Sure, of course if we compare the iOS ecosystem with the android ecosystem rather than comparing it to just the phones, then iOS is ahead.
Apple hit 200mil iOS device (iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch) in Jun, Google hit 100mil in Mayl
Is iPod Touch a phone??? Is iPad a phone??? Try to stick to SMARTPHONES ecosystems... you know iPhone, iPhone3G, iPhone3gs, iPhone4. When the iPad and iPod can be classified as a phone, you welcome to add them.
It's just something to read when we're bored. These numbers don't mean anything and won't affect ios or android's success. Ultimately, only apple, htc, samsung, etc., knows how many phones they've sold. Any report elsewhere is just for kicks.
As an apple share holder since they were below $100, I'm on the fence whether to sell and claim my winnings or continue to ride it just a bit longer. My gut feelings tell me to wait awhile longer.
A year ago, and with the 3GS no less, you would have been called crazy to have said that a SINGLE Android phone was outselling the iPhone in 31% of AT&T stores. 100% complete loon. And it goes to show you that Android growth is actually accelerating... was outselling the iPhone by 2:1 and now is outselling it by close to 3:1... Android growth is simply amazing...
Really? Someone should tell the HTC and Samsung accountants they have got their numbers all wrong. HTC made a profit of $0.5B in the Q4 of 2010 alone. I'd love to be a fool in that game. Many, many companies are making money off Android, although not as nearly as much as Apple making money off iDevices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent
Will people stop saying Android is not making money? Just because Apple is making the most profits does not mean everyone is losing their shirts. Gawd, get your facts right and I'm not talking about reading each other's comments, or Gruber's "somewhat" biased blog.
Would love to see a link to an original data source (i.e., not some news story, especially in a tech outlet) to Android profits for HTC and Samsung.
Otherwise, it's all speculation. Which is what it's mostly been, except for the iPhone (for which you can easily look up Apple's segment data).
Let me get this out of the way: I believe that something on the order of 80% of all Android sales are not because the user wants an Android, but could not get an iPhone. Those users then upgraded to newer Android models due to lock-in.
Thus, had Apple shipped CDMA on Verizon from the start, I believe they would utterly dominate smartphone sales in the US.
How do I support this bold claim? It's very simple. Simply read the Canadian numbers:
In Canada, every carrier had the iPhone once the 3GS came out. This was before Android had managed to garner any market share, so before there could be any lock-in issues. The first smartphone they could buy was RIM, so they continue to lead, followed closely by Apple, followed at a very very distant third by Android.
I cannot see any reason that the same numbers would not hold in the US had the market developed the same way. My feeling is that 15% of the market simply will not by Apple under any circumstances, and everyone else will if given the chance.
It's interesting that the comparison is longer iOS vs. Android. In other words, the world is conceding that Android has won the OS war.
Now it's device against device. It's great the iPhone is mostly tops. But the fact that it's neck-and-neck against Samsung Charge or HTC Thunderbolt is a sign to rejoice for the latter two, not for Apple.
I think this survey is the harbinger of trouble for the iPhone line. IPhone 5 has to be a major renewal and not just a faster phone with iOS 5 as the killer feature. While software should be what counts, most consumers will not buy based on that because they cannot fully appreciate the software while comparing one phone against another. Furthermore, Android can outpace iOS 5 with their next release. So, the hardware of iP5 must be compelling. Must. http://bit.ly/kNsy4V
I dont think this is the case. Say what you want, but the iPhone 5 actually doesn't have to be all that compelling. On specs alone there are already SEVERAL phones on every carriers that "should" = a better phone than the iphone.
Yet the iPhone, at around a year old, is still the top selling phone. Apple has likely lost the smartphone OS marketshare lead forever (did it ever lead BTW? ) but to think they are in danger at this point is ludicrous.
The Iphone 5 will have a huge surge, and the iP4 will continue to sell extremely well along side it. If Apple also releases a cheap iPhone for prepaid and $0 on contract, they will hit a sector they haven't touched yet as well.
