I think it's been well established before that the TV market is commoditized with thin margins. Not the kind of market Apple plays in - but the same could be said for the Windows PC market, but Apple still makes lots of money on Macs.
Another problem I have with an Apple TV is that the TV is frequently just a display device connected to a much larger home theater system - at least at the high-end, which is where Apple likes to play. Receiver, amps, Blu-ray, game systems, lots of different speakers, etc. And all of those have multiple products that people like for different reasons. Yes, an Apple branded TV with aTV built in could be a decent television. But there's no way Apple is going to manufacture their own panels, and all the panel makers sell their own TVs.
The one angle I see this making any sense is the "if you're serious about software you make your own hardware" mantra. Apple could control the entire UI for the TV and content on the TV. Integrated iTunes with a NetFlix like subscription plan could put a serious hurt on NetFlix. Toss in the powerful hardware iOS has coupled with games and you could have a contender.
But I really don't see why they'd bother. An HDMI connector from an aTV is not that hard. And displays last far longer than computer CPUs. But the same argument has been made about the iMac, and look how long it took Apple to release the Mac mini.
- Jasen.
But they do make their own hardware. The AppleTV is hardware.
I just don't understand why everyone doesn't see the possibilities of an Apple Television with iOS and airplay. Imagine, all the games that can be designed for the TV. The iPad will be a controller. Think of all the multiplayer games where each person has an iPad.
But you could do all that with an external $99 AppleTV if Apple wanted to do that. I wouldn't pay extra to have it integrated.
I want real buttons. I don't think having to look at your remote and hold it with one hand while swiping with the other is as convenient as a tactile interface.
Other than volume or a few select keys, do you have all of the near-hundreds of keys on remote memorized? I'd say most have to look.
For basic functions, a touchscreen remote could be quite intuitive:
Volume: Swipe Up or Down
Channel Change: Swipe Left or Right
On-screen Guide/Menu: Double tap (or you could have the guide appear right on the remote's display)
Most other controls could be an accessible menu on the remote display. Why cover screen real estate when you have a screen right on the remote?
More replying to cloudgazer than the actual author of this quote but...
When Apple makes the Apple TV into what it SHOULD be, no one will waste their money on a TV with GoogleTV built in.
Of course they will, the same way that they bought phones that could play MP3s even if they owned iPods - because you couldn't find a nice model that didn't.
I'm quite sure Google are working on getting partners for Chrome on TV.
Please, some one answer me what an Apple-branded TV would do which my current HDTV and AppleTV couldn't do?
Volume control (edit: from the apple remote)
Also rather than switching the TV between AppleTV, DVD, regular TV - the AppleTV would have to have TV channels on it, and connections to DVD players etc.
The iPHone as a remote could also do some brilliant things, perhaps..
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34
Honestly, I buy a TV for it's picture quality and nothing else. If I want to play games or watch TV, I'll use a dedicated device!
While I tend to agree, as TVs start to integrate YouTube and media playback, Apple will have to either make the AppleTV do something MONUMENTALLY better to justify being an extra box, or have a strategy that involves being inside TVs.
Even if Apple decided that they couldn't achieve large margins in the TV market they might still choose to enter it
It's possible they could go for the high end market that Pioneer gave up on. Those pioneers had such great quality. People could lust after the high end products for their quality, and Apple could be recognised and lauded for their interface and their hardware quality - then most people would buy the cheaper AppleTV add-on box to get the content.
Of course they will, the same way that they bought phones that could play MP3s even if they owned iPods - because you couldn't find a nice model that didn't.
I'm quite sure Google are working on getting partners for Chrome on TV.
You know, companies way more powerful than Google have tried to get the whole "web tv" thing going for YEARS.
It has never taken off. The interfaces are too clunky, and... maybe people just don't want to browse the web on their TV?
They won't. They'll put out an A5 Apple TV with software that handles third-party apps (read: CHANNELS), and it won't be available to the A4 Apple TV.
This is what I meant by "update".
Although as the A4 runs iOS, I wouldn't be surprised at it getting some new features, like iCloud and other apps. But I expect the A5 to have more features.
I would imagine iCloud would replace [homeshare]. You will be able to accss your iTunes content from any iOS device.
You'd hope so, but I don't think it will.
