If that were true, why would an experienced retailer like Amazon introduce an entirely new store just for Android Apps? They seem to think that a substantial amount of revenue is spent on Android Apps.
Do you know more about making money online than Amazon.com?
Why would Amazon spend money to build a web-store to serve a market that barely exists yet? Could it be because it might come to matter one day in the future? Besides it's not like it's costing them much - they already have all the store software setup, and a download system - it probably cost them barely a million.
But the guy is absolutely right, Android apps are mostly not selling - people are tending to go with the free ones - which suits Google just fine as they make money off the ads that those free apps serve.
Quote:
"At this rate" it will bounce between 20% and 30%, just like it has since 1998. That is the current "Rate". There are no strong trend lines that I see which argue against that.
Tell you what - I'll put a pin in this comment of yours and we'll come back 6 months after the next iPhone generation launches and see who turned out to be right. If US iPhone smartphone share is below 30% you win, if it is above 30% I win. For every point the loser loses by he has to post a 'mea culpa' message on an active forum thread
Tell you what - I'll put a pin in this comment of yours and we'll come back 6 months after the next iPhone generation launches and see who turned out to be right. If US iPhone smartphone share is below 30% you win, if it is above 30% I win. For every point the loser loses by he has to post a 'mea culpa' message on an active forum thread [/QUOTE]
If that were true, why would an experienced retailer like Amazon introduce an entirely new store just for Android Apps? They seem to think that a substantial amount of revenue is spent on Android Apps.
Do you know more about making money online than Amazon.com?
I'm simply pointing out what I know about my friends running android. I've seen numbers (somewhere) that imply that Android users don't spend as much money on apps. If that's true, then by inference, the 'lock-in' effect is decreased.
If you have numbers that refute my assumption, that would help. Amazon's moves to open an application store for Android doesn't mean there IS a market, only that Amazon thinks there is or will be. It ALSO doesn't assume that Amazon thinks it's as big a market as the iOS App Store, merely that it might be significant enough to be worth the investment. We still don't know if that's correct yet, unless Amazon has posted some smashing numbers that I haven't seen. Have they?
I'm simply pointing out what I know about my friends running android. I've seen numbers (somewhere) that imply that Android users don't spend as much money on apps. If that's true, then by inference, the 'lock-in' effect is decreased.
If you have numbers that refute my assumption, that would help. Amazon's moves to open an application store for Android doesn't mean there IS a market, only that Amazon thinks there is or will be. It ALSO doesn't assume that Amazon thinks it's as big a market as the iOS App Store, merely that it might be significant enough to be worth the investment. We still don't know if that's correct yet, unless Amazon has posted some smashing numbers that I haven't seen. Have they?
If that were true, why would an experienced retailer like Amazon introduce an entirely new store just for Android Apps?
They don't have a choice if they want a piece of the mobile application pie?
Quote:
They seem to think that a substantial amount of revenue is spent on Android Apps.
What they think is irrelevant - it's their only move if they care to have any revenue in mobile apps.
Quote:
Do you know more about making money online than Amazon.com?
No, but Apple sure does - and that's all that matters. I'm not competing with Amazon, Apple and a bunch of other people are. So far, when it comes to making profit, Apple is making the rest of the industry look like amateur hour.
That's what makes the dismissive comments about this "upstart" Apple at the original iPhone launch even more hilarious in hindsight.
I suspect that the "clever things" Tim Cook alluded to during the last earnings call was the use of iCloud to eliminate the need for physical synching of the iPhone with a host PC. Because a large portion of phone purchasers in Asian markets have no PC, the ability to manage music and other content and get OS updates over-the-air gives Apple a huge competitive boost. In other words, the way to make an iPhone more affordable in China or India isn't do dumb down and cheapen the phone. Rather you make it more affordable by eliminating the need to buy a PC!
Over-the-air activation will not be that much of a big deal in India for a few reasons:
Firstly, we pay unlocked iPhone prices (+ approximately 30% extra), so anyone who can afford an iPhone will definately have a computer.
