When GM went bankrupt, they were still selling millions and millions of vehicles....
Ah bancruptcy...
It can be a dirty ploy to avoid liability for a time. But look at GM now - it is back on its feet, outgrossing the other manufacturers in sales in the US. RIM's reduced revenue should go along reduced fixed operating expenses. If they are still selling over 10M a quarter it means they are still relevant for the simple reason that 10M means a loss in real revenue for other competing brands. That's a lot.
Agreed! Easy to copy the form factor of the iPhone and iPad, but to deliver the quality software needed to provide an ecosystem across platforms and equipment seems impossible for other companies to replicate.
An iMac, TimeCapsule, iP4, iPad2 (wifi) and an AppleTV and one is good to go. You could even forgo the iMac and get an MBA and you have the whole Apple "ecosystem" for about $3K. May be a little more.
So 5 pieces of Apple gear and an HDTV flat screen and that's just about all the tech gadgetry one would need. Maybe an SLR as a hobby!
I've sold each of my last 3 iPhones and it has pretty much been a wash to buy the iP4. I sold my 4 year MB for $300. Paid $1,200 so a net of $900 or >$20/mo. Same with my old AppleTV; about $6/mo. And...well, you get the idea. A part from the upfront cost I spend less per month on Apple products than I do on beer and the occasional movie!
C'mon you guys. Crossing 13M in sales for a quarter is still not a bad thing. It's not like RIM has gone 15M to zero in sales. RIM can easily top Moto, HTC and even Samsung and LG when quarterly results are tallied.
I hope RIM continue to be an independent company not like Nokia, just so it can help level the playing field with their non-Android or non-Windows brand.
The thing is, when a big company starts falling, and falling fast, it becomes more & more difficult to bring that fall to a stop. It's like falling off a cliff... if someone catches you just as you start to go, it doesn't take much to pull you back. If you fall 100 feet and then someone tries to catch you, well, good luck with that.
C'mon you guys. Crossing 13M in sales for a quarter is still not a bad thing. It's not like RIM has gone 15M to zero in sales. RIM can easily top Moto, HTC and even Samsung and LG when quarterly results are tallied.
I hope RIM continue to be an independent company not like Nokia, just so it can help level the playing field with their non-Android or non-Windows brand.
It?s not about getting no sales or sales compared to a competitor, it?s about comparison to previous successes. YoY sales is one thing shareholders should look for because it can help them determine likely trends of the company for their investments.
I don?t think many are claiming RiM (or even Nokia or Dell) are dead or that they have absolutely no chance to rebound. Just look at Apple?s low point with an old OS foundation, a decade of poor management and products, a near nonexistent mindshare that assumed that MS was and always would be on top, and a market cap of only $5 billion. A few right decisions can change the entire landscape.
These companies (not just RiM) that failed to evolve with market still have a chance, but a long shot isn?t going to keep investors happy, hence the drop in the stock.
The only thing going for Blackberrys is their BBM 'instant message' which is free, many teenagers, college and university folk are buying them for that one feature,.. it is reported that IM will kill SMS texting,.. so hopefully Apple can include this in their next iOS
I'd disagree with with the very premise of this post. Apple doesn't need any 'opportunities' due to weaknesses in RIM. Apple is doing just fine what ever RIM does or doesn't do. In fact Apple is the the largest reason RIM is up sh*t creek without a paddle.
C'mon you guys. Crossing 13M in sales for a quarter is still not a bad thing. It's not like RIM has gone 15M to zero in sales. RIM can easily top Moto, HTC and even Samsung and LG when quarterly results are tallied.
I hope RIM continue to be an independent company not like Nokia, just so it can help level the playing field with their non-Android or non-Windows brand.
and when a competitor goes from 0 sales to an installed base of over 100 million in 4 years it's not a good sign for your business either
Let's see. Palm controlled their own destiny by designing and building their smartphones' hardware and software. But many factors, some out of their control, caused them to crash and burn. It didn't help that, and at the end, they wasted millions on a failed pre-netbook called Foleo.