Obviously homeshare lets you get content between your devices, using AppleID to identify and connect between those devices. iCloud should supercede that - and even allow devices to think they're getting content from the cloud, when in reality they get pointed to a nearby device that has that content and pull it sideways within your own network.
In fact, you could replace any homeshare options with "iCloud", and when you look at your homeshare/iCloud get an amalgamated list of content available in the cloud and local homeshares. Or even not differentiate the cloud from the actual device, and have that full list of your content automatically shown on the AppleTV, without ever knowing what is on the AppleTV, what is on a nearby computer sharing your AppleID, and what is in the cloud.
But if they'd actually done something so far reaching, surely we'd have heard about it at this point?
You know, companies way more powerful than Google have tried to get the whole "web tv" thing going for YEARS.
It has never taken off. The interfaces are too clunky, and... maybe people just don't want to browse the web on their TV?
GoogleTV hasn't really taken off either.
I never listened to music on my old feature phone, because the interface was clunky compared to my iPod, and the battery life was horrible, and the sound was tinny. But Apple could see that eventually phones would get good enough and the MP3 player market would dwindle - as it has.
But if they'd actually done something so far reaching, surely we'd have heard about it at this point?
They haven't done it. Yet. From what we know of the Cloud so far it doesn't support streaming, perhaps due to licensing constraints. It also doesn't support your video purchases from iTunes, nevermind any kind of matching there. iCloud isn't done yet, it's clearly very much iCloud-1.0.
I'm sure they're negotiating as fast as they can with content providers to be able to extend iCloud to the point that it does what we all want - ie. makes the whole experience of owning/renting content seamless.
Think of an Apple TV with a Thunderbolt port (i.e. data + video).
Apple then design a specification for 3rd parties that outlines control of the TV via the attached Apple TV as well as data exchange between the TV and the Apple TV.
The Apple TV can then start doing a whole bunch of fun stuff like popping up overlays over whatever you are watching or taking over the screen when someone AirPlays to it.
If the TV is able to feed information to the Apple TV, such as the current channel or program, then the Apple TV could pop up related overlays when you wanted.
Apple will make a TV with zero inputs & one optical audio output. and it will be glorious.
bring it home, plug in the power, plug in the audio, turn it on, enter your appleid/password, done.
I for one would never buy a TV that wouldn't let me attach game consoles and a surround system. iOS for games? Let's see....will Skyrim be able to play on it? No? Not interested.
Comments
You need one of these.
I think it's been well established before that the TV market is commoditized with thin margins. Not the kind of market Apple plays in - but the same could be said for the Windows PC market, but Apple still makes lots of money on Macs.
Another problem I have with an Apple TV is that the TV is frequently just a display device connected to a much larger home theater system - at least at the high-end, which is where Apple likes to play. Receiver, amps, Blu-ray, game systems, lots of different speakers, etc. And all of those have multiple products that people like for different reasons. Yes, an Apple branded TV with aTV built in could be a decent television. But there's no way Apple is going to manufacture their own panels, and all the panel makers sell their own TVs.
The one angle I see this making any sense is the "if you're serious about software you make your own hardware" mantra. Apple could control the entire UI for the TV and content on the TV. Integrated iTunes with a NetFlix like subscription plan could put a serious hurt on NetFlix. Toss in the powerful hardware iOS has coupled with games and you could have a contender.
But I really don't see why they'd bother. An HDMI connector from an aTV is not that hard. And displays last far longer than computer CPUs. But the same argument has been made about the iMac, and look how long it took Apple to release the Mac mini.
- Jasen.
But they do make their own hardware. The AppleTV is hardware.
The TV is just a display.
I just don't understand why everyone doesn't see the possibilities of an Apple Television with iOS and airplay. Imagine, all the games that can be designed for the TV. The iPad will be a controller. Think of all the multiplayer games where each person has an iPad.
But you could do all that with an external $99 AppleTV if Apple wanted to do that. I wouldn't pay extra to have it integrated.
I want real buttons. I don't think having to look at your remote and hold it with one hand while swiping with the other is as convenient as a tactile interface.
Other than volume or a few select keys, do you have all of the near-hundreds of keys on remote memorized? I'd say most have to look.
For basic functions, a touchscreen remote could be quite intuitive:
Volume: Swipe Up or Down
Channel Change: Swipe Left or Right
On-screen Guide/Menu: Double tap (or you could have the guide appear right on the remote's display)
Most other controls could be an accessible menu on the remote display. Why cover screen real estate when you have a screen right on the remote?
