I'm a black and Apple store has always treated me very well and was happy to help me out like almost any business would. Apple is happy to take anyone's money regardless of their race. These people are grifting. If those people were at the store purchasing items then I'm sure the employees would've had no problem with these people being in the store. Bottom line... I just think they are making it up.
The claims of a video feel like they walked in to make trouble and cause a scene and hopefully get it on tape for this purpose.
But having done retail LP before, I can't help but wonder if said store discovered that some software etc went missing that day. Very likely while that stink was going on. Because I've seen cases where one person or pair caused a scene while a partner was dropping stuff into shopping bags etc. Unnoticed because everyone was looking the other way. In fact it is such a common tactic that my boss told us that we were under orders not to pay attention. if that kind of shit goes down we were to put our eyes on everyone else to look for any lifters.
That pretty much goes for everyone commenting on this thread. Except that there are no facts thus far, just a legal filing. But that's apparently not stopping anyone here from "knowing" what happened.
Another reason employers probably like doing business in places like China instead.
What does that mean? That China is more homogeneous therefore have less bias incidents, it could be true. If you think the Han majority is least likely to discriminate against China's ethnic minorities, not true.
But if you think Chinese people are less tribal, regional or racial discriminate that anyone else, you are out of your mind. Especially the older generation. My father's, mother's, aunt's, and uncle's racial slurs and attitudes just sickens me. China has always looked down on the rest of Asia(and the world) because of its military and cultural influance. Ghangis Khan and Imperialism were just a minor set back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
They already have a wide diversity of ethnicities in the product shots.
What? Before the iPhone, you didn't even see a hand. Just a tank rolling over the PCs (I wish :P).
And what do you base your opinion on ..... the fact that they're black? .... or wear baggy pants? You may be right .... you may be wrong ..... as for me, I'll hold judgement until more details come forth. There are always two sides to every story. cheers.
How about the fact that Apple isn't guilty until proven otherwise in a court of law? I think that alone is enough to assume the accused is innocent.
He, kind of hemmed and hawed... Then he softly told me he worked for Apple security and was monitoring the activity in the store.
Brilliant! Becoming invisible by standing out in a crowd.
Around here, that kind of thing isn't noticed.
He was doing what I did. Undercover LP. Even when I was 21-22, put me in jeans and a Harry Potter or whatever tee and I looked like a 14 year old. I worked bookstores, record stores, even an Apple store or two.
I do enough shopping at the stores that I've noticed the same guy or girl hanging out a lot. Easy money that person is a ULP. They look like they are goofing off on a computer, generally near the smaller items but they are paying attention. Sometimes if it's known that there is a chronic lifter or team in the area, they will purposefully put the same ULP in a store day after day as a set up. The team will figure out who that person is and wait for when they go on a break and walk out of the store. Unaware that there is a second ULP on duty as well, who catches them in the act with video to back it up for the courts.
Steve Jobs will never approve of this. He's a Buddhist, and a vegetarian. He's the most humble person you will ever come across. He would never consider himself a God.
You either have a very superficial knowledge of Steve Jobs or you're joking.
For some reason I don't think we are hearing the whole story. It takes time to open a sound recording application on a phone. The whole recording thing sounds premeditated.
It sounds like they were (rightfully) being discriminated against for being troublemakers. The quote said that he was not discriminating against them based on race. They were probably trying to cause trouble because they had a voice recorder app running. It sounds like they may have been violating a dress code too. You have the right not to be discriminated against based on race, but generally dress can be discriminated against. Especially if it involves display of certain body parts that naturally become exposed when wearing baggy clothing.
I don't know anyone that would kick someone out of a store (or anywhere) for race alone. The only racist people I know would act polite but consider them inferior based on race. The deep down belief that everyone has equal potential (no matter what their race) is what needs to be changed for equal rights. Seriously, people need to realize that this KKK-style racism doesn't exist anymore. Apple has a diverse employee base and I have always seen them have great respect for everyone.
I bet the store has some video footage to back up the employees.
When we lived in Las Vegas, 1964-78 a group of individual performers was known as the "Rat-Pack", Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr., Dean Martin, Joey Bishop and Peter Lawford.
Many of these entertainers would appear "in-town" at different hotels, concurrently. After a show, one performer would "drop-in" on another's show -- and go onstage and perform a duet -- sometimes steal the show. Often, those not "in town" would fly in just to do the "tour".
