Lawsuit accuses Broadway Apple Store employees of racial discrimination

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  • Reply 21 of 212


    This has been another edition of... Things we learn on Community.



    http://www.nbc.com/community/video/g...llege/1175266/
  • Reply 22 of 212
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,709member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NomadMac View Post


    Walk like a thug, talk like a thug and dress like a thug, you can't complain about the reception you get.

    Do you think they would have been tossed if they were wearing an Armani suit?



    Yup - I am sure these guys walked, talked and dressed like thugs. I can deduce that from the article. No bias on my part. No prejudice. I say they are guilty.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by herbapou View Post


    They sound like two trouble makers imo but they could still be right. It depends if colored people dress more like bussiness man get the same treatment. It could be look/wealth related more than race related.



    I got a strange feeling that this could be planned in order to file a lawsuit. After patent trolls now racist trolls?



    Definitely sound like trouble makers. Why else would they be buying only earphones. Everything in the article makes them sound like trouble. Not like the Apple staff who clearly were just doing their job. I can deduce that from the article, too. You know, reading between the lines, and all that. Without prejudice, you understand.



    Honestly guys, think before you write. This is one of those stories where it is not ok to have an opinion about what happened. I mean how the fuck do you know?
  • Reply 23 of 212
    jbellajbella Posts: 29member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NomadMac View Post


    Walk like a thug, talk like a thug and dress like a thug, you can't complain about the reception you get.

    Do you think they would have been tossed if they were wearing an Armani suit?



    Do you think they would have been tossed if they were white and dressed that way? Are all black people now required to wear Armani suits in order to not be treated like criminals?
  • Reply 24 of 212
    noahjnoahj Posts: 4,503member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IronTed View Post


    No, I don't agree with you. This is truly disgusting! It appalls me that in this age and time, there's still racial discrimination. And no, there's no dress code at any Apple Store, unlike IBM. You can dress in any comfortable way you want. And you can speak with any accent. Prejudice is not an excuse for discrimination.



    Steve Jobs will never approve of this. He's a Buddhist, and a vegetarian. He's the most humble person you will ever come across. He would never consider himself a God.



    All involved employees of the Store should be fired.



    Now, I wonder which one of you on AppleInsider is a racist?



    Really, you know for sure all of this based on third party accounts?



    I suppose anyone who disagrees with you is a racist?



    And what does Steve jobs have to do with this incident? I know many buddhists, and vegetarians. None of that had anything to do with how kind or humble they actually were or were not.



    Fire first and ask questions later is a lazy way to solve a problem.
  • Reply 25 of 212
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IronTed View Post


    No, I don't agree with you. This is truly disgusting! It appalls me that in this age and time, there's still racial discrimination. And no, there's no dress code at any Apple Store, unlike IBM. You can dress in any comfortable way you want. And you can speak with any accent. Prejudice is not an excuse for discrimination.



    Steve Jobs will never approve of this. He's a Buddhist, and a vegetarian. He's the most humble person you will ever come across. He would never consider himself a God.



    All involved employees of the Store should be fired.



    Now, I wonder which one of you on AppleInsider is a racist?



    Before you continue with your diatribe Ted, do you live in NYC? Racism (at least in my circles) is in fact simply unacceptable and impractical. How could one be a racist, or a homophobe etc and still live in NY? it's impossible. The first sign of racism and the source will be ostracized. Period. You will never get hired for a job as a bigot, you will never make any contacts. At least half of the Apple store employees are "minorities" in NY. No one cares, unless they want to use the race card to explain away some self deficiency.



    I will say however that NY is certainly a place that judges you by appearance and your ability to speak. If you want a "corporate" job (the Apple store is one of them) don't go dressed like doofus and do speak like a professional, whatever your race is and no matter what is said to you.



    Further, there is a dress code at the Apple stores. Why do you think they all wear those silly shirts? It happens to be a pretty informal dress code, but I doubt overly baggy jeans and a bad attitude would fly any better than "assless" riding chaps.



    Standards do not imply racism or discrimination.



    I should also add that Buddhists can be racists too. I have friends from Tibet who's words are not kind to the Chinese. Understandably; so I'm not criticizing them, but the fact of the matter is we are all racist on some level. Even those in the "minority" who call out "racism" every time they can't explain why they can't get what they want.
  • Reply 26 of 212
    black107black107 Posts: 11member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post


    I saw a white guy being asked to leave the 5th Avenue Apple Store. It was 3 a.m. and he was starting to fall asleep on one of the benches. The employees weren't rude or anything, just told him he had to leave if he wasn't doing business there. I've sat for a couple of hours working on my iPad there and they never bothered me, but then again I'm not black nor dressed in gangsta fashions.



