News and a quick FYI... I moved every App I considered to be a utility to my utilities folder in Snow Leopard... so... Lion... didn't replace those apps when it installed... but it created the new iCal for example in the Apps folder... i however still had the iCal app icon in my Dock... so when i ran iCal from there i was running the Snow Leopard iCal and it crashed... i now have binned the old iCal and the Lion iCal works fine... it was in my Apps folder... "Calabaration.app" by the was is not a misspelling in your apps folder... its the Google and all calendar "merger" for iCal.
So if you have moved your apps about like me... you will need to go and find the old Snow Leopard Apps... and bin them... cos Lion can't find them !
One more piece of advice to all Lion immigrants... open Disk Utility and repair permissions on your drive... its spent 12 mins and repaired a monster stack of permission issues.
It's funny, but ever since 10.2 (when I switched), I've been really excited about every new release of OS X - even Snow Leopard because of the huge performance gains it gave Intel machines.
For the first time I'm not excited. Not only that, but actually not sure about this release. It seems to be dumbing down the OS - I honestly don't want me computer to be like an iOS device. I like my iPad for being an iPad... and I like my Mac for being, well, a Mac.
I feel the same way. Until now I was nonetheless planning to upgrade to Lion, simply to stay up to date. But if Rosetta is really being dumped -- still a big if -- suddenly it seems that the disadvantages greatly outweigh the ever-so-modest benefits that Lion promises.
I feel the same way. Until now I was nonetheless planning to upgrade to Lion, simply to stay up to date. But if Rosetta is really being dumped -- still a big if -- suddenly it seems that the disadvantages greatly outweigh the ever-so-modest benefits that Lion promises.
Why is it somehow still a big if? It's gone. Kaputsky. Finito.
I'm trying to avoid jumping to conclusions based solely on the latest developer release. Am I being overly cautious? Perhaps.
The idiom "jump to conclusions" implies a leap where the facts presented don't warrant the conclusion. It is not a rational and logical conclusion based on the available evidence. Look at hypotheses, theory and scientific method for examples.
We know Rosetta has not been in any of the 4 Previews. We know it only runs on 64-bit processors, excluding even the 32-bit Intel processors. We know Snow Leopard already required the system to be Intel-based. We now Apple has a history of ditching legacy code and HW whenever it can. We know when Apple stopped selling PPC-based Macs.
What I don't know is why you think it's not just an "if" but "a big if. I'd say it would be better to not confuse (what reads as) skepticism with prudence. I would have written your sentence as "But if Rosetta is really being dumped, as the Lion betas suggest, suddenly it seems that the disadvantages greatly outweigh the benefits of Lion for my particular needs." In that sentence I qualify my statement by acknowledging that it is not included.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Has Apple ever held off a core feature in every single developer release only to bring it back in the GM?
I know they've removed prominent features they initially touted (like RI in Tiger) and they've added some minor features along the way in the betas, but I can't think of any instance where they removed, disassociated and then readied a major codebase at the last minute.
I know they've removed prominent features they initially touted (like RI in Leopard) and they've added some minor features along the way in the betas, but I can't think of any instance where they removed, disassociated and then readied a major codebase at the last minute.
Oh, sure, they've told developers to get ready for resolution independence since Tiger was in beta.
And I remember one of Leopard's features was the ability to have all your windows open exactly the way you left them as you booted back and forth between OS X and Windows in Boot Camp. That was mentioned on Apple's Leopard page on its website... for about an hour... it was completely removed without any traces or explanation almost immediately (I remember someone on MacRumors who knew an Apple employee working on that team talking about his (the employee's) horror at hearing about that being online, and then subsequently getting it removed), but beyond that...
I would have written your sentence as "But if Rosetta is really being dumped, as the Lion betas suggest, suddenly it seems that the disadvantages greatly outweigh the benefits of Lion for my particular needs."
Yep, that's a fair re-write. FWIW, I haven't been following the various previews, and the article that this thread is based upon only mentions the most recent preview. So now that I know that Rosetta has been missing from every preview seen so far, I'll certainly grant that it's close to certain that Rosetta is dead in the water.
I'm a believer of keeping things updated, but sometimes certain migrations become problematic. In my case, a very popular app (Quicken 2007) won't run without Lion. And another app (Filemaker Pro) is very expensive to upgrade.