Sometimes, a lucky audience attending, say, a Dean Martin show -- would get the whole "rat-pack" on stage -- to the enjoyment of all.
Of topic?
Not too much.
What's interesting is that the rat pack performed in the "best hotels" in Las Vegas and entertained the best audiences -- often to standing Os.
But, one of them could not stay in a hotel room within the Las Vegas City Limits. Sammy Davis Jr., because he was "black" had to stay at hotels in the City of North Las Vegas.
The people saying "dress like a gangsta and be kicked out" really don't get it. At all. People who dress gangsta have the same rights as other people. If necessary, this can be demonstrated in a courtroom, where the "gangstas" are the powerful citizen, and the megacorp is the apologetic shrinking violet who thanks the plaintiffs for teaching them an important lesson.
I think a lot of people are assuming a lot of things simply because these guys had baggy clothes, but if they *were* "dressed gangsta" then they should expect to be treated like gangstas.
People have the same rights no matter how they are dressed, but we all judge each other all day long, (it's just part of how life works), and the main criteria we use to judge people in that way, is how they dress, how they move, and how they hold themselves. Anyone who's every had to observe people for a living knows this.
"Dressing Gangsta" is literally "dressing like a criminal" and anyone who does so, especially if they have the attitude to match, should expect to be treated like they (apparently) were.
Are you kidding? Everyone in New York wears Dre Beats headphones. Apple sells them in store last time I saw.
I'm never someone to say this, but god damn this thread has a lot of racist comments.
"Dressed like a thug" or not, I guarantee you if two white guys of the same ages walked in wearing the exact same clothes, they wouldn't be told to leave. Granted, I dont know the entire story, maybe these guys were hovering around the ipads/iphones suspiciously, maybe they werent. But the supposition in this thread is pretty gross.
I am a 50 year old music producer here in NYC and have lived here all my life and I am of mixed race half puertorican/ half African American and I am always arguing with my partner of 25 years now (we are music production partners and he is African american) now I am always telling him when we go to events or meetings with record companies that he must not wear a hoody or baggy pants or t-shirts 4x his size to talk to the guys in the suits and these guys were probably NOT going to buy anything maybe just in there meddling with the equipment but I know that when I've seen people dressed this way the have manners and are proper with the sales guys , these guys were prob trying to see if the could put something in their baggy ass hoods and the apple staff were on their p's and q's
Must have noticed they weren't using anything.. And anybody wearing really baggy clothes these days are either up to no good or out of fashion cause all the young kids are wearing tight pants and fitted jeans and not so 'ghetto' yea I said it !!!
These guys are lQQking for a quick payout or fast cash IMO
"Dressing Gangsta" is literally "dressing like a criminal" and anyone who does so, especially if they have the attitude to match, should expect to be treated like they (apparently) were.
So that's why all those crooks on Wallstreet get off scott free.
I think a lot of people are assuming a lot of things simply because these guys had baggy clothes, but if they *were* "dressed gangsta" then they should expect to be treated like gangstas.
People have the same rights no matter how they are dressed, but we all judge each other all day long, (it's just part of how life works), and the main criteria we use to judge people in that way, is how they dress, how they move, and how they hold themselves. Anyone who's every had to observe people for a living knows this.
"Dressing Gangsta" is literally "dressing like a criminal" and anyone who does so, especially if they have the attitude to match, should expect to be treated like they (apparently) were.
Could not have said it any better you hit it right on the HEAD!!!
if it walks like Duck and talks like a Duck - well it probably is a duck
This will get THROWN OUT SO FAST and these idiot should prob go back to school and get edumacated !!!! GHETTO IS GHETTO does I'm so thru with this shit and these 'Attitude' and 'Thug' wanna be's what the he'll do they expect??? Wtf ???
I was raised in the 'HOOD' in meanest of the meanest Brooklyn, NYC projects and I don't talk or act or dress like that... I want respect from my peers when I am in public...
Apple Store cameras should settle this case easily. I look forward to an update on this.
Store cameras?
How about the video recorded by the plaintiffs of the confrontation? That is even better proof of discrimination than a wide angled, no sound upper three quarter viewing zoom camera.
