Coming from someone that doesn't own an iMac, this completely doesn't make sense. The SATA power connector connects straight to the power supply on normal computers. Does it split the wires? How would it get information from a power port? It would make sense if they use additional pins on the SATA data connector, but not the power connector. Am I missing something?
You are right. The OWC report is misleading and incomplete. I replaced the 7 wire connector with a plain 4 wire y-splitter sata and the system works just fine with normal fan speeds and AHT successfully. The new iMacs don't get the temperature readings from the power connector.
The reason I think they used 7 wires instead of 5 is because they wires themselves are really thin so it would make sense to double the 12V and 5V lines just as the SATA power connector has 3 pins allocated for each wire that comes in.
Hell, forget about upgrading - what about replacing the HD? I had to replace mine after about 2 years. The new Hitachi 1TB drive to replace the original WD 500GB cost about a hundred bucks, and it took me about an hour to do it myself (working slowly and being carful).
Hard drives will always fail eventually. We need to be able to replace them when they do.
Thanks Apple for giving me another reason not to upgrade my iMac. Having the drive hard to reach is bad enough. Having it non-standard is even worse. The iMac is becoming something you have to throw away when anything breaks.
Ah, bless you for believing every bit of FUD that is spread. The report is incorrect, the imac is sold as a sealed unit, with the only user upgradeable component being the RAM. Opening the machine invalidates your warranty. Furthermore the SATA connection is standard.
So a machine which is not sold as having a user replaceable hard drive actually is upgradeable with a bit if technical know how. This is not a story.
Yes, if the machine breaks you have to send it for repair. What's so unusual about that?
So much crud is posted in these forums it's almost laughable.
Someone posts some crap with no evidence and you're all ready to believe it, with no supporting evidence or first hand experience? Laughable.
While we're at it - mac's can't run Microsoft software, they're only for designers and are more expensive than windows machines with the same performance...
I knew I bought my last Mac Pro a few years ago... but always thought the iMac would be around as an option.
The environmental impact of this alone should make Apple completely ashamed.
I replace HDD's for people all the time (as it's the main reason older systems fail). People aren't going to fork over laughable extortionist prices for a HDD. It will be like when a logic board fails... just throw the whole machine away.
Apple is pushing out their ethical investors faster then predicted.
Consumerism is a sickness - not something to be celebrated and base an economy on.
Success based on the size of our landfills.
Read the article. Your pst is pointless. What environmental impact? Nonsense based on fallacy.
While we're at it - mac's can't run Microsoft software, they're only for designers and are more expensive than windows machines with the same performance...
I currently don't own a Mac anymore, but this bit of misinformation has always irked me. People don't see how much better made they are and the fact that OS upgrades are so dirt cheap. Macs are worth every penny of their price. I've been itching for a laptop, and I've been shopping both PC's and Macs. I just cringe whenever a PC is even close to a Mac in price, as I think to myself that I could get Apple quality at those prices and be happier. If a PC even comes close to a Mac price, I'd go Mac any day. I'll probably be getting one for my next computer purchase, finally, after 10 years since I turned off my last one for good.
Anyway, that's completely off topic. I suggest people take a wait and see approach. It could be a complete bunch of crap from someone trying to slam the Mac. There are plenty of those out there...
This iMac design has existed since October 2009 and has had restrictions (or obstacles at least) in place from day 1. Same with the mid-2010 refresh. While I love the design, I miss my SSD's and being able to make upgrades to MY machine. Not only will I not spend the ridiculous amounts of money that Apple wants for their SUB-par SSD's, but I want to be the one who makes the choice as to what SSD(s) go(es) into my machine.
As I noted, not all SSD's are created equal and Apple has been using Toshiba ones both in the iMac and the MacBook Air, although they recently switched to significantly faster Samsung SSD's, at least on the Air.