Secondly, iTMS is not available in India. That means that there is no way I can get any music onto the iPhone without a computer.
iCloud may be OK for synching contacts and apps (it already does apps and iBooks), but music, which I think is the most interesting feature of iCloud, is redundant in India right now.
And you're moving the goalposts. I'm not sure where the "Amazon thinks it's as big a market as the iOS App Store" stuff even comes from.
But yes, Amazon thinks there is or will be a profit in selling Android apps. You disagree based upon
Based on the stats. Apple has paid out close to $3B.
There are only 2 paid apps in the Android store with sales more than 50,000. There are only 72000 paid apps. Last year the android share of paid apps was 4% - less than Nokia.
Apple DOES NOT NEED A CHEAPER IPHONE IN CHINA. Any analyst that says Apple should make an iPhone Lite wants Apple to play the race-to-the-bottom game.
The Apple Online Store for China for months was showing the iPhone 4 as not available at all. Now it's showing 24 hours finally. But still no WHITE iPHONE4.
The key to China is prepaid or whatever but also tackling China Mobile, the biggest carrier.
China Unicom has only 15 million 3G subscribers, with China Mobile having 23 million 3G subscribers:
The article claims "The number of 3G subscribers in China has passed the 50 million mark". An iPhone 4/5/6 going multi-carrier in China has massive potential. No need for iPhone "Lite". Sure, there may be a customised iPhone, but I don't think Apple should sacrifice ANY profit margins to tap into the China market.
Plus, Apple must remain a LUXURY item in China. An iPhone Lite would erode the brand for no reason. You could dump 10 million iPhone4s in China right now and they would all be snapped up, scalpers notwithstanding... IF those iPhone 4s could work across all Chinese networks.
And remember, the figures talk about existing "3G subscribers", not those on 2G, prepaid, etc. which is a much larger number.
You are exactly right, I was going to write a post along the same lines.
Apple doesn't need to make a cheaper iPhone for China right now, they just need to ensure that they have adequate supply.
These so-called analysts really need to educate themselves about the spending habits of Chinese middle-class consumers.
You cant go on pre-paid , in China or anywhere else, unless the entry level phone is cheap. Apple ( or Cook at least) have already said they are going to do this, and they have warned about falling margins.
Wrong, the majority of mobile customers in China are pre-paid, and many of them have no problems spending a month or two's worth of their salary on a high-end mobile phone.
And this is not a recent phenomenon, it was like this when I arrived 5 years ago. Though back then the hot phones were from Samsung and Nokia.
Quote:
IPod nano's dont erode the brand, nor did the Mac Mini. This wont either. It does need another name, and clearly cant have the top of the line features - no retina display. If people get higher status from an iPhone 4S and iPhone 4 then that market will still grow, as the cheaper market grows.
Apple is still having problems fulfilling orders for the iP4, so there's no sense in releasing a cheaper version now. And like has already been mentioned, this move could backfire (taint the brand). Chinese consumers want to showoff to each other that they have the latest and greatest, the last thing they want is for their prized Apple to be associated with cheapness.
How do they feel being left out of the newer firmwares until iOS5? While the top line Androids have Gingerbread and some even have LTE. The weird thing is Verizon is the one carrier that gets Android updates out on time. And their Androids are no slouches either.
This isn't scientific, admittedly, but my two of my coworker just said that OF COURSE they don't buy android apps because the whole point of Android is that apps make money on Android with ads.
My other coworker has an Android phone, as does her husband. He was just 'abandoned' by the Verizon store after a Gingerbread upgrade made his phone stop working. The Verizon people told him the firmware upgrade was pushed out by Motorola and hence they wouldn't support it. They advised him to buy a new phone.
Her husband finally got it working by trying something on an Internet forum. She says the experience was so bad that their next phones will be iPhones. They both just got iPads and are thrilled with them. This is not the first time I've heard something like this. The married coworker said that her husband has said that his next computer will be an iMac.
"At this rate" it will bounce between 20% and 30%, just like it has since 1998. That is the current "Rate". There are no strong trend lines that I see which argue against that.
I don't know if even THE Steve thought about the iPhone in 1998 already.
Possibly he did but there was no iPhone until 2007.