The Iphone is firmly entrenched at this point. The iPhone 5 doesn't need LTE, and doesn't need to be a radical redesign either.
It's already a hit. They will probably sell between 70-80 million of them, while seilling another 20-30 million iphone 4's. Thats the reality.
Let me get this out of the way: I believe that something on the order of 80% of all Android sales are not because the user wants an Android, but could not get an iPhone. Those users then upgraded to newer Android models due to lock-in.
Thus, had Apple shipped CDMA on Verizon from the start, I believe they would utterly dominate smartphone sales in the US.
How do I support this bold claim? It's very simple. Simply read the Canadian numbers:
In Canada, every carrier had the iPhone once the 3GS came out. This was before Android had managed to garner any market share, so before there could be any lock-in issues. The first smartphone they could buy was RIM, so they continue to lead, followed closely by Apple, followed at a very very distant third by Android.
I cannot see any reason that the same numbers would not hold in the US had the market developed the same way. My feeling is that 15% of the market simply will not by Apple under any circumstances, and everyone else will if given the chance.
Apple blew it, no matter how much AT&T gave them.
Actually I don't see any evidence of lock-in, or "stickiness" in Android.
Is iPod Touch a phone??? Is iPad a phone??? Try to stick to SMARTPHONES ecosystems... you know iPhone, iPhone3G, iPhone3gs, iPhone4. When the iPad and iPod can be classified as a phone, you welcome to add them.
iOS is a mobile OS, and so is Android.
They aren't SMARTPHONE OS's.......this is particulaly important because it MATTERS to developers, which contributes to the overall ecosystem.
So even if you don't want it to be included in your little comparison, it does matter, and it does contribute to what the big picture is regarding the state of iOS and Android...and all other mobile OS as well.
Is iPod Touch a phone??? Is iPad a phone??? Try to stick to SMARTPHONES ecosystems... you know iPhone, iPhone3G, iPhone3gs, iPhone4. When the iPad and iPod can be classified as a phone, you welcome to add them.
Apparently, being able to make video and VOIP calls doesn't count as being a phone? iPads and iPods aren't listed as "smartphones", but they can still make calls using Skype and other VOIP services, plus vid calls with Facetime, they just happen to be dependent upon an internet connection, vice a cell tower.
If you like Android, you'll manipulate stats to show how Android-based phones outsell the single iPhone by 2:1 or 3:1.
If you like Apple, you can show that iOS in total outsells Android 2:1.
Both are correct. It's easy to manipulate stats though. The only stat of import lately though is the loss of Anroid marketshare in the U.S. If that continues for a second straight quarter, Android using manufacturers may start to get nervous... if they aren't already from the tons of money they are losing in the tablet arena.
What, the economy in general, and peoples willingness to spend on a new smartphone?
I hope thats what you were referring to, because it was the only thing even remotely relevant in that mess.
I doubt we will see much of an impact, people these days are pretty good at having thier priorities out of whack. Some kid just sold a kidney for an ipad.
I stand by what I said before, the iPhone 5 will be a rousing success.
Really? Someone should tell the HTC and Samsung accountants they have got their numbers all wrong. HTC made a profit of $0.5B in the Q4 of 2010 alone. I'd love to be a fool in that game. Many, many companies are making money off Android, although not as nearly as much as Apple making money off iDevices.
How do you jump from HTC making a measly $500 million to that being profit directly from Android? There are plenty of ways that company can put off debts or cut corners so they can show some modicum of profit to investors by the end of the quarter. Based on their previous efforts, the reason they and others have had to cling to Android, and even Dell saying it's cheaper to pay WP7 licensing than to use the free Android I'm stumped at how you can say that Android is the reason HTC turned a slight profit last quarter.
They aren't SMARTPHONE OS's.......this is particulaly important because it MATTERS to developers, which contributes to the overall ecosystem.
So even if you don't want it to be included in your little comparison, it does matter, and it does contribute to what the big picture is regarding the state of iOS and Android...and all other mobile OS as well.
AT&T does not sell iPods (or even iPad WiFi). Verizon does not sell iPods (or even iPad WiFi). Try to stick to phones when you are comparing what phone companies sell.
