Isn't this a pretty serious design flaw, when they can only update the OS by completely replacing it?
It is brute force but I'd hardly call it a design flaw. In fact as long as the downloads are manageable I'd call it a smart move on Apples part.
By doing this every piece of supplied software, especially libraries are at a know rev level. Further the entire development environment has been under extensive development and each full download should mean a better code base.
Quote:
Android phones can do small incremental updates without needing to be plugged into a computer, but with iOS, the same updates would eat up a pretty major chunk out of the data plan...
Oh so you are trying to promote Android here.
Seriously though I think Appkes approach is preferrable. There is a far lesser chance of a minor update breaking something. Ideally Apple tests the entire release before shipping so we as users should have fewer problems.
As to the data plan, well I avoid app updates over 3G for that very reason. It saves me a lot of bytes to wait until I can find an access point or connect to my Mac. I know people love the idea of the cloud but money is green and clouds are white. I could find meaning in that statement but I give up the fight.
In any event it is all about how you look at the issue and what you see. I think Apple has learned from the mistakes of others here.
Seriously though I think Appkes approach is preferrable. There is a far lesser chance of a minor update breaking something. Ideally Apple tests the entire release before shipping so we as users should have fewer problems.
Totally agree!
Plus the entire system is in one continuous block of Flash memory. With incremental patches you have bits and pieces all over the place with small chunks of unused space. Then there is the Flash erase limitation which is lessened with the full replace. Finally it is sent completely optimized as you said, all the libraries and drivers are matched to one another. And of course there is always the latest jailbreaking prevention in each upgrade.
Steve Jobs: "FaceTime will be WiFi-only in 2010. We need to work a little with the cellular providers. Get ready... for the future. So we?re WiFi-only in 2010.?
That's certainly no promise of FaceTime over 3G. He makes no claim of anything other than it would only be WiFi in 2010. 2011 and beyond may or may not be 3G. If he was promising 3G in 2011, he would've said 3G isn't coming until 2011. In other words, they're working to make it happen, but all they know at this time is that there will be no 3G for FaceTime in 2010.
Well if you have the problem now, go ahead and update to see if it works. Worst case, the problem is the same right?
The unexpected problems introduced with 4.3 (and not fixed with 4.3.1) have me a little gun shy, frankly. That's why I was asking if anyone who'd had the problem could confirm whether or not 4.3.2 fixed it. If it doesn't, I'm inclined to not even bother updating for fear of something else getting screwed up. I've lost data due to problems with iOS 4.3.
If it will only be WiFi in 2010, you can?t see how this infers it allow a different connection in 2011? What other connection type do you think would be added besides WiFi? USB? Bluetooth? Do you not see how his words are an assurance that cellular connectivity will be coming after 2010?
I wasn't asked, but sorry, there was no promise, inference yes, promise no. However, tis naught but a trifle... on the to the important question-
What is holding them up for 3G facetime? Skype is eating their lunch. There must be some reason. Does Skype pay a flat fee and Apple does not want to? Does Apple need to charge something .. but doesn't have the payment system set up???
Argh. This is the absolute worst time for me to need a new iphone. I want to go with Verizon, but my AT&T backup won't restore to Verizon's earlier version of iOS. And now the white iPhone is in the mix in the near future.
I started a new acct with an AT&T iPhone two weeks ago. I have two more weeks before I can cancel out of my AT&T contract without serious penalties.
It would be awesome if Verizon would get the white iPhone and the current iOS before those two weeks were up!
That's certainly no promise of FaceTime over 3G. He makes no claim of anything other than it would only be WiFi in 2010. 2011 and beyond may or may not be 3G. If he was promising 3G in 2011, he would've said 3G isn't coming until 2011. In other words, they're working to make it happen, but all they know at this time is that there will be no 3G for FaceTime in 2010.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15
I wasn't asked, but sorry, there was no promise, inference yes, promise no. However, tis naught but a trifle... on the to the important question-
What is holding them up for 3G facetime? Skype is eating their lunch. There must be some reason. Does Skype pay a flat fee and Apple does not want to? Does Apple need to charge something .. but doesn't have the payment system set up???
Is there some reason the (?) after I wrote the word promise is being ignored? I made the statement, I found the video, I linked to it, I noted the time, I stated it was an inference.
Seriously though I think Appkes approach is preferrable. There is a far lesser chance of a minor update breaking something. Ideally Apple tests the entire release before shipping so we as users should have fewer problems.
True, but for those few of us who do experience problems (as some of us did with 4.3.x), it can be a pain in the ass getting back up to speed.
