what is misleading about this is what you don't see and that is Android as an OS means nothing by being on 49% of the smart phones. It is free. It piggybacks on massively produced hardware.
People wake up and smell the coffee!!!
What has been done was to lump all of Google's OEM's market share up like Moto and HTC and put the total under one headline:ANDROID. That may sound impressive but the tell of the tape is that the balance sheets of the OEMS are not on Google's CFO's desk.
For the Android OEMS this is nothing but a race to produce as may different iterations of an Android smart phone, advertise it and cash in as quickly as possible.
There are arguments against this report but that is not a good one. They are comparing phone platform to phone platform.
Whatever....I guess Mercedes lost the market share war to Toyota too. Yeah right! Do you really think Mercedes ever tried to beat Toyota in sales? Do you think any Toyota owner wouldn't rather have a Mercedes?
Mercedes is tenfold expensive than a Toyota, but some Android phones are more expensive than even the iPhone 4. So, your analogy is invalid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
He just doesn't care about anything except the GPS, txt and making phone calls.
You just said that! Android has a much better navigation app compared to the iPhone.
If Apple isn't involved in that "fight", why does Jobs insist on mentioning Android in keynotes and fiscal reports? When Jobs started ranting about "twitterdeck" and using misquotes from Samsung to bolster up his keynotes, that shows us that the "fight" is very much on and that he feels the need to bash the competition.
The fight is on alright, i wouldnt put much credence in these reports though, they are apparantly based on buzz-words and extrapolation.
Here's a link to Gartner ( well about Gartner) in 2009 predicting 2012.
Symbian is at 37.5%. Android a mere 18%. Windows mobile ( not WP7) is hanging in there at 9% just 4% behind iOS, Maemo is banging around at 4.5% - pretty good considering it is not now anywhere - RIM is at 13%, and Apple a mere 13.6%.
Awesome predictions which are no better - and probably far worse - that a 12th peasant picking the mobile share from the entrails of a dead bird he found on the street, or a 2 year old picking the 2012 market share from the patterns of his poop as he played with it. If these guys could be sued they would be out of business.
Meanwhile windows mobile is 0%, Symbian is dead, Maemo was never anything other than dead, and RIM is dropping year on year although it probably wont go to zero.
They did underestimate Android here, but the reason for underestimating Apple and promoting Symbian ( lol) is the same stupid reason they now go for Android. Open Source. Blah Blah Blah. Although with Nokia one manufacturer was not a problem, apparently it is with Apple.
If they could be sued they would be out of business.
What we know is that Apple are 28% in the US on one carrier ( and will probably be 40% on all) and 50% in Europe and steady, that they are going to aggressively target lower devices this year, and they are the choice of 50% of US teenageers, and 58% of Chinese customers - and once supply contraints are lifted they will go large.
We know this on AI as we read these reports, the guys in Gartner dont and have no reason to exist.
If they could be sued they would be out of business.
For devs the main thing is that iOS creates about 84% of all app revenues ( it did more when it had less of the market - compared to, um. symbian). And thats in a situation where Android has passed iOS.
Of course some marketing people will read this, and naive devs. If they do go for Android they will forgo most of the market. Which is good for me.
.I guess Mercedes lost the market share war to Toyota too. Yeah right! Do you really think Mercedes ever tried to beat Toyota in sales? Do you think any Toyota owner wouldn't rather have a Mercedes?
They did lose the market share war to Toyota. Dont change the subject.
Of course it is. If Apple made 10 different ones it might be different. Silly argument, but hold on tight to it.
But really, Apple isn't worried about their smartphone market share any longer. They already lost that fight, and are quite happy just sticking with their margins. If they lose device sales to Android or WM7 models, so be it. They've moved on to a more lucrative tablet market where there's much less in the way of competition.
Which manufacture sells more Android phones than Apple sells iPhones, Maybe you should hold on .
... Gartner sees Apple's iOS taking 19.4 percent share in 2011, and slipping to 18.9 percent total global smartphone operating system share in 2012. .... The research firm has forecast Microsoft to represent 19.5 percent of the market in 2015 ...
It's amazing that, even without considering what Apple has done to the mobile device Market over the last four years, Gartner can give estimates to 1/10 of a percent for market share in another four years and keep a straight face. I presume.
Analysts and car alarm makers - talk about easy money
As was clearly explained by Epic yesterday, and echoed by other major developers in the past, Android can not be developed on as a single platform.
in this report Android is one platform.