AT&T does not sell iPods (or even iPad WiFi). Verizon does not sell iPods (or even iPad WiFi). Try to stick to phones when you are comparing what phone companies sell.
I do, chief.
I am just saying that it is not an entirely irrrelevant point in this thread, considering the point many are trying to make about Android in general based on just smartphone sales.
Will people stop saying Android is not making money? Just because Apple is making the most profits does not mean everyone is losing their shirts. Gawd, get your facts right and I'm not talking about reading each other's comments, or Gruber's "somewhat" biased blog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
How do you jump from HTC making a measly $500 million to that being profit directly from Android? There are plenty of ways that company can put off debts or cut corners so they can show some modicum of profit to investors by the end of the quarter. Based on their previous efforts, the reason they and others have had to cling to Android, and even Dell saying it's cheaper to pay WP7 licensing than to use the free Android I'm stumped at how you can say that Android is the reason HTC turned a slight profit last quarter.
They always seem to quietly slink away when one asks them actual data......
Is iPod Touch a phone??? Is iPad a phone??? Try to stick to SMARTPHONES ecosystems... you know iPhone, iPhone3G, iPhone3gs, iPhone4. When the iPad and iPod can be classified as a phone, you welcome to add them.
When Google excludes Samsung PMPs and various tablets from their 100,000,000 number, than Apple will exclude iPod Touches and iPads from their 200,000,000 number.
Stick to the reported PLATFORM ecosystem. While Android is winning in the sole category of "Market Share of smart phones", Apple is dominating Android in the areas of:
They always seem to quietly slink away when one asks them actual data......
I kind of understood the Windows 'PC' v. Mac wars, but the Android v. iPhone wars make no sense to me. I think Android does a great job at filling the hole that Apple created when they created the iPhone.
From the way I see it, it's the natural order of things. It's like a drought in everglades. Alligators will dig holes down to the water line which will become pools from which other animals drink. Without the alligators these other animals would have fewer numbers. Apple has done this with the iPhone. If not Android some other phone OS would have taken up the back and bottom of the cell market to drink from the hole Apple created.
Will people stop saying Android is not making money? Just because Apple is making the most profits does not mean everyone is losing their shirts. Gawd, get your facts right and I'm not talking about reading each other's comments, or Gruber's "somewhat" biased blog.
It has a lone shinning star in HTC and a bit from Samsung. LG? Losing money. MMI? loosing money? SE? On the edge to losing money. Android is used by the industries biggest losers from a financial standpoint.
Then if you look at developer revenue, it is just as bad. Blackberry developers do better than Android developers. Lots better. Revenue per developer on Android is the lowest, by far, of any mobile platform on the planet.
For Android, as a platform, to survive it must find a way to reliably monetize its strengths for more than just Google. If Google does nothing to address the serious financial (and legal) issues within the Android eco-system, it will go down as the most interesting rise and fall of a platform in tech history.
How do you jump from HTC making a measly $500 million to that being profit directly from Android? There are plenty of ways that company can put off debts or cut corners so they can show some modicum of profit to investors by the end of the quarter. Based on their previous efforts, the reason they and others have had to cling to Android, and even Dell saying it's cheaper to pay WP7 licensing than to use the free Android I'm stumped at how you can say that Android is the reason HTC turned a slight profit last quarter.
I understand you're stumped. But I am not. By doing quarter to quarter, year to year comparisons, you can make some conjectures about trends. Can I be 100% sure that HTC's increasing profits and revenues are due mostly to smartphones? No. But if you study the data and their financial reports, only an idiot and a recalcitrant Apple zealot would say the conclusion is pretty compelling.
If you keep arguing the point, then explain to me how you say say how much of Apple's profits are from iPhone. Maybe they lose money on iPhones and make it up by selling T-shirts. Intelligence is a good tool. Use it if you have it.
Comments
Sure, of course if we compare the iOS ecosystem with the android ecosystem rather than comparing it to just the phones, then iOS is ahead.
