you may be right but that is only because there is so much crap the UK carriers are promoting at cheap prices,.. but when i ask people who i know if they would prefer an Iphone they all say yes,.. if they could afford one,..
The reason that android phones do ok in the UK is because of the price!!
Yep have to agree with this.
Last year both my daughters wanted/needed new phones on a contract as they were spending to much on PAYG. They would have loved the iPhone (having already used iPod Touches for a number of years) but I just couldn't justify the cost so we put them on a plan for £15 each per month and they got Xperia Mini's running Android free.
They are happy enough for now but they haven't spent a single penny in the Android store unlike the apps they purchase on the App Store for the Touches etc.
The aspiration amongst all their friends is for the iPhone.
Where did you read that Apple said they don't make much from the iPad?
MelGross (moderator) has made that amply clear in several replies to me the past few days. Apparently it costs more to make tablets than it does for comparable full-fledged notebooks.
This seems about right. You have to consider what the potential market would be.
For years it was: "Apple must make a tablet or they're DOOOOOMED!!!!" As soon as they did, the same people were screaming about how it couldn't run Final Cut Pro?"Epic Fail!!! LOLZZZ!!!"
Then when the iPad started selling like hotcakes, they had to start touting every sort-of similar contraption that came down the pike, even though they do the same kind of things the iPad does and they were already on record bitching about what a worthless device the iPad was.
Anybody who thinks that they are then going to run out and spend >$800 for something they've already ridiculed in advance needs to take a reality pill.
That's assuming they have any money to spend on it. The screamers aren't buyers?they're howler monkeys. The 100,000 units were probably sold to teenage boys (who got their parents to buy it for them, that is) who saw the commercials and said: "Cool! I wanna morph into a robot!" That market is probably saturated, and I don't think their parents are going to go for any of the fantabulous new tablets that are "coming soon"?not this year and probably not next year.
That line just cracks me up. Good ol' DED-style...
Seriously, the XOOM was destined for failure the moment it came out of the factory. What a shame that most will end up as door stops.
Regardless of how you feel about DED’s heavy pro-Apple slant you can’t help but love the effort he puts into his articles. That section heading is a clear example of that.
PS: When your product comes out of the factory needing to go back to the factory to finish being put together you know you have a problem,
MelGross (moderator) has made that amply clear in several replies to me the past few days. Apparently it costs more to make tablets than it does for comparable full-fledged notebooks.
You must have misinterpreted him. I know he is aware that Apple does not break out the profitability of different products, when it makes earnings announcements.
So a device that more than likely made Motorola $70 million in revenue in 42 days (minimum) is a flop?
Yes, the ipad sold more. Who gives a crap? You don't need to have iOS numbers to escape being called a "Flop."
Any analyst that predicted several million sales this year when all they knew of was a Verizon xoom and possibly a wifi model was stupid. Full Stop. Just like the "analysts" that predicted a FULL RETAIL phone, sold only online, one that required a data plan, would sell millions a quarter (aka N1 launch).
It's clear that Analysts don't understand the tech market. They've had to "significantly" adjust their figures for EVERY tech product launch in the past few years. Why are you listening to them again?
Much better commentary on this news story can be found here:
You must have misinterpreted him. I know he is aware that Apple does not break out the profitability of different products, when it makes earnings announcements.
I don't think I misunderstood him at all. This is his quote from yesterday:
"It actually costs more to build a tablet. Remember that those numbers you see about parts pricing is just a part of the costs. Notebook parts costs are even lower, that is, for the cheaper models. And Apple is taking lower margins on iPads to keep the pricing low, which it is. You can be sure that cheaper tablets will be just that, cheaper. Apple's real competitors are having a hard time just meeting Apple's prices. It's very likely that the only reason why the WiFi only Xoom meets Apple's price is because Motorola learned their lesson with the first model, and is taking little if no profit on its sales to keep the price down."