All the rest of the counter arguments - except for pointing out why Gartner are wrong ( again) - sound like desperation to me. I predict - and this is based on actual reports I have read - that iOs will be on 30-40% of phones by 2015. Android, fragmented or not, will be similar.
But really, Apple isn't worried about their smartphone market share any longer. They already lost that fight, and are quite happy just sticking with their margins
You got a link where somebody in Apple has said that?
Yeah, I think it's the same link where Apple says they have a current shortage of iPhones.
Lol, your parents weren't brother and sister now were they? I am not going to teach you how to google their last earnings report, because it would be probably be like trying to teach a pig algebra.
However, fuck it - lets play nice. To find out about this google Apple's earnings reports. no seriously, type those words in.
But since I like to sneer at morons, here you go, now to play with my smarter 2 year old nephew.
5:19 Tim, how comfortable are you with availability of iPhones and iPads? How quickly shortages addressed? TIM: On iPad, we increased dramatically last quarter. Got into supply-demand balance, expand to 46 countries, adding 20 during the quarter. Confident enough to add another 15 countries during the month of January. Feel very good about progress. Relative to iPhone 4, feel very good about what able to do, but it's not enough. We do still have significant backlog, working around the clock to build more. Not going to predict when supply and demand will meet.
Lol, your parents weren't brother and sister now were they? I am not going to teach you how to google their last earnings report, because it would be probably be like trying to teach a pig algebra.
However, fuck it - lets play nice. To find out about this google Apple's earnings reports. no seriously, type those words in.
And when was that earnings report? What period did the alleged comment cover? No shame is saying your comment was an opinion. Mine was.
All the rest of the counter arguments - except for pointing out why Gartner are wrong ( again) - sound like desperation to me. I predict - and this is based on actual reports I have read - that iOs will be on 30-40% of phones by 2015. Android, fragmented or not, will be similar.
Garter is wrong, it is not desperate, it is true. The only thing that is desperate is the people still trying to pretend Android is one platform. In 2010, "Android" had s Marketshare advantage, yet only managed 100 million in App sales, without Apple blocking all the good apps people want.
The App Store did 1.7 or 1.3 billion in sales, the difference is largely irrelevant given the gap. The ONLY thing platform market share impacts is developer Eco-system. Android is losing by at least a 13 to 1 margin. There is no point to discussing Android as a platform until Android actually is in fact a platform.
Edit: I misread your post a bit and see we largely agree. Yes if you continue to count Android as one platform, it will continue to have high market share. That market share is gimmick.
And when was that earnings report? What period did the alleged comment cover? No shame is saying your comment was an opinion. Mine was.
It is possible that they have, in fact, managed a supply demand balance this Q. However,my reading of the last report suggests the demand is increasing exponentially in China. Its best to assume that they haven't met supply this Q either. In most Quarters they dont - think about the release of the 3GS and the iPhone 4. They wont when the iPhone 5 comes out either.
I would have thought that Q1 2010/11 would have had no supply constraints ( coming months after the iP4 release), but clearly it did.
So my "comment" is based on the hard evidence we had, and the only and last hard evidence we have, of iPhone supply. I didnt supply a link, I mentioned the earnings report. You then asked for the link. I provided one.
Lets leave it at that. This is off topic anyway.
To get back to what Apple want. They want to beat Android. This is personal. Getting most of the profits is meaningless if your product is a minority platform, since it is a platform not a car and the long term viability ( and profits) depends on that platform.
Apple rarely crow about Gross Margins, they mention it in the earings report and invariably guide lower. Every time. ( I think they are training the market for lower margins in future). Steve Job, on the other hand, mentions all and every stats where APple are tops - music players, app store downloads, music downloads, tablets etc.
So to win they need to reduce prices, then gartner will, once again, prove to be as useful as a grave robber in a crematorium.
Lol, your parents weren't brother and sister now were they? I am not going to teach you how to google their last earnings report, because it would be probably be like trying to teach a pig algebra.
However, fuck it - lets play nice. To find out about this google Apple's earnings reports. no seriously, type those words in.
But since I like to sneer at morons, here you go, now to play with my smarter 2 year old nephew.
5:19 Tim, how comfortable are you with availability of iPhones and iPads? How quickly shortages addressed? TIM: On iPad, we increased dramatically last quarter. Got into supply-demand balance, expand to 46 countries, adding 20 during the quarter. Confident enough to add another 15 countries during the month of January. Feel very good about progress. Relative to iPhone 4, feel very good about what able to do, but it's not enough. We do still have significant backlog, working around the clock to build more. Not going to predict when supply and demand will meet.
