The first poster has to derail a thread. Teckstud, anyone? :sigh:
Moving on? It?s one thing to say that people didn?t jump to the Verizon iPhone mid-cycle, but it?s a different story when AT&T is still beating you in iPhone activations despite the Verizon iPhone being officially announced on January 11, 2011.
Haha, the reincarnation of Teckstud.
3 Million iPhones on Verizon, when ATT activated 3.6 is huge! Forget how long the lines are, if this is true then Verizon iPhone was a huge success. And when iPhone 5 comes out on both carriers, I feel like apple will be back in contention for most activations.
Plus by then we should have palm on the market as well, which will likely dilute the android sales more then iPhone sales if it is successful.
Sure it was announced Jan 11th, but it wasn't available until Feb. Even if you theorize that every potential Verizon buyer held off and waited as soon as they heard the Jan 11th announcement, that's still 15% of the quarter that Verizon missed out on. Extrapolate that out and you get to about 3.5 million Verizon iPhones vs ATTs 3.6 million. Add in the fact that not everyone would have waited between Jan 11th and availability, folks thinking they'd just wait until June for the iPhone 5 (oops), and that any potential ATT-to-Verizon switchers are waiting for their contracts to run out, I'd call it a wash.
Sure, Verizon should have gotten a kick from pent up demand, but ATT also has multi-year head start to build up an upgrading customer base. And let's face it, most people probably couldn't care less about the whole ATT v Verizon debate.
I'd give it at least another quarter before passing any judgement.
I see your point and took all that into consideration, but Verizon customers didn?t miss out from buying the iPhone this past quarter and they would have experienced a surge that AT&T wouldn?t have had as of Feburary.
Remember, we were told that everybody was waiting for the iPhone on Verizon and that sales would be through the roof compared to AT&T (which everybody hates). IOW, if you really wanted and Verizon iPhone you would have been on the ready as of January 11th with the official confirmation.
My point was that the situation isn?t as dire at AT&T as some were saying. Next quarter we?ll certainly get a better idea of the interest between the two companies. Personally, I won?t give up the fast data or simultaneous V&D.
3 Million iPhones on Verizon, when ATT activated 3.6 is huge! Forget how long the lines are, if this is true then Verizon iPhone was a huge success. And when iPhone 5 comes out on both carriers, I feel like apple will be back in contention for most activations.
Plus by then we should have palm on the market as well, which will likely dilute the android sales more then iPhone sales if it is successful.
Verizon?s earnings are tomorrow. I look forward to seeing if and/or how much the iPhone disrupted Android on their network. Of the iPhones they activated how many were new to Verizon? How many were using dumbphones never having touched a smartphone before? How many were using BBs or Android-based devices? Will the shift in device vendors look like AT&T in a year or two, or does AT&T?s poor Android-based device selection greatly affect their sales?
Gartner isn't even going to get the rest of this year right much less the next 3. It was pretty obvious that iPhone was going to gain ground on Android once it was available on more than one carrier. I know someone that was using an HTC Android phone and switched to the iPhone when she was offered an upgrade. She said she likes her iPhone a lot more than the Android phone because the Android phone froze and crashed a lot.
My, my, that tin foil hat looks ever so stylish on you, Parttimer.
Yeah, the fad is catching on. The European Commission now wears 'm too. It fined Micro$haft 5 billion Euros already. And that case is on-going. Google c.s. are now in their sights. Have been cautioned. Ignored it. And face sterner measures. Expect this to play out over years, like Micro$haft's case. And into the billions again. Like Micro$haft's case.
The first poster has to derail a thread. Teckstud, anyone? :sigh:
Moving on? It?s one thing to say that people didn?t jump to the Verizon iPhone mid-cycle, but it?s a different story when AT&T is still beating you in iPhone activations despite the Verizon iPhone being officially announced on January 11, 2011.
It's a few things:
-Feb. is a really odd time to launch a phone with Verizon. Because of their typical release cycle (and it being so soon after christmas) a lot of customer's wouldn't be eligible. For example, anyone with an Android phone currently is still under contract and will be until at least July. Sure, you have the holdouts who held onto their upgrade. But most people won't be coming up for upgrades until this summer/fall.
