When Google makes a mistake that involves privacy, folks here grab their pitchforks ready to storm the castle.
But when Apple makes a mistake that involves privacy, folks here stumble over each other to see who can apologize for them faster.
This forum is the embodiment of "double standard".
Here's the difference between this and Google's Street View WiFi network data collection. They were actually loading that data into their databases and, supposedly, no one ever noticed, each time it was loaded, that there was all this data there that they weren't supposed to be collecting. So, Google's assertion that it was "inadvertent" -- i.e., a mistake -- isn't really plausible. There's no way Google could not have known for years that it was collecting this data.
There is no way this is a bug. EVERY cell phone, smart or dumb, can track your location via at a minimum triangulation. If the phone isn't actively storing this information, then a database somewhere at the cell provider sure as heck is. Why? Number one reason is for the government. Number two would be for financial reasons such as targeted advertising on smart phones. If they know where you are, then an ad can pop open in your browser for a nearby business. Again, no way this is a bug. EVERY phone company is tracking you like it or not.
You're right in that user tracking can be performed, that's even mandatory in the US (E-911) and will be in many other countries.
BUT, the fact that operators store location information is just not true (why would they?). Lawful interception systems exist to find the location and monitor a particular user's location when the law enforcement agencies need to do so. Otherwise there is no point in doing it let alone waste money and resource in storing the location of your users.
For location base advertising, it's quite simple. You define advertising regions (say an airport) and define triggers that when a user enters the area, a message is sent.
The fact that AI would call this "feature" a bug is borderline silly fanboyism. It is quite clear as to why it stores this information (speeding up of location detection when user requests it). The only bug is that they didn't do a better job of hiding the data (by encryption for example).
This file is a bit unsettling but when looked at rationally there is more info in the emails, text messages, apps and webpage requests I send to servers all day from my phone.
How many of you use the same password for AI as you do for at least one other site? How many of you have the same iTS password for another logon? How many of you have just a few select passwords you rotate or use in a hierarchy depending on how secure and honest you think the site is? Personally I use 1Password to generate complex unique passwords for ever logon. If one gets hacked server-side nothing else can be exposed. I also use a low-value CC for all online accounts and just pay it off weekly to keep my bank accounts separate from online retailers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by svesan03
if you're a murdering rapist don't carry an iPhone with you. If you're a Dad, give one to your daughter just in case.
But you won?t know about their location until they bring it back home and sync it to iTunes. Even then you need access to that user account the iPhone backup resides and for that backup not to be encrypted via iTunes. Even if you then had access it?s just basic cell info and not very accurate compared to GPS.
It would be trivial for a criminal to delete their backups and restore their phone. It would also be trivial to grab your current GPS location for 911 calls and with warrants (which I hear is common place). For a father, AT&T has a paid service for getting GPS location of a device, not to mention MobileMe?s Find My iPhone service.
Yes, but a warrant is needed to access the cell phone company's records. It's not as accessible as an unencrypted file in your iTunes folder. And you can turn off Location Services to prevent sharing location information with advertisers.
Wait, are you saying you are more comfortable with your location data being gathered and stored by a phone company than with that data being stored on a phone and computer which YOU personally own and control?
By your standard, you should trust companies like Amazon to store your personal information & credit card info because you know, you shouldn't trust yourself with your credit cards and government issue ID card in your wallet. Its not encrypted. The need for a court order will stop hackers from obtaining this data from the phone company; just ask T-Mobile
As I said earlier, I don't believe that any senior management at Apple knew about or approved this. It's just not the sort of thing that fits with all the other things they do. It has the same "feel" to it as the Google WiFi problem - something done at lower level and, in Google's case, an oversight.
I think that the same is likely here also. As John Gruber put it - it's a bug. It's only supposed to keep the last location or two - not the whole list.
After reading and understanding the functionality of this so called "Bug" intentionally added in the June 2010 iOS update. I find it hard to digest that this feature is labeled as a bug; the fact that the file "consolidated.db" stores a years worth of data in an unencrypted state shows us how sloppy Apple is in regression testing code. The fact that consolidated.db is NOT encrypted is not a bug, its simply sloppy work.
OH NO! My iPhone is keeping a cache of the location services!
OH NO! My web browser is keeping a cache of my browsing history AND my passwords!
OH NO! Google is using my PERSONAL INFORMATION to advertise stuff to me!