It's still better than the Slate, who announced they sold out, trouble was they only made 5k and sales were only 9k (and the diff would take up to 3 months to fulfill)
Oh... this isn't the end of this story. Soon we'll find out that only 20,000 (or less) were actually sold and that the rest are still sitting in the channel... more than likely the English Channel.
Moto's CEO will later say that sales have actually been quite smooth.
So a device that more than likely made Motorola $70 million in revenue in 42 days (minimum) is a flop?
"Made" != profit, so yes, that could be a total flop.
How many more are sitting on shelves, what are the margins... that $70 million revenue could be a anywhere from minimal revenue to a $250 million loss/write-off. In a global market, 100,000 units sold wouldn't remotely translate to (targeted) support by developers nor anything resembling long-term support by the manufacturer, so I assume the owners of these tablets are going to give a crap.
Not the sweet success I'd be crowing about if I were a Fandroid. At least the 7" Galaxy Tab has stopped Apple in its tracks. Wait, I mean, the 8.9 and 10.1" versions... no, I mean...
I don't think I misunderstood him at all. This is his quote from yesterday:
"It actually costs more to build a tablet. Remember that those numbers you see about parts pricing is just a part of the costs. Notebook parts costs are even lower, that is, for the cheaper models. And Apple is taking lower margins on iPads to keep the pricing low, which it is. You can be sure that cheaper tablets will be just that, cheaper. Apple's real competitors are having a hard time just meeting Apple's prices. It's very likely that the only reason why the WiFi only Xoom meets Apple's price is because Motorola learned their lesson with the first model, and is taking little if no profit on its sales to keep the price down."
I know we all keep reading that Apple's doesn't make much from the iPad, but other than "Apple says" there's really no evidence of that is there? I'm still of the belief there's ample profit in tablets. To believe otherwise would mean Apple's subscribed to the Google model of give away the product to make money on the ads/apps. I can't imagine Apple thinking Google has the right idea.
It doesn't have to be one or the other, it's more likely somewhere in the middle. Apple has traditionally worked on a margin of about 30% so there was plenty of room to drop that figure but still make a decent margin. Remember Tim Cook's comments on a conference call a couple of years ago when he warned (I'm paraphrasing) that 'margins would be reduced on some products'?
I've said it here before, but Apple are brilliant strategists and they have executed the iPad exercise brilliantly. By launching at the price points they did they knocked out the only possible route of immediate competition - undercutting them. They are making sure that their first mover advantage solidifies into dominance as the market matures while their competitors scramble round in the dust. There are some very very clever people running that company.
I don't think I misunderstood him at all. This is his quote from yesterday:
"It actually costs more to build a tablet. Remember that those numbers you see about parts pricing is just a part of the costs. Notebook parts costs are even lower, that is, for the cheaper models. And Apple is taking lower margins on iPads to keep the pricing low, which it is. You can be sure that cheaper tablets will be just that, cheaper. Apple's real competitors are having a hard time just meeting Apple's prices. It's very likely that the only reason why the WiFi only Xoom meets Apple's price is because Motorola learned their lesson with the first model, and is taking little if no profit on its sales to keep the price down."
I'm sure Mel knows more about Apple and it's plans than most of us.
Lower margins for apple are still high margins compared to everyone else. Handset makrers make INSANE markups on phones. They won't be able to do the same with Tablets, but they still will mark it up quite a bit, more than most other companies could get away with. They're not hurting at all by selling the ipad at the margin they are.
"Made" != profit, so yes, that could be a total flop.
How many more are sitting on shelves, what are the margins... that $70 million revenue could be a anywhere from minimal revenue to a $250 million loss/write-off. In a global market, 100,000 units sold wouldn't remotely translate to (targeted) support by developers nor anything resembling long-term support by the manufacturer, so I assume the owners of these tablets are going to give a crap.