I'd sure like to see Rosetta stay. After all, we're not asking for OS9 apps to run -)
But there are other reasons besides just being stubborn, that makes upgrading either problematic or extremely expensive.
I've got a MacPro, an iMac (both Late 2008 Editions) and a iMac about 3 years old. All run Snow Leopard now. All 3 of the Intel Macs run separate licensed copies of Filemaker Pro 7. And all 3 have large memory upgrades installed, as they also have Fusion for Mac for Windows.
Without Rosetta, that Filemaker upgrade will be a $299 x 3 = $897 Pretty hefty price to go with Lion's "no Rosetta". Filemaker is Apple, right? So that $29.95 Lion upgrade is going to come to $1,000 to run the same app on Lion on the 3 Mac Intels, when updating on Lion.
Also, Quicken 2007 for Mac, the only real Quicken that is worth running on Mac, doesn't port to Intel yet. Quicken released QEM (Quicken Essentials for Mac) that will run on Intel platform, but the release is trashed by every reviewer out there, as the release lost 90% of its functionality.
All the "everything, everywhere" integrations of Lion's iCloud sound great, but I use these machines more for business than consumer.
Does anyone think Lion is intended as a business OSX, or is Apple really going more toward their "Apple Inc" consumer products for the masses with this release?
Just wondering what the opinions are of those who have used Lion. Thanks!
And another app (Filemaker Pro) is very expensive to upgrade.
That's made by Apple. There'll be an update.
There isn't an update from FileMaker Pro 7 (circa 2004) - it's now too old to qualify for an upgrade to the current v11, so it means buying 3 new full licenses. rusty0101's point is that it's expensive ($897 for 3 licenses) so the upgrade to Lion suddenly isn't so cheap.
FileMaker Pro 7 has worked in the latest Mac OS for 7 years, so I think it's had a good run. My experience with FileMaker is that you could skip a version, but it was worth paying for an upgrade every 3 years or so to avoid getting left behind. (Same with Adobe stuff, which is even more expensive)
One more piece of advice to all Lion immigrants... open Disk Utility and repair permissions on your drive... its spent 12 mins and repaired a monster stack of permission issues.
Yeah - I do that after any major updates and or software installs.
Yeah we have a choice. Put a partition or an external disk with 10.6 on it. If Quicken or Apple doesn't do something, we will have to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkevwill
Yeah actually we do have a choice, put a 10.6 partition on your HD. Thing that bothers me about this whole thing, is the software makers should design their software to work on the computers. Its in THEIR best interest to make their software compatible with the latest OS. Quicken needs to be upgraded anyway. To not do so, is just plain laziness.
I did not mean there are NO alternatives - just that for the simplest option for someone who wants to move to 10.7 continuing to use software which has been replaced is not an option.
Sure it would be great if every software vendor continued to support every product that anyone still used - but that is not reality.
As far as Quicken Essentials is concerned - I have been using it for a couple months now and for me it does everything that I need it to do.
There isn't an update from FileMaker Pro 7 (circa 2004)
That's your problem, then. Seven years have passed since then, and there IS an update. You either pay for the update that actually exists or keep using old computers until the end of time.
Quote:
...it was worth paying for an upgrade every 3 years or so to avoid getting left behind
I've got a MacPro, an iMac (both Late 2008 Editions) and a iMac about 3 years old. All run Snow Leopard now. All 3 of the Intel Macs run separate licensed copies of Filemaker Pro 7. And all 3 have large memory upgrades installed, as they also have Fusion for Mac for Windows.
Without Rosetta, that Filemaker upgrade will be a $299 x 3 = $897 Pretty hefty price to go with Lion's "no Rosetta". Filemaker is Apple, right? So that $29.95 Lion upgrade is going to come to $1,000 to run the same app on Lion on the 3 Mac Intels, when updating on Lion.
Lets be fair - you are using software that was released in 2004!
Filemaker Pro 7 is 7 years old this year!
The simple answer is - don't upgrade to Lion. No one is making you upgrade.
Lets be fair - you are using software that was released in 2004!
Filemaker Pro 7 is 7 years old this year!
The simple answer is - don't upgrade to Lion. No one is making you upgrade.
(Anyway, Ebay is showing boxed FMP9 for $80.)