RIM also controls their own destiny. They build and design their own hardware and software. And they too wasted millions on a mobile device. But more importantly, while they were wasting time and money on Playbook, they weren't improving BlackBerry OS or their hardware or their infrastructure enough to keep up with Apple. Good luck with the crash and burn thing there, eh.
I wonder if HP wants to hedge their bets by buying a company know for its Chiclet keyboard smartphones...
I remember when the iPhone came out, and it started to build market share, there were a lot of heated posts about the relative viability of Nokia, RIM and MS.
The argument was generally that all of those devices "already did" most of the what the iPhone could do, albeit in a bare bones way (which was good, since Apple was obviously just selling "eye candy" for stupid people), and that the iPhone was just a drop in the bucket compared to the vast installed base and quarterly sales of those behemoths.
It's startling to see how quickly Apple and the iPhone have totally disrupted the entire mobile industry, to the point that several of the biggest incumbents are actually in danger of becoming completely irrelevant, if not becoming a radically reduced shell of their former selves.
And sure, you can claim that Android has as much to do with this a iOS, but the plain fact is without the iPhone Android was never going to take the form it ultimately has, and would have been just another so-so smartphone with much less to distinguish it from Nokia, MS or RIM.
RIMM really serves no purpose anymore in the 21st Century.
Until other handset manufacturers get widespread full military grade encryption, yes they do. Don't get me wrong, I think they are crapping out too, but they still have a niche.
I remember when the iPhone came out, and it started to build market share, there were a lot of heated posts about the relative viability of Nokia, RIM and MS.
The argument was generally that all of those devices "already did" most of the what the iPhone could do, albeit in a bare bones way (which was good, since Apple was obviously just selling "eye candy" for stupid people), and that the iPhone was just a drop in the bucket compared to the vast installed base and quarterly sales of those behemoths.
It's startling to see how quickly Apple and the iPhone have totally disrupted the entire mobile industry, to the point that several of the biggest incumbents are actually in danger of becoming completely irrelevant, if not becoming a radically reduced shell of their former selves.
And you know what has these people even more panicked and petrified? The fact that Apple is just getting started in this business: with less than 5% of global handset sales, Apple's growth opportunities are simply mind-boggling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
And sure, you can claim that Android has as much to do with this a iOS, but the plain fact is without the iPhone Android was never going to take the form it ultimately has, and would have been just another so-so smartphone with much less to distinguish it from Nokia, MS or RIM.
It can be a dirty ploy to avoid liability for a time. But look at GM now - it is back on its feet, outgrossing the other manufacturers in sales in the US. RIM's reduced revenue should go along reduced fixed operating expenses. If they are still selling over 10M a quarter it means they are still relevant for the simple reason that 10M means a loss in real revenue for other competing brands. That's a lot.
GM would be dead now were it not for it being effectively bailed out by the US Treasury ie US Government.
The Canadian Government haven't bailed out Nortel and I don't see them bailing out RIM.
The world can live without a one trick pony mobile company that's already flogged its horse to death.
GM would be dead now were it not for it being effectively bailed out by the US Treasury ie US Government.
The Canadian Government haven't bailed out Nortel and I don't see them bailing out RIM.
The world can live without a one trick pony mobile company that's already flogged its horse to death.
It's way too early to call out RIM when they still manage to push at least 10M units to end consumers. Nortel is a bad comparison since they it was not pushing a consumer product.
C'mon you guys. Crossing 13M in sales for a quarter is still not a bad thing. It's not like RIM has gone 15M to zero in sales. RIM can easily top Moto, HTC and even Samsung and LG when quarterly results are tallied.
I hope RIM continue to be an independent company not like Nokia, just so it can help level the playing field with their non-Android or non-Windows brand.
I suspect that the reason that RIM did the preannouncement was that even 13million is a pipe dream. I'd lay odds that their number for the quarter is less than 10million; over in the UK, they're struggling to give them away
I think RIM has two ways to slow down the fall or even turn it around.
1. Attempt to sell to a larger company like apple. The implications their will be great Apple can ensure the Enterprise market and get its hands on BBM in all it could be a huge success for apple to Buy it.