Not the sweet success I'd be crowing about if I were a Fandroid. At least the 7" Galaxy Tab has stopped Apple in its tracks. Wait, I mean, the 8.9 and 10.1" versions... no, I mean...
We're not talking profit here. We had no idea what the profit will be, and won't find out until motorola reports their numbers. This firm got their numbers by ESTIMATING off of a graph.
The fact that ANYONE expected this to sell anywhere near as well as the ipad did is laughable. Motorola didn't. Verizon sure as hell didn't. Only analysts that have been wrong with EVERY SINGLE TECH PREDICTION in the last few years and the most rabid of android fans did.
100,000 units of an $600 (on contract) or $800 (no contract) device is a HUGE amount, especially when you're talking that it's ONLY available on one carrier, the wifi model is less than 10 days old and it ISNT EVEN AVAILABLE internationally yet. So what the numbers mean on a "international level" is pointless considering it isn't available there yet.
But then, I wouldn't expect you to understand that. You're most likely someone who considers DED's articles informative and relevant.
Oh... this isn't the end of this story. Soon we'll find out that only 20,000 (or less) were actually sold and that the rest are still sitting in the channel... more than likely the English Channel.
Moto's CEO will later say that sales have actually been quite smooth.
The 100k number was based off of an ESTIMATION based on a graph posted by Google on Android OS adoption. The only way to have a registered device there is if the device is active and connected with a gmail account at the time the survey was taken.
Comments
Yeah, that was a good line.
(tips hat) Credit where credit is due.
you may be right but that is only because there is so much crap the UK carriers are promoting at cheap prices,.. but when i ask people who i know if they would prefer an Iphone they all say yes,.. if they could afford one,..
The reason that android phones do ok in the UK is because of the price!!
Yep have to agree with this.
Last year both my daughters wanted/needed new phones on a contract as they were spending to much on PAYG. They would have loved the iPhone (having already used iPod Touches for a number of years) but I just couldn't justify the cost so we put them on a plan for £15 each per month and they got Xperia Mini's running Android free.
They are happy enough for now but they haven't spent a single penny in the Android store unlike the apps they purchase on the App Store for the Touches etc.
The aspiration amongst all their friends is for the iPhone.
Where did you read that Apple said they don't make much from the iPad?
MelGross (moderator) has made that amply clear in several replies to me the past few days. Apparently it costs more to make tablets than it does for comparable full-fledged notebooks.
For years it was: "Apple must make a tablet or they're DOOOOOMED!!!!" As soon as they did, the same people were screaming about how it couldn't run Final Cut Pro?"Epic Fail!!! LOLZZZ!!!"
Then when the iPad started selling like hotcakes, they had to start touting every sort-of similar contraption that came down the pike, even though they do the same kind of things the iPad does and they were already on record bitching about what a worthless device the iPad was.
Anybody who thinks that they are then going to run out and spend >$800 for something they've already ridiculed in advance needs to take a reality pill.
That's assuming they have any money to spend on it. The screamers aren't buyers?they're howler monkeys. The 100,000 units were probably sold to teenage boys (who got their parents to buy it for them, that is) who saw the commercials and said: "Cool! I wanna morph into a robot!" That market is probably saturated, and I don't think their parents are going to go for any of the fantabulous new tablets that are "coming soon"?not this year and probably not next year.
That line just cracks me up. Good ol' DED-style...
Seriously, the XOOM was destined for failure the moment it came out of the factory. What a shame that most will end up as door stops.
Regardless of how you feel about DED’s heavy pro-Apple slant you can’t help but love the effort he puts into his articles. That section heading is a clear example of that.
PS: When your product comes out of the factory needing to go back to the factory to finish being put together you know you have a problem,
MelGross (moderator) has made that amply clear in several replies to me the past few days. Apparently it costs more to make tablets than it does for comparable full-fledged notebooks.
You must have misinterpreted him. I know he is aware that Apple does not break out the profitability of different products, when it makes earnings announcements.
