Give me numbers comparing iPhone to any other PHONE (or even all phones manufactured by a single company) and I'll be interested.
Otherwise give me numbers comparing all Android devices to All iOS devices.
Yep I would be interested in stats regarding ALL android VS ALL iOS, not just in the phone sector. Its pretty strange give OS stats without counting all the devices on one side. In other news there are more windows laptops than OS-X laptops. Ok, so?
Google got what it wanted - a secured beach head on mobile search and mobile space in general. Now niether apple nor Facebook nor anyone else can push google off of mobile devices. I'm surprised at how slow Apple's growth is, given the reduction in price of the iPhone 3GS. Still I doubt Rim will hold on to that second spot for long.
Android isn't doing well becuase of cheap phones, it's actually the reverse. All the recent HTC, MOTO and Samsung phones are good solid hardware with very good specs. That is why Android is now doing well. Android has been around for a while, if it was about cheap phones it would have been doing well years ago.
The cost of ownership on the latest Android phones is no different then the cost of ownership of the iPhone.
Cheap outdated hardware design and a bad OS is why RIM is doing poorly.
The "very good" high spec phones are not the ones that are selling in large volumes. All the Samsung Galaxy S phones last year sold 10M in 7 months worldwide. HTC's total phone volumes are not that large and of them, a relatively small proportion are the EVOs of the world. If they were selling in great numbers, they would tell us. Moto doesn't separate it's Droid X from its Cliqs and backflips or BOGO Droid 1s.
High-end Droids are good phones but they are not driving the Android market. It is likely that the non-Google chinese forks sell more than all the high-end Droids combined.
So? There are 150+ Android device makers, and from all devices they produce, about 10% are comparable or slightly better than iPhone 3GS. The rest are crap that have lifespan less than corn crops. Even Sony, HTC, Motorola, etc besides produce high end product, they also produce low end craps too. It's like comparing sales of Toyota to GM, Ford, Honda, KIA, Bajaj, Kijang, Baleno, etc combined.
Motorola get $1 profit for each Android phone, so they need to boost their production to get more profit.
Many of the Android phones that are running 2.1 or 2.2 are also on the same cycle as the iPhone 4. The Droid 2, Droid X, Evo and Incredible all came out around the same time as the iPhone 4. I don't see people having a fit that the 3GS is selling for 49.00 at ATT.
There are no free phones or BOGO with the top sellnig Android phones. Also even if that wsa the case it doesn't matter to Google or the hardware companies either because its the network provide that decides to eat that.
BOGO was invented for Android phones. What was worse was right from the launch all the top flavors of Android were sold BOGO. Here's the link.
If you want to compare Android to iOS on the other hand, you have to include all the devices that run iOS (platform to platform), otherwise it's similarly unfair by definition. It's not like there aren't Android tablets now and Android music players as well.
To compare "how Android is doing" versus iOS you have to include all devices. To compare "how the iPhone is doing" versus an Android phone, you have to compare phone to phone. iOS wins in each category of course.
Why? I don't see the point in that.
If we put aside, for a moment, issues with the reporting accuracy, the "smartphone" metric simply shows what smartphone platform people are buying in store.
From this information we can start to formulate a few theories, like the fact Android is on a number of different devices and carriers helps them in spite of not having a strong PMP/tablet showing.
When the next round of stats are released we may be able to tell the impact of iPhone being released on Verizon.
The comparison is only "unfair" if someone is trying to say Android "wins" (whatever that means) because of market share.
If that is the case you simply need to point out that they are drawing naive conclusions based on an incredibly narrow interpretation of the statistics, not that the comparison shouldn't exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doko
Meaningful numbers?
That would make McDonald's, billions served, the best food available? Don't think so.
No one is saying the thing that sells the most means it is the best. If they are then they are incorrect.
Your example would simply mean that McDonald's sold the most burgers.
Based on that statistic you could probably even start trying to deduce why McDonald's sold the most burgers, even though they are shit.
Yeah. Like he's making any money off iPads, iTunes, iPods, app downloads, and app payments.
No,
Assuming that was a bad attempt at irony, it fails on two counts. He doesnt actually come on stage and mention profits, or EPS. He leaves that to the conference calls.
He did mention money once: the $2B they gave out to devs ( not the $2.85B they earned). And nobody is denying that Apple likes money. What I was arguing against is the supposed claim that Apple wants to be an expensive boutique manufacturer - thats not true in iPods, or iPads, and it looks like it wont be true in iPhones, if Tim Cook was reported accurately.
Steve Jobs went on stage to make this point. The entry level iPad cannot be beaten in price by competitors.