OH NO! My Apache installation is keeping a log of people who access it and it gives me their IP Addresses so I can PINPOINT THEM ON A MAP OF THE WORLD! (and I have done this)
OH NO! My computer is keeping a log of ALL its activity and what I HAVE DONE!
OH NO! Everyone is blowing a god-damn cache file out of proportion!
It never ceases to amaze me how many people just immediately jump to nasty conclusions based on no evidence at all.
Apple has probably one of the most stellar records on privacy in the industry. Yet these same weenies will defend Google to the death when there are multiple, grievous, instances of Google intentionally doing exactly the kind of nefarious things that they are taking Apple to task for. The kind of things Apple has actually never done.
It shows you what's really happening here. It's just plain old irrational hatred of a market leader simply because they are successful. If any of these posters are above the age of 12 or so, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Yep, saying Bug... giggles. just makes me a google lovin Apple hatin fan..
... It has the same "feel" to it as the Google WiFi problem - something done at lower level and, in Google's case, an oversight. ...
It doesn't "feel" anything like Google's WiFi data collection, and it's not plausible that Google's WiFi data collection was an "oversight". (And the two are not analogous at all, in Google's case, they took information from people's homes, In Apple's case, they left information on your phone and computer.)
Ahem. There's a system called ABS that is used to track the IMEI number of a any phone. It also gives location details, time of the call, numbers dialled, etc. They could already track you before this file, they can track you now. Thats why privacy laws exist...
So, to anyone thinking this file is evil or needs to be removed because of privacy implications. SHUT UP and go scream at your service provider. They'll have everything you've ever done on your phone tucked away in a server, linked to your personal details in a database.
I can't believe I forgot about the IMEI number. Lets also not forget the IP address which can also locate people on a Map. Lovely.
Now that this file has clearly been shown to be harmless, lets move on, k?
Is it just me, or do others share my guess that most people who post stupid negative comments on this site do so after reading a few catch words that make them go nuts.
They never read the articles do they? Only make up their own scenario and opinion based on a single word taken out of context.
This is very uncomfortable. I'm probably like many on this forum routing for "our favorite company," but with Big Brother already in our lives - with all of us welcoming him with open arms via our insatiable appetite for more sophisticated iPhones, iPads & the like - should we be surprised? Remember how we bitched mightily about Microsoft wanting to conquer the world? I'm wondering if that's going to turn out to be small potatoes as Apple closes in on Exxon-Mobil to claim the top banana spot.
Comments
I know this:
When Google makes a mistake that involves privacy, folks here grab their pitchforks ready to storm the castle.
But when Apple makes a mistake that involves privacy, folks here stumble over each other to see who can apologize for them faster.
This forum is the embodiment of "double standard".
Here's the difference between this and Google's Street View WiFi network data collection. They were actually loading that data into their databases and, supposedly, no one ever noticed, each time it was loaded, that there was all this data there that they weren't supposed to be collecting. So, Google's assertion that it was "inadvertent" -- i.e., a mistake -- isn't really plausible. There's no way Google could not have known for years that it was collecting this data.
I know this:
When Google makes a mistake that involves privacy, folks here grab their pitchforks ready to storm the castle.
But when Apple makes a mistake that involves privacy, folks here stumble over each other to see who can apologize for them faster.
This forum is the embodiment of "double standard".
Amen.
This is obviously not a bug. Anyone who would even entertain the idea is just trying to protect their investment.
There is no way this is a bug. EVERY cell phone, smart or dumb, can track your location via at a minimum triangulation. If the phone isn't actively storing this information, then a database somewhere at the cell provider sure as heck is. Why? Number one reason is for the government. Number two would be for financial reasons such as targeted advertising on smart phones. If they know where you are, then an ad can pop open in your browser for a nearby business. Again, no way this is a bug. EVERY phone company is tracking you like it or not.
You're right in that user tracking can be performed, that's even mandatory in the US (E-911) and will be in many other countries.
BUT, the fact that operators store location information is just not true (why would they?). Lawful interception systems exist to find the location and monitor a particular user's location when the law enforcement agencies need to do so. Otherwise there is no point in doing it let alone waste money and resource in storing the location of your users.
For location base advertising, it's quite simple. You define advertising regions (say an airport) and define triggers that when a user enters the area, a message is sent.
The fact that AI would call this "feature" a bug is borderline silly fanboyism. It is quite clear as to why it stores this information (speeding up of location detection when user requests it). The only bug is that they didn't do a better job of hiding the data (by encryption for example).