I'm about to buy another 27-incher of these next-gen iMac's and after going through THREE (3) bad iMac's (2 of them had bad screens and in one, the audio out jack didn't work right). Needless to say, I've come to know the various hard drives they use in all of them. First of all, it doesn't matter if you're getting a 21.5" or 27". You'll get either a Seagate or a WDC for a 1TB and a Hitachi if you choose a 2TB. The one you want is the Western Digital, the Caviar Black to be exact. By contrast, the Seagate (Barracuda ST31000...AS(Q) drives are LOUD, whereas the WDC 1TB's are virtually completely SILENT and run incredibly well. The difference is not only noticeable but very significant. As soon as I have a buyer for my current iMac, I'm heading straight to the store. I already warned them when I was there to swap out my iPad 2 for a THIRD one. My bad for ordering online instead of going into a store.
Having said all of this, my iMac that I bought last July is on 24/7, literally, and it's seeing a LOT of use and it performs superbly. I love it. So did my iPad 1 and so does my iPad 2, but sometimes, it looks like there is some pain involved at the time of obtaining the actual product.
I got them good for every time they made me come back for another iMac but this time, I think I will just open it up, take the damn thing out of the box inside the store, have them plug it in and take out my microscope so as to actively try to find something. ANYTHING. And if I find so much as one bad pixel on the very end of the screen, they will go back and get the next out. Once the screen passes MY standard for perfection, I'll try every other component that I CAN inside the store, ther most important of which will be the hard drive. I won't jump through these hoops again where I find out after unpacking my iMac, setting it up, configuring it only to find something wrong with it in the process, such as an imperfection in the screen or a loud hard drive. They're going to bring out one after another until I see the letters WDC in System Profiler on a crystal clear, immaculate and flawless 27" screen, and when I get the thing home I had better be able to hear a pin drop after running it through some stress tests for an hour. I don't care if I sound unreasonable, because guess what, it is POSSIBLE! The one I have now is that perfect, so why would I accept anything less than what I already have??? I urge all of you not to "take it" and "deal with it", because we're paying a bunch of money and most of us (I dare say) are REPEAT customers, aren't we??!??
I'm already getting anxious and angry about this and my purchase is still a few weeks away. WTF!??? Getting back to these new restrictions, why does Apple think this is necessary to do? Do they really think they'll sell more iMac's if they put up more and more barriers for the few end users like us who care to make any modifications at all???
All through the 80's and most of the 90's Apple loved to put proprietary hardware into their computers. Eventually, this design philosophy wound up biting them in the ass because their systems were too closed. With the advent of the first iMac, Apple seemed to embrace open standards, like USB. Gone were proprietary standards like ADB and localtalk.
Alas, with Apple's astounding success over the last decade has come an arrogance that believes that open standards are no longer in Apple's best interest. We saw this trend with the latest MacBook Air and its proprietary SSD. And now this. Apple will live to regret returning to its old bad habits.
And, to me, the worst part is how hypocritical Apple can be about it. They proclaim just how "open" Mac OS X is by sharing the Darwin source code, adopting various open standards, etc.
Apple, like a lot of other companies, uses open standards when it benefits them and craps on them when they don't. I, too, expect this will ultimately come back to bite them in the ass.
I'm already getting anxious and angry about this and my purchase is still a few weeks away. WTF!??? Getting back to these new restrictions, why does Apple think this is necessary to do? Do they really think they'll sell more iMac's if they put up more and more barriers for the few end users like us who care to make any modifications at all???
Well get on with your research and preparation and stop listening to what incompetent companies like OWG spread in the news. The new iMacs are simply amazing. My 27" boots up in 8 seconds with a Vertex 3 SSD and runs 3 virtual machines simultaneously while I work in complete silence. Can't wait for the TB devices to spring.
READ MY POST! I am talking about my OWN PERSONAL experiences. I don't like OWC either, but nobody but you are talking about them. I LOVE my 27" iMac, too. And it's FLAWLESS. As I wrote above. It took me FOUR tries, though, and that's all there is to it, son...
Perhaps I misread your post and I apologise if I did. I was trying to say that the barriers you believe Apple is putting up according to OCW's report are nonsense since the new 2011 i5 & i7 iMac are totally upgradable as many people have done it already without any problems. If anything, they are more upgradable than then 2010 iMacs since the temperature sensor does no longer exist.
READ MY POST! I am talking about my OWN PERSONAL experiences. I don't like OWC either, but nobody but you are talking about them. I LOVE my 27" iMac, too. And it's FLAWLESS. As I wrote above. It took me FOUR tries, though, and that's all there is to it, son...
