We love to quote Benjamin Franklin and speak of the 1st Amendment as if it were written by gods. None of those signatories would have wanted to see civil rights used as an excuse to bend the law. We love to think we are blessed with some wider perspicacity that everyone else lacks and we are seeing 1984 in its infancy but the truth is this is stopping mindless, selfish morons from destroying real lives.
Sure it won't stop it on its own, sure the information is still available, but why present it to people in a nice neat package and let them abuse it?
This is a common sense request and I hope Apple grant it. I believe they will.
Give it a rest you arm chair historical hack. Our founding fathers loved to tie on a good one and would be appalled at the suppressive and totally ridiculous limits on blood alcohol limits that are in place today. It is an emotional issue that has gone awry. Yes there should be limits, but it is a joke how low they are now set, and there are those that are pushing for even lower standards. It is time to stand up and say "enough"!
Typical knee jerk reaction from stupid legislators. This senator is simply wasting our taxpayer money. I'm not a fan of drinking and driving at all. Just the opposite. I have zero tolerance for drivers who get behind the wheel impaired. But the law requires that any police check-points be noticed to the public prior to implementation. The check-points will be in the local newspaper prior to happening. Where do you think the apps get their information? It is public record - before the check-point. If this senator didn't want the information out, then he should read case law, understand it and then try to change it. By trying to remove the app, he is simply showing his stupidity.
Publicized or not, if the app didn?t encourage driving drunk, or make it easier to get away with it, it wouldn?t be functional.
That means it is helping to commit a crime that kills innocent people.
Are you certain someone you know won?t be the next person killed because this app encouraged them to save taxi fare?
(No, the app itself is not a sobriety test. That?s a nice sound bite, though )
Oh, stop. As another member noted, DUI checkpoints must be publicized by law in most states...in advance. No one is advocating drunk driving. There is a difference between that and having two light beers and getting a technical DUI. That's what this app is for. I would totally use it. I NEVER drive drunk, but I will have maybe two beers with dinner and then drive an hour later. There is nothing wrong with that. But local BAC limits are sometimes as low as .02-.08 percent. That's half a beer for some people. The issue is that in order to prevent actual drunk driving, we've gone way too far. Frankly. I think random checkpoints are borderline unconstitutional anyway. It's search without probably cause in many cases.
Best solution here is to make the app makers include popups telling people not to drive drunk. People will get these apps if they want them, so taking them down won't do anything.
Sure do and they work very, very well - if a cop is using radar mine goes off at least 1/2 mile before I get to them and often times much more than that. You have to know how to use it and not just slam on your breaks every time it goes off but they do work and they work very well if the cops are using radar. If they are using laser you're probably screwed but that's where being a smart driver comes into play.
Of course the detectors are illegal in many states and in the ones where they aren't illegal, if you still manage to get pulled for speeding, when the cop sees it you will probably lose any sense of leeway he had for you
# Illegal in all vehicles: Virginia, Washington D.C., U.S. military bases
# Illegal in commercial vehicles under state law: Illinois, New York, New Jersey (specifically, commercial vehicles over 10,000 pounds (4,500 kg) and all vehicles over 18,000 pounds (8,200 kg)) Also illegal in all commercial vehicles over 10000 lbs under US federal law
# Prohibitions against affixing items to windshield - "obstructing vision"): Minnesota, California
Oh, stop. As another member noted, DUI checkpoints must be publicized by law in most states...in advance. No one is advocating drunk driving. There is a difference between that and having two light beers and getting a technical DUI. That's what this app is for. I would totally use it. I NEVER drive drunk, but I will have maybe two beers with dinner and then drive an hour later. There is nothing wrong with that. But local BAC limits are sometimes as low as .02-.08 percent. That's half a beer for some people. The issue is that in order to prevent actual drunk driving, we've gone way too far. Frankly. I think random checkpoints are borderline unconstitutional anyway. It's search without probably cause in many cases.
Best solution here is to make the app makers include popups telling people not to drive drunk. People will get these apps if they want them, so taking them down won't do anything.