Whatever about the problems with how this market is defined, the claim that "of course" Apple will lose as there is one iPhone and many Android phones is spurious, as that is not what is happening at the moment in iPads - where there are up to 100 competitors, believe it or not.
Not that Apple, or anybody, is going to win in the way that MS has won. They can get to 40% with better pricing.
As for the stats themselves. Not as bad as the headline.
1) Apple is 3rd, but will obviously be 2nd within a few months, as RIM's share declines.
2) Android's rate of growth is slowing.
3) Apple stayed steady on 27% on one carrier, and yet - as someone posted - even now verizon hones are 10% of all iPhones in the wild ( remember that is installed base so the sales to verizon must be huge).
No panic here, but no need to move the goal posts either. It is about market share.
2) If you are going to compare all iOS phones to all Andoird phones, then I would ask...WHY? What point are you trying to make? Who is the audience for the analysis? Is it meaningful to anyone other than as an academic statistical exercise?
This kind of analysis is helpful for carriers, hardware manufacturers, people writing apps, advertisers...
It's great that Apple sells plenty of non-phone iOS devices but there are people out there who find stats about just phones useful.
How could Apple be so stupid to not to give away their mobile OS for free to any and all beleaguered smartphone manufacturers that are looking to scrape their way back into the black? Why would they want to give up OS marketshare at the expense of making actual profits on their products? The fools? the business savvy fools!
Is this a repeat? Apple owned the computer market for a while, and then MS ate their lunch. Will Android be the new kid who swipes Apples lunch money this time...???
There are no lies here. It is concentrating on the phone market. The CNN report's headlines were bogus.
Yes, the iPod touch could be added in at the very least, for iOS. But it is also valid to concentrate on phone sales, as that's a valid category. And like it or lump it, thats what people see.
As for adding the iPod touch, i see it bringing iOS to 34% of all small form internet mobile type things which can sometimes make a phone call, and sometimes cant.
Adding in the iPad is not going to change these statistics that much. The iPad was very successful for a new product, for sure. But it;s total annual ( or 9 month) sales were 15M, less than one quarter of iPhones, and only slightly more than one quarter of iPod touch sales. In last years last Q it was less than the iPhone and the iPod touch.
That will change moving forward, as the iPad takes more of the iOS base.
EDIT:
I should say that with iPad I think iOS is still ahead. In both quarterly sales and installed base.
Is this a repeat? Apple owned the computer market for a while, and then MS ate their lunch. Will Android be the new kid who swipes Apples lunch money this time...???
Not impossible, but improbable, I think. Apple's running a marathon race now, and has been keeping a pretty good pace for the last 10 years, to the point that Microsoft is actually running scared, even though Mac OS X still has less than 10% PC marketshare. Apple went through a painful and humbling "learning experience" in the late 80s and early 90s?coincidentally, the years when Steve was gone.
My guess is, Steve's pep talk to his people all through the ranks is something like this:
1) Be PROUD of your work?because you're changing the world!
2) Work your asses off, because Apple is the best company to work for
3) Don't publicly concern yourself with the competition?let me and the senior executives worry about that.
4) the first rule of Apple product development is YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT APPLE PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT?if you do, the full force of Apple legal will be the least of your worries. Trust me, the consequences will be beyond your worst nightmares.
The iPhone and Apple is still the winner of the phone world. No other phone is as successful, and nobody else has transformed and innovated the entire phone industry like Apple has. The iPhone is the revolution that made all of those other copycat phones possible in the first place. If the iPhone hadn't come along, the other phones would still be looking like they did back in 2007.
The only way somebody can compete with Apple is to compare the iPhone to the phones from every single other android phone manufacturer put together. Good job.
What is that, like 1 VS 50 ? 1 VS 100? And many of those Android phones are dirt cheap, they're practically giving them away. And in some cases, they actually are giving them away. Color me unimpressed.
I don't understand why so many Apple people are so defensive. If you like your iPhone, use it. If you don't, get a different phone. Who cares if Apple has the largest market share. Is it because you want to justify you having your iPhone. They clearly are doing well enough that they won't be going away anytime soon. I am not a follower at all. I find what i like, and i buy it. I don't give a crap what anybody thinks of my purchase. I don't care that the guy beside me on the plane is trying to show off his iPad or smart phone. I couldn't care less. For example, I bought a Zune HD two months ago because I like the Zune Ecosystem and price point much better than iPod touch. I also really like the Zune user interface better than the iPod Touch. But, I am sure that buying a Zune seems idiotic to many Apple fans. That is great with me. I love my Zune. So my point is Apple makes good products, enjoy them, and stop worring about whether "everyone" wants them.