So just to make sure I understand. About three months ago Apple said they hadn't yet balanced supply and demand (not the same as a shortage BTW). Geez, why didn't you say it was old news.
Apparently that problem must have been dealt with. Drop by or call your local Verizon store and ask for a couple of iPhones.
I'm surprised you guys are raising such a fuss over market share. Market share is important up to a point but you miss the major example that gives its full context.
Windows owns over 90% of the computer market. Apple owns less than 5%. What difference has that really made in the successfulness and profitability of the Macintosh?
Android is inevitably going to own a majority of the mobile phone market. If Nokia and Microsoft can get their act together they may be able to compete with Android. Apple will never own a majority of the mobile phone market. That really will have little bearing on the success and profitability of the iPhone.
Because OS marketshare determines whether you are cool or lame. If enough people buy the same phone OS as you, then you're cool and your shit doesn't stink. If everyone else is buying phones with the other phone OS, then you are lame and you a unworthy of having an opinion. (At least that's how trolls think)
I don't personally care. I bought the iPhone (original model) the day it came out. No lines because AT&T didn't offer subsidized pricing. No app store. No 3G. No jail breaks. 8GB max. Just pure Apple iPhone with a ZERO installed base. Why (if I'm not Apple) would I care what the marketshare will be in 2012?
So if Gartner is correct, and Apple sells 118 million iPhones in 2012, at an average price of $625 (from AI Jan,18th 2011) then it means that poor lil Apple will have $73.75BILLION in iPhone sales. This doesn't include iPad sales. Poor doomed APPLE.
So just to make sure I understand. About three months ago Apple said they hadn't yet balanced supply and demand (not the same as a shortage BTW). Geez, why didn't you say it was old news.
Apparently that problem must have been dealt with. Drop by or call your local Verizon store and ask for a couple of iPhones.
The shortage is largely manifest in China, which was also in that report and which I have also mentioned.
We get hard news about Apply's supply and demand when they release their figures, so we will next week. However - just to be clear once more. I provided the link. You are now scurrying for cover, but it aint gonna work - I supplied the link you asked for. Remedially.
Comments
what is misleading about this is what you don't see and that is Android as an OS means nothing by being on 49% of the smart phones. It is free. It piggybacks on massively produced hardware.
People wake up and smell the coffee!!!
What has been done was to lump all of Google's OEM's market share up like Moto and HTC and put the total under one headline:ANDROID. That may sound impressive but the tell of the tape is that the balance sheets of the OEMS are not on Google's CFO's desk.
For the Android OEMS this is nothing but a race to produce as may different iterations of an Android smart phone, advertise it and cash in as quickly as possible.
There are arguments against this report but that is not a good one. They are comparing phone platform to phone platform.
Whatever....I guess Mercedes lost the market share war to Toyota too. Yeah right! Do you really think Mercedes ever tried to beat Toyota in sales? Do you think any Toyota owner wouldn't rather have a Mercedes?
Mercedes is tenfold expensive than a Toyota, but some Android phones are more expensive than even the iPhone 4. So, your analogy is invalid.
He just doesn't care about anything except the GPS, txt and making phone calls.
You just said that! Android has a much better navigation app compared to the iPhone.
If Apple isn't involved in that "fight", why does Jobs insist on mentioning Android in keynotes and fiscal reports? When Jobs started ranting about "twitterdeck" and using misquotes from Samsung to bolster up his keynotes, that shows us that the "fight" is very much on and that he feels the need to bash the competition.
The fight is on alright, i wouldnt put much credence in these reports though, they are apparantly based on buzz-words and extrapolation.
Here's a link to Gartner ( well about Gartner) in 2009 predicting 2012.
Symbian is at 37.5%. Android a mere 18%. Windows mobile ( not WP7) is hanging in there at 9% just 4% behind iOS, Maemo is banging around at 4.5% - pretty good considering it is not now anywhere - RIM is at 13%, and Apple a mere 13.6%.
Awesome predictions which are no better - and probably far worse - that a 12th peasant picking the mobile share from the entrails of a dead bird he found on the street, or a 2 year old picking the 2012 market share from the patterns of his poop as he played with it. If these guys could be sued they would be out of business.
Meanwhile windows mobile is 0%, Symbian is dead, Maemo was never anything other than dead, and RIM is dropping year on year although it probably wont go to zero.
They did underestimate Android here, but the reason for underestimating Apple and promoting Symbian ( lol) is the same stupid reason they now go for Android. Open Source. Blah Blah Blah. Although with Nokia one manufacturer was not a problem, apparently it is with Apple.