    But this doesn't sound real to me. Nobody but either very dumb or very rich people would look for accessories like headphones at the Apple Store. The prices are just too high compared with Amazon, eBay, etc.



    Are you kidding? Everyone in New York wears Dre Beats headphones. Apple sells them in store last time I saw.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    That is just it. If you dress like a typical gangster wanna be dresses like, people are going to treat you as such. That has nothing to do with race. It isn't illegal to discriminate against somebody for the way they dress.



    If Apple has african americans working in the store, especially in management, these folks are probably going to have a hard time winning the lawsuit. Even if the recording shows the employee acting in a clearly discriminating manner, Apple wouldn't be liable unless it adopted discriminatory policies. Then again, if the case makes it to a jury, who knows what will happen.



    I used to work in a employment law firm where we defended companies accused of work place discrimination. Nine out of ten times such allegations were clearly fabricated. Unfortunately, the employers had to pay tens of thousands of dollars to defend such allegations. Another reason employers probably like doing business in places like China instead.



    I'm never someone to say this, but god damn this thread has a lot of racist comments.



    "Dressed like a thug" or not, I guarantee you if two white guys of the same ages walked in wearing the exact same clothes, they wouldn't be told to leave. Granted, I dont know the entire story, maybe these guys were hovering around the ipads/iphones suspiciously, maybe they werent. But the supposition in this thread is pretty gross.
  • Reply 27 of 212
    joelsaltjoelsalt Posts: 827member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jbella View Post


    Do you think they would have been tossed if they were white and dressed that way? Are all black people now required to wear Armani suits in order to not be treated like criminals?



    in my neck of the woods, aboriginals are the highly marginal group, but yes, anyone wearing a baggy "dragon" (or whatever brandname) bunnyhug (or, hoodie, as the rest of the world calls them) is subjected to visual prejudice.
  • Reply 28 of 212
    msanttimsantti Posts: 1,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IronTed View Post


    No, I don't agree with you. This is truly disgusting! It appalls me that in this age and time, there's still racial discrimination. And no, there's no dress code at any Apple Store, unlike IBM. You can dress in any comfortable way you want. And you can speak with any accent. Prejudice is not an excuse for discrimination.



    Steve Jobs will never approve of this. He's a Buddhist, and a vegetarian. He's the most humble person you will ever come across. He would never consider himself a God.



    All involved employees of the Store should be fired.



    Now, I wonder which one of you on AppleInsider is a racist?



    Sounds like these two guys have an actual witness right here.



    Case closed.
  • Reply 29 of 212
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,639member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nkalu View Post


    Apple Store cameras should settle this case easily. I look forward to an update on this.



    That, and the conversation the suit alleges that they recorded. It seems there should be enough evidence to settle this matter one way or the other pretty easily.



    Having said that, some of the specific allegations just don't pass the smell test. It sounds so completely out of character for an Apple Store and an Apple retail employee. I would also wonder how soon the phone recording started. Too early and it sounds a bit like a set-up of some kind. I know that when I am feeling hassled by someone, a cop at a traffic stop for instance, the last thing I think about is pulling out my iPhone to document the situation. I think about it later, but not in the emotional moment. Unless I was expecting trouble, which could be the case for these guys. Anyway, I hope that AI does some follow up on the particulars as I am curious what the evidence will show.
  • Reply 30 of 212
    msimpsonmsimpson Posts: 452member
    In the Apple stores I have been in there has always been a very mixed group of people - all races, ages, sexes, nationalities. I have never seen anyone turned away or discriminated against. And the Apple staff are usually a diverse cross-section as well. They are always glad to help anyone I have seen.
  • Reply 31 of 212
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Unless I missed something, it sounds like discrimination based on attire or perceived gang affiliation because of attire, not race. Maybe they need a sign: no shoes, no shirt, asscrack or underpants showing, no service.
  • Reply 32 of 212
    avidmacavidmac Posts: 12member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Real gangsters don't visit the Apple store during business hours of operation



    Ah yes, perhaps the little lambs didn't get the memo.
  • Reply 33 of 212
    noahjnoahj Posts: 4,503member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Unless I missed something, it sounds like discrimination based on attire or perceived gang affiliation because of attire, not race. Maybe they need a sign: no shoes, no shirt, asscrack or underpants showing, no service.



    What? And lose all their plumber customers?
  • Reply 34 of 212
    kenwkkenwk Posts: 25member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jbella View Post


    Do you think they would have been tossed if they were white and dressed that way? Are all black people now required to wear Armani suits in order to not be treated like criminals?