-When it launched, Verizon was already hyping "4G" phones. For people who want the coolest tech gadget, this could give them cause to hold on purchasing, even if they're waiting for a 4g iphone.
-Verizon significantly changed their upgrade policy before the iphone launch, removing things like Annual upgrades. They also made it so that you couldn't use Alternate upgrades (using another upgrade on your account and then switching it to your line) in most stores.
Another reason (related to the last point) is how the reps will deal with the iphone. The problem is that for a lot of them, they would make more money on a customer in commission if that customer bought ANY other phone. For example, one of my friends works for a local store. If he sells an Octane (simple messaging phone) he makes $10. If he sells a Droid/Blackberry he makes between $40-$60. If the store still has any Palm's lying around, he can make up to $100. If he sells an iPhone... he'll make between $2.50-$5. On top of Apple having a very different return/warranty policy, which leads to a lot of confusion with longstanding Verizon customers who don't understand why local stores can't troubleshoot issues on their devices anymore.
Now, for people like you and me, we don't really go off of what a rep recommends because we know more than the average customer about the technology and what we want. But most customers come in looking for something that is "Cool" and is an "upgrade" from their old phone. In that case, a lot of reps are going to be doing everything they can to steer customers away from an iphone. Both because of the increased commissions, and because it means fewer headaches since those devices are still "Business as usual" when it comes to support.
But sadly, the biggest reason the sales figures are so low (IMO)? There are STILL a ton of people who assumed that if Verizon got it, they could activate it without a data plan since they "never go online on their phone."
there’s no indication that Apple has any way to access this data at all—the only way to get it is to have access to your iPhone or to your iPhone backups, and to know whose iPhone the file belongs to.
That's easy! Every iPhone/iPad user has registered an account in the App Store. iTunes has many hidden talents. And in the recently amended EULA Apple reserves the right to 'share' account data with unspecified third parties, for unspecified purposes... I.o.w. they've given themselves a blank cheque to do with your very personal data whatever they want!
That's easy! Every iPhone/iPad user has registered an account in the App Store. iTunes has many hidden talents. And in the recently amended EULA Apple reserves the right to 'share' account data with unspecified third parties, for unspecified purposes... I.o.w. they've given themselves a blank cheque to do with your very personal data whatever they want!
Blank check? That implies giving your name 'openly' with that data. That would open Apple to huge legal exposure. They haven't appeared to be that stupid.
Obviously you are concerned about security, rightly so, thus you know about hash accounts etc. If implement properly, with high encryption, even apple doesn't know which user data goes to which user id.
Knowing this, and your are still concerned about 'very personal data' being used 'as they want', can you share your concerns about what 'very personal data' do you mean and how this exposure comes about?
Why do you surmise that the Thunderbolt only sold 260,000 units?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno
But sadly, the biggest reason the sales figures are so low (IMO)? There are STILL a ton of people who assumed that if Verizon got it, they could activate it without a data plan since they "never go online on their phone."
Why do you surmise that the Thunderbolt only sold 260,000 units?
I Don't know the real reasons, but here's what I think contributed to it:
-Stupid rumor cycle, best buy flops (seriously.. why does ANY company trust them with big launches?) made a lot of people either get another phone, or wait to see what other LTE models would come out. There was a pretty big backlash over the launch, especially considering people received official Verizon advertisements saying the Thunderbolt was "Available" before it was even officially given a release date.
-It's not a dual core phone, so the "OMG SpecS" people are holding out for a phone like the Bionic or something similar, even though no phone version of Android handles dual core yet.
-It's $50 more on contract than many other high end phones, and you can get a phone like the Incredible (which is still a great phone) for $100 or less. I know $50 doesn't sound like a lot, but Cellphone customers are stupidly cheap. They will choose a device they KNOW they won't like because it's "free" or it's $10 cheaper than the phone they would actually want. I wish I was kidding, but I'm not. Contract pricing is probably the BIGGEST thing holding back cellphone innovation right now.
-LTE isn't available in a lot of locations yet, and even though the monthly pricing is EXACTLY the same, people won't get the LTE model. Again, most customer's don't understand tech.