If they could be sued they would be out of business.
What we know is that Apple are 28% in the US on one carrier ( and will probably be 40% on all) and 50% in Europe and steady, that they are going to aggressively target lower devices this year, and they are the choice of 50% of US teenageers, and 58% of Chinese customers - and once supply contraints are lifted they will go large.
We know this on AI as we read these reports, the guys in Gartner dont and have no reason to exist.
If they could be sued they would be out of business.
For devs the main thing is that iOS creates about 84% of all app revenues ( it did more when it had less of the market - compared to, um. symbian). And thats in a situation where Android has passed iOS.
Of course some marketing people will read this, and naive devs. If they do go for Android they will forgo most of the market. Which is good for me.
.I guess Mercedes lost the market share war to Toyota too. Yeah right! Do you really think Mercedes ever tried to beat Toyota in sales? Do you think any Toyota owner wouldn't rather have a Mercedes?
They did lose the market share war to Toyota. Dont change the subject.
Of course it is. If Apple made 10 different ones it might be different. Silly argument, but hold on tight to it.
But really, Apple isn't worried about their smartphone market share any longer. They already lost that fight, and are quite happy just sticking with their margins. If they lose device sales to Android or WM7 models, so be it. They've moved on to a more lucrative tablet market where there's much less in the way of competition.
Which manufacture sells more Android phones than Apple sells iPhones, Maybe you should hold on
and once supply contraints are lifted they will go large.
Where did you read there was a shortage of iPhones?
There are arguments against this report but that is not a good one. They are comparing phone platform to phone platform.
As was clearly explained by Epic yesterday, and echoed by other major developers in the past, Android can not be developed on as a single platform.
Where did you read there was a shortage of iPhones?
Era I pick this stuff up randomly. I make shit up.
Also they said it in their last earnings report.
... Gartner sees Apple's iOS taking 19.4 percent share in 2011, and slipping to 18.9 percent total global smartphone operating system share in 2012. .... The research firm has forecast Microsoft to represent 19.5 percent of the market in 2015 ...
It's amazing that, even without considering what Apple has done to the mobile device Market over the last four years, Gartner can give estimates to 1/10 of a percent for market share in another four years and keep a straight face. I presume.
Analysts and car alarm makers - talk about easy money
As was clearly explained by Epic yesterday, and echoed by other major developers in the past, Android can not be developed on as a single platform.
in this report Android is one platform.
All the rest of the counter arguments - except for pointing out why Gartner are wrong ( again) - sound like desperation to me. I predict - and this is based on actual reports I have read - that iOs will be on 30-40% of phones by 2015. Android, fragmented or not, will be similar.
But really, Apple isn't worried about their smartphone market share any longer. They already lost that fight, and are quite happy just sticking with their margins
You got a link where somebody in Apple has said that?
You got a link where somebody in Apple has said that?
Yeah, I think it's the same link where Apple says they have a current shortage of iPhones.
Yeah, I think it's the same link where Apple says they have a current shortage of iPhones.
Lol, your parents weren't brother and sister now were they? I am not going to teach you how to google their last earnings report, because it would be probably be like trying to teach a pig algebra.
However, fuck it - lets play nice. To find out about this google Apple's earnings reports. no seriously, type those words in.
But since I like to sneer at morons, here you go, now to play with my smarter 2 year old nephew.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...#ixzz1IshVNkev
5:19 Tim, how comfortable are you with availability of iPhones and iPads? How quickly shortages addressed? TIM: On iPad, we increased dramatically last quarter. Got into supply-demand balance, expand to 46 countries, adding 20 during the quarter. Confident enough to add another 15 countries during the month of January. Feel very good about progress. Relative to iPhone 4, feel very good about what able to do, but it's not enough. We do still have significant backlog, working around the clock to build more. Not going to predict when supply and demand will meet.
Lol, your parents weren't brother and sister now were they? I am not going to teach you how to google their last earnings report, because it would be probably be like trying to teach a pig algebra.
However, fuck it - lets play nice. To find out about this google Apple's earnings reports. no seriously, type those words in.
And when was that earnings report? What period did the alleged comment cover? No shame is saying your comment was an opinion. Mine was.
in this report Android is one platform.
All the rest of the counter arguments - except for pointing out why Gartner are wrong ( again) - sound like desperation to me. I predict - and this is based on actual reports I have read - that iOs will be on 30-40% of phones by 2015. Android, fragmented or not, will be similar.