Driving with any level of blood alchohol is dangerous. A very low level won't impair you by much, but it may just be enough that you can't get out of an accident that you might have had you been completely sober.
The only acceptable way to use this app is for sober people to avoid the long lines that inevitably build up behind the check point.
Give it a rest you arm chair historical hack. Our founding fathers loved to tie on a good one and would be appalled at the suppressive and totally ridiculous limits on blood alcohol limits that are in place today. It is an emotional issue that has gone awry. Yes there should be limits, but it is a joke how low they are now set, and there are those that are pushing for even lower standards. It is time to stand up and say "enough"!
The insult was unnecessary and unfounded.
There were no cars when your 'founding fathers' wrote the Bill of Rights. Getting hammered meant you stumbled home. It didn't mean you drove a lethal weapon home.
The limits on alcohol etc. in the US is a separate matter. Where the limits should be and how those exceeding those limits and driving should be punished are separate issues.
Not all criticism or corrections are patronizing and based on the phrasing his comment was not patronizing. (BTW, the correct way to spell patronizing is with a ?z? unless you?re a limey bastard. )
Haha I am indeed a limey bastard!!!
Maybe you guys changed the spelling when you changed the meaning of the word and followed an outlaw I tease, of course
But local BAC limits are sometimes as low as .02-.08 percent. That's half a beer for some people. The issue is that in order to prevent actual drunk driving, we've gone way too far. Frankly. I think random checkpoints are borderline unconstitutional anyway. It's search without probably cause in many cases.
180 lb man takes 4 drinks to get to .08. 120 lb woman takes 2.
Yes a 120 lb woman could get to .02 BAC with half a beer in a 1 hr timeframe. All states have a .08 BAC mark as the hard "You're drunk and under arrest point". Some states have pretty harsh aspects to their drunk driving policy. I went to traffic school recently for a speeding ticket and found out that here in Kentucky, if you are asleep in the backseat of your car sleeping off being drunk, you can (and people have) been jailed for drunk driving. Why? You still had your keys and could have woken up and driven home at any time prior to the alcohol all passing out of your system.
Luckily I don't drink anyway. Here is a link to the Kentucky statutes on DUI and the penalties. Some nasty stuff. http://transportation.ky.gov/drlic/dui/dui_laws.htm I don't know where you live that has a .02 BAC, but I would just say that if you know it's that low, either don't drink while you're out or learn the formulas for figuring BAC. Or keep that cab money handy.
Oh yeah and for our UK friends, blowing a .08 is also the definition of DUI
Some people think the whole concept of picking people at random out of traffic for testing, or blanket testing everyone, pushes the bounds of what police ought to be able to do, because strictly speaking they should have some reason to suspect you are breaking the law before interfering with your activities. So it's ok for them to park on the side of the road and watch for people driving wonky, but not ok to just stop everyone.
Legislators are incredibly responsive to what the electorate thinks they want (since they want to get reelected.) Which is why they do so many stupid things. A vocal, politically active, and ignorant but effective portion of the electorate think sobriety check points, "just say no" (to sex, drugs or whatever) "nuclear free" zones, subsidies for big business, low taxes but big budgets, climate denial, etc. etc. are effective policy/great ideas/smart laws, etc. It covers left, right, center?all the viewpoints. We are the government. And we are simultaneously both the problem and solution.
I like your sentiment, but you're wrong. In 2008 Congress passed the banker bail out bill. All senators and congressmen were called by millions of their constituents. It was reported that the calls were 1000 to 1 against it. They still passed it.
The Patriot Act decimated the real freedoms of privacy. Millions of people were against it. The ratio of for and against was close but most were against it, yet congress passed it. Even today after parts of it were renewed against the will of most of the citizenry it continues.
Government officials now operate with the attitude that they will continue to do illegal things and go against the constitution until a judge in federal court tells them what they're doing is illegal. Even after that police agencies refuse to obey the laws.
It is illegal for any government organization to maintain a database of gun owners yet the BATF continues to store the names of people buying guns after their background checks.