First of all the iPhone updates are not OTA like Droids. So only Droids owners have to worry about data caps. Secondly, does a Droid owner have control over when and if their OS update happens? iPhone users can choose when and even if they want to update their phone.
Microsoft has always loved the "patch" method. Plenty of horror stories there.
What is holding them up for 3G facetime? Skype is eating their lunch. There must be some reason. Does Skype pay a flat fee and Apple does not want to? Does Apple need to charge something .. but doesn't have the payment system set up???
Skype is eating their lunch? Boy, you have a weird view of reality! By what metric??
But mainly user experience of video chat under 3G kinda sucks. Same reason you need broadband to use video iChat. Sure, Apple technically *could* pump iChat video over dialup, but it looks and sounds terrible.
Is there some reason the (?) after I wrote the word promise is being ignored? I made the statement, I found the video, I linked to it, I noted the time, I stated it was an inference.
If you using a "?" was meant as your indication that it was an inference on your part, then why choose the word promise to go along with it? I think the point is that if you agree that this was only your inference, then there is no argument here, because we all agree it was your inference.
I am a pretty reasonable person, and I can read between the lines as well as the next person. I want to be on your side on this, but I can't really agree with you on making this inference. When I heard Steve make these comments, I never thought "Oh yay!, this means facetime will go 3G next year."
If it will only be WiFi in 2010, you can?t see how this infers it allow a different connection in 2011? What other connection type do you think would be added besides WiFi? USB? Bluetooth? Do you not see how his words are an assurance that cellular connectivity will be coming after 2010?
But just because it infers doesn't mean it's a PROMISE. Like AT&T and their tethering plus MMS....
If you using a "?" was meant as your indication that it was an inference on your part, then why choose the word promise to go along with it? I think the point is that if you agree that this was only your inference, then there is no argument here, because we all agree it was your inference.
I am a pretty reasonable person, and I can read between the lines as well as the next person. I want to be on your side on this, but I can't really agree with you on making this inference. When I heard Steve make these comments, I never thought "Oh yay!, this means facetime will go 3G next year."
I was recalling a few words from Steve Jobs from almost a year ago, hence my inclusion of the question mark. Does “, as i recall, “ literally have to be spelled out? I certainly think the QUESTION mark is enough to show doubt as that it was promised.
PS: I think his words do imply they are planning to bring FaceTime over ‘3G’ this year. Whether that goal happens or not is another thing. Sometimes there are delays, just look at the white iPhone.
If it will only be WiFi in 2010, you can?t see how this infers it allow a different connection in 2011? What other connection type do you think would be added besides WiFi? USB? Bluetooth? Do you not see how his words are an assurance that cellular connectivity will be coming after 2010?
We have to work with the cell carriers. Hence, it's in their hands to get their backbones ready before we begin testing it on our end. That's an open ended time frame, and therefore, not an inference to 2011.
I was recalling a few words from Steve Jobs from almost a year ago, hence my inclusion of the question mark. Does ?, as i recall, ? literally have to be spelled out? I certainly think the QUESTION mark is enough to show doubt as that it was promised.
PS: I think his words do imply they are planning to bring FaceTime over ?3G? this year. Whether that goal happens or not is another thing. Sometimes there are delays, just look at the white iPhone.
After several of us said there was no promise, you continued with your claim by citing a link. You can probably understand why we all thought you were still claiming it to be a promise.
As for your thought process, did Steve intend to imply this meaning? He surely might have intended it, as he chooses his words carefully. My guess is that he didn't want to say yes or no, so he made a vague comment that invited some people to draw their own conclusions and maybe even assume incorrectly. I was not one of these people, but I can see how you jumped to this conclusion of an implied promise because you wanted to believe it. I have been in that boat before.
After several of us said there was no promise, you continued with your claim by citing a link. You can probably understand why we all thought you were still claiming it to be a promise.
Now who is inferring? I provided a link, a quote and even the exact time in which the comment I was referring to was made.
For future reference anytime someone put a (?) after a word or number it means they are unsure if it?s correct. Even Wikipedia notes this usage.
Quote:
The question mark can also be used as a meta-sign to signal uncertainty regarding what precedes. It is usually put between brackets (?). The uncertainty may concern either a superficial (such as unsure spelling) or a deeper truth (real meaning) level.
I was recalling a few words from Steve Jobs from almost a year ago, hence my inclusion of the question mark. Does ?, as i recall, ? literally have to be spelled out? I certainly think the QUESTION mark is enough to show doubt as that it was promised.
PS: I think his words do imply they are planning to bring FaceTime over ?3G? this year. Whether that goal happens or not is another thing. Sometimes there are delays, just look at the white iPhone.
I'm with you on this. From what Steve Jobs actually said, only a lawyer or a pedant would assume anything other than Facetime would be 3G in 2011.