Garter is wrong, it is not desperate, it is true. The only thing that is desperate is the people still trying to pretend Android is one platform. In 2010, "Android" had s Marketshare advantage, yet only managed 100 million in App sales, without Apple blocking all the good apps people want.
The App Store did 1.7 or 1.3 billion in sales, the difference is largely irrelevant given the gap. The ONLY thing platform market share impacts is developer Eco-system. Android is losing by at least a 13 to 1 margin. There is no point to discussing Android as a platform until Android actually is in fact a platform.
Edit: I misread your post a bit and see we largely agree. Yes if you continue to count Android as one platform, it will continue to have high market share. That market share is gimmick.
And when was that earnings report? What period did the alleged comment cover? No shame is saying your comment was an opinion. Mine was.
It is possible that they have, in fact, managed a supply demand balance this Q. However,my reading of the last report suggests the demand is increasing exponentially in China. Its best to assume that they haven't met supply this Q either. In most Quarters they dont - think about the release of the 3GS and the iPhone 4. They wont when the iPhone 5 comes out either.
I would have thought that Q1 2010/11 would have had no supply constraints ( coming months after the iP4 release), but clearly it did.
So my "comment" is based on the hard evidence we had, and the only and last hard evidence we have, of iPhone supply. I didnt supply a link, I mentioned the earnings report. You then asked for the link. I provided one.
Lets leave it at that. This is off topic anyway.
To get back to what Apple want. They want to beat Android. This is personal. Getting most of the profits is meaningless if your product is a minority platform, since it is a platform not a car and the long term viability ( and profits) depends on that platform.
Apple rarely crow about Gross Margins, they mention it in the earings report and invariably guide lower. Every time. ( I think they are training the market for lower margins in future). Steve Job, on the other hand, mentions all and every stats where APple are tops - music players, app store downloads, music downloads, tablets etc.
So to win they need to reduce prices, then gartner will, once again, prove to be as useful as a grave robber in a crematorium.
Lol, your parents weren't brother and sister now were they? I am not going to teach you how to google their last earnings report, because it would be probably be like trying to teach a pig algebra.
However, fuck it - lets play nice. To find out about this google Apple's earnings reports. no seriously, type those words in.
But since I like to sneer at morons, here you go, now to play with my smarter 2 year old nephew.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...#ixzz1IshVNkev
5:19 Tim, how comfortable are you with availability of iPhones and iPads? How quickly shortages addressed? TIM: On iPad, we increased dramatically last quarter. Got into supply-demand balance, expand to 46 countries, adding 20 during the quarter. Confident enough to add another 15 countries during the month of January. Feel very good about progress. Relative to iPhone 4, feel very good about what able to do, but it's not enough. We do still have significant backlog, working around the clock to build more. Not going to predict when supply and demand will meet.
So just to make sure I understand. About three months ago Apple said they hadn't yet balanced supply and demand (not the same as a shortage BTW). Geez, why didn't you say it was old news.
Apparently that problem must have been dealt with. Drop by or call your local Verizon store and ask for a couple of iPhones.
I'm surprised you guys are raising such a fuss over market share. Market share is important up to a point but you miss the major example that gives its full context.
Windows owns over 90% of the computer market. Apple owns less than 5%. What difference has that really made in the successfulness and profitability of the Macintosh?
Android is inevitably going to own a majority of the mobile phone market. If Nokia and Microsoft can get their act together they may be able to compete with Android. Apple will never own a majority of the mobile phone market. That really will have little bearing on the success and profitability of the iPhone.
Because OS marketshare determines whether you are cool or lame. If enough people buy the same phone OS as you, then you're cool and your shit doesn't stink. If everyone else is buying phones with the other phone OS, then you are lame and you a unworthy of having an opinion. (At least that's how trolls think)
I don't personally care. I bought the iPhone (original model) the day it came out. No lines because AT&T didn't offer subsidized pricing. No app store. No 3G. No jail breaks. 8GB max. Just pure Apple iPhone with a ZERO installed base. Why (if I'm not Apple) would I care what the marketshare will be in 2012?
So just to make sure I understand. About three months ago Apple said they hadn't yet balanced supply and demand (not the same as a shortage BTW). Geez, why didn't you say it was old news.
Apparently that problem must have been dealt with. Drop by or call your local Verizon store and ask for a couple of iPhones.
The shortage is largely manifest in China, which was also in that report and which I have also mentioned.
We get hard news about Apply's supply and demand when they release their figures, so we will next week. However - just to be clear once more. I provided the link. You are now scurrying for cover, but it aint gonna work - I supplied the link you asked for. Remedially.