Gartner lowers PC sales forecast, says Apple's iPad 'redefining' computing

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  • Reply 101 of 114
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,982member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Unless Apple decides to stop producing desktops and laptops, I would expect them to keep iPad dependent on PC. They still want people to purchase their computers as well, don't they?



    I'm not sure what Apple's thinking in this area is. One thing I know I wouldn't want to do is to download the yearly 700 MB plus size OS upgrades over the air, or some of the big games I have, or some other large apps. I would hate to be syncing all of this over the air. So we need a real wire for best performance. Apple could supply that, but they aren't, so far. So we need a computer for now.
  • Reply 102 of 114
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,982member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post


    To me the irony is that Apple won't even support Leopard on this, let alone Tiger (requires SL 10.5.8 as I recall), yet took the time to develop code that covers not only Win 7 and Vista (now, what, 5 years old?) but even XP which is 10!



    This is kind of pissy, but very savvy. Apple's always done more to "encourage" their base to upgrade than MS ("encourage" as in, "if you don't re-up with new gear or a new OS or other software, sorry, but you can't use our latest other dohickeys). MS has kept the ability to run lots of old programs and legacy devices longer than Apple not because they want to, rather in deference to pressure from their many Enterprise and SMB customers who've stabilized their internal software on "old reliable" computers.



    .......Note: This is a problem which Apple (in some ways regrettably for them) doesn't have - but their plan for re-entering the Enterprise market now rests solidly on iOS devices.

    .......The new business class Apple Store genius access category is another early step into what will be - I think - Apple's first really successful push into businesses of all sizes and industries.




    And it's a well-known fact that Mac users are much more active software purchasers than Windows users - we're just a more enthusiast class and we're willing to pay to enthuse. And willing to let Apple lead us to renew our hardware and software more often, even though our hardware lasts longer and our programs are generally more stable.



    Which, incidentally is what Google, to its chagrin, is discovering about its Android users. They're cheap. And they buy a fraction of the apps iDevice users do. That is, there are some gearheads (many of whom troll here) that like the more ways they can twiddle the thing and feel more "under the hood" about it, but most droid users are gonna mostly use whatever's on it out of the box, or go after free to 99 cent apps only. A majority market share does not always turn out to be the most successful business plan in the end.



    And Apple users do get something out of it: cleaner, leaner, more modern OS and program code and less geeky configuration of our growing Apple eco-system bits and pieces because there's fewer variables for developers to account for.



    But it is ironic. Because it blatantly shows another side of the "Apple Tax" - and only you can decide if you're getting full value for paying it.



    10.5.8 IS leopard. SL is 10.6.



    It's true that Apple product purchasers are more willing to buy more software, and that's a good thing.
  • Reply 103 of 114
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,982member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


    Fortunately, it only redefines reading electronic materials, web browsing, some basic productivity activities and gaming.

    I was kinda scared of the fact professionals at Gartner could have started on writing things like that... Fortunately, only professionals at AppleOutsider can not tell web browsing from computing.



    Fortunately, your understanding of this differs from the estimated business this year which are estimated to be buying 10 million iPads for their use.
  • Reply 104 of 114
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,982member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post


    Mel, I may have diagreed with you in the past, but you nailed that down tight. To expand on your thought just a titch, the average user (Let's use the TAU shorthand here) doesn't get the constant harping on specs or or features, unless it impacts performance or experience with the device. The whole drive behind uptake of the iPad has very little to do with " drinking the Koolaid" or the "RDF" (note I didn't dismiss those entirely however) but everything to do with experience. How smoothly the interface operates how easy it is to do things. TAU just wants it to work easily and simply, without too much fuss and bother - which is why so many just use their tradition PC for email and internet and very little else. Almost the polar opposite of the usual geek - and why tech blogs are totally outraged that the iPad would enjoy so much popularity, that TAU would want to be emprisoned in a "walled garden" or limited by a "curated" platform.



    Google actively pursued getting the handset makers and carriers to switch to Android on their handheld devices, which they were happy to do, as it off-loaded R&D and development for the OS and applications from their budgets and was essentially free*. If they felt they needed a differentiation form other Android devices they applied a simply GUI overlay and pushed it out the door. It could have been any other free mobile OS and they would have behaved the same. It is pure opportunism by them and the result as you so correctly called out was based on that opportunism, not on a superior user experience.



    That being said, I fully anticipate Android to mine well down into the lower reaches of the feature phone segment until their are only a few if any cell phones that could not be called (by the current very flexible and non-defined standards) "smartphones". Google will plow the field wide and long for the "smartphone" class and Apple will cherry-pick the best and most profitable parts of that field and leave the rest for Android, WebOS and WP7 to divvy up between themselves.



    Sure, I agree with that. When I was thinking about getting an iPad right after the event last January, I thought it would be nice, and fun to use. When I got mine, I saw that I was right. But the more I used it, the more involved I became with it. Now, I use it more than my Mac Pro. Most of my forum posting has been done from my iPad for several months. The only thing I wish for is that Apple make the darned number select keys smaller, and more to the bottom, as I tend to hit them.