Wrong, the majority of mobile customers in China are pre-paid, and many of them have no problems spending a month or two's worth of their salary on a high-end mobile phone.
And this is not a recent phenomenon, it was like this when I arrived 5 years ago. Though back then the hot phones were from Samsung and Nokia.
I know the majority are pre-paid. I also know that the market in China is owned by cheaper Nokia devices. Thats what Apple has to compete with
Quote:
Apple is still having problems fulfilling orders for the iP4, so there's no sense in releasing a cheaper version now. And like has already been mentioned, this move could backfire (taint the brand). Chinese consumers want to showoff to each other that they have the latest and greatest, the last thing they want is for their prized Apple to be associated with cheapness.
The "tainting of the brand" is what I was arguing against. The iPod is still a brand though the cheapest model comes in at $200. Apple has a rep for being expensive but the iPad is - at entry level - amongst the cheapest tablets out there. The brand isn't compromised because there are more expensive models.
As for not meeting their iP4 supplies. I think the cheapest model will be a re-branded version of the 3GS with no manufacturing problems.
Here's a link about Rovio making more from the free version on android than the paid. If this holds true for other apps then it bodes well for developers and well for Google but ill for Amazon
But yes, Amazon thinks there is or will be a profit in selling Android apps. You disagree based upon
Or they may just think there might be. Amazon don't have to have any firm belief that the Android market will one-day be a huge money spinner, only to not be willing to run the risk that it one day might be and find themselves shut out of it.
According to NPD, the supposed dip in Android market share was a blip, with Android chosen by 52% of US smartphone purchasers in the 2nd quarter. Apple did quite well too, maintaining an impressive 29% of new sales considering no new iPhone is yet released.
Comments
If that were true, why would an experienced retailer like Amazon introduce an entirely new store just for Android Apps? They seem to think that a substantial amount of revenue is spent on Android Apps.
Do you know more about making money online than Amazon.com?
Why would Amazon spend money to build a web-store to serve a market that barely exists yet? Could it be because it might come to matter one day in the future? Besides it's not like it's costing them much - they already have all the store software setup, and a download system - it probably cost them barely a million.
But the guy is absolutely right, Android apps are mostly not selling - people are tending to go with the free ones - which suits Google just fine as they make money off the ads that those free apps serve.
"At this rate" it will bounce between 20% and 30%, just like it has since 1998. That is the current "Rate". There are no strong trend lines that I see which argue against that.
Tell you what - I'll put a pin in this comment of yours and we'll come back 6 months after the next iPhone generation launches and see who turned out to be right. If US iPhone smartphone share is below 30% you win, if it is above 30% I win. For every point the loser loses by he has to post a 'mea culpa' message on an active forum thread
Tell you what - I'll put a pin in this comment of yours and we'll come back 6 months after the next iPhone generation launches and see who turned out to be right. If US iPhone smartphone share is below 30% you win, if it is above 30% I win. For every point the loser loses by he has to post a 'mea culpa' message on an active forum thread
Done.
If that were true, why would an experienced retailer like Amazon introduce an entirely new store just for Android Apps? They seem to think that a substantial amount of revenue is spent on Android Apps.
Do you know more about making money online than Amazon.com?
I'm simply pointing out what I know about my friends running android. I've seen numbers (somewhere) that imply that Android users don't spend as much money on apps. If that's true, then by inference, the 'lock-in' effect is decreased.
If you have numbers that refute my assumption, that would help. Amazon's moves to open an application store for Android doesn't mean there IS a market, only that Amazon thinks there is or will be. It ALSO doesn't assume that Amazon thinks it's as big a market as the iOS App Store, merely that it might be significant enough to be worth the investment. We still don't know if that's correct yet, unless Amazon has posted some smashing numbers that I haven't seen. Have they?
I'm simply pointing out what I know about my friends running android. I've seen numbers (somewhere) that imply that Android users don't spend as much money on apps. If that's true, then by inference, the 'lock-in' effect is decreased.