There must be some huge secret agency that hypnotizes government employees in law enforcement. When they are hired their sense of right and wrong is removed and replaced with the mantra that government can do no wrong and that the government only does things for the people even if the people don't see it that way.
Of course the detectors are illegal in many states and in the ones where they aren't illegal, if you still manage to get pulled for speeding, when the cop sees it you will probably lose any sense of leeway he had for you
# Illegal in all vehicles: Virginia, Washington D.C., U.S. military bases
# Illegal in commercial vehicles under state law: Illinois, New York, New Jersey (specifically, commercial vehicles over 10,000 pounds (4,500 kg) and all vehicles over 18,000 pounds (8,200 kg)) Also illegal in all commercial vehicles over 10000 lbs under US federal law
# Prohibitions against affixing items to windshield - "obstructing vision"): Minnesota, California
So they aren't illegal in "many" states - they are illegal in 2 and military bases. Most people here don't drive commercial vehicles and they sell mounts that sit on your dash instead of your windshield if you're in MN or CA.
Also, if you get pulled over take it off your windshield on your way over to the curb - it's really not that hard.
And, as another poster pointed out, radar detectors actually help decrease speeders and, if everyone had them, we wouldn't have to deal with that moron that slams on their brakes the second they see a cop and causes a rear-end collision.
Again, if it was actually about safety and not just a money grab they would institute minimum speed limits actually close to the actual speed limit. Most wrecks aren't caused by people speeding - they are caused by people going different speeds and/or being stupid and not checking their mirrors etc. Truth be told when a cop pulls someone over for speeding on a major highway at any point during a heavy traffic time the chances of wrecks increases dramatically because people always slam on their breaks so that second you take to check your blind spot the person in front of you has slammed on their breaks and, boom, wreck even though you were doing exactly what you were supposed to be doing.
As an aside - drunk driving is much the fault of the bar as it is the patron IMO.
Yes a 120 lb woman could get to .02 BAC with half a beer in a 1 hr timeframe. All states have a .08 BAC mark as the hard "You're drunk and under arrest point". Some states have pretty harsh aspects to their drunk driving policy. I went to traffic school recently for a speeding ticket and found out that here in Kentucky, if you are asleep in the backseat of your car sleeping off being drunk, you can (and people have) been jailed for drunk driving. Why? You still had your keys and could have woken up and driven home at any time prior to the alcohol all passing out of your system.
Luckily I don't drink anyway. Here is a link to the Kentucky statutes on DUI and the penalties. Some nasty stuff. http://transportation.ky.gov/drlic/dui/dui_laws.htm I don't know where you live that has a .02 BAC, but I would just say that if you know it's that low, either don't drink while you're out or learn the formulas for figuring BAC. Or keep that cab money handy.
Oh yeah and for our UK friends, blowing a .08 is also the definition of DUI
That bit about getting arrested because you were sleeping in your car with the keys is the most egregious abuse of police power that exists. You're being a responsible citizen and not driving and you get arrested anyway. It's absolutely embarrassing that that law exists in so many states but anyone that fights it is going to have to deal with MADD protesters even though they are doing what they should be doing and NOT DRIVING.
I knew this one was going to cause all kind of discussion...
First which app are these senators talking about, I am not aware of DUI check point only app. I have not seen anyone specifically state which app it is. Now there is Trapster and it does have the ability for users to identify the location of police check points. These check points can be for any number of reasons not specifically DUI. I also believe these check points are not called DUI check points anymore, and this was done for legal reasons since they can also cite you for any number of things if you like.
I will not get into the whole save our kids from drunks discussion.
However, people have to decide at what points are you willing to stop giving up your rights. As it was pointed out, this app is not going anything illegal if it was the government would have shut them down a long time ago. The app is just facilitating communications of information which is allowed to be share. As it was also pointed out the police and local government are required in most stated to publish any special enforcement they plan to do. So if your issue is to save kids from drunks, then out law the news paper as well since I see the same information in my local paper.
So what is more important you, having your rights or making sure people do not do things you do not approve with. Is it this about you and your personal fears or keeping others from doing things you do not like.