I don't see how your "problems" are relevant to the erroneous report by OWC and the ensuing complaints about the "open-ness" of Apple's products.
Haven't you heard? They're using proprietary memory. Instead of PC3-12800 they're using MAC10-4880478696838675309.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tink
On the bright side I can't wait for it to arrive and I am stoked with everything else these iMacs offer. At least my 8 GB extra ram on order will be easy to install.
The auto industry does not design cars to suit "backyard mechanics" .... that's not their major demographic.
So why do the loudest/most frequent complainers in the computer industry expect Apple to design a computer to suit the "nerd" demographic?
The vast majority .... vast majority of consumers are like me. I don't want to work ON my computer .... I just want to work WITH my computer. This is not "rocket science" people .... just good consumer marker analysis 101.
Were you one of those people who argued against making Mac laptops easier to service because doing so would supposedly make laptops bigger and heavier? If so, then you must be disappointed that unibody MacBook Pros are thinner, stronger, and easier to service than the original models.
So should Apple make iMacs easier to service or not?
There might be a rational reason but honestly I don't think it exists. At least I can't come up with one. Maybe Apple is trying to get us to go back to running Linux. On the surface this move is stupid enough to impact sales and cause people to look for alternative platforms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxinc
The OWC report is quite inaccurate and I wish they did some more testing or at least read the forums before creating mass panic.
The SATA data connectors are very standard and so is the SATA power cable feeding the hard drive. The only difference is that they used 7 wires instead of 5, probably some extra grounds.
I installed a Vertex3 SSD and used a plain 4 wire Y-splitter sata power cable which effectively discards the 3.3V from the apple's wiring and only feeds 5V and 12V to the original drive. Guess what, fan speed is as quiet as it can get and the Apple Hardware Test passes successfully.
I went further and moved the internal HDD from SATA0 to SATA1 port to better accommodate the SATA connector for the SSD and this didn't create any adverse effects.
Another member of the forum swapped the 1TB WD Black with a 2TB WD Black and again, no adverse effect, Hardware Test completed successfully.
With the SSD in place now, the only thing I can hear is my breath reflected by the glass screen
Could it be that OWC is just trying to drum up business by making these assertions?
All through the 80's and most of the 90's Apple loved to put proprietary hardware into their computers. Eventually, this design philosophy wound up biting them in the ass because their systems were too closed. With the advent of the first iMac, Apple seemed to embrace open standards, like USB. Gone were proprietary standards like ADB and localtalk.
Alas, with Apple's astounding success over the last decade has come an arrogance that believes that open standards are no longer in Apple's best interest. We saw this trend with the latest MacBook Air and its proprietary SSD. And now this. Apple will live to regret returning to its old bad habits.
The benefits brought to the MacBook Air justify the proprietary SSD blades. This, on the other hand, I don't quite understand. A bit of over-engineering, I think, an old Apple habit that indeed stifled adoption.
Granted there may be some incompatibilities out there, but stating that apple had restricted the upgradability of the new iMacs is just wrong. They, in fact, made it easier compared to the 2010 iMac since the silly thermal sensor is no longer required.
Were you one of those people who argued against making Mac laptops easier to service because doing so would supposedly make laptops bigger and heavier? If so, then you must be disappointed that unibody MacBook Pros are thinner, stronger, and easier to service than the original models.
So should Apple make iMacs easier to service or not?
Either I wasn't clear or you just missed my point ... no problem ... I'll try to clarify my point.
As far as I, and countless others are concerned, (judging from the fact that Apple has outperformed, sales wise, their competitors for some time now) ... I don't care how easy or difficult it is to service any computer ... as I have no intention of doing anything more than upgrading Ram, in most cases.
In fact, this is precisely why I chose Apple over 12 years ago. There isn't the need for me to be a repair specialist to enjoy my Mac.
In other words, most consumers are like me ... they want to drive a car, not tune it up. They want to watch TV, not tinker with it .... and they want to use their Mac, not tinker with it .... having said that, I accept the fact that the computer industry has a sizable portion of the consumer base that loves to "do their own thing" .... fair enough, but that's not the demographic that Apple is chasing, nor should be, IMHO. ..... and their ever increasing customer base seems to suggest that they're correct with that philosophy.
