Not unless the iPhone comes out with a keyboard version. I love my iphone, but for everyday business communicator use, my 9650 is superior. Oh, and our corporate email has to be on BB, not iPhones, at least at present.
Don't go by the keyboard. I'm not saying that no one wants one anymore, but fewer phones are made with one, and there's a reason for that. The problem for RIM has been that their version was a bomb, in that it was terrible. The Storm was revised three times, and still didn't sell.
More people are used to touch keyboards. I know of a number of people who have moved from the BB to iPhones and Android phones, and after some period of nervousness, are now pretty happy with the switch.
I wouldn't be surprised if ten years from now some little kid will look up from her touch screen and say; "Daddy, tell me about those funny buttons you used to use."
Moto & S-E are both earning razor thin profits, RIM is probably still 2nd or 3rd highest profits out of the handset makers. Which position would you prefer to be in, a commodity shifter of boxes running somebody elses OS on which you earn effectively nothing, or the sole maker of handsets on a successful, albeit stagnant proprietary OS which earns substantial profits?
To put this into perspective, RIM made $695mil net income for the quarter. Our last figures for Moto were 2010Q4 when they made 110mil, and our last for Sony-Ericcson were 2011Q1 - of 11mil. Short of a miracle, RIM made more in the first quarter than Moto & S-E combined will make in the entire year.
So if RIM is in the toilet, Moto & S-E have already been flushed.
Well, Moto is now a smaller company. That's very true. But they've been doing better, and RIM is doing worse. So which way would you prefer to be going, up or down?
S-E is different. They're not doing great, but as I mentioned they've got two big and strong companies behind them. RIM is on their own.
Right now, RIM has to execute perfectly. Any problem, and they're in more trouble. Forget about Moto and S-E for now.
But I'll tell you something. It's in Apples' best interest for both Nokia and RIm to be doing well. That goes for the others as well. It's the old divide and conquer. If these companies go down, then it's pretty much Android and iOS phones. In that case, I can see Android getting 75% of the market. Apple would have to work very hard to change that. And with Android having that much share, much development would shift to them, even though their owners are cheap, And don't buy much of anything.
But with more companies in play, it will be harder for Android to get above 50%. and that would be better for Apple, even if their share is 20%. I don't believe that WP7 will ever get to 20% as both IDc and Gartner say.
One person does not a trend make or mirror the masses, but one friend who had a BB for years recently gave up on RIM and bought a Sprint Evo. Don't know what BB she had or how old it was, but said she got tired of the corny web browser and phone crashing (my manager who bought a Storm at launch also complained of it crashing and recently got a Droid Something). I think many business folks will always buy BB, but the avg consumer wants a bigger screen, apps, video, etc and just what iOS and Android users have.
you think they can go much lower?...I started buying Puts on April 13...made 5 figures could have been 6 if I kept the position open up to today. I may dip back in tomorrow for a quick scalp.
It's a danger right now. There's no way to be sure which way the stock will blow over the short term. Over the longer term, I think it will have problems.
Well, Moto is now a smaller company. That's very true. But they've been doing better, and RIM is doing worse. So which way would you prefer to be going, up or down?
There was an article on Asymco a while ago that basically said that there had never been a case of a handset maker recovering once they'd lost profitibility - if they're right then RIM is in a far better position. In the case of Moto their profits aren't rising because of increased market-share, but thanks to aggressive cost cutting and their market switching from dumbphones to smartphones. The phrase 'dead-cat bounce' springs to mind.
Quote:
S-E is different. They're not doing great, but as I mentioned they've got two big and strong companies behind them. RIM is on their own.
Yes but eventually mummy & daddy will take a deep breath and turn off the life-support machine. S-E is particularly bad for Sony because it damages their brand by association with failure. At some point they will either sell it or merge it into yet another handset maker - Nokia perhaps, since misery loves company.
Quote:
Right now, RIM has to execute perfectly. Any problem, and they're in more trouble. Forget about Moto and S-E for now.
I certainly wouldn't argue with that, but I think they can continue to serve their core market of enterprise users with a promise of security and attention to enterprise needs. Apple doesn't really play to enterprise, it's a consumer oriented firm deep in its bones - and android is terrifying to enterprise users. RIMs biggest threat in its core market is probably from WP7 - since Microsoft does understand enterprise users, even if the relationship between them is an abusive one - enterprise customers feel safe with Microsoft even as it slaps them around, shouts at them and tells them it's all their fault.
As for Android, I don't expect it to ever totally dominate the mobile market, because Google just don't need it to. Once MS are beaten back and the mobile market is a safe place for Google driven search, maps, mail and sundry services the chocolate factory will shift resources to fighting Microsoft on another front. Google have no financial interest in making Android compete with iOS at the high-end, and at current rates none of the Android handset makers will have the financial strength to do it.
Not unless the iPhone comes out with a keyboard version. I love my iphone, but for everyday business communicator use, my 9650 is superior. Oh, and our corporate email has to be on BB, not iPhones, at least at present.
explain superior..I can type faster on my iphone than my old BB Bold..