Thanks everyone for the comments. Everyone had some good positions to bring to the subject.
I sure wish I knew about FMP9 before I just bought 2 latest version FMP's. Waiting to get the 3rd license until we can afford it. We really only have 2 people using 3 Macs, 2 in the office and 1 in the partner's home.
The partner can still connect to the Mac at the office via Screen Sharing (at least I hope its still there in Lion). We also use Acclivity Network Edition for the Mac (Business Acctg Pkg) and pay monthly for all support w/included upgrades.
Office 2008 is on all Macs right now.
Someone responded the Mac is not a business machine. I'm surprised of that opinion. I've bought Macs since the 1st one released. And I thought OSX, Fusion for Mac on beefy hardware and RAM, has been a real winner.
I keep the MacPro on 24/7 with Windows XP or 7 running and probably 30 applications across both platforms. And to think, neither have ever crashed \ (ah, the luxury of tons of RAM memory).
Of course I do restart once a week or when updates require along with Disk Permissions maintenance. Use 2 separate backups, one to an internet spare HD and another to an external Firewire. Use Carbon Copy on the External HD and Time Machine on the Internal spare HD.
So, besides price points, theres no reason to run two separate machines anymore. I position Mac OSX on one 23" display, and Fusion for MAC's running OS (Windows) on the 2nd 23" monitor. Yes, displays can be set up anyway you want. It's just easy, real-estate wise, to click on the display of each OS to "bring-to-front" that OS.
One contributor mentioned booting Snow Leopord on a separate drive for abandoned Rosetta apps, like Quicken 2007. I guess that's the way I'll have to go. I don't want to loose 20 years of data. And until an Intel OSX app can do full home accounting, there's really no choice.
Comments
News and a quick FYI... I moved every App I considered to be a utility to my utilities folder in Snow Leopard... so... Lion... didn't replace those apps when it installed... but it created the new iCal for example in the Apps folder... i however still had the iCal app icon in my Dock... so when i ran iCal from there i was running the Snow Leopard iCal and it crashed... i now have binned the old iCal and the Lion iCal works fine... it was in my Apps folder... "Calabaration.app" by the was is not a misspelling in your apps folder... its the Google and all calendar "merger" for iCal.
So if you have moved your apps about like me... you will need to go and find the old Snow Leopard Apps... and bin them... cos Lion can't find them !
Cheers
g
It's funny, but ever since 10.2 (when I switched), I've been really excited about every new release of OS X - even Snow Leopard because of the huge performance gains it gave Intel machines.
For the first time I'm not excited. Not only that, but actually not sure about this release. It seems to be dumbing down the OS - I honestly don't want me computer to be like an iOS device. I like my iPad for being an iPad... and I like my Mac for being, well, a Mac.
I feel the same way. Until now I was nonetheless planning to upgrade to Lion, simply to stay up to date. But if Rosetta is really being dumped -- still a big if -- suddenly it seems that the disadvantages greatly outweigh the ever-so-modest benefits that Lion promises.
I feel the same way. Until now I was nonetheless planning to upgrade to Lion, simply to stay up to date. But if Rosetta is really being dumped -- still a big if -- suddenly it seems that the disadvantages greatly outweigh the ever-so-modest benefits that Lion promises.
Why is it somehow still a big if? It's gone. Kaputsky. Finito.
Why is it somehow still a big if? It's gone. Kaputsky. Finito.
I'm trying to avoid jumping to conclusions based solely on the latest developer release. Am I being overly cautious? Perhaps.
I'm trying to avoid jumping to conclusions based solely on the latest developer release. Am I being overly cautious? Perhaps.
You think Java's going to be included in the release, too? Maybe they'll also drop Mission Control altogether.
Has Apple ever held off a core feature in every single developer release only to bring it back in the GM?
I'm trying to avoid jumping to conclusions based solely on the latest developer release. Am I being overly cautious? Perhaps.
The idiom "jump to conclusions" implies a leap where the facts presented don't warrant the conclusion. It is not a rational and logical conclusion based on the available evidence. Look at hypotheses, theory and scientific method for examples.
We know Rosetta has not been in any of the 4 Previews. We know it only runs on 64-bit processors, excluding even the 32-bit Intel processors. We know Snow Leopard already required the system to be Intel-based. We now Apple has a history of ditching legacy code and HW whenever it can. We know when Apple stopped selling PPC-based Macs.