-And of course, it's not an iPhone. I won't make any statements on quality because to each their own. But again, the average consumer doesn't understand a lot of the differences between Android, iOS, or even Blackberry (again, I'm sadly serious). But the iPhone has, by far, the biggest brand recognition. And the thunderbolt wasn't an iphone, it wasn't even a "DROID" branded device.
Funny aside story: I had someone ask me if the iPhone for Verizon would be "Droid" branded, because his work said he could choose and Droid phone. That's how the average customer understands marketing.
Full Disclosure: I used to sell cellphones for a Verizon retailer, so I interacted with "Average" customers daily. I'm not trying to make fun of them. People are smarter in other areas than I'll ever be with tech. It's just interesting to take a step back and see how the "Non-enthusiast" views the technology/brands we get so heated about online.
I Don't know the real reasons, but here's what I think contributed to it:
-Stupid rumor cycle, best buy flops (seriously.. why does ANY company trust them with big launches?) made a lot of people either get another phone, or wait to see what other LTE models would come out. There was a pretty big backlash over the launch, especially considering people received official Verizon advertisements saying the Thunderbolt was "Available" before it was even officially given a release date.
-It's not a dual core phone, so the "OMG SpecS" people are holding out for a phone like the Bionic or something similar, even though no phone version of Android handles dual core yet.
-It's $50 more on contract than many other high end phones, and you can get a phone like the Incredible (which is still a great phone) for $100 or less. I know $50 doesn't sound like a lot, but Cellphone customers are stupidly cheap. They will choose a device they KNOW they won't like because it's "free" or it's $10 cheaper than the phone they would actually want. I wish I was kidding, but I'm not. Contract pricing is probably the BIGGEST thing holding back cellphone innovation right now.
-LTE isn't available in a lot of locations yet, and even though the monthly pricing is EXACTLY the same, people won't get the LTE model. Again, most customer's don't understand tech.
-And of course, it's not an iPhone. I won't make any statements on quality because to each their own. But again, the average consumer doesn't understand a lot of the differences between Android, iOS, or even Blackberry (again, I'm sadly serious). But the iPhone has, by far, the biggest brand recognition. And the thunderbolt wasn't an iphone, it wasn't even a "DROID" branded device.
Funny aside story: I had someone ask me if the iPhone for Verizon would be "Droid" branded, because his work said he could choose and Droid phone. That's how the average customer understands marketing.
Full Disclosure: I used to sell cellphones for a Verizon retailer, so I interacted with "Average" customers daily. I'm not trying to make fun of them. People are smarter in other areas than I'll ever be with tech. It's just interesting to take a step back and see how the "Non-enthusiast" views the technology/brands we get so heated about online.
I think it's going to get harder and harder to sell new marquee premium Android phones. Model fatigue is already setting in, you can only go the "OMG! Awesome! New Best Android!" well so many times before people start getting wise. Current Android phones selling for $100 or less are plenty capable, spec pounding is unlikely to persuade many.
After that, it get's harder and harder to sell even $100 Android phones, since Droid Incredible level handsets quickly move to the free with contract bin. When Android is on practically every phone in the store and half of them are free, you're communicating to your customer base that Android isn't worth very much-- it's just the default OS on whatever cheap ass phone comes to hand. In the face of that, once you hit a reasonable level of functionality, how do you keep selling $200 phones in any real numbers? After all, a huge percentage of those Android phones being sold are just getting used for email, texting and web access, with maybe a few currently popular games thrown in. If all of those things work well, why do you need to spring for the latest super awesome?
The iPhone has opted for entirely different model, maintaining price points and communicating value. Yearly updates means you don't have to figure your expensive new best phone will be rapidly eclipsed, and the improvements are likely to be substantial rather than incremental.
The race to the bottom that happened in the PC world (with dire results for the profits of the participants) is happening double time in the Android world. Apple has already shown that it can thrive by swimming against the tide in the PC market, I suspect they'll do the same in mobile.
Comments
The first poster has to derail a thread. Teckstud, anyone? :sigh:
Moving on? It?s one thing to say that people didn?t jump to the Verizon iPhone mid-cycle, but it?s a different story when AT&T is still beating you in iPhone activations despite the Verizon iPhone being officially announced on January 11, 2011.
Haha, the reincarnation of Teckstud.
