Google sets sights on enterprise, education with subscription 'Chromebooks'

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  • Reply 41 of 372
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tjw View Post


    Because an iPad is so brilliant for office applications and collaboration through web apps....



    The difference here is that for a work horse machine a chromebook can replace a laptop an iPad is not even close to doing that.



    The same could be said about non-chrome netbooks. Ask Acer how that has worked out.
  • Reply 42 of 372
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by esummers View Post


    I don't think the subscription model has ever worked for computers.



    Every major corporation I?ve worked for leased most of their PCs. It?s not necessarily cheaper, but they get to outsource the repair and replacement and get to alter their unit numbers without incurring high up front cost which makes a big difference to managers trying to balance a budget for the quarter or the year.
  • Reply 43 of 372
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    Many such projects may fizzle. If the life expectancy for one of these laptops is 2 yrs it will cost close to $500.-. A wifi iPad with educational discount should match that if paid on a monthly basis (at the end of which the machine will still have value). Given the choice I cannot see why anyone would not choose the iPad.



    Not 'many'... its 'most' Google projects fizzle.

    The eternal beta company.
  • Reply 44 of 372
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,778member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I think Chrome OS brilliant. It’s not any more powerful than a netbook but it feel faster for the tasks it’s designed for and it’s tricking the consumer that it will run resource heavy apps simply because it’s running the resource heavy Windows OS. It also has a full size keyboard and trackpad.



    It’s WebOS on a desktop in that it’s a WebKit-based OS. it doesn’t mean you have to be connected to the internet for it to be useful but understands that PC users typically have routine, in not constant, web access.



    I’ve been a fan of this since before it was ever announced. Assuming the HW is good enough and the result is as stable as Chrome browser on Mac OS I’ll be recommending these machines to people I know that want more than a tablet, don’t want to pay for a Mac, and don’t need the complexity and utility of Mac OS and Windows just for getting online for basic web browsing and email.



    Also, I see Chrome OS being huge in developing countries where these can be sold or rented from ISPs, telcos, cable and other companies at reduced prices for service to help get a huge portion of the world online where before they had no real options. I don’t see the iPad or Mac doing that.



    This has the opportunity to wear away at Windows marketshare in a way that Mac OS could never do simply because it’s a premium product. This is a good thing!



    Apple could make a low cost iPad (iPad 1?) for developing countries and schools that web browses and does mail that doesn't need a keyboard and is therefor easier to use with any language. The entire keyboard concept is obsolete especially in these simple usage requirement areas.



    BTW Which will last longer in hands of a younger child, an iPad or a small laptop with a keyboard? Which is proven more intuitive to use for a child...?
  • Reply 45 of 372
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jdhayes117 View Post


    All out of the goodness of their little black hearts...



    The idea is fine although limited in capability because it all relies on a limited bandwidth limited data capacity pipe. The question is, are you willing to sell your soul to google (whether you consciously acknowledge it or not...)? Again, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Where is google going to extract it's pound of flesh? How does google make this attractive to google's shareholders?



    1) Most CIOs at large organizations (private or public sector) don't have concerns about individual user data (you cannot assume that what you do at work is entirely private). Nor are they as paranoid as half the folks on this forum.



    2) A lot of large organizations are already using Google Apps. This is a natural extension of that policy.
  • Reply 46 of 372
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Every major corporation I?ve worked for leased most of their PCs. It?s not necessarily cheaper, but they get to outsource the repair and replacement and get to alter their unit numbers without incurring high up front cost which makes a big difference to managers trying to balance a budget for the quarter or the year.



    +1



    A lot of companies already do this.



    Some people here have no understanding of capital budgets, return on capital, etc.



    This is a CIO's dream. $28/mo and everything is taken care off. Vs. having to map out a plan with a high up front capital cost for IT upgrades and having to incur the ongoing costs for software and hardware support.
  • Reply 47 of 372
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post


    Schools aren't just going to switch over. That costs a ton of money and training. When administrators realize how little features are available to them, they won't consider it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    I'd argue that schools will switch over, precisely because they'll figure out they've been buying computing power they don't need. Why does a high school or elementary student or even a non-science/engineering college student need a laptop with the latest processor, graphics card and stuffed to the gills with RAM?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post




    For schools they can rent these for 9 months of the year and don?t have to buy any additional components to make them work. Students can type reports on these things and they can use it for listening to music, downloading files, and even reading/copying files from/to a HDD via USB. The iPad can?t do that and therefore wouldn?t be a suitable replacement for such activities.



    But I ask why are people comparing this to the iPad or Apple? Why aren?t you looking at its intended target, cheap as Windows machines where Apple doesn?t play. We can?t assume that a poor family in a poor country should get an iPad over renting a computer on the cheap from their ISP. The emerging market arena is vast and this has great potential. I want the whole world connected but that isn?t going to happen with a premium product.



    Remember, WebOS is pretty much the same thing for a smartphone. It?s a Linux kernel with an OS UI made from WebKit.