Before the install the battery was listed at 14%. (iOS 4.3.1)
After the update the battery lists now at 22%. (iOS 4.3.2)
I guess the question is, how long did you have it plugged into USB while it was downloading the update and then applying it? The phone would have been charging that time.
Comments
Isn't this a pretty serious design flaw, when they can only update the OS by completely replacing it?
It is brute force but I'd hardly call it a design flaw. In fact as long as the downloads are manageable I'd call it a smart move on Apples part.
By doing this every piece of supplied software, especially libraries are at a know rev level. Further the entire development environment has been under extensive development and each full download should mean a better code base.
Android phones can do small incremental updates without needing to be plugged into a computer, but with iOS, the same updates would eat up a pretty major chunk out of the data plan...
Oh so you are trying to promote Android here.
Seriously though I think Appkes approach is preferrable. There is a far lesser chance of a minor update breaking something. Ideally Apple tests the entire release before shipping so we as users should have fewer problems.
As to the data plan, well I avoid app updates over 3G for that very reason. It saves me a lot of bytes to wait until I can find an access point or connect to my Mac. I know people love the idea of the cloud but money is green and clouds are white. I could find meaning in that statement but I give up the fight.
In any event it is all about how you look at the issue and what you see. I think Apple has learned from the mistakes of others here.
Seriously though I think Appkes approach is preferrable. There is a far lesser chance of a minor update breaking something. Ideally Apple tests the entire release before shipping so we as users should have fewer problems.
Totally agree!
Plus the entire system is in one continuous block of Flash memory. With incremental patches you have bits and pieces all over the place with small chunks of unused space. Then there is the Flash erase limitation which is lessened with the full replace. Finally it is sent completely optimized as you said, all the libraries and drivers are matched to one another. And of course there is always the latest jailbreaking prevention in each upgrade.
That's certainly no promise of FaceTime over 3G. He makes no claim of anything other than it would only be WiFi in 2010. 2011 and beyond may or may not be 3G. If he was promising 3G in 2011, he would've said 3G isn't coming until 2011. In other words, they're working to make it happen, but all they know at this time is that there will be no 3G for FaceTime in 2010.
Well if you have the problem now, go ahead and update to see if it works. Worst case, the problem is the same right?
The unexpected problems introduced with 4.3 (and not fixed with 4.3.1) have me a little gun shy, frankly. That's why I was asking if anyone who'd had the problem could confirm whether or not 4.3.2 fixed it. If it doesn't, I'm inclined to not even bother updating for fear of something else getting screwed up. I've lost data due to problems with iOS 4.3.
If it will only be WiFi in 2010, you can?t see how this infers it allow a different connection in 2011? What other connection type do you think would be added besides WiFi? USB? Bluetooth?
I wasn't asked, but sorry, there was no promise, inference yes, promise no. However, tis naught but a trifle... on the to the important question-
What is holding them up for 3G facetime? Skype is eating their lunch. There must be some reason. Does Skype pay a flat fee and Apple does not want to? Does Apple need to charge something .. but doesn't have the payment system set up???
I started a new acct with an AT&T iPhone two weeks ago. I have two more weeks before I can cancel out of my AT&T contract without serious penalties.
It would be awesome if Verizon would get the white iPhone and the current iOS before those two weeks were up!
That's certainly no promise of FaceTime over 3G. He makes no claim of anything other than it would only be WiFi in 2010. 2011 and beyond may or may not be 3G. If he was promising 3G in 2011, he would've said 3G isn't coming until 2011. In other words, they're working to make it happen, but all they know at this time is that there will be no 3G for FaceTime in 2010.
I wasn't asked, but sorry, there was no promise, inference yes, promise no. However, tis naught but a trifle... on the to the important question-
What is holding them up for 3G facetime? Skype is eating their lunch. There must be some reason. Does Skype pay a flat fee and Apple does not want to? Does Apple need to charge something .. but doesn't have the payment system set up???
Is there some reason the (?) after I wrote the word promise is being ignored? I made the statement, I found the video, I linked to it, I noted the time, I stated it was an inference.
Seriously though I think Appkes approach is preferrable. There is a far lesser chance of a minor update breaking something. Ideally Apple tests the entire release before shipping so we as users should have fewer problems.
True, but for those few of us who do experience problems (as some of us did with 4.3.x), it can be a pain in the ass getting back up to speed.
Microsoft has always loved the "patch" method. Plenty of horror stories there.
Apple has the better OS update formula.
What is holding them up for 3G facetime? Skype is eating their lunch. There must be some reason. Does Skype pay a flat fee and Apple does not want to? Does Apple need to charge something .. but doesn't have the payment system set up???