Short the stock/or Put options guys lots of money to be made
Already did, and have been saying that RIM is finished by the end of the year or earliest Q1-2012 since the beginning of the year. They're right on track
As a Canadian, I am sad to see that there has to be layoffs in our country. On another note, RIM has for too long forgotten that other phones can now email. That was the only thing that made the Blackberry so big in the past, was email and web browsing. Today with Droid and IOS, there is really no reason to have a BB. I know that some people will say that its more compatible with large organizations and more secure, but IOS is catching up and advancing by leaps and bounds every single year, while BB trys to hold on to its special "messaging" and its emailing abilities. They need to rethink everything.
Not a good day for the (B)s --- Balsillie -- Balmer -- Black-Berry
Balsillie's infatuation with Hockey & Balmer's reaction at the time when iPhone came out, ridiculing it,not seeing its potential has and will cost them dearly. Both are in danger of loosing there jobs. As a Canadian who has no time for either our violent disgrace called the NHL and no time for anything to do with Microsoft.
My reaction Ah well !!
But that does not make it any easier for those who are loosing jobs due to their lack of vision.
This news is just sad. It's like watching the Titanic sink in slow motion. A few hundred thousand playbooks? That's definitely not sell through. I wonder where they've dumped the excess inventory.
If anything, all the waste of plastic angers me... And of course the layoffs.
Bad tech news for Canadians. Bad hockey news for Canadians. What's next? A maple syrup famine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton
Judging by the Playbook, that's not bloody likely.
I'm not going to say "I called it" but it smelled fishy right from the start. I wanted it to succeed but it fared/failed even worse than I expected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
That's less profit than last years quarter.
But the difference between Apple and RIM now is that RIM has no one who can do what Jobs has done. Both of these guys at RIM are responsible for the mess it's in, and neither seems to understand that from the answers to the questions about that given in the call today. They both stated, a number of times, how vital they both were to the business, and neither accepted that it was their decisions that put RIM in the boat it's in now.
They're not finished yet, but everything they're doing has to work out just perfectly, or they will be. All of their top line phones that have come out in the past three years have either bombed, or have had, at best, disappointing sales.
To use a fairly universal sports analogy, RIM basically has to score a lot of goals in the last 15 minutes of the game. But the players are all dead tired, suffering from cramp and the two co-coaches have been drooling over their playbooks with a glazed look in their eyes.
Comments
Not unless the iPhone comes out with a keyboard version. I love my iphone, but for everyday business communicator use, my 9650 is superior. Oh, and our corporate email has to be on BB, not iPhones, at least at present.
Don't go by the keyboard. I'm not saying that no one wants one anymore, but fewer phones are made with one, and there's a reason for that. The problem for RIM has been that their version was a bomb, in that it was terrible. The Storm was revised three times, and still didn't sell.
More people are used to touch keyboards. I know of a number of people who have moved from the BB to iPhones and Android phones, and after some period of nervousness, are now pretty happy with the switch.
I wouldn't be surprised if ten years from now some little kid will look up from her touch screen and say; "Daddy, tell me about those funny buttons you used to use."
Moto & S-E are both earning razor thin profits, RIM is probably still 2nd or 3rd highest profits out of the handset makers. Which position would you prefer to be in, a commodity shifter of boxes running somebody elses OS on which you earn effectively nothing, or the sole maker of handsets on a successful, albeit stagnant proprietary OS which earns substantial profits?
To put this into perspective, RIM made $695mil net income for the quarter. Our last figures for Moto were 2010Q4 when they made 110mil, and our last for Sony-Ericcson were 2011Q1 - of 11mil. Short of a miracle, RIM made more in the first quarter than Moto & S-E combined will make in the entire year.
So if RIM is in the toilet, Moto & S-E have already been flushed.
Well, Moto is now a smaller company. That's very true. But they've been doing better, and RIM is doing worse. So which way would you prefer to be going, up or down?
S-E is different. They're not doing great, but as I mentioned they've got two big and strong companies behind them. RIM is on their own.
Right now, RIM has to execute perfectly. Any problem, and they're in more trouble. Forget about Moto and S-E for now.
But I'll tell you something. It's in Apples' best interest for both Nokia and RIm to be doing well. That goes for the others as well. It's the old divide and conquer. If these companies go down, then it's pretty much Android and iOS phones. In that case, I can see Android getting 75% of the market. Apple would have to work very hard to change that. And with Android having that much share, much development would shift to them, even though their owners are cheap, And don't buy much of anything.
But with more companies in play, it will be harder for Android to get above 50%. and that would be better for Apple, even if their share is 20%. I don't believe that WP7 will ever get to 20% as both IDc and Gartner say.
All just IMO.
you think they can go much lower?...I started buying Puts on April 13...made 5 figures could have been 6 if I kept the position open up to today. I may dip back in tomorrow for a quick scalp.
It's a danger right now. There's no way to be sure which way the stock will blow over the short term. Over the longer term, I think it will have problems.