3 Million iPhones on Verizon, when ATT activated 3.6 is huge! Forget how long the lines are, if this is true then Verizon iPhone was a huge success. And when iPhone 5 comes out on both carriers, I feel like apple will be back in contention for most activations.
Plus by then we should have palm on the market as well, which will likely dilute the android sales more then iPhone sales if it is successful.
Sure it was announced Jan 11th, but it wasn't available until Feb. Even if you theorize that every potential Verizon buyer held off and waited as soon as they heard the Jan 11th announcement, that's still 15% of the quarter that Verizon missed out on. Extrapolate that out and you get to about 3.5 million Verizon iPhones vs ATTs 3.6 million. Add in the fact that not everyone would have waited between Jan 11th and availability, folks thinking they'd just wait until June for the iPhone 5 (oops), and that any potential ATT-to-Verizon switchers are waiting for their contracts to run out, I'd call it a wash.
Sure, Verizon should have gotten a kick from pent up demand, but ATT also has multi-year head start to build up an upgrading customer base. And let's face it, most people probably couldn't care less about the whole ATT v Verizon debate.
I'd give it at least another quarter before passing any judgement.
I see your point and took all that into consideration, but Verizon customers didn?t miss out from buying the iPhone this past quarter and they would have experienced a surge that AT&T wouldn?t have had as of Feburary.
Remember, we were told that everybody was waiting for the iPhone on Verizon and that sales would be through the roof compared to AT&T (which everybody hates). IOW, if you really wanted and Verizon iPhone you would have been on the ready as of January 11th with the official confirmation.
My point was that the situation isn?t as dire at AT&T as some were saying. Next quarter we?ll certainly get a better idea of the interest between the two companies. Personally, I won?t give up the fast data or simultaneous V&D.
Haha, the reincarnation of Teckstud.
3 Million iPhones on Verizon, when ATT activated 3.6 is huge! Forget how long the lines are, if this is true then Verizon iPhone was a huge success. And when iPhone 5 comes out on both carriers, I feel like apple will be back in contention for most activations.
Plus by then we should have palm on the market as well, which will likely dilute the android sales more then iPhone sales if it is successful.
Verizon?s earnings are tomorrow. I look forward to seeing if and/or how much the iPhone disrupted Android on their network. Of the iPhones they activated how many were new to Verizon? How many were using dumbphones never having touched a smartphone before? How many were using BBs or Android-based devices? Will the shift in device vendors look like AT&T in a year or two, or does AT&T?s poor Android-based device selection greatly affect their sales?
My, my, that tin foil hat looks ever so stylish on you, Parttimer.
Yeah, the fad is catching on. The European Commission now wears 'm too. It fined Micro$haft 5 billion Euros already. And that case is on-going. Google c.s. are now in their sights. Have been cautioned. Ignored it. And face sterner measures. Expect this to play out over years, like Micro$haft's case. And into the billions again. Like Micro$haft's case.
Those are expensive hats, you see.
The first poster has to derail a thread. Teckstud, anyone? :sigh:
Moving on? It?s one thing to say that people didn?t jump to the Verizon iPhone mid-cycle, but it?s a different story when AT&T is still beating you in iPhone activations despite the Verizon iPhone being officially announced on January 11, 2011.
It's a few things:
-Feb. is a really odd time to launch a phone with Verizon. Because of their typical release cycle (and it being so soon after christmas) a lot of customer's wouldn't be eligible. For example, anyone with an Android phone currently is still under contract and will be until at least July. Sure, you have the holdouts who held onto their upgrade. But most people won't be coming up for upgrades until this summer/fall.
-When it launched, Verizon was already hyping "4G" phones. For people who want the coolest tech gadget, this could give them cause to hold on purchasing, even if they're waiting for a 4g iphone.
-Verizon significantly changed their upgrade policy before the iphone launch, removing things like Annual upgrades. They also made it so that you couldn't use Alternate upgrades (using another upgrade on your account and then switching it to your line) in most stores.
