Mercedes fuel cell car - one step closer
<a href="http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/service/magazin/technik_002_1.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/service/magazin/technik_002_1.htm</a>; for details about the car.
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/06/05/fuel.cell.cars.ap/index.html"; target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/06/05/fuel.cell.cars.ap/index.html</a>; this is about it going cross country.
The article states that the methanol fuel lasted about 300 miles. That's more than my wifes Saturn can do. Like all new technologies (transportation releated) it will start out on government and mass transit systems such as mail trucks and transit busses, and filter down to normal cars. The article says 2010 is optimistic though. Hopefully for our sake and the sake of the environment we step it up even sooner.
edit: That's 300 miles per tank full, not 300 miles total. Obviously it was refueled many times crossing the states.
[ 06-06-2002: Message edited by: Outsider ]</p>
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/06/05/fuel.cell.cars.ap/index.html"; target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/06/05/fuel.cell.cars.ap/index.html</a>; this is about it going cross country.
The article states that the methanol fuel lasted about 300 miles. That's more than my wifes Saturn can do. Like all new technologies (transportation releated) it will start out on government and mass transit systems such as mail trucks and transit busses, and filter down to normal cars. The article says 2010 is optimistic though. Hopefully for our sake and the sake of the environment we step it up even sooner.
edit: That's 300 miles per tank full, not 300 miles total. Obviously it was refueled many times crossing the states.
[ 06-06-2002: Message edited by: Outsider ]</p>
Comments
<strong><a href="http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/service/magazin/technik_002_1.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/service/magazin/technik_002_1.htm</a>; for details about the car.
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/06/05/fuel.cell.cars.ap/index.html"; target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/06/05/fuel.cell.cars.ap/index.html</a>; this is about it going cross country.
The article states that the methanol fuel lasted about 300 miles. That's more than my wifes Saturn can do. Like all new technologies (transportation releated) it will start out on government and mass transit systems such as mail trucks and transit busses, and filter down to normal cars. The article says 2010 is optimistic though. Hopefully for our sake and the sake of the environment we step it up even sooner.
edit: That's 300 miles per tank full, not 300 miles total. Obviously it was refueled many times crossing the states.
[ 06-06-2002: Message edited by: Outsider ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I hope that this is sooner than we hope. We need transportation of this nature now. Even though the US is not that dependent on oil, we have to set the trend toward vehicles like these. It could set us ahead of everyone. Of course the oil barons (Bush...et al) will delay these inovations until they can invest their oil money into them. Also, we have to wake up the general public to these. Gonna be hard to wake up all the soccar moms and RV fools we have in this country... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
If the fuel tank is properly separated from the passenger space, te nthere's nothing to worry about explsions.
Of course, a new fleet of H2 trucks will have to be made. They have to be refrigerated.
I wonder - you'd probably have to kleep the fuel cell running ALL the time just to run the refrigeration unit around the H2 tank. That's not so bad - hey, if you've got a big enough tank, ou can put friggin AC OUTLETS in your car! Cool!
<strong>Hmm... it would be great iff every gas station in America had a liquid H2 dispenser next to the gasoline dispensers.
If the fuel tank is properly separated from the passenger space, te nthere's nothing to worry about explsions.
Of course, a new fleet of H2 trucks will have to be made. They have to be refrigerated.
I wonder - you'd probably have to kleep the fuel cell running ALL the time just to run the refrigeration unit around the H2 tank. That's not so bad - hey, if you've got a big enough tank, ou can put friggin AC OUTLETS in your car! Cool!</strong><hr></blockquote>
My understanding is that the amount of H2 is not that grreat in a fuel cell. It does not tke much to make it work. That is why it is much more efficient right now to just extract it rather than store pure H2. Besides, methanol can be created quite easily. Shoot, you can use corn for fuel in these properly distilled. Lord n=know we have enough of it, and it would really help out the midwest if we did.
<strong>What's the cost per mile to run it? If it's more then it will fail. No ones going to buy a car that cost them more money on "gas".</strong><hr></blockquote>
you are right ,this technology has better chance to be release in EU rather than US due to the terrible prize of fuel in europe (overtaxed :the prize of the liter is the prize of a gallon of fuel in US)
<a href="http://www.ssu.missouri.edu/publications/policy/1997/vandyne.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.ssu.missouri.edu/publications/policy/1997/vandyne.htm</a>; this is from 1997 so it's not too out of date.
<a href="http://www.fsa.usda.gov/daco/bioenergy/2002ConversionFactorsPmtFormulas.pdf"; target="_blank">http://www.fsa.usda.gov/daco/bioenergy/2002ConversionFactorsPmtFormulas.pdf</a>; this is other stuff we can make ethanol out of and how much it can produce.
Ethanol is about $1.50 - $1.75 per gallon. And we can ramp up production when ever we want. The sooner we can tell the MidEast to fork off the better. Screw this dependency on foreign oil. Lets be self sufficient.
[ 06-06-2002: Message edited by: Outsider ]</p>
Many of the worlds fuel and pollution problems are largely down to Americans and their cars. To illustrate the point, I will compare my view of America, to Europe. In Europe people drive smaller, better packaged cars - small on the outside, big on the inside, with more economical engines. Our family car (which is incidentally also a Mercedes - an estate), is large and roomy, but still returns 35mpg+ most weeks. This is the same throughout most of Europe, with small city cars being very popular as well for their high mpg ratings.