The bottom line is this .... the "techies" seem to do all of the complaining about how bad Apple is for not making it easier to take their computer home and "re-design" it. Instead of the constant bitching ... why not do what the rest of us do ... if Apple isn't working for you ... find something that is. At least that way, the line ups wouldn't be so long. Cheers.
Comments
Coming from someone that doesn't own an iMac, this completely doesn't make sense. The SATA power connector connects straight to the power supply on normal computers. Does it split the wires? How would it get information from a power port? It would make sense if they use additional pins on the SATA data connector, but not the power connector. Am I missing something?
You are right. The OWC report is misleading and incomplete. I replaced the 7 wire connector with a plain 4 wire y-splitter sata and the system works just fine with normal fan speeds and AHT successfully. The new iMacs don't get the temperature readings from the power connector.
The reason I think they used 7 wires instead of 5 is because they wires themselves are really thin so it would make sense to double the 12V and 5V lines just as the SATA power connector has 3 pins allocated for each wire that comes in.
Hard drives will always fail eventually. We need to be able to replace them when they do.
Thanks Apple for giving me another reason not to upgrade my iMac. Having the drive hard to reach is bad enough. Having it non-standard is even worse. The iMac is becoming something you have to throw away when anything breaks.
Ah, bless you for believing every bit of FUD that is spread. The report is incorrect, the imac is sold as a sealed unit, with the only user upgradeable component being the RAM. Opening the machine invalidates your warranty. Furthermore the SATA connection is standard.
So a machine which is not sold as having a user replaceable hard drive actually is upgradeable with a bit if technical know how. This is not a story.
Yes, if the machine breaks you have to send it for repair. What's so unusual about that?
So much crud is posted in these forums it's almost laughable.
Someone posts some crap with no evidence and you're all ready to believe it, with no supporting evidence or first hand experience? Laughable.
While we're at it - mac's can't run Microsoft software, they're only for designers and are more expensive than windows machines with the same performance...
Wow... the greed. Insatiable epic greed.
I knew I bought my last Mac Pro a few years ago... but always thought the iMac would be around as an option.
The environmental impact of this alone should make Apple completely ashamed.
I replace HDD's for people all the time (as it's the main reason older systems fail). People aren't going to fork over laughable extortionist prices for a HDD. It will be like when a logic board fails... just throw the whole machine away.
Apple is pushing out their ethical investors faster then predicted.
Consumerism is a sickness - not something to be celebrated and base an economy on.
Success based on the size of our landfills.
Read the article. Your pst is pointless. What environmental impact? Nonsense based on fallacy.
While we're at it - mac's can't run Microsoft software, they're only for designers and are more expensive than windows machines with the same performance...
I currently don't own a Mac anymore, but this bit of misinformation has always irked me. People don't see how much better made they are and the fact that OS upgrades are so dirt cheap. Macs are worth every penny of their price. I've been itching for a laptop, and I've been shopping both PC's and Macs. I just cringe whenever a PC is even close to a Mac in price, as I think to myself that I could get Apple quality at those prices and be happier. If a PC even comes close to a Mac price, I'd go Mac any day. I'll probably be getting one for my next computer purchase, finally, after 10 years since I turned off my last one for good.
Anyway, that's completely off topic. I suggest people take a wait and see approach. It could be a complete bunch of crap from someone trying to slam the Mac. There are plenty of those out there...
As I noted, not all SSD's are created equal and Apple has been using Toshiba ones both in the iMac and the MacBook Air, although they recently switched to significantly faster Samsung SSD's, at least on the Air.