What I don't know is why you think it's not just an "if" but "a big if. I'd say it would be better to not confuse (what reads as) skepticism with prudence. I would have written your sentence as "But if Rosetta is really being dumped, as the Lion betas suggest, suddenly it seems that the disadvantages greatly outweigh the benefits of Lion for my particular needs." In that sentence I qualify my statement by acknowledging that it is not included.
Has Apple ever held off a core feature in every single developer release only to bring it back in the GM?
I know they've removed prominent features they initially touted (like RI in Tiger) and they've added some minor features along the way in the betas, but I can't think of any instance where they removed, disassociated and then readied a major codebase at the last minute.
I know they've removed prominent features they initially touted (like RI in Leopard) and they've added some minor features along the way in the betas, but I can't think of any instance where they removed, disassociated and then readied a major codebase at the last minute.
Oh, sure, they've told developers to get ready for resolution independence since Tiger was in beta.
And I remember one of Leopard's features was the ability to have all your windows open exactly the way you left them as you booted back and forth between OS X and Windows in Boot Camp. That was mentioned on Apple's Leopard page on its website... for about an hour... it was completely removed without any traces or explanation almost immediately (I remember someone on MacRumors who knew an Apple employee working on that team talking about his (the employee's) horror at hearing about that being online, and then subsequently getting it removed), but beyond that...
I would have written your sentence as "But if Rosetta is really being dumped, as the Lion betas suggest, suddenly it seems that the disadvantages greatly outweigh the benefits of Lion for my particular needs."
Yep, that's a fair re-write. FWIW, I haven't been following the various previews, and the article that this thread is based upon only mentions the most recent preview. So now that I know that Rosetta has been missing from every preview seen so far, I'll certainly grant that it's close to certain that Rosetta is dead in the water.
I'd sure like to see Rosetta stay. After all, we're not asking for OS9 apps to run -)
But there are other reasons besides just being stubborn, that makes upgrading either problematic or extremely expensive.
I've got a MacPro, an iMac (both Late 2008 Editions) and a iMac about 3 years old. All run Snow Leopard now. All 3 of the Intel Macs run separate licensed copies of Filemaker Pro 7. And all 3 have large memory upgrades installed, as they also have Fusion for Mac for Windows.
Without Rosetta, that Filemaker upgrade will be a $299 x 3 = $897 Pretty hefty price to go with Lion's "no Rosetta". Filemaker is Apple, right? So that $29.95 Lion upgrade is going to come to $1,000 to run the same app on Lion on the 3 Mac Intels, when updating on Lion.
Also, Quicken 2007 for Mac, the only real Quicken that is worth running on Mac, doesn't port to Intel yet. Quicken released QEM (Quicken Essentials for Mac) that will run on Intel platform, but the release is trashed by every reviewer out there, as the release lost 90% of its functionality.
All the "everything, everywhere" integrations of Lion's iCloud sound great, but I use these machines more for business than consumer.
Does anyone think Lion is intended as a business OSX, or is Apple really going more toward their "Apple Inc" consumer products for the masses with this release?
Just wondering what the opinions are of those who have used Lion. Thanks!
a very popular app (Quicken 2007) won't run without Lion.
You mean Rosetta, right? And who cares? That's their fault. They need to update it or you need to find someone else. Pretty darn simple.
And another app (Filemaker Pro) is very expensive to upgrade.
That's made by Apple. There'll be an update.
I'd sure like to see Rosetta stay. After all, we're not asking for OS9 apps to run -)
No, but you're asking for the exact equivalent thereof. Mac OS 9 runs in Lion, by the way.
Does anyone think Lion is intended as a business OSX
OS X has never been a "business" OS. This is no exception.
And another app (Filemaker Pro) is very expensive to upgrade.
That's made by Apple. There'll be an update.
There isn't an update from FileMaker Pro 7 (circa 2004) - it's now too old to qualify for an upgrade to the current v11, so it means buying 3 new full licenses. rusty0101's point is that it's expensive ($897 for 3 licenses) so the upgrade to Lion suddenly isn't so cheap.