Apple hit 200mil iOS device (iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch) in Jun, Google hit 100mil in Mayl
Is iPod Touch a phone??? Is iPad a phone??? Try to stick to SMARTPHONES ecosystems... you know iPhone, iPhone3G, iPhone3gs, iPhone4. When the iPad and iPod can be classified as a phone, you welcome to add them.
It's just something to read when we're bored. These numbers don't mean anything and won't affect ios or android's success. Ultimately, only apple, htc, samsung, etc., knows how many phones they've sold. Any report elsewhere is just for kicks.
As an apple share holder since they were below $100, I'm on the fence whether to sell and claim my winnings or continue to ride it just a bit longer. My gut feelings tell me to wait awhile longer.
Sell half. This isn't an all-or-nothing decision.
Really? Someone should tell the HTC and Samsung accountants they have got their numbers all wrong. HTC made a profit of $0.5B in the Q4 of 2010 alone. I'd love to be a fool in that game. Many, many companies are making money off Android, although not as nearly as much as Apple making money off iDevices.
Will people stop saying Android is not making money? Just because Apple is making the most profits does not mean everyone is losing their shirts. Gawd, get your facts right and I'm not talking about reading each other's comments, or Gruber's "somewhat" biased blog.
Would love to see a link to an original data source (i.e., not some news story, especially in a tech outlet) to Android profits for HTC and Samsung.
Otherwise, it's all speculation. Which is what it's mostly been, except for the iPhone (for which you can easily look up Apple's segment data).
Thus, had Apple shipped CDMA on Verizon from the start, I believe they would utterly dominate smartphone sales in the US.
How do I support this bold claim? It's very simple. Simply read the Canadian numbers:
http://www.mobileattack.com/general/...osite-from-us/
In Canada, every carrier had the iPhone once the 3GS came out. This was before Android had managed to garner any market share, so before there could be any lock-in issues. The first smartphone they could buy was RIM, so they continue to lead, followed closely by Apple, followed at a very very distant third by Android.
I cannot see any reason that the same numbers would not hold in the US had the market developed the same way. My feeling is that 15% of the market simply will not by Apple under any circumstances, and everyone else will if given the chance.
Apple blew it, no matter how much AT&T gave them.
It's interesting that the comparison is longer iOS vs. Android. In other words, the world is conceding that Android has won the OS war.
Now it's device against device. It's great the iPhone is mostly tops. But the fact that it's neck-and-neck against Samsung Charge or HTC Thunderbolt is a sign to rejoice for the latter two, not for Apple.
I think this survey is the harbinger of trouble for the iPhone line. IPhone 5 has to be a major renewal and not just a faster phone with iOS 5 as the killer feature. While software should be what counts, most consumers will not buy based on that because they cannot fully appreciate the software while comparing one phone against another. Furthermore, Android can outpace iOS 5 with their next release. So, the hardware of iP5 must be compelling. Must. http://bit.ly/kNsy4V
I dont think this is the case. Say what you want, but the iPhone 5 actually doesn't have to be all that compelling. On specs alone there are already SEVERAL phones on every carriers that "should" = a better phone than the iphone.
Yet the iPhone, at around a year old, is still the top selling phone. Apple has likely lost the smartphone OS marketshare lead forever (did it ever lead BTW? ) but to think they are in danger at this point is ludicrous.
The Iphone 5 will have a huge surge, and the iP4 will continue to sell extremely well along side it. If Apple also releases a cheap iPhone for prepaid and $0 on contract, they will hit a sector they haven't touched yet as well.
The Iphone is firmly entrenched at this point. The iPhone 5 doesn't need LTE, and doesn't need to be a radical redesign either.
It's already a hit. They will probably sell between 70-80 million of them, while seilling another 20-30 million iphone 4's. Thats the reality.
Let me get this out of the way: I believe that something on the order of 80% of all Android sales are not because the user wants an Android, but could not get an iPhone. Those users then upgraded to newer Android models due to lock-in.
Thus, had Apple shipped CDMA on Verizon from the start, I believe they would utterly dominate smartphone sales in the US.