Yes, the ipad sold more. Who gives a crap? You don't need to have iOS numbers to escape being called a "Flop."
Any analyst that predicted several million sales this year when all they knew of was a Verizon xoom and possibly a wifi model was stupid. Full Stop. Just like the "analysts" that predicted a FULL RETAIL phone, sold only online, one that required a data plan, would sell millions a quarter (aka N1 launch).
It's clear that Analysts don't understand the tech market. They've had to "significantly" adjust their figures for EVERY tech product launch in the past few years. Why are you listening to them again?
Much better commentary on this news story can be found here:
http://www.bgr.com/2011/04/06/the-mo...nius+Report%29
Would you call those numbers "Zunish"?
Looks like Moto pulled a Ballmer. Well, at least Android 3.0 is Open. . . . Hahahahaha!
XOOM! Thanks, I'll be here all week, folks!
You must have misinterpreted him. I know he is aware that Apple does not break out the profitability of different products, when it makes earnings announcements.
I don't think I misunderstood him at all. This is his quote from yesterday:
"It actually costs more to build a tablet. Remember that those numbers you see about parts pricing is just a part of the costs. Notebook parts costs are even lower, that is, for the cheaper models. And Apple is taking lower margins on iPads to keep the pricing low, which it is. You can be sure that cheaper tablets will be just that, cheaper. Apple's real competitors are having a hard time just meeting Apple's prices. It's very likely that the only reason why the WiFi only Xoom meets Apple's price is because Motorola learned their lesson with the first model, and is taking little if no profit on its sales to keep the price down."
The entire thread where he makes this argument more than once is here: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...hreadid=121873
I'm sure Mel knows more about Apple and it's plans than most of us.
(tips hat) Credit where credit is due.
Don't encourage me too much. I might have to call out Steve Jobs for using the word
flummoxed.
It's still better than the Slate, who announced they sold out, trouble was they only made 5k and sales were only 9k (and the diff would take up to 3 months to fulfill)
Oh... this isn't the end of this story. Soon we'll find out that only 20,000 (or less) were actually sold and that the rest are still sitting in the channel... more than likely the English Channel.
Moto's CEO will later say that sales have actually been quite smooth.
So a device that more than likely made Motorola $70 million in revenue in 42 days (minimum) is a flop?
"Made" != profit, so yes, that could be a total flop.
How many more are sitting on shelves, what are the margins... that $70 million revenue could be a anywhere from minimal revenue to a $250 million loss/write-off. In a global market, 100,000 units sold wouldn't remotely translate to (targeted) support by developers nor anything resembling long-term support by the manufacturer, so I assume the owners of these tablets are going to give a crap.
Not the sweet success I'd be crowing about if I were a Fandroid. At least the 7" Galaxy Tab has stopped Apple in its tracks. Wait, I mean, the 8.9 and 10.1" versions... no, I mean...
I don't think I misunderstood him at all. This is his quote from yesterday:
"It actually costs more to build a tablet. Remember that those numbers you see about parts pricing is just a part of the costs. Notebook parts costs are even lower, that is, for the cheaper models. And Apple is taking lower margins on iPads to keep the pricing low, which it is. You can be sure that cheaper tablets will be just that, cheaper. Apple's real competitors are having a hard time just meeting Apple's prices. It's very likely that the only reason why the WiFi only Xoom meets Apple's price is because Motorola learned their lesson with the first model, and is taking little if no profit on its sales to keep the price down."
The entire thread where he makes this argument more than once is here: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...hreadid=121873
I'm sure Mel knows more about Apple and it's plans than most of us.
This is just mel speculating. In your post, you said that it was Apple claiming that they don't make much from the iPad. Apple has said no such thing.
I know we all keep reading that Apple's doesn't make much from the iPad, but other than "Apple says" there's really no evidence of that is there? I'm still of the belief there's ample profit in tablets. To believe otherwise would mean Apple's subscribed to the Google model of give away the product to make money on the ads/apps. I can't imagine Apple thinking Google has the right idea.