I think a lot of people are assuming a lot of things simply because these guys had baggy clothes,
A lot of people are assuming an awful lot. Period. Nobody knows anything. Maybe the Apple employee over reacted to a perceived threat. But then again, maybe not. Maybe his inner racist came out, but then again, maybe not. Maybe the two guys were looking for trouble, but then again, maybe not. Nobody here knows and to voice an opinion as to who is guilty is sure to do nothing more than reveal prejudices.
Quote:
but if they *were* "dressed gangsta" then they should expect to be treated like gangstas.
Is there a 'how to treat a gangsta' rule book?
Quote:
People have the same rights no matter how they are dressed, but we all judge each other all day long, (it's just part of how life works), and the main criteria we use to judge people in that way, is how they dress, how they move, and how they hold themselves. Anyone who's every had to observe people for a living knows this.
"Dressing Gangsta" is literally "dressing like a criminal" and anyone who does so, especially if they have the attitude to match, should expect to be treated like they (apparently) were.
That's bull. If you dress like a criminal do I have the right to handcuff you and lock you up? We live in a world of diverse fashions and everybody knows that. How should we treat someone who dresses like a pirate (ish), or god forbid, a 'prostitute'? Criminals don't 'dress like criminals', they usually dress like bankers. At least the really bad ones do. If you see someone wearing stripes, on the other hand, its much more serious I got to admit.
Come on! No body gets treated like that in a Apple store! Apple is about as racial equal as can be.
Smells like a inside job. Investigate thouse Apple employees, security, supervisors and manager on duty. Do they know the plantiffs? Some body trying to hit up the Apple cash cow.
Emotional distress?! Dang, Grow some baseballs!
And Lawyers!!! Dang nabit, Makes me respect them a whole lot less! (A negative 2 on a scale of 1 to 10.)
Comments
Baggy clothing is not "gangsta" or "thug" or whatever you want to call it. ...Why not fear Wall Street and Congress?
Sorry, you're wrong. If I say someone is dressed like a thug or gangsta, most people would know what I meant except maybe you.
I fear Wall Street and Congress, but most of them aren't shopping next to me in the Apple store and possibly carrying guns.
I'm a black and Apple store has always treated me very well and was happy to help me out like almost any business would. Apple is happy to take anyone's money regardless of their race. These people are grifting. If those people were at the store purchasing items then I'm sure the employees would've had no problem with these people being in the store. Bottom line... I just think they are making it up.
The claims of a video feel like they walked in to make trouble and cause a scene and hopefully get it on tape for this purpose.
But having done retail LP before, I can't help but wonder if said store discovered that some software etc went missing that day. Very likely while that stink was going on. Because I've seen cases where one person or pair caused a scene while a partner was dropping stuff into shopping bags etc. Unnoticed because everyone was looking the other way. In fact it is such a common tactic that my boss told us that we were under orders not to pay attention. if that kind of shit goes down we were to put our eyes on everyone else to look for any lifters.
Don't expect facts to slow him (her?) down much.
That pretty much goes for everyone commenting on this thread. Except that there are no facts thus far, just a legal filing. But that's apparently not stopping anyone here from "knowing" what happened.
Another reason employers probably like doing business in places like China instead.
What does that mean? That China is more homogeneous therefore have less bias incidents, it could be true. If you think the Han majority is least likely to discriminate against China's ethnic minorities, not true.
But if you think Chinese people are less tribal, regional or racial discriminate that anyone else, you are out of your mind. Especially the older generation. My father's, mother's, aunt's, and uncle's racial slurs and attitudes just sickens me. China has always looked down on the rest of Asia(and the world) because of its military and cultural influance. Ghangis Khan and Imperialism were just a minor set back.
They already have a wide diversity of ethnicities in the product shots.
What? Before the iPhone, you didn't even see a hand. Just a tank rolling over the PCs (I wish :P).
And what do you base your opinion on ..... the fact that they're black? .... or wear baggy pants? You may be right .... you may be wrong ..... as for me, I'll hold judgement until more details come forth. There are always two sides to every story. cheers.
How about the fact that Apple isn't guilty until proven otherwise in a court of law? I think that alone is enough to assume the accused is innocent.
He, kind of hemmed and hawed... Then he softly told me he worked for Apple security and was monitoring the activity in the store.