    Sorry it is all about appearance and crime stat. If you walk down the street at night and there are black dudes that dressed like that, honestly are you scared? I am and I am not white. Not here to protect AAPLE but if you work in retail you will understand.
  • Reply 35 of 212
    c4rlobc4rlob Posts: 277member
    Don't be surprised if Apple changes their iPhone and iPad product shots to use a dark hand instead of light.



  • Reply 36 of 212
    mrstepmrstep Posts: 484member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IronTed View Post


    No, I don't agree with you. This is truly disgusting! It appalls me that in this age and time, there's still racial discrimination. And no, there's no dress code at any Apple Store, unlike IBM. You can dress in any comfortable way you want. And you can speak with any accent. Prejudice is not an excuse for discrimination.



    Steve Jobs will never approve of this. He's a Buddhist, and a vegetarian. He's the most humble person you will ever come across. He would never consider himself a God.



    All involved employees of the Store should be fired.



    Now, I wonder which one of you on AppleInsider is a racist?



    If a better-dressed black person comes in and you throw them out based on color, that's a different issue, but making that judgement based on prior problems doesn't automatically mean racial discrimination. If you don't want to be seen as a thug, don't dress like one - you're going to get that comparison if you do. Walk around in a Klan robe and people will judge you to be a racist, even if you just happen to like the fashion, right?



    Prejudging doesn't make you a racist unless the judgement was specifically because of skin color - if 9/10 times (or 1/10 even?) someone dressed that way comes in, hangs out in an aisle, and then runs out of the store, you'd be an idiot NOT to make that judgement and either have security stand with them or ask them to leave.



    On a related note, I actually saw a gangsta-dressed black guy running out of the Apple store near me as I walked in one time, and when I turned to the store worker near the entrance and said 'Really?', he told me it happens all the time, and that was usually people grabbing an armful of headphones.



    So... I'm certainly not shocked to hear of something like this. And no, it wasn't the store in the story (D.C. area...)
  • Reply 37 of 212
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by c4rlob View Post


    Don't be surprised if Apple changes their iPhone and iPad product shots to use a dark hand instead of light.



    They already have a wide diversity of ethnicities in the product shots.
  • Reply 38 of 212
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IronTed View Post


    No, I don't agree with you. This is truly disgusting! It appalls me that in this age and time, there's still racial discrimination.



    Give it a rest, clownboy. The employees saw a couple of guys dressed in BULKY CLOTHING. Clothes you can easily slip shoplifted items into. That's all they need to see. And you know what else? It's APPLE's store. That means they get to decide who to allow inside. Period.



    What a self-righteous fool you are.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Black107 View Post


    "Dressed like a thug" or not, I guarantee you if two white guys of the same ages walked in wearing the exact same clothes, they wouldn't be told to leave.



    And you'd be 100% wrong. Retail stores are always, and I mean ALWAYS on the lookout for items of clothing that could be used to conceal lifted merch. That's why most stores make you check your bags at the door. Security checks ANYONE - male, female, black, white - wearing such clothing, and they are especially suspicious of people traveling in pairs or groups (where one serves as the lookout).



    Another big fat fail, playing the tired 'racist' card.
  • Reply 39 of 212
    dreyfus2dreyfus2 Posts: 1,072member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    You mean there should be a dress code at Apple Stores? Maybe. Many upscale restaurants have dress codes.



    Hm. The problem I see here is, that this would likely force most staff members to stay outside...



    ===



    Other than that: the article only contains the claim and the statement of the claimants. IF the dress or color of the guys was really the only factor leading to their dismissal, then this is certainly bad. Apple has no dress code requirement posted (like some restaurants and clubs do), so they can't randomly apply one (unless the dress disturbs other customers, e.g. stinks, or displays hateful slogans, etc.). But we neither know that, nor the "other side" of the story.
  • Reply 40 of 212
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Black107 View Post


    Are you kidding? Everyone in New York wears Dre Beats headphones. Apple sells them in store last time I saw.



    I'm never someone to say this, but god damn this thread has a lot of racist comments.



    "Dressed like a thug" or not, I guarantee you if two white guys of the same ages walked in wearing the exact same clothes, they wouldn't be told to leave. Granted, I dont know the entire story, maybe these guys were hovering around the ipads/iphones suspiciously, maybe they werent. But the supposition in this thread is pretty gross.



    I have to disagree. White kids who try to be "thugs" are even more offensive than kids who grew up in a community and are following the norms of that community. Neither really has an excuse to behave or dress like a thug if they want to elevate themselves, but it sure is allot harder to bring yourself up and stand apart than it is do step down because you are insecure about being a privileged white kid in a urban environment.



    If neither could speak well or impress me with their demeanor, I wouldn't hire either. Your assumptions are erroneous.
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