I think the SIM-less design makes sense if Apple can get carriers to sign off on it. Apple needs to persuade carriers that it can do a better job selling iPhones than they can. They may have done that. What could be very disruptive is if Apple can sell the iPhone at a fixed price - say $199 - and get carriers to subsidise based on the number of customers Apple is sending their way rather than on a per phone basis. Then a customer can just select the plan that's best for them straight from their phone. That might mean lowering margins but might also mean selling a hell of a lot more phones.
Everyone always looks at this from the US perspective. This may make some sort of sense in teh US, but Apple is playing in the international market. In Australia and many other countries the iphone is sold unlocked. I am on my 3rd iphone and each time I upgrade I just change out the sim and I am sure that there are many others who do the same. The hassel that would be involved with having to deal with a carrier would be a real disincentive to upgrading. Being able to swap out the sim also makes it easy to pass on your old phone. Each time I upgrade, my wife gets the old model. So I really hope they don't do this.
Everyone always looks at this from the US perspective. This may make some sort of sense in teh US, but Apple is playing in the international market. In Australia and many other countries the iphone is sold unlocked. I am on my 3rd iphone and each time I upgrade I just change out the sim and I am sure that there are many others who do the same. The hassel that would be involved with having to deal with a carrier would be a real disincentive to upgrading. Being able to swap out the sim also makes it easy to pass on your old phone. Each time I upgrade, my wife gets the old model. So I really hope they don't do this.
And the tens of people who are saying this are implying that there won't be an equally easy way for you to swap carriers and give old phones to your significant others.
I don't understand the resistance of carriers to eliminate the SIM card. Verizon, and all CDMA phones already are SIM free. You can still lock the phone so it only works with the one carrier, so you can't easily switch without permission. (ie, has the Verizon iPhone been unlocked yet??)
The swappable sim card lets you more easily swap out phones than it does allow you to swap out carriers. Carriers can still sell their contracts. Users can more easily purchase different plans, directly on the phone. Imagine if you were traveling to a different country. You could simply turn on the phone, and it would select services that are available in your area, and you sign up! With SIM service, you have to actually go FIND a SIM card. Many likely just don't use their phones during that time. I guess the only time the carriers would have a loss is in the ridiculous charges they place on you for worldwide roaming.
That doesn't contradict what he said. If Apple and Orange (wait, I just realized the humor of that pairing...) are working to create a new SIM standard, then if Apple changes to it, it won't be a change to a "non-standard" SIM.
I see, if they submit it to standards bodies and have it open to all then it's a standard for all intents and purposes.
If this is really an Orange and Apple endevadour I think the chances of this being called: SIM Seed, Pip SIM, Pepin, or simply Pip?
I know Sony did that with the Cell processor, but that was to get 7 of 8 SPEs, which seems reasonable. Intentionally producing a dual-core chip to settle for 1 of 2 cores seems wasteful and counterproductive.
I would say that the "SIM-less" part makes no sense and without that, this is the exact same as every rumour we've heard so far with the exception of the date being (slightly) sooner.
Yep.
It isn't SIM less, it's a digital SIM that is all in the software and not a removable card
People, on this forum, need to get over their American fixation. The main reason to go world phone is China. But anyway, it would reduce the manufacturing costs.
It would also reduce travelling costs for people who travel to these places, if they can get a simless iPhone, and put whatever they want in.
I sure hope this is true. I work in China and the US about 30/60 of time respectively. My first trip, I went to the Apple store to figure out if there was a non-Jailbreak way to use my iPhone and iPad for 3G in China. However, there is really no way for Apple to help me (according to the nice Chinese Geniuses). And AT&T told me the iPad was a "World Device". The nice Chinese Apple guys told me both the USA iPhone and iPad are locked down to their carriers and there is no way for me to use China Unicom or China Mobile for my 3G data because they were locked down to AT&T. Plus, China Mobile has not locked down a deal with Apple yet anyway. The only way to truly get Data and Phone on a USA iPhone or iPad (legitimately) would be to purchase one in China. Of course you can jailbreak, but that's not the point. Something needs to be done so we're not locked into our carriers that like to charge $1 per Megabit of Download (AT&T). I mean why bother offering something that could cost me upwards of $10k/mo for 3G data? that's frackin' crazy. Plus most WiFi (except for in more westernized Restaurants) require a China Carrier account (meaning a China phone, username and password) to use the WiFi...even at Starbucks!