2. They start producing android or windows phone 7 handsets. Here it would keep them in business they will continue to sell phones. They can also sell their phones with packaged Black Berry apps such as BBM, enterprise email and various other programs. This will set them apart from the other android phones and making them also still look good to their current users. It would also maintain for the most part the very valuable enterprise market.
Comments
Means nothing.
When GM went bankrupt, they were still selling millions and millions of vehicles....
Ah bancruptcy...
It can be a dirty ploy to avoid liability for a time. But look at GM now - it is back on its feet, outgrossing the other manufacturers in sales in the US. RIM's reduced revenue should go along reduced fixed operating expenses. If they are still selling over 10M a quarter it means they are still relevant for the simple reason that 10M means a loss in real revenue for other competing brands. That's a lot.
It's not the hardware, it's the ecosystem.
Agreed! Easy to copy the form factor of the iPhone and iPad, but to deliver the quality software needed to provide an ecosystem across platforms and equipment seems impossible for other companies to replicate.
An iMac, TimeCapsule, iP4, iPad2 (wifi) and an AppleTV and one is good to go. You could even forgo the iMac and get an MBA and you have the whole Apple "ecosystem" for about $3K. May be a little more.
So 5 pieces of Apple gear and an HDTV flat screen and that's just about all the tech gadgetry one would need. Maybe an SLR as a hobby!
I've sold each of my last 3 iPhones and it has pretty much been a wash to buy the iP4. I sold my 4 year MB for $300. Paid $1,200 so a net of $900 or >$20/mo. Same with my old AppleTV; about $6/mo. And...well, you get the idea. A part from the upfront cost I spend less per month on Apple products than I do on beer and the occasional movie!
Anyway, Best
C'mon you guys. Crossing 13M in sales for a quarter is still not a bad thing. It's not like RIM has gone 15M to zero in sales. RIM can easily top Moto, HTC and even Samsung and LG when quarterly results are tallied.
I hope RIM continue to be an independent company not like Nokia, just so it can help level the playing field with their non-Android or non-Windows brand.
The thing is, when a big company starts falling, and falling fast, it becomes more & more difficult to bring that fall to a stop. It's like falling off a cliff... if someone catches you just as you start to go, it doesn't take much to pull you back. If you fall 100 feet and then someone tries to catch you, well, good luck with that.
C'mon you guys. Crossing 13M in sales for a quarter is still not a bad thing. It's not like RIM has gone 15M to zero in sales. RIM can easily top Moto, HTC and even Samsung and LG when quarterly results are tallied.
I hope RIM continue to be an independent company not like Nokia, just so it can help level the playing field with their non-Android or non-Windows brand.
It?s not about getting no sales or sales compared to a competitor, it?s about comparison to previous successes. YoY sales is one thing shareholders should look for because it can help them determine likely trends of the company for their investments.
I don?t think many are claiming RiM (or even Nokia or Dell) are dead or that they have absolutely no chance to rebound. Just look at Apple?s low point with an old OS foundation, a decade of poor management and products, a near nonexistent mindshare that assumed that MS was and always would be on top, and a market cap of only $5 billion. A few right decisions can change the entire landscape.
These companies (not just RiM) that failed to evolve with market still have a chance, but a long shot isn?t going to keep investors happy, hence the drop in the stock.
C'mon you guys. Crossing 13M in sales for a quarter is still not a bad thing. It's not like RIM has gone 15M to zero in sales. RIM can easily top Moto, HTC and even Samsung and LG when quarterly results are tallied.
I hope RIM continue to be an independent company not like Nokia, just so it can help level the playing field with their non-Android or non-Windows brand.
and when a competitor goes from 0 sales to an installed base of over 100 million in 4 years it's not a good sign for your business either
You can try out a hundred and one different form factors and you'll still fall flat on your face each time if that's all you're bringing to the table.
It's not the hardware, it's the ecosystem.
Right on!
RIM also controls their own destiny. They build and design their own hardware and software. And they too wasted millions on a mobile device. But more importantly, while they were wasting time and money on Playbook, they weren't improving BlackBerry OS or their hardware or their infrastructure enough to keep up with Apple. Good luck with the crash and burn thing there, eh.