Another reason (related to the last point) is how the reps will deal with the iphone. The problem is that for a lot of them, they would make more money on a customer in commission if that customer bought ANY other phone. For example, one of my friends works for a local store. If he sells an Octane (simple messaging phone) he makes $10. If he sells a Droid/Blackberry he makes between $40-$60. If the store still has any Palm's lying around, he can make up to $100. If he sells an iPhone... he'll make between $2.50-$5. On top of Apple having a very different return/warranty policy, which leads to a lot of confusion with longstanding Verizon customers who don't understand why local stores can't troubleshoot issues on their devices anymore.
Now, for people like you and me, we don't really go off of what a rep recommends because we know more than the average customer about the technology and what we want. But most customers come in looking for something that is "Cool" and is an "upgrade" from their old phone. In that case, a lot of reps are going to be doing everything they can to steer customers away from an iphone. Both because of the increased commissions, and because it means fewer headaches since those devices are still "Business as usual" when it comes to support.
But sadly, the biggest reason the sales figures are so low (IMO)? There are STILL a ton of people who assumed that if Verizon got it, they could activate it without a data plan since they "never go online on their phone."
there’s no indication that Apple has any way to access this data at all—the only way to get it is to have access to your iPhone or to your iPhone backups, and to know whose iPhone the file belongs to.
That's easy! Every iPhone/iPad user has registered an account in the App Store. iTunes has many hidden talents. And in the recently amended EULA Apple reserves the right to 'share' account data with unspecified third parties, for unspecified purposes... I.o.w. they've given themselves a blank cheque to do with your very personal data whatever they want!
That's easy! Every iPhone/iPad user has registered an account in the App Store. iTunes has many hidden talents. And in the recently amended EULA Apple reserves the right to 'share' account data with unspecified third parties, for unspecified purposes... I.o.w. they've given themselves a blank cheque to do with your very personal data whatever they want!
Blank check? That implies giving your name 'openly' with that data. That would open Apple to huge legal exposure. They haven't appeared to be that stupid.
Obviously you are concerned about security, rightly so, thus you know about hash accounts etc. If implement properly, with high encryption, even apple doesn't know which user data goes to which user id.
Knowing this, and your are still concerned about 'very personal data' being used 'as they want', can you share your concerns about what 'very personal data' do you mean and how this exposure comes about?
hash accounts etc. If implement properly, with high encryption,
Which is a big IF!
And even if implemented "properly", history has proven this to be meaningless, again and again.
Today 1.024 bit encryption keys can already be cracked with desktop supercomputers (which can be had for less than 10,000).
even apple doesn't know which user data goes to which user id
And you really believe that BS?
You have a very short memory. Have you already forgotten about DropBox's exposure, not two days ago?
what 'very personal data' do you mean
What not!
and how this exposure comes about?
Losing, hacking, selling, and handing over. The last two of which will do 99% of the damage.
And all of those 3 million iPhones (as well as all iPads and synced computers) are being tracked and logged by Apple!
Steve IS Big Brother!
Check here to see how your devices are being tracked and logged.
Find My iPhone? Places?
And all of those 3 million iPhones (as well as all iPads and synced computers) are being tracked and logged by Apple!
Steve IS Big Brother!
Check here to see how your devices are being tracked and logged.
And loving it
http://scoopertino.com/apple-embrace...wl-commercial/
Don't get freaked out, it's a joke.
But sadly, the biggest reason the sales figures are so low (IMO)? There are STILL a ton of people who assumed that if Verizon got it, they could activate it without a data plan since they "never go online on their phone."
Why do you surmise that the Thunderbolt only sold 260,000 units?
I Don't know the real reasons, but here's what I think contributed to it:
-Stupid rumor cycle, best buy flops (seriously.. why does ANY company trust them with big launches?) made a lot of people either get another phone, or wait to see what other LTE models would come out. There was a pretty big backlash over the launch, especially considering people received official Verizon advertisements saying the Thunderbolt was "Available" before it was even officially given a release date.
-It's not a dual core phone, so the "OMG SpecS" people are holding out for a phone like the Bionic or something similar, even though no phone version of Android handles dual core yet.
-It's $50 more on contract than many other high end phones, and you can get a phone like the Incredible (which is still a great phone) for $100 or less. I know $50 doesn't sound like a lot, but Cellphone customers are stupidly cheap. They will choose a device they KNOW they won't like because it's "free" or it's $10 cheaper than the phone they would actually want. I wish I was kidding, but I'm not. Contract pricing is probably the BIGGEST thing holding back cellphone innovation right now.