How do I support this bold claim? It's very simple. Simply read the Canadian numbers:
http://www.mobileattack.com/general/...osite-from-us/
In Canada, every carrier had the iPhone once the 3GS came out. This was before Android had managed to garner any market share, so before there could be any lock-in issues. The first smartphone they could buy was RIM, so they continue to lead, followed closely by Apple, followed at a very very distant third by Android.
I cannot see any reason that the same numbers would not hold in the US had the market developed the same way. My feeling is that 15% of the market simply will not by Apple under any circumstances, and everyone else will if given the chance.
Apple blew it, no matter how much AT&T gave them.
Actually I don't see any evidence of lock-in, or "stickiness" in Android.
The Iphone 5 will have a huge surge
Something else to consider...
http://www.investorplace.com/46718/a...d-google-goog/
Is iPod Touch a phone??? Is iPad a phone??? Try to stick to SMARTPHONES ecosystems... you know iPhone, iPhone3G, iPhone3gs, iPhone4. When the iPad and iPod can be classified as a phone, you welcome to add them.
iOS is a mobile OS, and so is Android.
They aren't SMARTPHONE OS's.......this is particulaly important because it MATTERS to developers, which contributes to the overall ecosystem.
So even if you don't want it to be included in your little comparison, it does matter, and it does contribute to what the big picture is regarding the state of iOS and Android...and all other mobile OS as well.
Is iPod Touch a phone??? Is iPad a phone??? Try to stick to SMARTPHONES ecosystems... you know iPhone, iPhone3G, iPhone3gs, iPhone4. When the iPad and iPod can be classified as a phone, you welcome to add them.
Apparently, being able to make video and VOIP calls doesn't count as being a phone? iPads and iPods aren't listed as "smartphones", but they can still make calls using Skype and other VOIP services, plus vid calls with Facetime, they just happen to be dependent upon an internet connection, vice a cell tower.
If you like Android, you'll manipulate stats to show how Android-based phones outsell the single iPhone by 2:1 or 3:1.
If you like Apple, you can show that iOS in total outsells Android 2:1.
Both are correct. It's easy to manipulate stats though. The only stat of import lately though is the loss of Anroid marketshare in the U.S. If that continues for a second straight quarter, Android using manufacturers may start to get nervous... if they aren't already from the tons of money they are losing in the tablet arena.
Something else to consider...
http://www.investorplace.com/46718/a...d-google-goog/
What, the economy in general, and peoples willingness to spend on a new smartphone?
I hope thats what you were referring to, because it was the only thing even remotely relevant in that mess.
I doubt we will see much of an impact, people these days are pretty good at having thier priorities out of whack. Some kid just sold a kidney for an ipad.
I stand by what I said before, the iPhone 5 will be a rousing success.
Really? Someone should tell the HTC and Samsung accountants they have got their numbers all wrong. HTC made a profit of $0.5B in the Q4 of 2010 alone. I'd love to be a fool in that game. Many, many companies are making money off Android, although not as nearly as much as Apple making money off iDevices.
How do you jump from HTC making a measly $500 million to that being profit directly from Android? There are plenty of ways that company can put off debts or cut corners so they can show some modicum of profit to investors by the end of the quarter. Based on their previous efforts, the reason they and others have had to cling to Android, and even Dell saying it's cheaper to pay WP7 licensing than to use the free Android I'm stumped at how you can say that Android is the reason HTC turned a slight profit last quarter.
iOS is a mobile OS, and so is Android.
They aren't SMARTPHONE OS's.......this is particulaly important because it MATTERS to developers, which contributes to the overall ecosystem.
So even if you don't want it to be included in your little comparison, it does matter, and it does contribute to what the big picture is regarding the state of iOS and Android...and all other mobile OS as well.
AT&T does not sell iPods (or even iPad WiFi). Verizon does not sell iPods (or even iPad WiFi). Try to stick to phones when you are comparing what phone companies sell.
AT&T does not sell iPods (or even iPad WiFi). Verizon does not sell iPods (or even iPad WiFi). Try to stick to phones when you are comparing what phone companies sell.