In America however, my perception is that people choose to drive everywhere in large 4x4 cars, averaging about 15mpg! Why? Because of low fuel costs. If this is to change, Americans need to wake up, and move from their 4x4s into something a little more ozone friendly and economical. Why don't they do this? Because fuel is so cheap they don't need to.
I feel that it will take a petrol (gas for you guys
When petrol prices do eventually rise then I think that America will begin to look more seriosuly at H2 cars etc, but until then, it looks like it will remain at 15mpg fuel guzzlers for you!
That's my feelings anyway, sorry if I am steroetyping a bit, but I am slightly right am I not? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
The Toyota Prius gets 52 city and 45 highway MPG...
The first car I buy out of my own pocket will probably be a gas/electric hybrid. We'll need these to help break our dependency on gasoline before we start seeing fuel-cell and other clean-air vehicles driving around in thralls.
When the cost of the technology falls as technology progresses in a few years, hybrid cars etc will become more viable for more people.
In the mean-time, other clever technology will do for the rest of us. Mercedes is doing cool stuff like shutting off half of its v12 engines when not all of the power is needed - saves fuel and pollution, and no-one notices the difference! This kind of solution is ideal until we find a longer term solution and H2 and other technology is a feasible option.
Anyway, the fuel cell and oil thing is not a Republican/Oil Co. vs. Everyone else debate. It is about practicality. We cannot instantly convert over to a brand new system. The technology costs WAY more on these alternative fuel cars. A hybrid Civic for instance costs $5000+ more than a regular Civic. That $5000 takes several years to make back in gas savings. It really isn't economical to make everyone buy these cars right now. Hydrogen fuel cell cars also have a problem. GAS STATIONS DON'T SELL HYDROGEN. You can't sell the cars until the gas stations are converted. This would take countless years. Also, the speed and performance of these cars, at least hybrids, is too poor to make sport sedans, midsize/large SUV's, etc.
Also BTW, I get +90 (EU) Miles per gallon on my 1979 Vespa 100cc scooter, which tops out at 70-80 km/h (50mph?)
V8s are coooool. And sound so much better than those rice-burning little tinny sounding laughable looking import cars with twinkle toes paint jobs.
<a href="http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~ceugene/adm/MOV00094.MPG"; target="_blank">http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~ceugene/adm/MOV00094.MPG</a>; (1.3 MB)
2.35L turbocharged V8s producing in excess of 900 HP at 17000 RPM. Too bad they'll be history next year...
The roar of a Champcar completely destroys the high pitched whine of an F1 or the low-pitched rumble of an Indy car.
Yes, that roar at the end belongs to that single car that you see entering the hairpin.
[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
I agree we need to. But it ain't gonna happen for awhile.
[quote]Many of the worlds fuel and pollution problems are largely down to Americans and their cars <hr></blockquote>
Pollution perhaps, but fuel problems, what does that mean?
[quote]Americans need to wake up, and move from their 4x4s into something a little more ozone friendly <hr></blockquote>
Last time I checked, Ozone is being PRODUCED by car pollution.
Though, I agree we won't reduce cosumption until we have to. Also keep in mind that as one poster said, things are WAY more spread out here. Remember our country is 3,000 miles across, not a hundred. I am moving 26 miles from work in July. And our public transit SUCKS ASS.......don't forget that.
I also agree....we like BIG stuff. Big cars, Big macs (burgers and comps), big bombs, etc. Also, big breasted women are nice too.
Oh, and BTW, 15mpg isn't bad if you are talking something like a GMC Yukon. Try 8mpg.....now that's gotta suck.
[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
Yeah, Nancy is sooooo flat.
The real question is not dollars per gallon but DOLLARS PER MILE!
Granted, internal combustion engines have been tinkered with so much... a good fuel-efficient car cna go quite a distance on a gallon. nevermind those funky expensive cars that weigh so little you could lift them alone, a regular car could reach 50 mpg. That's $1.10 in my town for 50 miles.
Give an H2 car 10 years to be tinkered with. Efficiencies and eerthing can go up.
Now there's the problem with the logic of the naysayers - EVERY FUEL IS CONVERTED SUNLIGHT except nuclear fuels. And technically they came out of supernovas anyway
Oil is old dinos.
Coal is old plants.
Natgas is the heady stuff that comes out of piles of the last two.
All of these dervied their original energy from SUNGLIGHT!
Thus, these systems could work:
Electrolysis of water from an electrical source - preferably directly from solar. Or you can take from another - finish up the fossil reserves, then turn to something better. Fusion only works on a BIG scale. That's why it hasn't succeeded yet - they need bigger tests.
Solar energy converted into chemical energy in corn orr another grain. Ferment it and you get easy source of H2.
Cow farms - do oyu know mhow much methane cows burp and fart each day? How many steaks did you eat this month? And how much milk? Gotta be a lotta cows. If they're kept indoors then the methane can be collected
Then again, the sooner we can write off the arabs forever, the better. sob... I hear this might be good for the environment too! Ahh, the price of progress.