    PS: I?ve been a fan of Chrome OS since the beginning. I hoped that Google?s I/O on it today would get more posters here seeing what I see but i guess we?ll have to wait another day on that.





    I trying not to be obtuse here...



    But, I see the ChromeBook as a dumbed-down netbook.





    Last century, when I owned the computer stores, we sold a lot of computers and networks into education, from elementary thru colleges.



    It takes a concerted effort to sell and support this environment... especially now with WiFi and/or back room servers.



    Schools don't have much flexibility on what they can buy -- in CA, the schools often get money to spend on physical plant -- but none for teachers and supplies.



    I do not believe that districts will be willing to replace already-paid-for computers with $20-per-month-forever plans... just my opinion.





    Is there somewhere I can download the Chrome OS package to run on a Mac or Parallels PC so that I can see what it is and what it isn't?



    Maybe then, I can make an informed opinion.





    BTW, There is a live-blog of Google i/O at:



    I/O Live
  • Reply 48 of 372
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    Apple could make a low cost iPad (iPad 1?) for developing countries and schools that web browses and does mail that doesn't need a keyboard and is therefor easier to use with any language. The entire keyboard concept is obsolete especially in these simple usage requirement areas.



    BTW Which will last longer in hands of a younger child, an iPad or a small laptop with a keyboard? Which is proven more intuitive to use for a child...?



    1) You're assuming these laptops are going to grade schoolers in the lowest grades. They aren't. Pre-teens maybe. But that's as low as it will go.



    2) Unless that iPad is half the cost of the current version, the high up front capital cost will still not be worthwhile. Google is offering a continuous IT management program in essence. $20/$28 per month and Google takes care of all your IT hardware and software needs. Think of it like a high school contracting with their local Apple store to take care of IT for every student. That's the equivalent.



    3) Keyboards are outdated? Have you ever written anything more than a page long in a single sitting? Heck, even Apple acknowledges that you need a keyboard for productivity (keyboard dock).
  • Reply 49 of 372
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    Apple could make a low cost iPad (iPad 1?) for developing countries and schools that web browses and does mail that doesn't need a keyboard and is therefor easier to use with any language. The entire keyboard concept is obsolete especially in these simple usage requirement areas.



    BTW Which will last longer in hands of a younger child, an iPad or a small laptop with a keyboard? Which is proven more intuitive to use for a child...?



    I think you?re trying to force the iPad into a role designed for a cheap commodity PC. Sure, Apple can make the iPad cheaper. They could also release a Mac using Atom CPUs or create a Safari OS based on Darwin. I don?t see any of that happening.



    If you want Windows market share to shrink quicklime right? Well Chrome OS is the best solution I?ve seen for making that a reality.
  • Reply 50 of 372
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    The entire keyboard concept is obsolete especially in these simple usage requirement areas.



    Sorry can't agree with that at all. iPad even has an optional keyboard, which would be necessary to do any serious text input. I cannot see school children trying to type using the on screen keyboard while the device is lying flat on a desk or on their laps. Terrible ergonomics. The on screen keyboard has no tactile feedback and you need to look at the keyboard to use it. Having an entire generation that can only type with their thumbs is an awful idea.
  • Reply 51 of 372
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    1) Most CIOs at large organizations (private or public sector) don't have concerns about individual user data (you cannot assume that what you do at work is entirely private). Nor are they as paranoid as half the folks on this forum.



    2) A lot of large organizations are already using Google Apps. This is a natural extension of that policy.



    Then a lot of company business is being looked at by google.



    The issue isn't paranoia, it's privacy. Companies like Apple, Microsoft, HP, etc, make their money buy selling hardware or software. google makes it's money by collecting and selling your personal information. (see my earlier post). If everyone said "No" to google's data collection efforts (and if google actually didn't collect as you requested...), they'd go broke.
  • Reply 52 of 372
    h2ph2p Posts: 331member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guch20 View Post


    Jesus, Google is going after schools now too? They're just attacking Apple on all fronts and with their momentum, I don't see how they can be stopped.



    Please, no need to be fearful. We are more likely to see Google as staying dependent on the crutch of the internet. So, if I understand correctly, ChromeOS uses cloud-based product.



    Licensing the OS/hardware is a great way for them to make money... and as others have said, this is good for schools. But, isn't the network speed/bandwidth the limiter?



    Either way, the absolute reliance on the internet is a major-minus for me.
  • Reply 53 of 372
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I trying not to be obtuse here...



    But, I see the ChromeBook as a dumbed-down netbook.



    That sounds just like the people that said the iPad would fail because it’s just a dumbed down netbook that didn’t even have a real OS.



    Think about what a netbook is. Look at the OS. Look at the HW it’s running on. Now think about how and why the iPad is better than a netbook. Now think about how an OS built from the ground up for this HW can run so smoothly and feel so fast… now apply that to Chrome OS which is doing the same thing.



    Quote:

    I do not believe that districts will be willing to replace already-paid-for computers with $20-per-month-forever plans... just my opinion.