BTW, England has outlawed these kinds of things which tells the public where the police are running enforcements, it is all about cash. If you are concern and you do not want people having communication technology, you can move to England and give it a try
There are probably an enormous amount of apps currently available or yet to be developed that are or will be offensive to someone.
Anytime we submit to the emotions of a few and the political theater of politicians we hurt ourselves and the nation in the process. Life is dangerous period. We export our violence and pretend to be mindful of human life.
You want to stop drunk driving do something constructive about it. Banning such an app is ridiculous as one only has to read about the locations in the local rag.
I enjoyed your comment but I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. This is about an app that helps people who want to drink and drive to avoid the police that we as citizens pay to do their jobs. We want the police arresting drunk drivers.
I think to make this about the far wider-reaching issue of government control is a stretch. We have to take these things on a case-by-case basis - with an eye to the future and bigger picture like you say - and not just react every time the government tries to do what it is ultimately there to do: protect its people and maintain law and order.
I thought so too at first, but this is where it starts. I am most confuzzeled by that these are all very liberal democrats coming down on the side of big brother censorship. Isn't that odd?
Potential murderers, otherwise known as drunk drivers, should not have any apps that aid them in their crimes. I believe that drunk drivers should be given the death penalty if their actions cause the death of somebody else.
What's next? An app for serial killers, to help them locate potential victims? How about an app for rapists while we're at it?\
What do you call FourSquare?
Be careful with your logic, it has holes and those holes can lead to some very unpleasant futures. Pre-emptive absolutism and zero tolerance lawmaking is a good way to get stuck with some very bad social policies. Once the policies are in place, they will be almost impossible to remove, despite widespread acknowledgement that they are flawed, and the acknowledgement will be because of some high profile stupid case based on a technicality combination nobody imagined when the original law was passed.
Once an app or book or document succumbs to peer pressured censorship, it becomes easier to emplace formal "safety"-driven censorship because the peer pressure proved successful. Once you have formal censorship, the radical element looking for it's next press event looks to make a law formalizing illegality of that something. Both sides, left and right are guilty of treating the citizens this way -- just look at the gun control and abortion issues. There is no monopoly on who owns the nanny-state position. Best to not let the camel leave it's nose under the tent flap in the first place.
I thought so too at first, but this is where it starts. I am most confuzzeled by that these are all very liberal democrats coming down on the side of big brother censorship. Isn't that odd?
Again, if it was actually about safety and not just a money grab they would institute minimum speed limits actually close to the actual speed limit. Most wrecks aren't caused by people speeding - they are caused by people going different speeds and/or being stupid and not checking their mirrors etc. Truth be told when a cop pulls someone over for speeding on a major highway at any point during a heavy traffic time the chances of wrecks increases dramatically because people always slam on their breaks so that second you take to check your blind spot the person in front of you has slammed on their breaks and, boom, wreck even though you were doing exactly what you were supposed to be doing.
As an aside - drunk driving is much the fault of the bar as it is the patron IMO.
This is what people do not realize, the easiest thing in the world for governments to do is catch someone going over the speed limit and claim it for safety and they make money at it. The hardest thing for them to do is catch bad or poor drivers who do far worse than anyone driving a little fast. Speeding and having an accident is a symptom not the cause, the cause is bad driving skills. It easy to prove someone was going fast hard to prove they are a bad driver, well not hard it just not cost effective.
Again if our government and the idiot we all tend to vote in were really interested in your safety they would go after poor drives, actually they would never allow a poor driver to be license and put any of us at risk. But they do not, they rather have all the bad drivers out on the road so they can fine them can collect more money.
If you do not believe me, just research the Autobahn and Germany's licensing process. It cost lots of $$$ to get a license and you have to prove you drive at Autobahn speeds and follow the laws of road. If you can not you are not allowed to drive. Also the Autobahn accident rate is lower then the US and most of that highway does not have speed limits so why don't they have higher accident rates.