-LTE isn't available in a lot of locations yet, and even though the monthly pricing is EXACTLY the same, people won't get the LTE model. Again, most customer's don't understand tech.
-And of course, it's not an iPhone. I won't make any statements on quality because to each their own. But again, the average consumer doesn't understand a lot of the differences between Android, iOS, or even Blackberry (again, I'm sadly serious). But the iPhone has, by far, the biggest brand recognition. And the thunderbolt wasn't an iphone, it wasn't even a "DROID" branded device.
Funny aside story: I had someone ask me if the iPhone for Verizon would be "Droid" branded, because his work said he could choose and Droid phone. That's how the average customer understands marketing.
Full Disclosure: I used to sell cellphones for a Verizon retailer, so I interacted with "Average" customers daily. I'm not trying to make fun of them. People are smarter in other areas than I'll ever be with tech. It's just interesting to take a step back and see how the "Non-enthusiast" views the technology/brands we get so heated about online.
I Don't know the real reasons, but here's what I think contributed to it:
-Stupid rumor cycle, best buy flops (seriously.. why does ANY company trust them with big launches?) made a lot of people either get another phone, or wait to see what other LTE models would come out. There was a pretty big backlash over the launch, especially considering people received official Verizon advertisements saying the Thunderbolt was "Available" before it was even officially given a release date.
-It's not a dual core phone, so the "OMG SpecS" people are holding out for a phone like the Bionic or something similar, even though no phone version of Android handles dual core yet.
-It's $50 more on contract than many other high end phones, and you can get a phone like the Incredible (which is still a great phone) for $100 or less. I know $50 doesn't sound like a lot, but Cellphone customers are stupidly cheap. They will choose a device they KNOW they won't like because it's "free" or it's $10 cheaper than the phone they would actually want. I wish I was kidding, but I'm not. Contract pricing is probably the BIGGEST thing holding back cellphone innovation right now.
-LTE isn't available in a lot of locations yet, and even though the monthly pricing is EXACTLY the same, people won't get the LTE model. Again, most customer's don't understand tech.
-And of course, it's not an iPhone. I won't make any statements on quality because to each their own. But again, the average consumer doesn't understand a lot of the differences between Android, iOS, or even Blackberry (again, I'm sadly serious). But the iPhone has, by far, the biggest brand recognition. And the thunderbolt wasn't an iphone, it wasn't even a "DROID" branded device.
Funny aside story: I had someone ask me if the iPhone for Verizon would be "Droid" branded, because his work said he could choose and Droid phone. That's how the average customer understands marketing.
Full Disclosure: I used to sell cellphones for a Verizon retailer, so I interacted with "Average" customers daily. I'm not trying to make fun of them. People are smarter in other areas than I'll ever be with tech. It's just interesting to take a step back and see how the "Non-enthusiast" views the technology/brands we get so heated about online.
I think it's going to get harder and harder to sell new marquee premium Android phones. Model fatigue is already setting in, you can only go the "OMG! Awesome! New Best Android!" well so many times before people start getting wise. Current Android phones selling for $100 or less are plenty capable, spec pounding is unlikely to persuade many.
After that, it get's harder and harder to sell even $100 Android phones, since Droid Incredible level handsets quickly move to the free with contract bin. When Android is on practically every phone in the store and half of them are free, you're communicating to your customer base that Android isn't worth very much-- it's just the default OS on whatever cheap ass phone comes to hand. In the face of that, once you hit a reasonable level of functionality, how do you keep selling $200 phones in any real numbers? After all, a huge percentage of those Android phones being sold are just getting used for email, texting and web access, with maybe a few currently popular games thrown in. If all of those things work well, why do you need to spring for the latest super awesome?
The iPhone has opted for entirely different model, maintaining price points and communicating value. Yearly updates means you don't have to figure your expensive new best phone will be rapidly eclipsed, and the improvements are likely to be substantial rather than incremental.
The race to the bottom that happened in the PC world (with dire results for the profits of the participants) is happening double time in the Android world. Apple has already shown that it can thrive by swimming against the tide in the PC market, I suspect they'll do the same in mobile.