Gee, why not go for a nice, round figure like 2 million, RIM?
Well, Moto is now a smaller company. That's very true. But they've been doing better, and RIM is doing worse. So which way would you prefer to be going, up or down?
There was an article on Asymco a while ago that basically said that there had never been a case of a handset maker recovering once they'd lost profitibility - if they're right then RIM is in a far better position. In the case of Moto their profits aren't rising because of increased market-share, but thanks to aggressive cost cutting and their market switching from dumbphones to smartphones. The phrase 'dead-cat bounce' springs to mind.
S-E is different. They're not doing great, but as I mentioned they've got two big and strong companies behind them. RIM is on their own.
Yes but eventually mummy & daddy will take a deep breath and turn off the life-support machine. S-E is particularly bad for Sony because it damages their brand by association with failure. At some point they will either sell it or merge it into yet another handset maker - Nokia perhaps, since misery loves company.
Right now, RIM has to execute perfectly. Any problem, and they're in more trouble. Forget about Moto and S-E for now.
I certainly wouldn't argue with that, but I think they can continue to serve their core market of enterprise users with a promise of security and attention to enterprise needs. Apple doesn't really play to enterprise, it's a consumer oriented firm deep in its bones - and android is terrifying to enterprise users. RIMs biggest threat in its core market is probably from WP7 - since Microsoft does understand enterprise users, even if the relationship between them is an abusive one - enterprise customers feel safe with Microsoft even as it slaps them around, shouts at them and tells them it's all their fault.
As for Android, I don't expect it to ever totally dominate the mobile market, because Google just don't need it to. Once MS are beaten back and the mobile market is a safe place for Google driven search, maps, mail and sundry services the chocolate factory will shift resources to fighting Microsoft on another front. Google have no financial interest in making Android compete with iOS at the high-end, and at current rates none of the Android handset makers will have the financial strength to do it.
Bad tech news for Canadians. Bad hockey news for Canadians. What's next? A maple syrup famine?
America declares war on Canada for their oil sands.
Well, maybe that's not such a good idea.
They need to release a new phone called the "Job". The RIM J...
Well, maybe that's not such a good idea.
Presumably the screensaver would show a chef tossing salad?
America declares war on Canada for their oil sands.
Come to think of it, they have been harboring al Qaeda and WMDs.
Not unless the iPhone comes out with a keyboard version. I love my iphone, but for everyday business communicator use, my 9650 is superior. Oh, and our corporate email has to be on BB, not iPhones, at least at present.
explain superior..I can type faster on my iphone than my old BB Bold..
Actually, it would have helped my initial impressions of the Playbook if the browser didn't consistently crash on me when trying it out.
Come to think of it, they have been harboring al Qaeda and WMDs.
Yes, and their overwhelmingly polite denials are PROOF of their deception.
Short the stock/or Put options guys lots of money to be made
Already did, and have been saying that RIM is finished by the end of the year or earliest Q1-2012 since the beginning of the year. They're right on track
As a Canadian, I am sad to see that there has to be layoffs in our country. On another note, RIM has for too long forgotten that other phones can now email. That was the only thing that made the Blackberry so big in the past, was email and web browsing. Today with Droid and IOS, there is really no reason to have a BB. I know that some people will say that its more compatible with large organizations and more secure, but IOS is catching up and advancing by leaps and bounds every single year, while BB trys to hold on to its special "messaging" and its emailing abilities. They need to rethink everything.
Not a good day for the (B)s --- Balsillie -- Balmer -- Black-Berry
Balsillie's infatuation with Hockey & Balmer's reaction at the time when iPhone came out, ridiculing it,not seeing its potential has and will cost them dearly. Both are in danger of loosing there jobs. As a Canadian who has no time for either our violent disgrace called the NHL and no time for anything to do with Microsoft.
My reaction Ah well !!
But that does not make it any easier for those who are loosing jobs due to their lack of vision.
If anything, all the waste of plastic angers me... And of course the layoffs.
Bad tech news for Canadians. Bad hockey news for Canadians. What's next? A maple syrup famine?
Judging by the Playbook, that's not bloody likely.
I'm not going to say "I called it" but it smelled fishy right from the start. I wanted it to succeed but it fared/failed even worse than I expected.
That's less profit than last years quarter.
But the difference between Apple and RIM now is that RIM has no one who can do what Jobs has done. Both of these guys at RIM are responsible for the mess it's in, and neither seems to understand that from the answers to the questions about that given in the call today. They both stated, a number of times, how vital they both were to the business, and neither accepted that it was their decisions that put RIM in the boat it's in now.
They're not finished yet, but everything they're doing has to work out just perfectly, or they will be. All of their top line phones that have come out in the past three years have either bombed, or have had, at best, disappointing sales.
To use a fairly universal sports analogy, RIM basically has to score a lot of goals in the last 15 minutes of the game. But the players are all dead tired, suffering from cramp and the two co-coaches have been drooling over their playbooks with a glazed look in their eyes.