As you are an Englishman, I can't figure out your context for this issue. Our legal systems and presumptions are very different despite the shared origin.
fwiw; It doesn't bother me that you chime in, proliferately, it just seems that you're not grasping some of the basic problems we have with the "nanny-state-ness" of the Senators proclamation.
Comments
See that's what it all comes down to.
We love to quote Benjamin Franklin and speak of the 1st Amendment as if it were written by gods. None of those signatories would have wanted to see civil rights used as an excuse to bend the law. We love to think we are blessed with some wider perspicacity that everyone else lacks and we are seeing 1984 in its infancy but the truth is this is stopping mindless, selfish morons from destroying real lives.
Sure it won't stop it on its own, sure the information is still available, but why present it to people in a nice neat package and let them abuse it?
This is a common sense request and I hope Apple grant it. I believe they will.
Give it a rest you arm chair historical hack. Our founding fathers loved to tie on a good one and would be appalled at the suppressive and totally ridiculous limits on blood alcohol limits that are in place today. It is an emotional issue that has gone awry. Yes there should be limits, but it is a joke how low they are now set, and there are those that are pushing for even lower standards. It is time to stand up and say "enough"!
Publicized or not, if the app didn?t encourage driving drunk, or make it easier to get away with it, it wouldn?t be functional.
That means it is helping to commit a crime that kills innocent people.
Are you certain someone you know won?t be the next person killed because this app encouraged them to save taxi fare?
(No, the app itself is not a sobriety test. That?s a nice sound bite, though
Oh, stop. As another member noted, DUI checkpoints must be publicized by law in most states...in advance. No one is advocating drunk driving. There is a difference between that and having two light beers and getting a technical DUI. That's what this app is for. I would totally use it. I NEVER drive drunk, but I will have maybe two beers with dinner and then drive an hour later. There is nothing wrong with that. But local BAC limits are sometimes as low as .02-.08 percent. That's half a beer for some people. The issue is that in order to prevent actual drunk driving, we've gone way too far. Frankly. I think random checkpoints are borderline unconstitutional anyway. It's search without probably cause in many cases.
Best solution here is to make the app makers include popups telling people not to drive drunk. People will get these apps if they want them, so taking them down won't do anything.
Sure do and they work very, very well - if a cop is using radar mine goes off at least 1/2 mile before I get to them and often times much more than that. You have to know how to use it and not just slam on your breaks every time it goes off but they do work and they work very well if the cops are using radar. If they are using laser you're probably screwed but that's where being a smart driver comes into play.
Of course the detectors are illegal in many states and in the ones where they aren't illegal, if you still manage to get pulled for speeding, when the cop sees it you will probably lose any sense of leeway he had for you
I was curious about specific legality here in the US, so here is what wikipedia says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_detector#Legality
# Illegal in all vehicles: Virginia, Washington D.C., U.S. military bases
# Illegal in commercial vehicles under state law: Illinois, New York, New Jersey (specifically, commercial vehicles over 10,000 pounds (4,500 kg) and all vehicles over 18,000 pounds (8,200 kg)) Also illegal in all commercial vehicles over 10000 lbs under US federal law
# Prohibitions against affixing items to windshield - "obstructing vision"): Minnesota, California
Oh, stop. As another member noted, DUI checkpoints must be publicized by law in most states...in advance. No one is advocating drunk driving. There is a difference between that and having two light beers and getting a technical DUI. That's what this app is for. I would totally use it. I NEVER drive drunk, but I will have maybe two beers with dinner and then drive an hour later. There is nothing wrong with that. But local BAC limits are sometimes as low as .02-.08 percent. That's half a beer for some people. The issue is that in order to prevent actual drunk driving, we've gone way too far. Frankly. I think random checkpoints are borderline unconstitutional anyway. It's search without probably cause in many cases.
Best solution here is to make the app makers include popups telling people not to drive drunk. People will get these apps if they want them, so taking them down won't do anything.
Driving with any level of blood alchohol is dangerous. A very low level won't impair you by much, but it may just be enough that you can't get out of an accident that you might have had you been completely sober.