    With the 3GS selling for $49 on contract, the price is pretty good. And the ironic part of it is that that now 20 month old phone is still getting it's OS upgraded when many Android phones that just came out won't.



    At some point, pretty much all phones will be smartphones.
  • Reply 105 of 114
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,982member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bytorx1 View Post


    Spare me. what ever. Every one wants the ipad to be a computer like a laptop etc, if that is the case then buy a laptop - Apple is not looking to replace or

    kill it's laptop sales and if you have any common sense you'd read that the iPad/iPod/iPhone REQUIRE a PC/Mac to maintain / sync and update the iPad which is a DEVICE!.



    Spare you? Ok!



    But you and some others fail to see that computers are computers if they do similar things. Is a personal computer not a computer because it can't do what a mainframe can? Of course not.



    And just because they need to be connected to ANOTHER computer to do a few things, upon occasion, doesn't detract from the fact that they are computers.



    Really, you're just playing with semantics. It's the old idea of: "a rose by any other name smells just as sweet". Not an exact quote probably. But the idea is there. So you can call it whatever you like. That doesn't change what it does, and that's computing.
  • Reply 106 of 114
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,612member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Spare you? Ok!



    But you and some others fail to see that computers are computers if they do similar things. Is a personal computer not a computer because it can't do what a mainframe can? Of course not.



    And just because they need to be connected to ANOTHER computer to do a few things, upon occasion, doesn't detract from the fact that they are computers.



    Really, you're just playing with semantics. It's the old idea of: "a rose by any other name smells just as sweet". Not an exact quote probably. But the idea is there. So you can call it whatever you like. That doesn't change what it does, and that's computing.



    ...and the term personal computer was coined in the first place so that the masses who were taking an interest in owning one (and who now are buying the iPad) could be confident that they were buying an actual computer.



    The iPad as a computer is post-PC and is re-defining computing, just as the adoption of microprocessors and the term personal computer did all those years ago.
  • Reply 107 of 114
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,982member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post


    ...and the term personal computer was coined in the first place so that the masses who were taking an interest in owning one (and who now are buying the iPad) could be confident that they were buying an actual computer.



    The iPad as a computer is post-PC and is re-defining computing, just as the adoption of microprocessors and the term personal computer did all those years ago.



    That's quite true, and it's still a computer, no matter what some want to call it. We can say it's a device, whatever that's supposed to mean. We can call it other things, but so what, it's still a computer.



    It's just a different kind of computer. Just as mini computers were laughed at at first, and then microcomputers. Even our smartphones are computers. I don't understand why some people have problems accepting this.
  • Reply 108 of 114
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,612member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    That's quite true, and it's still a computer, no matter what some want to call it. We can say it's a device, whatever that's supposed to mean. We can call it other things, but so what, it's still a computer.



    It's just a different kind of computer. Just as mini computers were laughed at at first, and then microcomputers. Even our smartphones are computers. I don't understand why some people have problems accepting this.



    This could well be a generational phenomenon. Those of us who are pre-PC in age would understand...
  • Reply 109 of 114
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,982member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post


    This could well be a generational phenomenon. Those of us who are pre-PC in age would understand...



    It's possible, but I detect some other vibe from the people who don't want to accept it. And it may be the older generation, er, myself excepted of course, who are the worst.



    People have a lot invested in the technology they grew up with, and this frightens them. A long time ago, I taught a guy about DOS and PC's. He became pretty good at it. When Windows 3.1 came out, we was distraught. He was mad that all the work he did to learn DOS was wasted, and the people who were coming to him for his knowledge weren't coming around any more. Suffice to say, for years, he hated Windows. It wasn't "real" computing, because it was for the masses. And as we all know, if it's for the masses, it doesn't count.



    I believe that a lot of the frustration we're seeing over the idea that these tablets are computers is following that same trajectory with some people. There's little mystery. It's too easy. Anyone can do it, well, except for one of my friends for whom it took me two years (not kidding here), to teach to use the Google box.



    So they hang upon some small thing that they can point to that will give them some argument that these aren't REALLY computers. That makes them feel better. I know they will angrily deny it, and it won't be true for everyone (for some, it's just that the most popular model is an Apple product, and that's enough for them to denigrate it).



    But my daughter, 19 years old, and her friends, say that of course it's a computer.
  • Reply 110 of 114
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,612member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It's possible, but I detect some other vibe from the people who don't want to accept it. And it may be the older generation, er, myself excepted of course, who are the worst.



    People have a lot invested in the technology they grew up with, and this frightens them. A long time ago, I taught a guy about DOS and PC's. He became pretty good at it. When Windows 3.1 came out, we was distraught. He was mad that all the work he did to learn DOS was wasted, and the people who were coming to him for his knowledge weren't coming around any more. Suffice to say, for years, he hated Windows. It wasn't "real" computing, because it was for the masses. And as we all know, if it's for the masses, it doesn't count.