Where's the optimal balance? Right now the company is doing great with a minority share in mobile and less than 10% on the desktop. Does market share matter to them as much as it does to those who post in forums? Clearly dominating the market hasn't been required for profitabil
Well they keep bringing it up when they are ahead. So, yes it does.
Comments
Give me numbers comparing iPhone to any other PHONE (or even all phones manufactured by a single company) and I'll be interested.
Otherwise give me numbers comparing all Android devices to All iOS devices.
Yep I would be interested in stats regarding ALL android VS ALL iOS, not just in the phone sector. Its pretty strange give OS stats without counting all the devices on one side. In other news there are more windows laptops than OS-X laptops. Ok, so?
Android isn't doing well becuase of cheap phones, it's actually the reverse. All the recent HTC, MOTO and Samsung phones are good solid hardware with very good specs. That is why Android is now doing well. Android has been around for a while, if it was about cheap phones it would have been doing well years ago.
The cost of ownership on the latest Android phones is no different then the cost of ownership of the iPhone.
Cheap outdated hardware design and a bad OS is why RIM is doing poorly.
The "very good" high spec phones are not the ones that are selling in large volumes. All the Samsung Galaxy S phones last year sold 10M in 7 months worldwide. HTC's total phone volumes are not that large and of them, a relatively small proportion are the EVOs of the world. If they were selling in great numbers, they would tell us. Moto doesn't separate it's Droid X from its Cliqs and backflips or BOGO Droid 1s.
High-end Droids are good phones but they are not driving the Android market. It is likely that the non-Google chinese forks sell more than all the high-end Droids combined.
Motorola get $1 profit for each Android phone, so they need to boost their production to get more profit.
Let's use actual month-to-month, quarter-to-quarter, year-to-year data. Only Apple has the balls to declare how many units were sold.
Many of the Android phones that are running 2.1 or 2.2 are also on the same cycle as the iPhone 4. The Droid 2, Droid X, Evo and Incredible all came out around the same time as the iPhone 4. I don't see people having a fit that the 3GS is selling for 49.00 at ATT.
There are no free phones or BOGO with the top sellnig Android phones. Also even if that wsa the case it doesn't matter to Google or the hardware companies either because its the network provide that decides to eat that.
BOGO was invented for Android phones. What was worse was right from the launch all the top flavors of Android were sold BOGO. Here's the link.
http://www.theandroidsoul.com/buy-on...-from-verizon/
why all of the guessing, the actual US mobile market browser share numbers are here
http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os...-201002-201102
Apple has a sizable advantage. And worldwide the gap is even larger
http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os...-201002-201102
Nokia holds asia, south america significantly. Andriods trying beating that
Don't think so.
If you want to compare Android to iOS on the other hand, you have to include all the devices that run iOS (platform to platform), otherwise it's similarly unfair by definition. It's not like there aren't Android tablets now and Android music players as well.
To compare "how Android is doing" versus iOS you have to include all devices. To compare "how the iPhone is doing" versus an Android phone, you have to compare phone to phone. iOS wins in each category of course.
Why? I don't see the point in that.
If we put aside, for a moment, issues with the reporting accuracy, the "smartphone" metric simply shows what smartphone platform people are buying in store.
From this information we can start to formulate a few theories, like the fact Android is on a number of different devices and carriers helps them in spite of not having a strong PMP/tablet showing.
When the next round of stats are released we may be able to tell the impact of iPhone being released on Verizon.
The comparison is only "unfair" if someone is trying to say Android "wins" (whatever that means) because of market share.
If that is the case you simply need to point out that they are drawing naive conclusions based on an incredibly narrow interpretation of the statistics, not that the comparison shouldn't exist.
Meaningful numbers?
That would make McDonald's, billions served, the best food available? Don't think so.
No one is saying the thing that sells the most means it is the best. If they are then they are incorrect.
Your example would simply mean that McDonald's sold the most burgers.
Based on that statistic you could probably even start trying to deduce why McDonald's sold the most burgers, even though they are shit.
Convenience? Availability? Price maybe?
Yeah. Like he's making any money off iPads, iTunes, iPods, app downloads, and app payments.
No,
Assuming that was a bad attempt at irony, it fails on two counts. He doesnt actually come on stage and mention profits, or EPS. He leaves that to the conference calls.
He did mention money once: the $2B they gave out to devs ( not the $2.85B they earned). And nobody is denying that Apple likes money. What I was arguing against is the supposed claim that Apple wants to be an expensive boutique manufacturer - thats not true in iPods, or iPads, and it looks like it wont be true in iPhones, if Tim Cook was reported accurately.
Steve Jobs went on stage to make this point. The entry level iPad cannot be beaten in price by competitors.