The only acceptable way to use this app is for sober people to avoid the long lines that inevitably build up behind the check point.
Give it a rest you arm chair historical hack. Our founding fathers loved to tie on a good one and would be appalled at the suppressive and totally ridiculous limits on blood alcohol limits that are in place today. It is an emotional issue that has gone awry. Yes there should be limits, but it is a joke how low they are now set, and there are those that are pushing for even lower standards. It is time to stand up and say "enough"!
The insult was unnecessary and unfounded.
There were no cars when your 'founding fathers' wrote the Bill of Rights. Getting hammered meant you stumbled home. It didn't mean you drove a lethal weapon home.
The limits on alcohol etc. in the US is a separate matter. Where the limits should be and how those exceeding those limits and driving should be punished are separate issues.
Not all criticism or corrections are patronizing and based on the phrasing his comment was not patronizing. (BTW, the correct way to spell patronizing is with a ?z? unless you?re a limey bastard.
Haha I am indeed a limey bastard!!!
Maybe you guys changed the spelling when you changed the meaning of the word and followed an outlaw
But local BAC limits are sometimes as low as .02-.08 percent. That's half a beer for some people. The issue is that in order to prevent actual drunk driving, we've gone way too far. Frankly. I think random checkpoints are borderline unconstitutional anyway. It's search without probably cause in many cases.
180 lb man takes 4 drinks to get to .08. 120 lb woman takes 2.
http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org/#LinkURL
Yes a 120 lb woman could get to .02 BAC with half a beer in a 1 hr timeframe. All states have a .08 BAC mark as the hard "You're drunk and under arrest point". Some states have pretty harsh aspects to their drunk driving policy. I went to traffic school recently for a speeding ticket and found out that here in Kentucky, if you are asleep in the backseat of your car sleeping off being drunk, you can (and people have) been jailed for drunk driving. Why? You still had your keys and could have woken up and driven home at any time prior to the alcohol all passing out of your system.
Luckily I don't drink anyway. Here is a link to the Kentucky statutes on DUI and the penalties. Some nasty stuff. http://transportation.ky.gov/drlic/dui/dui_laws.htm I don't know where you live that has a .02 BAC, but I would just say that if you know it's that low, either don't drink while you're out or learn the formulas for figuring BAC. Or keep that cab money handy.
Oh yeah and for our UK friends, blowing a .08 is also the definition of DUI
The government, I would point out, is us.
Legislators are incredibly responsive to what the electorate thinks they want (since they want to get reelected.) Which is why they do so many stupid things. A vocal, politically active, and ignorant but effective portion of the electorate think sobriety check points, "just say no" (to sex, drugs or whatever) "nuclear free" zones, subsidies for big business, low taxes but big budgets, climate denial, etc. etc. are effective policy/great ideas/smart laws, etc. It covers left, right, center?all the viewpoints. We are the government. And we are simultaneously both the problem and solution.
I like your sentiment, but you're wrong. In 2008 Congress passed the banker bail out bill. All senators and congressmen were called by millions of their constituents. It was reported that the calls were 1000 to 1 against it. They still passed it.
The Patriot Act decimated the real freedoms of privacy. Millions of people were against it. The ratio of for and against was close but most were against it, yet congress passed it. Even today after parts of it were renewed against the will of most of the citizenry it continues.
Government officials now operate with the attitude that they will continue to do illegal things and go against the constitution until a judge in federal court tells them what they're doing is illegal. Even after that police agencies refuse to obey the laws.
It is illegal for any government organization to maintain a database of gun owners yet the BATF continues to store the names of people buying guns after their background checks.
There must be some huge secret agency that hypnotizes government employees in law enforcement. When they are hired their sense of right and wrong is removed and replaced with the mantra that government can do no wrong and that the government only does things for the people even if the people don't see it that way.