I wonder if HP wants to hedge their bets by buying a company know for its Chiclet keyboard smartphones...
The argument was generally that all of those devices "already did" most of the what the iPhone could do, albeit in a bare bones way (which was good, since Apple was obviously just selling "eye candy" for stupid people), and that the iPhone was just a drop in the bucket compared to the vast installed base and quarterly sales of those behemoths.
It's startling to see how quickly Apple and the iPhone have totally disrupted the entire mobile industry, to the point that several of the biggest incumbents are actually in danger of becoming completely irrelevant, if not becoming a radically reduced shell of their former selves.
And sure, you can claim that Android has as much to do with this a iOS, but the plain fact is without the iPhone Android was never going to take the form it ultimately has, and would have been just another so-so smartphone with much less to distinguish it from Nokia, MS or RIM.
RIMM really serves no purpose anymore in the 21st Century.
Until other handset manufacturers get widespread full military grade encryption, yes they do. Don't get me wrong, I think they are crapping out too, but they still have a niche.
I remember when the iPhone came out, and it started to build market share, there were a lot of heated posts about the relative viability of Nokia, RIM and MS.
The argument was generally that all of those devices "already did" most of the what the iPhone could do, albeit in a bare bones way (which was good, since Apple was obviously just selling "eye candy" for stupid people), and that the iPhone was just a drop in the bucket compared to the vast installed base and quarterly sales of those behemoths.
It's startling to see how quickly Apple and the iPhone have totally disrupted the entire mobile industry, to the point that several of the biggest incumbents are actually in danger of becoming completely irrelevant, if not becoming a radically reduced shell of their former selves.
And you know what has these people even more panicked and petrified? The fact that Apple is just getting started in this business: with less than 5% of global handset sales, Apple's growth opportunities are simply mind-boggling.
And sure, you can claim that Android has as much to do with this a iOS, but the plain fact is without the iPhone Android was never going to take the form it ultimately has, and would have been just another so-so smartphone with much less to distinguish it from Nokia, MS or RIM.
Android-schmandroid. There'll always be PCs too.
Ah bancruptcy...
It can be a dirty ploy to avoid liability for a time. But look at GM now - it is back on its feet, outgrossing the other manufacturers in sales in the US. RIM's reduced revenue should go along reduced fixed operating expenses. If they are still selling over 10M a quarter it means they are still relevant for the simple reason that 10M means a loss in real revenue for other competing brands. That's a lot.
GM would be dead now were it not for it being effectively bailed out by the US Treasury ie US Government.
The Canadian Government haven't bailed out Nortel and I don't see them bailing out RIM.
The world can live without a one trick pony mobile company that's already flogged its horse to death.
GM would be dead now were it not for it being effectively bailed out by the US Treasury ie US Government.
The Canadian Government haven't bailed out Nortel and I don't see them bailing out RIM.
The world can live without a one trick pony mobile company that's already flogged its horse to death.
It's way too early to call out RIM when they still manage to push at least 10M units to end consumers. Nortel is a bad comparison since they it was not pushing a consumer product.
C'mon you guys. Crossing 13M in sales for a quarter is still not a bad thing. It's not like RIM has gone 15M to zero in sales. RIM can easily top Moto, HTC and even Samsung and LG when quarterly results are tallied.
I hope RIM continue to be an independent company not like Nokia, just so it can help level the playing field with their non-Android or non-Windows brand.
I suspect that the reason that RIM did the preannouncement was that even 13million is a pipe dream. I'd lay odds that their number for the quarter is less than 10million; over in the UK, they're struggling to give them away
1. Attempt to sell to a larger company like apple. The implications their will be great Apple can ensure the Enterprise market and get its hands on BBM in all it could be a huge success for apple to Buy it.
2. They start producing android or windows phone 7 handsets. Here it would keep them in business they will continue to sell phones. They can also sell their phones with packaged Black Berry apps such as BBM, enterprise email and various other programs. This will set them apart from the other android phones and making them also still look good to their current users. It would also maintain for the most part the very valuable enterprise market.