If you have numbers that refute my assumption, that would help. Amazon's moves to open an application store for Android doesn't mean there IS a market, only that Amazon thinks there is or will be. It ALSO doesn't assume that Amazon thinks it's as big a market as the iOS App Store, merely that it might be significant enough to be worth the investment. We still don't know if that's correct yet, unless Amazon has posted some smashing numbers that I haven't seen. Have they?
Mu Android friends are geeks who buy lots and lots and lots of apps. I've seen articles (somewhere) about devs making good money. Here's one: http://eddiekim.posterous.com/an-and...0month-sales-0
And you're moving the goalposts. I'm not sure where the "Amazon thinks it's as big a market as the iOS App Store" stuff even comes from.
But yes, Amazon thinks there is or will be a profit in selling Android apps. You disagree based upon
The best part is the second graph of this article has US and Rest Of The World using the same symbols!
What's the difference?
If that were true, why would an experienced retailer like Amazon introduce an entirely new store just for Android Apps?
They don't have a choice if they want a piece of the mobile application pie?
They seem to think that a substantial amount of revenue is spent on Android Apps.
What they think is irrelevant - it's their only move if they care to have any revenue in mobile apps.
Do you know more about making money online than Amazon.com?
No, but Apple sure does - and that's all that matters. I'm not competing with Amazon, Apple and a bunch of other people are. So far, when it comes to making profit, Apple is making the rest of the industry look like amateur hour.
That's what makes the dismissive comments about this "upstart" Apple at the original iPhone launch even more hilarious in hindsight.
I suspect that the "clever things" Tim Cook alluded to during the last earnings call was the use of iCloud to eliminate the need for physical synching of the iPhone with a host PC. Because a large portion of phone purchasers in Asian markets have no PC, the ability to manage music and other content and get OS updates over-the-air gives Apple a huge competitive boost. In other words, the way to make an iPhone more affordable in China or India isn't do dumb down and cheapen the phone. Rather you make it more affordable by eliminating the need to buy a PC!
Over-the-air activation will not be that much of a big deal in India for a few reasons:
Firstly, we pay unlocked iPhone prices (+ approximately 30% extra), so anyone who can afford an iPhone will definately have a computer.
Secondly, iTMS is not available in India. That means that there is no way I can get any music onto the iPhone without a computer.
iCloud may be OK for synching contacts and apps (it already does apps and iBooks), but music, which I think is the most interesting feature of iCloud, is redundant in India right now.
Mu Android friends are geeks who buy lots and lots and lots of apps. I've seen articles (somewhere) about devs making good money. Here's one: http://eddiekim.posterous.com/an-and...0month-sales-0
And you're moving the goalposts. I'm not sure where the "Amazon thinks it's as big a market as the iOS App Store" stuff even comes from.
But yes, Amazon thinks there is or will be a profit in selling Android apps. You disagree based upon
Based on the stats. Apple has paid out close to $3B.
There are only 2 paid apps in the Android store with sales more than 50,000. There are only 72000 paid apps. Last year the android share of paid apps was 4% - less than Nokia.
http://www.google.co.uk/m/url?client...GiIB-VpTN9Cq6g
Apple DOES NOT NEED A CHEAPER IPHONE IN CHINA. Any analyst that says Apple should make an iPhone Lite wants Apple to play the race-to-the-bottom game.
The Apple Online Store for China for months was showing the iPhone 4 as not available at all. Now it's showing 24 hours finally. But still no WHITE iPHONE4.
The key to China is prepaid or whatever but also tackling China Mobile, the biggest carrier.
China Unicom has only 15 million 3G subscribers, with China Mobile having 23 million 3G subscribers:
http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/ict/newslog...ion+China.aspx
The article claims "The number of 3G subscribers in China has passed the 50 million mark". An iPhone 4/5/6 going multi-carrier in China has massive potential. No need for iPhone "Lite". Sure, there may be a customised iPhone, but I don't think Apple should sacrifice ANY profit margins to tap into the China market.
Plus, Apple must remain a LUXURY item in China. An iPhone Lite would erode the brand for no reason. You could dump 10 million iPhone4s in China right now and they would all be snapped up, scalpers notwithstanding... IF those iPhone 4s could work across all Chinese networks.
And remember, the figures talk about existing "3G subscribers", not those on 2G, prepaid, etc. which is a much larger number.