Of course the detectors are illegal in many states and in the ones where they aren't illegal, if you still manage to get pulled for speeding, when the cop sees it you will probably lose any sense of leeway he had for you
I was curious about specific legality here in the US, so here is what wikipedia says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_detector#Legality
# Illegal in all vehicles: Virginia, Washington D.C., U.S. military bases
# Illegal in commercial vehicles under state law: Illinois, New York, New Jersey (specifically, commercial vehicles over 10,000 pounds (4,500 kg) and all vehicles over 18,000 pounds (8,200 kg)) Also illegal in all commercial vehicles over 10000 lbs under US federal law
# Prohibitions against affixing items to windshield - "obstructing vision"): Minnesota, California
So they aren't illegal in "many" states - they are illegal in 2 and military bases. Most people here don't drive commercial vehicles and they sell mounts that sit on your dash instead of your windshield if you're in MN or CA.
Also, if you get pulled over take it off your windshield on your way over to the curb - it's really not that hard.
And, as another poster pointed out, radar detectors actually help decrease speeders and, if everyone had them, we wouldn't have to deal with that moron that slams on their brakes the second they see a cop and causes a rear-end collision.
Again, if it was actually about safety and not just a money grab they would institute minimum speed limits actually close to the actual speed limit. Most wrecks aren't caused by people speeding - they are caused by people going different speeds and/or being stupid and not checking their mirrors etc. Truth be told when a cop pulls someone over for speeding on a major highway at any point during a heavy traffic time the chances of wrecks increases dramatically because people always slam on their breaks so that second you take to check your blind spot the person in front of you has slammed on their breaks and, boom, wreck even though you were doing exactly what you were supposed to be doing.
As an aside - drunk driving is much the fault of the bar as it is the patron IMO.
Their time would be better spent trying to save the public money by making Government smaller.
Anyone who thinks "small government" is better, I invite you to come live in India for a year.
180 lb man takes 4 drinks to get to .08. 120 lb woman takes 2.
http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org/#LinkURL
Yes a 120 lb woman could get to .02 BAC with half a beer in a 1 hr timeframe. All states have a .08 BAC mark as the hard "You're drunk and under arrest point". Some states have pretty harsh aspects to their drunk driving policy. I went to traffic school recently for a speeding ticket and found out that here in Kentucky, if you are asleep in the backseat of your car sleeping off being drunk, you can (and people have) been jailed for drunk driving. Why? You still had your keys and could have woken up and driven home at any time prior to the alcohol all passing out of your system.
Luckily I don't drink anyway. Here is a link to the Kentucky statutes on DUI and the penalties. Some nasty stuff. http://transportation.ky.gov/drlic/dui/dui_laws.htm I don't know where you live that has a .02 BAC, but I would just say that if you know it's that low, either don't drink while you're out or learn the formulas for figuring BAC. Or keep that cab money handy.
Oh yeah and for our UK friends, blowing a .08 is also the definition of DUI
That bit about getting arrested because you were sleeping in your car with the keys is the most egregious abuse of police power that exists. You're being a responsible citizen and not driving and you get arrested anyway. It's absolutely embarrassing that that law exists in so many states but anyone that fights it is going to have to deal with MADD protesters even though they are doing what they should be doing and NOT DRIVING.
First which app are these senators talking about, I am not aware of DUI check point only app. I have not seen anyone specifically state which app it is. Now there is Trapster and it does have the ability for users to identify the location of police check points. These check points can be for any number of reasons not specifically DUI. I also believe these check points are not called DUI check points anymore, and this was done for legal reasons since they can also cite you for any number of things if you like.
I will not get into the whole save our kids from drunks discussion.
However, people have to decide at what points are you willing to stop giving up your rights. As it was pointed out, this app is not going anything illegal if it was the government would have shut them down a long time ago. The app is just facilitating communications of information which is allowed to be share. As it was also pointed out the police and local government are required in most stated to publish any special enforcement they plan to do. So if your issue is to save kids from drunks, then out law the news paper as well since I see the same information in my local paper.
So what is more important you, having your rights or making sure people do not do things you do not approve with. Is it this about you and your personal fears or keeping others from doing things you do not like.