The only way to get 3G data or voice in China on the iPhone is to Jailbreak. The only way to get 3G data on the iPad is to purchase a plan through China Unicom (with a base $180 rate + an annual data plan) and have them physically cut the card down to fit in the micro-sim slot. I've read about people doing this without problems, but frankly, that's an expensive risk to take. Not to mention it's still a "plan" service. So if you don't intend to return to China, it's still going to cost you a boat-load to get 3G.
I'm all for the Sim-less service!!! Having WiFi in China is nice when you can get it, but not being able to use 3G on the go in these huge cities makes me feel like i'm back in the dark ages.
I think my next trip i'm going to get an old (contract-less) iPhone and just force AT&T to unlock it so I can have a dedicated iPhone for China. My boss (in Beijing) did this...actually he had someone there jailbreak it so he could use his USA phone in China, and he has a 2nd phone for the USA.
It isn't SIM less, it's a digital SIM that is all in the software and not a removable card
And it's not like a SIM is some magical shard the Skeksies want to destroy. The data still has to be extrapolated to a virtual layer just like a NiCs BiA (burned in address) represents the MAC address but can spoofed.
I think the inevitable outcome for the handshake between a device and a telco will be unique sequence, perhaps with a secondary PIN/passcode for added security, that you put into the device. International traveler could simply restart the device to choose the country/carier from a list, or perhaps it could be intelligent enough to auto switch when you switch tower ownership.
Comments
I think the SIM-less design makes sense if Apple can get carriers to sign off on it. Apple needs to persuade carriers that it can do a better job selling iPhones than they can. They may have done that. What could be very disruptive is if Apple can sell the iPhone at a fixed price - say $199 - and get carriers to subsidise based on the number of customers Apple is sending their way rather than on a per phone basis. Then a customer can just select the plan that's best for them straight from their phone. That might mean lowering margins but might also mean selling a hell of a lot more phones.
Everyone always looks at this from the US perspective. This may make some sort of sense in teh US, but Apple is playing in the international market. In Australia and many other countries the iphone is sold unlocked. I am on my 3rd iphone and each time I upgrade I just change out the sim and I am sure that there are many others who do the same. The hassel that would be involved with having to deal with a carrier would be a real disincentive to upgrading. Being able to swap out the sim also makes it easy to pass on your old phone. Each time I upgrade, my wife gets the old model. So I really hope they don't do this.
Everyone always looks at this from the US perspective. This may make some sort of sense in teh US, but Apple is playing in the international market. In Australia and many other countries the iphone is sold unlocked. I am on my 3rd iphone and each time I upgrade I just change out the sim and I am sure that there are many others who do the same. The hassel that would be involved with having to deal with a carrier would be a real disincentive to upgrading. Being able to swap out the sim also makes it easy to pass on your old phone. Each time I upgrade, my wife gets the old model. So I really hope they don't do this.
And the tens of people who are saying this are implying that there won't be an equally easy way for you to swap carriers and give old phones to your significant others.
You have no proof of this.
2013... Gosh, I am running my EVO 4G since mid 2010 currently registering 10.6 mbps data speeds.
You must be Moses then because sprint (the whatever company) caps their outsourced "4G" at 5 Mb down and 1 up.
Oh and that 4 G is anything but. It's actually wimax and the coverage is so scant it's pathetic.
Try this BS in another forum
2013... Gosh, I am running my EVO 4G since mid 2010 currently registering 10.6 mbps data speeds.
Yep and you switch out your batteries every 3 hours too.
