfectly happy with what they're doing. For me it's going to be a lot better to have more timely updates of the server-side JDK, than the embarrassment of not being able to do any work with Java 6 because Apple's version was always 6-9 months behind - for the same of a more 'native' GUI.
I am surprised there are so many people using PPC apps. Even if the particular app you like has no Intel version, there are many apps on the Mac App Store, maybe one of them would do as an alternative?
As an Appleworks 6 user still, I'm not thrilled with Apple's decision. I've got 12 years+ of databases created/maintained w/Appleworks. I was very grateful for Rosetta for keeping me going with all the upgrades to OS X. I never found a database software I liked to switch to, so I stuck with Appleworks. I wish Apple would create a database software for iWorks.
Locationt/Library/Application Support/Microsoft/Office Converter Support/Open XML for Charts.app
Yep. Both definite problems. Wonder if Adobe and Microsoft may actually fix the issues when their software won't run, rather than deferring it?? They've both been ignoring the obvious Intel 64 bit migration - and it Adobe's case that is ridiculous (CS is one of the programs that would most benefit from 64-bit).
(Bryce I can somewhat sympathise with - they're not selling millions of copies of their software. On the other hand, the only people I know who use Bryce are Mac users, and anecdotally they blame Bryce, not Apple, for incompatibility. It's not an unreasonable position to expect software suppliers to support current 'hardware' - which is how most people get their OS - when they buy a new machine).
Yep. Both definite problems. Wonder if Adobe and Microsoft may actually fix the issues when their software won't run, rather than deferring it?? They've both been ignoring the obvious Intel 64 bit migration - and it Adobe's case that is ridiculous (CS is one of the programs that would most benefit from 64-bit).
(Bryce I can somewhat sympathise with - they're not selling millions of copies of their software. On the other hand, the only people I know who use Bryce are Mac users, and anecdotally they blame Bryce, not Apple, for incompatibility. It's not an unreasonable position to expect software suppliers to support current 'hardware' - which is how most people get their OS - when they buy a new machine).
Of course, both the CS5 and Office 2008 core applications are 64 bit Intel (mostly?).
Bryce has no equivalent that I know of, with its range of capabilities and has a rich heritage. Something nice about the application actually, is the community that includes Mac and Windows users (up to Leopard and Win 7) talking on the one forum. (...and the creativity on display!)
I don't have Rosetta installed on my mac and I rarely see an Application that wants me to install Rosetta. If I find such an App I have always denied the installation of Rosetta because I don't want to clutter my Mac with frameworks I don't necessarily need. The are always alternative programs and while they might not be as good as the older ones, they are maintained.
And i use droplets created by Photo Drop EVERY DAY. Are there resizing droplets that are Intel native? I want to drag and drop to resize photos. I don't want to open an app every time I need to do it, and I don't want to create an AppleScript, TYVM.
Comments
Yikes, no Rosetta ??!!
I have a ton of apps that require Rosetta.
I am so screwed.
If Rosetta is important to you, you're only screwed if you upgrade to Lion. If you don't then all is fine, you just won't be on the latest OS.
Sooner or later it was bound to happen, just like Apple will eventually abandon 32-bit and move totally to 64-bit
If Rosetta is important to you, you're only screwed if you upgrade to Lion. If you don't then all is fine, you just won't be on the latest OS.
Sooner or later it was bound to happen, just like Apple will eventually abandon 32-bit and move totally to 64-bit
It's fine to tell people not to upgrade, but what happens when they need a new computer?
http://bugreport.apple.com
Java? Who cares.
Lots of people. You're probably thinking of consumer applications, such as Java applets, to run a few annoying web widgets, or crappy Java mobile phone games. I agree Java is pretty pointless there and has largely been replaced by Flash, HTML5, JavaScript, iOS, etc.
The real users of Java are people like universities, banks and financial institutions, research institutes, developers, and a gazillion and one specialised vertical markets. Any kind of professional or niche application is highly likely to be written in Java.
Just because you only use your computer for surfing the net and playing games doesn't mean there aren't many, many people who rely on Java for business critical applications every single day, many of whom might not even be aware they're running a Java application.
A major market is education. Loads and loads of software that students and staff depend on (simulation, modelling, teaching, exam submission software, etc.) is written in Java. Apple's core market may be consumers rather than the enterprise, but you can be sure they don't want universities telling all their freshmen "you'll have to buy a Windows or Linux laptop, not a Mac, otherwise you won't be able to run any of the software you're going to need on your course".
By dropping Rosetta, many of those software vendors might get off their butts and upgrade their software or drivers.
We have a small business so I understand the Microsoft Office 2004 vs. 2011 issues. I know it's a pain to upgrade all your spreadsheets to the new version. It's painful to upgrade to new software. But the gain is usually a more secure, faster, more efficient OS and down the road, even better Apps that improve our productivity.