It doesn't have to be one or the other, it's more likely somewhere in the middle. Apple has traditionally worked on a margin of about 30% so there was plenty of room to drop that figure but still make a decent margin. Remember Tim Cook's comments on a conference call a couple of years ago when he warned (I'm paraphrasing) that 'margins would be reduced on some products'?
I've said it here before, but Apple are brilliant strategists and they have executed the iPad exercise brilliantly. By launching at the price points they did they knocked out the only possible route of immediate competition - undercutting them. They are making sure that their first mover advantage solidifies into dominance as the market matures while their competitors scramble round in the dust. There are some very very clever people running that company.
I don't think I misunderstood him at all. This is his quote from yesterday:
"It actually costs more to build a tablet. Remember that those numbers you see about parts pricing is just a part of the costs. Notebook parts costs are even lower, that is, for the cheaper models. And Apple is taking lower margins on iPads to keep the pricing low, which it is. You can be sure that cheaper tablets will be just that, cheaper. Apple's real competitors are having a hard time just meeting Apple's prices. It's very likely that the only reason why the WiFi only Xoom meets Apple's price is because Motorola learned their lesson with the first model, and is taking little if no profit on its sales to keep the price down."
The entire thread where he makes this argument more than once is here: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...hreadid=121873
I'm sure Mel knows more about Apple and it's plans than most of us.
Lower margins for apple are still high margins compared to everyone else. Handset makrers make INSANE markups on phones. They won't be able to do the same with Tablets, but they still will mark it up quite a bit, more than most other companies could get away with. They're not hurting at all by selling the ipad at the margin they are.
This is just mel speculating. In your post, you said that it was Apple claiming that they don't make much from the iPad. Apple has said no such thing.
My apology then for that part of the post. I took Mel's comments to be based on official Apple statements rather than an opinion.
My apology then for that part of the post. I took Mel's comments to be based on official Apple statements rather than an opinion.
No problem. Just wanted to clear it up.
"Made" != profit, so yes, that could be a total flop.
How many more are sitting on shelves, what are the margins... that $70 million revenue could be a anywhere from minimal revenue to a $250 million loss/write-off. In a global market, 100,000 units sold wouldn't remotely translate to (targeted) support by developers nor anything resembling long-term support by the manufacturer, so I assume the owners of these tablets are going to give a crap.
Not the sweet success I'd be crowing about if I were a Fandroid. At least the 7" Galaxy Tab has stopped Apple in its tracks. Wait, I mean, the 8.9 and 10.1" versions... no, I mean...
We're not talking profit here. We had no idea what the profit will be, and won't find out until motorola reports their numbers. This firm got their numbers by ESTIMATING off of a graph.
The fact that ANYONE expected this to sell anywhere near as well as the ipad did is laughable. Motorola didn't. Verizon sure as hell didn't. Only analysts that have been wrong with EVERY SINGLE TECH PREDICTION in the last few years and the most rabid of android fans did.
100,000 units of an $600 (on contract) or $800 (no contract) device is a HUGE amount, especially when you're talking that it's ONLY available on one carrier, the wifi model is less than 10 days old and it ISNT EVEN AVAILABLE internationally yet. So what the numbers mean on a "international level" is pointless considering it isn't available there yet.
But then, I wouldn't expect you to understand that. You're most likely someone who considers DED's articles informative and relevant.
Oh... this isn't the end of this story. Soon we'll find out that only 20,000 (or less) were actually sold and that the rest are still sitting in the channel... more than likely the English Channel.
Moto's CEO will later say that sales have actually been quite smooth.
The 100k number was based off of an ESTIMATION based on a graph posted by Google on Android OS adoption. The only way to have a registered device there is if the device is active and connected with a gmail account at the time the survey was taken.