BTW, England has outlawed these kinds of things which tells the public where the police are running enforcements, it is all about cash. If you are concern and you do not want people having communication technology, you can move to England and give it a try
Anytime we submit to the emotions of a few and the political theater of politicians we hurt ourselves and the nation in the process. Life is dangerous period. We export our violence and pretend to be mindful of human life.
You want to stop drunk driving do something constructive about it. Banning such an app is ridiculous as one only has to read about the locations in the local rag.
I enjoyed your comment but I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. This is about an app that helps people who want to drink and drive to avoid the police that we as citizens pay to do their jobs. We want the police arresting drunk drivers.
I think to make this about the far wider-reaching issue of government control is a stretch. We have to take these things on a case-by-case basis - with an eye to the future and bigger picture like you say - and not just react every time the government tries to do what it is ultimately there to do: protect its people and maintain law and order.
I thought so too at first, but this is where it starts. I am most confuzzeled by that these are all very liberal democrats coming down on the side of big brother censorship. Isn't that odd?
Potential murderers, otherwise known as drunk drivers, should not have any apps that aid them in their crimes. I believe that drunk drivers should be given the death penalty if their actions cause the death of somebody else.
What's next? An app for serial killers, to help them locate potential victims? How about an app for rapists while we're at it?
What do you call FourSquare?
Be careful with your logic, it has holes and those holes can lead to some very unpleasant futures. Pre-emptive absolutism and zero tolerance lawmaking is a good way to get stuck with some very bad social policies. Once the policies are in place, they will be almost impossible to remove, despite widespread acknowledgement that they are flawed, and the acknowledgement will be because of some high profile stupid case based on a technicality combination nobody imagined when the original law was passed.
Once an app or book or document succumbs to peer pressured censorship, it becomes easier to emplace formal "safety"-driven censorship because the peer pressure proved successful. Once you have formal censorship, the radical element looking for it's next press event looks to make a law formalizing illegality of that something. Both sides, left and right are guilty of treating the citizens this way -- just look at the gun control and abortion issues. There is no monopoly on who owns the nanny-state position. Best to not let the camel leave it's nose under the tent flap in the first place.
I thought so too at first, but this is where it starts. I am most confuzzeled by that these are all very liberal democrats coming down on the side of big brother censorship. Isn't that odd?
Not at all. Read the last para above^^^^^
Again, if it was actually about safety and not just a money grab they would institute minimum speed limits actually close to the actual speed limit. Most wrecks aren't caused by people speeding - they are caused by people going different speeds and/or being stupid and not checking their mirrors etc. Truth be told when a cop pulls someone over for speeding on a major highway at any point during a heavy traffic time the chances of wrecks increases dramatically because people always slam on their breaks so that second you take to check your blind spot the person in front of you has slammed on their breaks and, boom, wreck even though you were doing exactly what you were supposed to be doing.
As an aside - drunk driving is much the fault of the bar as it is the patron IMO.
This is what people do not realize, the easiest thing in the world for governments to do is catch someone going over the speed limit and claim it for safety and they make money at it. The hardest thing for them to do is catch bad or poor drivers who do far worse than anyone driving a little fast. Speeding and having an accident is a symptom not the cause, the cause is bad driving skills. It easy to prove someone was going fast hard to prove they are a bad driver, well not hard it just not cost effective.
Again if our government and the idiot we all tend to vote in were really interested in your safety they would go after poor drives, actually they would never allow a poor driver to be license and put any of us at risk. But they do not, they rather have all the bad drivers out on the road so they can fine them can collect more money.
If you do not believe me, just research the Autobahn and Germany's licensing process. It cost lots of $$$ to get a license and you have to prove you drive at Autobahn speeds and follow the laws of road. If you can not you are not allowed to drive. Also the Autobahn accident rate is lower then the US and most of that highway does not have speed limits so why don't they have higher accident rates.
A great quote misused.
As you are an Englishman, I can't figure out your context for this issue. Our legal systems and presumptions are very different despite the shared origin.
fwiw; It doesn't bother me that you chime in, proliferately, it just seems that you're not grasping some of the basic problems we have with the "nanny-state-ness" of the Senators proclamation.