Whatever about the problems with how this market is defined, the claim that "of course" Apple will lose as there is one iPhone and many Android phones is spurious, as that is not what is happening at the moment in iPads - where there are up to 100 competitors, believe it or not.
Not that Apple, or anybody, is going to win in the way that MS has won. They can get to 40% with better pricing.
As for the stats themselves. Not as bad as the headline.
1) Apple is 3rd, but will obviously be 2nd within a few months, as RIM's share declines.
2) Android's rate of growth is slowing.
3) Apple stayed steady on 27% on one carrier, and yet - as someone posted - even now verizon hones are 10% of all iPhones in the wild ( remember that is installed base so the sales to verizon must be huge).
No panic here, but no need to move the goal posts either. It is about market share.
2) If you are going to compare all iOS phones to all Andoird phones, then I would ask...WHY? What point are you trying to make? Who is the audience for the analysis? Is it meaningful to anyone other than as an academic statistical exercise?
This kind of analysis is helpful for carriers, hardware manufacturers, people writing apps, advertisers...
It's great that Apple sells plenty of non-phone iOS devices but there are people out there who find stats about just phones useful.
How could Apple be so stupid to not to give away their mobile OS for free to any and all beleaguered smartphone manufacturers that are looking to scrape their way back into the black? Why would they want to give up OS marketshare at the expense of making actual profits on their products? The fools? the business savvy fools!
Hahaha... Lolz. Nice.
Yes, the iPod touch could be added in at the very least, for iOS. But it is also valid to concentrate on phone sales, as that's a valid category. And like it or lump it, thats what people see.
As for adding the iPod touch, i see it bringing iOS to 34% of all small form internet mobile type things which can sometimes make a phone call, and sometimes cant.
Adding in the iPad is not going to change these statistics that much. The iPad was very successful for a new product, for sure. But it;s total annual ( or 9 month) sales were 15M, less than one quarter of iPhones, and only slightly more than one quarter of iPod touch sales. In last years last Q it was less than the iPhone and the iPod touch.
That will change moving forward, as the iPad takes more of the iOS base.
EDIT:
I should say that with iPad I think iOS is still ahead. In both quarterly sales and installed base.
Is this a repeat? Apple owned the computer market for a while, and then MS ate their lunch. Will Android be the new kid who swipes Apples lunch money this time...???
Not impossible, but improbable, I think. Apple's running a marathon race now, and has been keeping a pretty good pace for the last 10 years, to the point that Microsoft is actually running scared, even though Mac OS X still has less than 10% PC marketshare. Apple went through a painful and humbling "learning experience" in the late 80s and early 90s?coincidentally, the years when Steve was gone.
My guess is, Steve's pep talk to his people all through the ranks is something like this:
1) Be PROUD of your work?because you're changing the world!
2) Work your asses off, because Apple is the best company to work for
3) Don't publicly concern yourself with the competition?let me and the senior executives worry about that.
4) the first rule of Apple product development is YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT APPLE PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT?if you do, the full force of Apple legal will be the least of your worries. Trust me, the consequences will be beyond your worst nightmares.
The iPhone and Apple is still the winner of the phone world. No other phone is as successful, and nobody else has transformed and innovated the entire phone industry like Apple has. The iPhone is the revolution that made all of those other copycat phones possible in the first place. If the iPhone hadn't come along, the other phones would still be looking like they did back in 2007.
The only way somebody can compete with Apple is to compare the iPhone to the phones from every single other android phone manufacturer put together. Good job.
What is that, like 1 VS 50 ? 1 VS 100? And many of those Android phones are dirt cheap, they're practically giving them away. And in some cases, they actually are giving them away. Color me unimpressed.
I don't understand why so many Apple people are so defensive. If you like your iPhone, use it. If you don't, get a different phone. Who cares if Apple has the largest market share. Is it because you want to justify you having your iPhone. They clearly are doing well enough that they won't be going away anytime soon. I am not a follower at all. I find what i like, and i buy it. I don't give a crap what anybody thinks of my purchase. I don't care that the guy beside me on the plane is trying to show off his iPad or smart phone. I couldn't care less. For example, I bought a Zune HD two months ago because I like the Zune Ecosystem and price point much better than iPod touch. I also really like the Zune user interface better than the iPod Touch. But, I am sure that buying a Zune seems idiotic to many Apple fans. That is great with me. I love my Zune. So my point is Apple makes good products, enjoy them, and stop worring about whether "everyone" wants them.
Where's the optimal balance? Right now the company is doing great with a minority share in mobile and less than 10% on the desktop. Does market share matter to them as much as it does to those who post in forums? Clearly dominating the market hasn't been required for profitabil
Well they keep bringing it up when they are ahead. So, yes it does.