I'm about to buy another 27-incher of these next-gen iMac's and after going through THREE (3) bad iMac's (2 of them had bad screens and in one, the audio out jack didn't work right). Needless to say, I've come to know the various hard drives they use in all of them. First of all, it doesn't matter if you're getting a 21.5" or 27". You'll get either a Seagate or a WDC for a 1TB and a Hitachi if you choose a 2TB. The one you want is the Western Digital, the Caviar Black to be exact. By contrast, the Seagate (Barracuda ST31000...AS(Q) drives are LOUD, whereas the WDC 1TB's are virtually completely SILENT and run incredibly well. The difference is not only noticeable but very significant. As soon as I have a buyer for my current iMac, I'm heading straight to the store. I already warned them when I was there to swap out my iPad 2 for a THIRD one. My bad for ordering online instead of going into a store.
Having said all of this, my iMac that I bought last July is on 24/7, literally, and it's seeing a LOT of use and it performs superbly. I love it. So did my iPad 1 and so does my iPad 2, but sometimes, it looks like there is some pain involved at the time of obtaining the actual product.
I got them good for every time they made me come back for another iMac but this time, I think I will just open it up, take the damn thing out of the box inside the store, have them plug it in and take out my microscope so as to actively try to find something. ANYTHING. And if I find so much as one bad pixel on the very end of the screen, they will go back and get the next out. Once the screen passes MY standard for perfection, I'll try every other component that I CAN inside the store, ther most important of which will be the hard drive. I won't jump through these hoops again where I find out after unpacking my iMac, setting it up, configuring it only to find something wrong with it in the process, such as an imperfection in the screen or a loud hard drive. They're going to bring out one after another until I see the letters WDC in System Profiler on a crystal clear, immaculate and flawless 27" screen, and when I get the thing home I had better be able to hear a pin drop after running it through some stress tests for an hour. I don't care if I sound unreasonable, because guess what, it is POSSIBLE! The one I have now is that perfect, so why would I accept anything less than what I already have??? I urge all of you not to "take it" and "deal with it", because we're paying a bunch of money and most of us (I dare say) are REPEAT customers, aren't we??!??
I'm already getting anxious and angry about this and my purchase is still a few weeks away. WTF!??? Getting back to these new restrictions, why does Apple think this is necessary to do? Do they really think they'll sell more iMac's if they put up more and more barriers for the few end users like us who care to make any modifications at all???
All through the 80's and most of the 90's Apple loved to put proprietary hardware into their computers. Eventually, this design philosophy wound up biting them in the ass because their systems were too closed. With the advent of the first iMac, Apple seemed to embrace open standards, like USB. Gone were proprietary standards like ADB and localtalk.
Alas, with Apple's astounding success over the last decade has come an arrogance that believes that open standards are no longer in Apple's best interest. We saw this trend with the latest MacBook Air and its proprietary SSD. And now this. Apple will live to regret returning to its old bad habits.
And, to me, the worst part is how hypocritical Apple can be about it. They proclaim just how "open" Mac OS X is by sharing the Darwin source code, adopting various open standards, etc.
Apple, like a lot of other companies, uses open standards when it benefits them and craps on them when they don't. I, too, expect this will ultimately come back to bite them in the ass.
I'm already getting anxious and angry about this and my purchase is still a few weeks away. WTF!??? Getting back to these new restrictions, why does Apple think this is necessary to do? Do they really think they'll sell more iMac's if they put up more and more barriers for the few end users like us who care to make any modifications at all???
Well get on with your research and preparation and stop listening to what incompetent companies like OWG spread in the news. The new iMacs are simply amazing. My 27" boots up in 8 seconds with a Vertex 3 SSD and runs 3 virtual machines simultaneously while I work in complete silence. Can't wait for the TB devices to spring.
READ MY POST! I am talking about my OWN PERSONAL experiences. I don't like OWC either, but nobody but you are talking about them. I LOVE my 27" iMac, too. And it's FLAWLESS. As I wrote above. It took me FOUR tries, though, and that's all there is to it, son...
I don't see how your "problems" are relevant to the erroneous report by OWC and the ensuing complaints about the "open-ness" of Apple's products.
On the bright side I can't wait for it to arrive and I am stoked with everything else these iMacs offer. At least my 8 GB extra ram on order will be easy to install.
The auto industry does not design cars to suit "backyard mechanics" .... that's not their major demographic.
So why do the loudest/most frequent complainers in the computer industry expect Apple to design a computer to suit the "nerd" demographic?