    This is also just like arguments against the iPad. No one sold their PC to buy an iPad. No one is dumping their current perfectly working PCs to invest in Chrome OS PCs, but those Windows and Mac PCs will have to be replaced and for the price and utility Chrome OS notebooks are looking pretty good.





    edit: Another example: Think of a college. Think of how many PCs they have throughout the campus. Not notebooks, but desktops. Desktops in the library for students to use for research. Desktops in the admin building for students to use for registering for class. ow think about how much power those machines use. Think about how they are usually locked down to just the web browser. They don’t have to rent these. They don’t have to let an outside company service them or use their online services. Now think of the cost savings per year for the Chrome OS desktop boxes that sip power and cost a fraction of the desktop computers they will eventually replace.
  • Reply 54 of 372
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Schools don't have much flexibility on what they can buy -- in CA, the schools often get money to spend on physical plant -- but none for teachers and supplies.



    And as capital budgets get squeezed, being able to book $20/mo as an operating expense becomes a big plus.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I do not believe that districts will be willing to replace already-paid-for computers with $20-per-month-forever plans... just my opinion.



    Who says they'll rush out and do it tomorrow? But schools do have to upgrade their computers some time. And when they do, $20/mo vs. $500 up front, per student, is going to look awfully attractive to most bookeepers.



    And again keep in mind the ease of managing all this. No virus software. No MS Office. You can set controls on what the kids access. No data loss if the kid (or teacher) breaks the computer. They just replace the unit. And no serious training needed. As Solipsism pointed out, how much training do you need to use a web browser?



    People are overanalyzing this. This is not meant to be a seriously powerful OS contender. There's Windows and OS X for that. Kinda like how the iPad is good for most day-to-day computing needs, this will be good for most day-to-day productive needs for certain audiences.



    Edit: There's a lot of focus on Google's rental model for Chromebooks. But there are options to buy as well. Organizations will simply have to decide on whether to rent or buy based on the circumstances and usage.
  • Reply 55 of 372
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jdhayes117 View Post


    If everyone said "No" to google's data collection efforts (and if google actually didn't collect as you requested...), they'd go broke.



    And till there are actually enough users willing to pony up for an ad free service, this point is at best...."meh"



    Lots of people love to bark up the privacy tree. But how many of those people are sincerely willing to shell out for services (and there are alternatives) to protect that privacy? I'd say, you'd be at 1-2% of the general population, at best. If there was sincere demand for it, some entrepreneur would have made a solid business case and good money out of offering an alternative.



    When it comes to the topic at hand though, this product is mostly aimed at institutions. And as far as your privacy goes on an institutionally owned piece of hardware, you should have no expectiation of any. So does it really matter whether Google or some the institution has your data?



    I'd suggest that if this is a big concern, simply negotiate the use of an alternative platform or keep your Chromebook strictly business and separate personal and professional use.
  • Reply 56 of 372
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I trying not to be obtuse here...



    But, I see the ChromeBook as a dumbed-down netbook.



    Is there somewhere I can download the Chrome OS package to run on a Mac or Parallels PC so that I can see what it is and what it isn't?



    Maybe then, I can make an informed opinion.



    Here it is. You'll have to use Parallels tho.



    http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en...&utm_medium=ha
  • Reply 57 of 372
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    OK!



    Several posters here are supportive of the Chrome OS and the ChromeBook.



    I don't see it... yet!





    Do you guys promoting the concept have some actual "hands-on" experience?



    If so, where can I get some?





    Help me see the light!
  • Reply 58 of 372
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    I do like the idea of a striped down iPad to compete (just toss in the keyboard dock). And with Apple's retail network, Apple could easily do the same for schools. However, they would have to put forward the same kind of subscription model and same kind of service model (manage everything) to be competitive.
  • Reply 59 of 372
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    OK!



    Several posters here are supportive of the Chrome OS and the ChromeBook.



    I don't see it... yet!





    Do you guys promoting the concept have some actual "hands-on" experience?



    If so, where can I get some?





    Help me see the light!



    It's just launched. Obviously we don't have first hand experience. But some of us can use logic to see how things would work. And there have been more than enough demos out there to form an informed opinion. And really....it's a freaking web browser. It'll run like Chrome on your desktop.



    Tell me, did you think the iPad was going to be a hit before you got your hands on one?

    If you did, why would you suggest that this can't be successful without trying it out?
  • Reply 60 of 372
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    edit: Another example: Think of a college. Think of how many PCs they have throughout the campus. Not notebooks, but desktops. Desktops in the library for students to use for research. Desktops in the admin building for students to use for registering for class. ow think about how much power those machines use. Think about how they are usually locked down to just the web browser. They don?t have to rent these. They don?t have to let an outside company service them or use their online services. Now think of the cost savings per year for the Chrome OS desktop boxes that sip power and cost a fraction of the desktop computers they will eventually replace.



    Exactly. And for those situations, there's this:



    http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/11/g...#disqus_thread
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