FileMaker Pro 7 has worked in the latest Mac OS for 7 years, so I think it's had a good run. My experience with FileMaker is that you could skip a version, but it was worth paying for an upgrade every 3 years or so to avoid getting left behind. (Same with Adobe stuff, which is even more expensive)
One more piece of advice to all Lion immigrants... open Disk Utility and repair permissions on your drive... its spent 12 mins and repaired a monster stack of permission issues.
Yeah - I do that after any major updates and or software installs.
Yeah we have a choice. Put a partition or an external disk with 10.6 on it. If Quicken or Apple doesn't do something, we will have to.
Yeah actually we do have a choice, put a 10.6 partition on your HD. Thing that bothers me about this whole thing, is the software makers should design their software to work on the computers. Its in THEIR best interest to make their software compatible with the latest OS. Quicken needs to be upgraded anyway. To not do so, is just plain laziness.
I did not mean there are NO alternatives - just that for the simplest option for someone who wants to move to 10.7 continuing to use software which has been replaced is not an option.
Sure it would be great if every software vendor continued to support every product that anyone still used - but that is not reality.
As far as Quicken Essentials is concerned - I have been using it for a couple months now and for me it does everything that I need it to do.
There isn't an update from FileMaker Pro 7 (circa 2004)
That's your problem, then. Seven years have passed since then, and there IS an update. You either pay for the update that actually exists or keep using old computers until the end of time.
...it was worth paying for an upgrade every 3 years or so to avoid getting left behind
So why haven't you?
I'
I've got a MacPro, an iMac (both Late 2008 Editions) and a iMac about 3 years old. All run Snow Leopard now. All 3 of the Intel Macs run separate licensed copies of Filemaker Pro 7. And all 3 have large memory upgrades installed, as they also have Fusion for Mac for Windows.
Without Rosetta, that Filemaker upgrade will be a $299 x 3 = $897 Pretty hefty price to go with Lion's "no Rosetta". Filemaker is Apple, right? So that $29.95 Lion upgrade is going to come to $1,000 to run the same app on Lion on the 3 Mac Intels, when updating on Lion.
Lets be fair - you are using software that was released in 2004!
Filemaker Pro 7 is 7 years old this year!
The simple answer is - don't upgrade to Lion. No one is making you upgrade.
(Anyway, Ebay is showing boxed FMP9 for $80.)
Lets be fair - you are using software that was released in 2004!
Filemaker Pro 7 is 7 years old this year!
The simple answer is - don't upgrade to Lion. No one is making you upgrade.
(Anyway, Ebay is showing boxed FMP9 for $80.)
Thanks everyone for the comments. Everyone had some good positions to bring to the subject.
I sure wish I knew about FMP9 before I just bought 2 latest version FMP's. Waiting to get the 3rd license until we can afford it. We really only have 2 people using 3 Macs, 2 in the office and 1 in the partner's home.
The partner can still connect to the Mac at the office via Screen Sharing (at least I hope its still there in Lion). We also use Acclivity Network Edition for the Mac (Business Acctg Pkg) and pay monthly for all support w/included upgrades.
Office 2008 is on all Macs right now.
Someone responded the Mac is not a business machine. I'm surprised of that opinion. I've bought Macs since the 1st one released. And I thought OSX, Fusion for Mac on beefy hardware and RAM, has been a real winner.
I keep the MacPro on 24/7 with Windows XP or 7 running and probably 30 applications across both platforms. And to think, neither have ever crashed
Of course I do restart once a week or when updates require along with Disk Permissions maintenance. Use 2 separate backups, one to an internet spare HD and another to an external Firewire. Use Carbon Copy on the External HD and Time Machine on the Internal spare HD.
So, besides price points, theres no reason to run two separate machines anymore. I position Mac OSX on one 23" display, and Fusion for MAC's running OS (Windows) on the 2nd 23" monitor. Yes, displays can be set up anyway you want. It's just easy, real-estate wise, to click on the display of each OS to "bring-to-front" that OS.
One contributor mentioned booting Snow Leopord on a separate drive for abandoned Rosetta apps, like Quicken 2007. I guess that's the way I'll have to go. I don't want to loose 20 years of data. And until an Intel OSX app can do full home accounting, there's really no choice.
I finally got around to checking my apps and ran across some listed as "Universal". Are these Lion compatible?
That would mean Intel. So yes.