    I believe that a lot of the frustration we're seeing over the idea that these tablets are computers is following that same trajectory with some people. There's little mystery. It's too easy. Anyone can do it, well, except for one of my friends for whom it took me two years (not kidding here), to teach to use the Google box.



    So they hang upon some small thing that they can point to that will give them some argument that these aren't REALLY computers. That makes them feel better. I know they will angrily deny it, and it won't be true for everyone (for some, it's just that the most popular model is an Apple product, and that's enough for them to denigrate it).



    But my daughter, 19 years old, and her friends, say that of course it's a computer.



    Excellent conjecture! I too knew someone who had DOS wrapped around his little finger and who railed against Windows 3.1 as a fad and something he could not accept as true computing.



    Perhaps I should have said in my previous post that 'This could well be a non-Apple centric, generational phenomenon. Those of us who are pre-PC in age would understand...'



    I wonder how many of those who cannot accept an iPad as being a computer grew up using Macs? My guess would be not many to none.
  • Reply 111 of 114
    If an iPad can do what one does on a desktop or laptop computer then it is a computer.



    When the iPad came out the only thing it couldn't do that I regularly did on my computers was movie editing. Now it will do that.



    Something I sometimes do on my computer is watch DVDs. An iPad can't do that. It also can't play CDs. I don't buy music downloads. I purchase CDs. When there is a way to connect DVD and CD players to an iPad it will be more useful to more people. When it has the ability to connect to an external hard drive it will be even more like a conventional computer. Perhaps some apps already exist that do these things.



    Would I watch movies streamed over the internet on an iPad? Unless I was nowhere near home the answer would be no. I would prefer to watch on a larger screen.



    If I needed something portable as a computer I would buy an iPad. Right now I own a Mac Book and it is portable. It does what I need as a desktop too. There are seven cords plugged into it when it is at home (power, ethernet, USB keyboard, USB trackball, Firewire 400 External Hard Drive, audio out, video out). An iPad can connect to just a couple of things at once. If it had Thunderbolt maybe it could do more.



    One day I will get an iPad or similar computer. When that happens I'll keep my desktop computer or perhaps get another laptop that can be utilized as a desktop. The only reason I would get rid of my current 2008 Mac Book is if it is no longer compatible with programs I need or if it died. Right now my Mac Book running 10.5.8 works just fine.
  • Reply 112 of 114
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,982member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post


    If an iPad can do what one does on a desktop or laptop computer then it is a computer.



    When the iPad came out the only thing it couldn't do that I regularly did on my computers was movie editing. Now it will do that.



    Something I sometimes do on my computer is watch DVDs. An iPad can't do that. It also can't play CDs. I don't buy music downloads. I purchase CDs. When there is a way to connect DVD and CD players to an iPad it will be more useful to more people. When it has the ability to connect to an external hard drive it will be even more like a conventional computer. Perhaps some apps already exist that do these things.



    Would I watch movies streamed over the internet on an iPad? Unless I was nowhere near home the answer would be no. I would prefer to watch on a larger screen.



    If I needed something portable as a computer I would buy an iPad. Right now I own a Mac Book and it is portable. It does what I need as a desktop too. There are seven cords plugged into it when it is at home (power, ethernet, USB keyboard, USB trackball, Firewire 400 External Hard Drive, audio out, video out). An iPad can connect to just a couple of things at once. If it had Thunderbolt maybe it could do more.



    One day I will get an iPad or similar computer. When that happens I'll keep my desktop computer or perhaps get another laptop that can be utilized as a desktop. The only reason I would get rid of my current 2008 Mac Book is if it is no longer compatible with programs I need or if it died. Right now my Mac Book running 10.5.8 works just fine.



    With Apple's HDMI adapter cable, you can stream those movies and Tv shows to your big set.



    But without ripping your CD's, you can't watch them on your iPad without streaming them from your computer
  • Reply 113 of 114
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,582member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    With Apple's HDMI adapter cable, you can stream those movies and Tv shows to your big set.



    But without ripping your CD's, you can't watch them on your iPad without streaming them from your computer



    I'm not sure about that streaming over the HDMI cable to the TV. They've only said you can do "mirrored output" and while that would technically allow you to "stream" a movie, it's going to be forced into the iPad aspect ratio, then letter-boxed inside that, and, quite likely, effectively at iPad screen resolutions.



    I could be wrong, but that's how I interpreted the announcement.
  • Reply 114 of 114
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,982member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    I'm not sure about that streaming over the HDMI cable to the TV. They've only said you can do "mirrored output" and while that would technically allow you to "stream" a movie, it's going to be forced into the iPad aspect ratio, then letter-boxed inside that, and, quite likely, effectively at iPad screen resolutions.



    I could be wrong, but that's how I interpreted the announcement.



    It would be 720p, though it would be interpolated up to 1080p, from my interpretation.
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