Brilliant! Becoming invisible by standing out in a crowd.
Around here, that kind of thing isn't noticed.
He was doing what I did. Undercover LP. Even when I was 21-22, put me in jeans and a Harry Potter or whatever tee and I looked like a 14 year old. I worked bookstores, record stores, even an Apple store or two.
I do enough shopping at the stores that I've noticed the same guy or girl hanging out a lot. Easy money that person is a ULP. They look like they are goofing off on a computer, generally near the smaller items but they are paying attention. Sometimes if it's known that there is a chronic lifter or team in the area, they will purposefully put the same ULP in a store day after day as a set up. The team will figure out who that person is and wait for when they go on a break and walk out of the store. Unaware that there is a second ULP on duty as well, who catches them in the act with video to back it up for the courts.
Walk like a thug, talk like a thug and dress like a thug, you can't complain about the reception you get.
Do you think they would have been tossed if they were wearing an Armani suit?
Almost as ridiculous as the 2 ladies who sued McDonalds for making them fat..and WON.
Steve Jobs will never approve of this. He's a Buddhist, and a vegetarian. He's the most humble person you will ever come across. He would never consider himself a God.
You either have a very superficial knowledge of Steve Jobs or you're joking.
For some reason I don't think we are hearing the whole story. It takes time to open a sound recording application on a phone. The whole recording thing sounds premeditated.
It sounds like they were (rightfully) being discriminated against for being troublemakers. The quote said that he was not discriminating against them based on race. They were probably trying to cause trouble because they had a voice recorder app running. It sounds like they may have been violating a dress code too. You have the right not to be discriminated against based on race, but generally dress can be discriminated against. Especially if it involves display of certain body parts that naturally become exposed when wearing baggy clothing.
I don't know anyone that would kick someone out of a store (or anywhere) for race alone. The only racist people I know would act polite but consider them inferior based on race. The deep down belief that everyone has equal potential (no matter what their race) is what needs to be changed for equal rights. Seriously, people need to realize that this KKK-style racism doesn't exist anymore. Apple has a diverse employee base and I have always seen them have great respect for everyone.
I bet the store has some video footage to back up the employees.
When we lived in Las Vegas, 1964-78 a group of individual performers was known as the "Rat-Pack", Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr., Dean Martin, Joey Bishop and Peter Lawford.
Rat Pack
Many of these entertainers would appear "in-town" at different hotels, concurrently. After a show, one performer would "drop-in" on another's show -- and go onstage and perform a duet -- sometimes steal the show. Often, those not "in town" would fly in just to do the "tour".
Sometimes, a lucky audience attending, say, a Dean Martin show -- would get the whole "rat-pack" on stage -- to the enjoyment of all.
Of topic?
Not too much.
What's interesting is that the rat pack performed in the "best hotels" in Las Vegas and entertained the best audiences -- often to standing Os.
But, one of them could not stay in a hotel room within the Las Vegas City Limits. Sammy Davis Jr., because he was "black" had to stay at hotels in the City of North Las Vegas.
That was less than 50 years ago...
The people saying "dress like a gangsta and be kicked out" really don't get it. At all. People who dress gangsta have the same rights as other people. If necessary, this can be demonstrated in a courtroom, where the "gangstas" are the powerful citizen, and the megacorp is the apologetic shrinking violet who thanks the plaintiffs for teaching them an important lesson.
I think a lot of people are assuming a lot of things simply because these guys had baggy clothes, but if they *were* "dressed gangsta" then they should expect to be treated like gangstas.
People have the same rights no matter how they are dressed, but we all judge each other all day long, (it's just part of how life works), and the main criteria we use to judge people in that way, is how they dress, how they move, and how they hold themselves. Anyone who's every had to observe people for a living knows this.
"Dressing Gangsta" is literally "dressing like a criminal" and anyone who does so, especially if they have the attitude to match, should expect to be treated like they (apparently) were.
Are you kidding? Everyone in New York wears Dre Beats headphones. Apple sells them in store last time I saw.
I'm never someone to say this, but god damn this thread has a lot of racist comments.
"Dressed like a thug" or not, I guarantee you if two white guys of the same ages walked in wearing the exact same clothes, they wouldn't be told to leave. Granted, I dont know the entire story, maybe these guys were hovering around the ipads/iphones suspiciously, maybe they werent. But the supposition in this thread is pretty gross.