Skype is eating their lunch? Boy, you have a weird view of reality!
But mainly user experience of video chat under 3G kinda sucks. Same reason you need broadband to use video iChat. Sure, Apple technically *could* pump iChat video over dialup, but it looks and sounds terrible.
Is there some reason the (?) after I wrote the word promise is being ignored? I made the statement, I found the video, I linked to it, I noted the time, I stated it was an inference.
If you using a "?" was meant as your indication that it was an inference on your part, then why choose the word promise to go along with it? I think the point is that if you agree that this was only your inference, then there is no argument here, because we all agree it was your inference.
I am a pretty reasonable person, and I can read between the lines as well as the next person. I want to be on your side on this, but I can't really agree with you on making this inference. When I heard Steve make these comments, I never thought "Oh yay!, this means facetime will go 3G next year."
If it will only be WiFi in 2010, you can?t see how this infers it allow a different connection in 2011? What other connection type do you think would be added besides WiFi? USB? Bluetooth?
But just because it infers doesn't mean it's a PROMISE. Like AT&T and their tethering plus MMS....
If you using a "?" was meant as your indication that it was an inference on your part, then why choose the word promise to go along with it? I think the point is that if you agree that this was only your inference, then there is no argument here, because we all agree it was your inference.
I am a pretty reasonable person, and I can read between the lines as well as the next person. I want to be on your side on this, but I can't really agree with you on making this inference. When I heard Steve make these comments, I never thought "Oh yay!, this means facetime will go 3G next year."
I was recalling a few words from Steve Jobs from almost a year ago, hence my inclusion of the question mark. Does “, as i recall, “ literally have to be spelled out? I certainly think the QUESTION mark is enough to show doubt as that it was promised.
PS: I think his words do imply they are planning to bring FaceTime over ‘3G’ this year. Whether that goal happens or not is another thing. Sometimes there are delays, just look at the white iPhone.
If it will only be WiFi in 2010, you can?t see how this infers it allow a different connection in 2011? What other connection type do you think would be added besides WiFi? USB? Bluetooth?
We have to work with the cell carriers. Hence, it's in their hands to get their backbones ready before we begin testing it on our end. That's an open ended time frame, and therefore, not an inference to 2011.
I was recalling a few words from Steve Jobs from almost a year ago, hence my inclusion of the question mark. Does ?, as i recall, ? literally have to be spelled out? I certainly think the QUESTION mark is enough to show doubt as that it was promised.
PS: I think his words do imply they are planning to bring FaceTime over ?3G? this year. Whether that goal happens or not is another thing. Sometimes there are delays, just look at the white iPhone.
After several of us said there was no promise, you continued with your claim by citing a link. You can probably understand why we all thought you were still claiming it to be a promise.
As for your thought process, did Steve intend to imply this meaning? He surely might have intended it, as he chooses his words carefully. My guess is that he didn't want to say yes or no, so he made a vague comment that invited some people to draw their own conclusions and maybe even assume incorrectly. I was not one of these people, but I can see how you jumped to this conclusion of an implied promise because you wanted to believe it. I have been in that boat before.
After several of us said there was no promise, you continued with your claim by citing a link. You can probably understand why we all thought you were still claiming it to be a promise.
Now who is inferring? I provided a link, a quote and even the exact time in which the comment I was referring to was made.
For future reference anytime someone put a (?) after a word or number it means they are unsure if it?s correct. Even Wikipedia notes this usage.
The question mark can also be used as a meta-sign to signal uncertainty regarding what precedes. It is usually put between brackets (?). The uncertainty may concern either a superficial (such as unsure spelling) or a deeper truth (real meaning) level.
After the update the battery lists now at 22%. (iOS 4.3.2)
I was recalling a few words from Steve Jobs from almost a year ago, hence my inclusion of the question mark. Does ?, as i recall, ? literally have to be spelled out? I certainly think the QUESTION mark is enough to show doubt as that it was promised.
PS: I think his words do imply they are planning to bring FaceTime over ?3G? this year. Whether that goal happens or not is another thing. Sometimes there are delays, just look at the white iPhone.
I'm with you on this. From what Steve Jobs actually said, only a lawyer or a pedant would assume anything other than Facetime would be 3G in 2011.
Before the install the battery was listed at 14%. (iOS 4.3.1)
After the update the battery lists now at 22%. (iOS 4.3.2)
I guess the question is, how long did you have it plugged into USB while it was downloading the update and then applying it? The phone would have been charging that time.
seriously man, anyone who wants to download a file that large on 3g deserves whatever chargews they incur.
edited to say it was in response to SuperAss's post