The swappable sim card lets you more easily swap out phones than it does allow you to swap out carriers. Carriers can still sell their contracts. Users can more easily purchase different plans, directly on the phone. Imagine if you were traveling to a different country. You could simply turn on the phone, and it would select services that are available in your area, and you sign up! With SIM service, you have to actually go FIND a SIM card. Many likely just don't use their phones during that time. I guess the only time the carriers would have a loss is in the ridiculous charges they place on you for worldwide roaming.
That doesn't contradict what he said. If Apple and Orange (wait, I just realized the humor of that pairing...) are working to create a new SIM standard, then if Apple changes to it, it won't be a change to a "non-standard" SIM.
I see, if they submit it to standards bodies and have it open to all then it's a standard for all intents and purposes.
If this is really an Orange and Apple endevadour I think the chances of this being called: SIM Seed, Pip SIM, Pepin, or simply Pip?
I think they can do that with software/firmware.
I know Sony did that with the Cell processor, but that was to get 7 of 8 SPEs, which seems reasonable. Intentionally producing a dual-core chip to settle for 1 of 2 cores seems wasteful and counterproductive.
I would say that the "SIM-less" part makes no sense and without that, this is the exact same as every rumour we've heard so far with the exception of the date being (slightly) sooner.
Yep.
It isn't SIM less, it's a digital SIM that is all in the software and not a removable card
2013... Gosh, I am running my EVO 4G since mid 2010 currently registering 10.6 mbps data speeds.
Hope you don't travel much as the 4G or LTE coverage is very spotty at best.
This.
People, on this forum, need to get over their American fixation. The main reason to go world phone is China. But anyway, it would reduce the manufacturing costs.
It would also reduce travelling costs for people who travel to these places, if they can get a simless iPhone, and put whatever they want in.
I sure hope this is true. I work in China and the US about 30/60 of time respectively. My first trip, I went to the Apple store to figure out if there was a non-Jailbreak way to use my iPhone and iPad for 3G in China. However, there is really no way for Apple to help me (according to the nice Chinese Geniuses). And AT&T told me the iPad was a "World Device". The nice Chinese Apple guys told me both the USA iPhone and iPad are locked down to their carriers and there is no way for me to use China Unicom or China Mobile for my 3G data because they were locked down to AT&T. Plus, China Mobile has not locked down a deal with Apple yet anyway. The only way to truly get Data and Phone on a USA iPhone or iPad (legitimately) would be to purchase one in China. Of course you can jailbreak, but that's not the point. Something needs to be done so we're not locked into our carriers that like to charge $1 per Megabit of Download (AT&T). I mean why bother offering something that could cost me upwards of $10k/mo for 3G data? that's frackin' crazy. Plus most WiFi (except for in more westernized Restaurants) require a China Carrier account (meaning a China phone, username and password) to use the WiFi...even at Starbucks!
The only way to get 3G data or voice in China on the iPhone is to Jailbreak. The only way to get 3G data on the iPad is to purchase a plan through China Unicom (with a base $180 rate + an annual data plan) and have them physically cut the card down to fit in the micro-sim slot. I've read about people doing this without problems, but frankly, that's an expensive risk to take. Not to mention it's still a "plan" service. So if you don't intend to return to China, it's still going to cost you a boat-load to get 3G.
I'm all for the Sim-less service!!! Having WiFi in China is nice when you can get it, but not being able to use 3G on the go in these huge cities makes me feel like i'm back in the dark ages.
I think my next trip i'm going to get an old (contract-less) iPhone and just force AT&T to unlock it so I can have a dedicated iPhone for China. My boss (in Beijing) did this...actually he had someone there jailbreak it so he could use his USA phone in China, and he has a 2nd phone for the USA.
Yep.
It isn't SIM less, it's a digital SIM that is all in the software and not a removable card
And it's not like a SIM is some magical shard the Skeksies want to destroy. The data still has to be extrapolated to a virtual layer just like a NiCs BiA (burned in address) represents the MAC address but can spoofed.
I think the inevitable outcome for the handshake between a device and a telco will be unique sequence, perhaps with a secondary PIN/passcode for added security, that you put into the device. International traveler could simply restart the device to choose the country/carier from a list, or perhaps it could be intelligent enough to auto switch when you switch tower ownership.