I am a 50 year old music producer here in NYC and have lived here all my life and I am of mixed race half puertorican/ half African American and I am always arguing with my partner of 25 years now (we are music production partners and he is African american) now I am always telling him when we go to events or meetings with record companies that he must not wear a hoody or baggy pants or t-shirts 4x his size to talk to the guys in the suits and these guys were probably NOT going to buy anything maybe just in there meddling with the equipment but I know that when I've seen people dressed this way the have manners and are proper with the sales guys , these guys were prob trying to see if the could put something in their baggy ass hoods and the apple staff were on their p's and q's
Must have noticed they weren't using anything.. And anybody wearing really baggy clothes these days are either up to no good or out of fashion cause all the young kids are wearing tight pants and fitted jeans and not so 'ghetto' yea I said it !!!
These guys are lQQking for a quick payout or fast cash IMO
"Dressing Gangsta" is literally "dressing like a criminal" and anyone who does so, especially if they have the attitude to match, should expect to be treated like they (apparently) were.
So that's why all those crooks on Wallstreet get off scott free.
I think a lot of people are assuming a lot of things simply because these guys had baggy clothes, but if they *were* "dressed gangsta" then they should expect to be treated like gangstas.
People have the same rights no matter how they are dressed, but we all judge each other all day long, (it's just part of how life works), and the main criteria we use to judge people in that way, is how they dress, how they move, and how they hold themselves. Anyone who's every had to observe people for a living knows this.
"Dressing Gangsta" is literally "dressing like a criminal" and anyone who does so, especially if they have the attitude to match, should expect to be treated like they (apparently) were.
Could not have said it any better you hit it right on the HEAD!!!
if it walks like Duck and talks like a Duck - well it probably is a duck
This will get THROWN OUT SO FAST and these idiot should prob go back to school and get edumacated !!!! GHETTO IS GHETTO does I'm so thru with this shit and these 'Attitude' and 'Thug' wanna be's what the he'll do they expect??? Wtf ???
I was raised in the 'HOOD' in meanest of the meanest Brooklyn, NYC projects and I don't talk or act or dress like that... I want respect from my peers when I am in public...
Stupid is .... Stupid does I guess ... Oh well
Which group of men is more likely to be asked to leave a store?
Apple Store cameras should settle this case easily. I look forward to an update on this.
Store cameras?
How about the video recorded by the plaintiffs of the confrontation? That is even better proof of discrimination than a wide angled, no sound upper three quarter viewing zoom camera.
I think a lot of people are assuming a lot of things simply because these guys had baggy clothes,
A lot of people are assuming an awful lot. Period. Nobody knows anything. Maybe the Apple employee over reacted to a perceived threat. But then again, maybe not. Maybe his inner racist came out, but then again, maybe not. Maybe the two guys were looking for trouble, but then again, maybe not. Nobody here knows and to voice an opinion as to who is guilty is sure to do nothing more than reveal prejudices.
but if they *were* "dressed gangsta" then they should expect to be treated like gangstas.
Is there a 'how to treat a gangsta' rule book?
People have the same rights no matter how they are dressed, but we all judge each other all day long, (it's just part of how life works), and the main criteria we use to judge people in that way, is how they dress, how they move, and how they hold themselves. Anyone who's every had to observe people for a living knows this.
"Dressing Gangsta" is literally "dressing like a criminal" and anyone who does so, especially if they have the attitude to match, should expect to be treated like they (apparently) were.
That's bull. If you dress like a criminal do I have the right to handcuff you and lock you up? We live in a world of diverse fashions and everybody knows that. How should we treat someone who dresses like a pirate (ish), or god forbid, a 'prostitute'? Criminals don't 'dress like criminals', they usually dress like bankers. At least the really bad ones do. If you see someone wearing stripes, on the other hand, its much more serious I got to admit.
VERY DANGEROUS MAN!
Smells like a inside job. Investigate thouse Apple employees, security, supervisors and manager on duty. Do they know the plantiffs? Some body trying to hit up the Apple cash cow.
Emotional distress?! Dang, Grow some baseballs!
And Lawyers!!! Dang nabit, Makes me respect them a whole lot less! (A negative 2 on a scale of 1 to 10.)