The vast majority .... vast majority of consumers are like me. I don't want to work ON my computer .... I just want to work WITH my computer. This is not "rocket science" people .... just good consumer marker analysis 101.
Were you one of those people who argued against making Mac laptops easier to service because doing so would supposedly make laptops bigger and heavier? If so, then you must be disappointed that unibody MacBook Pros are thinner, stronger, and easier to service than the original models.
So should Apple make iMacs easier to service or not?
The rest is irrelevant, to me.
There might be a rational reason but honestly I don't think it exists. At least I can't come up with one. Maybe Apple is trying to get us to go back to running Linux. On the surface this move is stupid enough to impact sales and cause people to look for alternative platforms.
Originally Posted by maxinc
The OWC report is quite inaccurate and I wish they did some more testing or at least read the forums before creating mass panic.
The SATA data connectors are very standard and so is the SATA power cable feeding the hard drive. The only difference is that they used 7 wires instead of 5, probably some extra grounds.
I installed a Vertex3 SSD and used a plain 4 wire Y-splitter sata power cable which effectively discards the 3.3V from the apple's wiring and only feeds 5V and 12V to the original drive. Guess what, fan speed is as quiet as it can get and the Apple Hardware Test passes successfully.
I went further and moved the internal HDD from SATA0 to SATA1 port to better accommodate the SATA connector for the SSD and this didn't create any adverse effects.
Another member of the forum swapped the 1TB WD Black with a 2TB WD Black and again, no adverse effect, Hardware Test completed successfully.
With the SSD in place now, the only thing I can hear is my breath reflected by the glass screen
Could it be that OWC is just trying to drum up business by making these assertions?
All through the 80's and most of the 90's Apple loved to put proprietary hardware into their computers. Eventually, this design philosophy wound up biting them in the ass because their systems were too closed. With the advent of the first iMac, Apple seemed to embrace open standards, like USB. Gone were proprietary standards like ADB and localtalk.
Alas, with Apple's astounding success over the last decade has come an arrogance that believes that open standards are no longer in Apple's best interest. We saw this trend with the latest MacBook Air and its proprietary SSD. And now this. Apple will live to regret returning to its old bad habits.
The benefits brought to the MacBook Air justify the proprietary SSD blades. This, on the other hand, I don't quite understand. A bit of over-engineering, I think, an old Apple habit that indeed stifled adoption.
It was my mistake and I apologise. It was a 1TB Seagate that was replaced with a 2TB WD Black as seen here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...0&postcount=48
Another user added a 3TB Seagate Baracuda XT without any problems.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...9&postcount=65
Granted there may be some incompatibilities out there, but stating that apple had restricted the upgradability of the new iMacs is just wrong. They, in fact, made it easier compared to the 2010 iMac since the silly thermal sensor is no longer required.
Were you one of those people who argued against making Mac laptops easier to service because doing so would supposedly make laptops bigger and heavier? If so, then you must be disappointed that unibody MacBook Pros are thinner, stronger, and easier to service than the original models.
So should Apple make iMacs easier to service or not?
Either I wasn't clear or you just missed my point ... no problem ... I'll try to clarify my point.
As far as I, and countless others are concerned, (judging from the fact that Apple has outperformed, sales wise, their competitors for some time now) ... I don't care how easy or difficult it is to service any computer ... as I have no intention of doing anything more than upgrading Ram, in most cases.
In fact, this is precisely why I chose Apple over 12 years ago. There isn't the need for me to be a repair specialist to enjoy my Mac.
In other words, most consumers are like me ... they want to drive a car, not tune it up. They want to watch TV, not tinker with it .... and they want to use their Mac, not tinker with it .... having said that, I accept the fact that the computer industry has a sizable portion of the consumer base that loves to "do their own thing" .... fair enough, but that's not the demographic that Apple is chasing, nor should be, IMHO. ..... and their ever increasing customer base seems to suggest that they're correct with that philosophy.
The bottom line is this .... the "techies" seem to do all of the complaining about how bad Apple is for not making it easier to take their computer home and "re-design" it. Instead of the constant bitching ... why not do what the rest of us do ... if Apple isn't working for you ... find something that is. At least that way, the line ups wouldn't be so long. Cheers.