Change can suck. But we really should try to relish it rather than resist it. There is no innovation without change.
Sooner or later it was bound to happen, just like Apple will eventually abandon 32-bit and move totally to 64-bit
I thought 32-bit and 64-bit each have their own advantages.
I'll miss Front Row. I find it useful on my iMac.
Apple wants you to buy an Apple TV. Their corporatism is hurting their soul.
Java not installed no problem,
But w/o Rosetta I simply cannot upgrade to Lion. One Family License not sold.
I can't believe people are hating on Front Row. To me its one of the most important features of Mac OS X. Without it i have have no reason to upgrade to Lion nor buy a Mac with it, if i can't downgrade. For me, if they axe Front Row, I axe being an Apple user after 25 years.
Most who dislike Front Row simply don't use it, don't know what it is or would rather run XBMC/VLC or some other media software which often runs better under Linux or Windows. Of course there is Plex which is Mac like but who knows what will happen with the LG connection it has. The Plex client still does not properly support new Minis ( and similar Mac's running the same graphics' chipset). Plex and XBMC do not support AFP. I hope Apple has something else in mind for Front Row. They should improve it, not get rid of it. It's not clear what, if any, their strategy is for the living room.
philip
The funny thing is there's still PPC apps in CS5!
Rosetta is very clearly needed, very clearly. If they drop it, Lion adoption is going to slow down a lot.
Most businesses don't switch to a new OS until 10.x.5 ish in general, now they might even hold that off longer. Though most of the time we tend to find ways to let new hardware run on a older OS.
I am a fan of Bryce - http://www.daz3d.com/i/software/bryce7?_m=d
From what I can determine on their forum, Bryce won't be going Intel native on Mac in the foreseeable future (I might be wrong).
I also found these examples, the first belonging to CS5 (Intel), the second, Office 2008 (Universal). Would these cause problems if not updated?
Last Modified
Kind
64-Bit (Intel)
Location
Version
Last Modified
Kind
64-Bit (Intel)
Get Info String
Location
That's still going to lose the seamless integration that Rosetta offered, but - like Classic - developers have had plenty of time to migrate now.
(For me, it means a decision as to whether to finally upgrade MS Office, which I think is the only PowerPC application that gets occasional use).
Java - I'm perfectly happy with what they're doing. For me it's going to be a lot better to have more timely updates of the server-side JDK, than the embarrassment of not being able to do any work with Java 6 because Apple's version was always 6-9 months behind - for the same of a more 'native' GUI.
I am a fan of Bryce - http://www.daz3d.com/i/software/bryce7?_m=d
From what I can determine on their forum, Bryce won't be going Intel native on Mac in the foreseeable future (I might be wrong).
I also found these examples, the first belonging to CS5 (Intel), the second, Office 2008 (Universal). Would these cause problems if not updated?
Last Modified
Kind
64-Bit (Intel)
Location
Version
Last Modified
Kind
64-Bit (Intel)
Get Info String
Location
Yep. Both definite problems. Wonder if Adobe and Microsoft may actually fix the issues when their software won't run, rather than deferring it?? They've both been ignoring the obvious Intel 64 bit migration - and it Adobe's case that is ridiculous (CS is one of the programs that would most benefit from 64-bit).
(Bryce I can somewhat sympathise with - they're not selling millions of copies of their software. On the other hand, the only people I know who use Bryce are Mac users, and anecdotally they blame Bryce, not Apple, for incompatibility. It's not an unreasonable position to expect software suppliers to support current 'hardware' - which is how most people get their OS - when they buy a new machine).
Yep. Both definite problems. Wonder if Adobe and Microsoft may actually fix the issues when their software won't run, rather than deferring it?? They've both been ignoring the obvious Intel 64 bit migration - and it Adobe's case that is ridiculous (CS is one of the programs that would most benefit from 64-bit).
(Bryce I can somewhat sympathise with - they're not selling millions of copies of their software. On the other hand, the only people I know who use Bryce are Mac users, and anecdotally they blame Bryce, not Apple, for incompatibility. It's not an unreasonable position to expect software suppliers to support current 'hardware' - which is how most people get their OS - when they buy a new machine).
Of course, both the CS5 and Office 2008 core applications are 64 bit Intel (mostly?).
Bryce has no equivalent that I know of, with its range of capabilities and has a rich heritage. Something nice about the application actually, is the community that includes Mac and Windows users (up to Leopard and Win 7) talking on the one forum.
Also using CS3 but those apps are all Universal.
Baldur's Gate and Starcraft...
And i use droplets created by Photo Drop EVERY DAY. Are there resizing droplets that are Intel native? I want to drag and drop to resize photos. I don't want to open an app every time I need to do it, and I don't want to create an AppleScript, TYVM.
I'm still using Office 2004... yikes!
Me too.
I realised that I'll have to buy a more recent version of Office.
Then I remembered that I have. But it's still in the shrink wrap.
C.