I do, chief.
I am just saying that it is not an entirely irrrelevant point in this thread, considering the point many are trying to make about Android in general based on just smartphone sales.
Will people stop saying Android is not making money? Just because Apple is making the most profits does not mean everyone is losing their shirts. Gawd, get your facts right and I'm not talking about reading each other's comments, or Gruber's "somewhat" biased blog.
How do you jump from HTC making a measly $500 million to that being profit directly from Android? There are plenty of ways that company can put off debts or cut corners so they can show some modicum of profit to investors by the end of the quarter. Based on their previous efforts, the reason they and others have had to cling to Android, and even Dell saying it's cheaper to pay WP7 licensing than to use the free Android I'm stumped at how you can say that Android is the reason HTC turned a slight profit last quarter.
They always seem to quietly slink away when one asks them actual data......
If you like Apple, you can show that iOS in total outsells Android 2:1.
I've not seen that stat. Can you show it?
Is iPod Touch a phone??? Is iPad a phone??? Try to stick to SMARTPHONES ecosystems... you know iPhone, iPhone3G, iPhone3gs, iPhone4. When the iPad and iPod can be classified as a phone, you welcome to add them.
When Google excludes Samsung PMPs and various tablets from their 100,000,000 number, than Apple will exclude iPod Touches and iPads from their 200,000,000 number.
Stick to the reported PLATFORM ecosystem. While Android is winning in the sole category of "Market Share of smart phones", Apple is dominating Android in the areas of:
1) Market share of PMPs (what 10:1 ? ).
2) Market share of tablets (what 6:1 ? ).
3) Sales share of all handsets (20%).
4) Sales share of smart phones (35%).
5) Profit share of all handsets (55%).
6) Profit share of smart phones (65%).
They always seem to quietly slink away when one asks them actual data......
I kind of understood the Windows 'PC' v. Mac wars, but the Android v. iPhone wars make no sense to me. I think Android does a great job at filling the hole that Apple created when they created the iPhone.
From the way I see it, it's the natural order of things. It's like a drought in everglades. Alligators will dig holes down to the water line which will become pools from which other animals drink. Without the alligators these other animals would have fewer numbers. Apple has done this with the iPhone. If not Android some other phone OS would have taken up the back and bottom of the cell market to drink from the hole Apple created.
Will people stop saying Android is not making money? Just because Apple is making the most profits does not mean everyone is losing their shirts. Gawd, get your facts right and I'm not talking about reading each other's comments, or Gruber's "somewhat" biased blog.
It has a lone shinning star in HTC and a bit from Samsung. LG? Losing money. MMI? loosing money? SE? On the edge to losing money. Android is used by the industries biggest losers from a financial standpoint.
Then if you look at developer revenue, it is just as bad. Blackberry developers do better than Android developers. Lots better. Revenue per developer on Android is the lowest, by far, of any mobile platform on the planet.
For Android, as a platform, to survive it must find a way to reliably monetize its strengths for more than just Google. If Google does nothing to address the serious financial (and legal) issues within the Android eco-system, it will go down as the most interesting rise and fall of a platform in tech history.
How do you jump from HTC making a measly $500 million to that being profit directly from Android? There are plenty of ways that company can put off debts or cut corners so they can show some modicum of profit to investors by the end of the quarter. Based on their previous efforts, the reason they and others have had to cling to Android, and even Dell saying it's cheaper to pay WP7 licensing than to use the free Android I'm stumped at how you can say that Android is the reason HTC turned a slight profit last quarter.
I understand you're stumped. But I am not. By doing quarter to quarter, year to year comparisons, you can make some conjectures about trends. Can I be 100% sure that HTC's increasing profits and revenues are due mostly to smartphones? No. But if you study the data and their financial reports, only an idiot and a recalcitrant Apple zealot would say the conclusion is pretty compelling.
If you keep arguing the point, then explain to me how you say say how much of Apple's profits are from iPhone. Maybe they lose money on iPhones and make it up by selling T-shirts. Intelligence is a good tool. Use it if you have it.