Regs, Jarkko
Amen.
This is obviously not a bug. Anyone who would even entertain the idea is just trying to protect their investment.
Explain to me why would Apple keep this data on your iPhone after they already uploaded it to their server please?!
How many of you use the same password for AI as you do for at least one other site? How many of you have the same iTS password for another logon? How many of you have just a few select passwords you rotate or use in a hierarchy depending on how secure and honest you think the site is? Personally I use 1Password to generate complex unique passwords for ever logon. If one gets hacked server-side nothing else can be exposed. I also use a low-value CC for all online accounts and just pay it off weekly to keep my bank accounts separate from online retailers.
if you're a murdering rapist don't carry an iPhone with you. If you're a Dad, give one to your daughter just in case.
But you won?t know about their location until they bring it back home and sync it to iTunes. Even then you need access to that user account the iPhone backup resides and for that backup not to be encrypted via iTunes. Even if you then had access it?s just basic cell info and not very accurate compared to GPS.
It would be trivial for a criminal to delete their backups and restore their phone. It would also be trivial to grab your current GPS location for 911 calls and with warrants (which I hear is common place). For a father, AT&T has a paid service for getting GPS location of a device, not to mention MobileMe?s Find My iPhone service.
Yes, but a warrant is needed to access the cell phone company's records. It's not as accessible as an unencrypted file in your iTunes folder. And you can turn off Location Services to prevent sharing location information with advertisers.
Wait, are you saying you are more comfortable with your location data being gathered and stored by a phone company than with that data being stored on a phone and computer which YOU personally own and control?
By your standard, you should trust companies like Amazon to store your personal information & credit card info because you know, you shouldn't trust yourself with your credit cards and government issue ID card in your wallet. Its not encrypted. The need for a court order will stop hackers from obtaining this data from the phone company; just ask T-Mobile
As I said earlier, I don't believe that any senior management at Apple knew about or approved this. It's just not the sort of thing that fits with all the other things they do. It has the same "feel" to it as the Google WiFi problem - something done at lower level and, in Google's case, an oversight.
I think that the same is likely here also. As John Gruber put it - it's a bug. It's only supposed to keep the last location or two - not the whole list.
Fail
OH NO! My web browser is keeping a cache of my browsing history AND my passwords!
OH NO! Google is using my PERSONAL INFORMATION to advertise stuff to me!
OH NO! My Apache installation is keeping a log of people who access it and it gives me their IP Addresses so I can PINPOINT THEM ON A MAP OF THE WORLD! (and I have done this)
OH NO! My computer is keeping a log of ALL its activity and what I HAVE DONE!
OH NO! Everyone is blowing a god-damn cache file out of proportion!
Does anyone know whether this is true of the Verizon iPhone? I can't get the iPhone Tracker program to find consolidated.db.
It will look for the file in your iTunes backup file from the iPhone. No backup or encrypted backup means no file (or no file found)
It never ceases to amaze me how many people just immediately jump to nasty conclusions based on no evidence at all.
Apple has probably one of the most stellar records on privacy in the industry. Yet these same weenies will defend Google to the death when there are multiple, grievous, instances of Google intentionally doing exactly the kind of nefarious things that they are taking Apple to task for. The kind of things Apple has actually never done.
It shows you what's really happening here. It's just plain old irrational hatred of a market leader simply because they are successful. If any of these posters are above the age of 12 or so, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Yep, saying Bug... giggles. just makes me a google lovin Apple hatin fan..
Thanks for the quote
... It has the same "feel" to it as the Google WiFi problem - something done at lower level and, in Google's case, an oversight. ...
It doesn't "feel" anything like Google's WiFi data collection, and it's not plausible that Google's WiFi data collection was an "oversight". (And the two are not analogous at all, in Google's case, they took information from people's homes, In Apple's case, they left information on your phone and computer.)
So, to anyone thinking this file is evil or needs to be removed because of privacy implications. SHUT UP and go scream at your service provider. They'll have everything you've ever done on your phone tucked away in a server, linked to your personal details in a database.
I can't believe I forgot about the IMEI number. Lets also not forget the IP address which can also locate people on a Map. Lovely.
Now that this file has clearly been shown to be harmless, lets move on, k?
They never read the articles do they? Only make up their own scenario and opinion based on a single word taken out of context.
I guess that is what bugs me.