You are exactly right, I was going to write a post along the same lines.
Apple doesn't need to make a cheaper iPhone for China right now, they just need to ensure that they have adequate supply.
These so-called analysts really need to educate themselves about the spending habits of Chinese middle-class consumers.
You cant go on pre-paid , in China or anywhere else, unless the entry level phone is cheap. Apple ( or Cook at least) have already said they are going to do this, and they have warned about falling margins.
Wrong, the majority of mobile customers in China are pre-paid, and many of them have no problems spending a month or two's worth of their salary on a high-end mobile phone.
And this is not a recent phenomenon, it was like this when I arrived 5 years ago. Though back then the hot phones were from Samsung and Nokia.
IPod nano's dont erode the brand, nor did the Mac Mini. This wont either. It does need another name, and clearly cant have the top of the line features - no retina display. If people get higher status from an iPhone 4S and iPhone 4 then that market will still grow, as the cheaper market grows.
Apple is still having problems fulfilling orders for the iP4, so there's no sense in releasing a cheaper version now. And like has already been mentioned, this move could backfire (taint the brand). Chinese consumers want to showoff to each other that they have the latest and greatest, the last thing they want is for their prized Apple to be associated with cheapness.
Frustration and something better? On Verizon?
How do they feel being left out of the newer firmwares until iOS5? While the top line Androids have Gingerbread and some even have LTE. The weird thing is Verizon is the one carrier that gets Android updates out on time. And their Androids are no slouches either.
This isn't scientific, admittedly, but my two of my coworker just said that OF COURSE they don't buy android apps because the whole point of Android is that apps make money on Android with ads.
My other coworker has an Android phone, as does her husband. He was just 'abandoned' by the Verizon store after a Gingerbread upgrade made his phone stop working. The Verizon people told him the firmware upgrade was pushed out by Motorola and hence they wouldn't support it. They advised him to buy a new phone.
Her husband finally got it working by trying something on an Internet forum. She says the experience was so bad that their next phones will be iPhones. They both just got iPads and are thrilled with them. This is not the first time I've heard something like this. The married coworker said that her husband has said that his next computer will be an iMac.
"At this rate" it will bounce between 20% and 30%, just like it has since 1998. That is the current "Rate". There are no strong trend lines that I see which argue against that.
I don't know if even THE Steve thought about the iPhone in 1998 already.
Possibly he did but there was no iPhone until 2007.
Wrong, the majority of mobile customers in China are pre-paid, and many of them have no problems spending a month or two's worth of their salary on a high-end mobile phone.
And this is not a recent phenomenon, it was like this when I arrived 5 years ago. Though back then the hot phones were from Samsung and Nokia.
I know the majority are pre-paid. I also know that the market in China is owned by cheaper Nokia devices. Thats what Apple has to compete with
Apple is still having problems fulfilling orders for the iP4, so there's no sense in releasing a cheaper version now. And like has already been mentioned, this move could backfire (taint the brand). Chinese consumers want to showoff to each other that they have the latest and greatest, the last thing they want is for their prized Apple to be associated with cheapness.
The "tainting of the brand" is what I was arguing against. The iPod is still a brand though the cheapest model comes in at $200. Apple has a rep for being expensive but the iPad is - at entry level - amongst the cheapest tablets out there. The brand isn't compromised because there are more expensive models.
As for not meeting their iP4 supplies. I think the cheapest model will be a re-branded version of the 3GS with no manufacturing problems.
Mu Android friends are geeks who buy lots and lots and lots of apps. I've seen articles (somewhere) about devs making good money. Here's one: http://eddiekim.posterous.com/an-and...0month-sales-0
Here's a link about Rovio making more from the free version on android than the paid. If this holds true for other apps then it bodes well for developers and well for Google but ill for Amazon
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Angry...s-170596.shtml
But yes, Amazon thinks there is or will be a profit in selling Android apps. You disagree based upon
Or they may just think there might be. Amazon don't have to have any firm belief that the Android market will one-day be a huge money spinner, only to not be willing to run the risk that it one day might be and find themselves shut out of it.
http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_110822a.html