I think they'll (Apple) get into the TV business with a "whole' Apple TV, not just a set top box.
Running iOS and having iCloud and the interface with your iPhone and iPad seems a natural evolution to me. Imagine the possibilities.....
But Apple could do ALL of that with an update to the $99 AppleTV.
But Apple could do ALL of that with an update to the $99 AppleTV.
They won't. They'll put out an A5 Apple TV with software that handles third-party apps (read: CHANNELS), and it won't be available to the A4 Apple TV.
But Apple could do ALL of that with an update to the $99 AppleTV.
because - and I can't say it better so I'm just gonna quote -
If Apple only has an add-on device, and a consumer buys a new TV with GoogleTV built-in, why should they spend more on aTV add-on?
If Apple only has an add-on device, and a consumer buys a new TV with GoogleTV built-in, why should they spend more on aTV add-on?
More replying to cloudgazer than the actual author of this quote but...
When Apple makes the Apple TV into what it SHOULD be, no one will waste their money on a TV with GoogleTV built in.
I don't want to make sure my computer is on and iTunes is open to be able to access my media.
Oh I wish I could add SMB shares and have it interface like XBMC right out of the FrontRow interface.
More replying to cloudgazer than the actual author of this quote but...
When Apple makes the Apple TV into what it SHOULD be, no one will waste their money on a TV with GoogleTV built in.
Of course they will, the same way that they bought phones that could play MP3s even if they owned iPods - because you couldn't find a nice model that didn't.
I'm quite sure Google are working on getting partners for Chrome on TV.
Please, some one answer me what an Apple-branded TV would do which my current HDTV and AppleTV couldn't do?
Volume control
Also rather than switching the TV between AppleTV, DVD, regular TV - the AppleTV would have to have TV channels on it, and connections to DVD players etc.
The iPHone as a remote could also do some brilliant things, perhaps..
Honestly, I buy a TV for it's picture quality and nothing else. If I want to play games or watch TV, I'll use a dedicated device!
While I tend to agree, as TVs start to integrate YouTube and media playback, Apple will have to either make the AppleTV do something MONUMENTALLY better to justify being an extra box, or have a strategy that involves being inside TVs.
Even if Apple decided that they couldn't achieve large margins in the TV market they might still choose to enter it
It's possible they could go for the high end market that Pioneer gave up on. Those pioneers had such great quality. People could lust after the high end products for their quality, and Apple could be recognised and lauded for their interface and their hardware quality - then most people would buy the cheaper AppleTV add-on box to get the content.
This entire "homeshare" thing is pointless until Apple makes it a background service in OS X and extends the functionality to time capsule shares.
I don't want to make sure my computer is on and iTunes is open to be able to access my media.
Oh I wish I could add SMB shares and have it interface like XBMC right out of the FrontRow interface.
I would imagine iCloud would replace this. You will be able to accss your iTunes content from
any iOS device.
Of course they will, the same way that they bought phones that could play MP3s even if they owned iPods - because you couldn't find a nice model that didn't.
I'm quite sure Google are working on getting partners for Chrome on TV.
You know, companies way more powerful than Google have tried to get the whole "web tv" thing going for YEARS.
It has never taken off. The interfaces are too clunky, and... maybe people just don't want to browse the web on their TV?
GoogleTV hasn't really taken off either.
They won't. They'll put out an A5 Apple TV with software that handles third-party apps (read: CHANNELS), and it won't be available to the A4 Apple TV.
This is what I meant by "update".
Although as the A4 runs iOS, I wouldn't be surprised at it getting some new features, like iCloud and other apps. But I expect the A5 to have more features.
I would imagine iCloud would replace [homeshare]. You will be able to accss your iTunes content from any iOS device.
You'd hope so, but I don't think it will.
Obviously homeshare lets you get content between your devices, using AppleID to identify and connect between those devices. iCloud should supercede that - and even allow devices to think they're getting content from the cloud, when in reality they get pointed to a nearby device that has that content and pull it sideways within your own network.
In fact, you could replace any homeshare options with "iCloud", and when you look at your homeshare/iCloud get an amalgamated list of content available in the cloud and local homeshares. Or even not differentiate the cloud from the actual device, and have that full list of your content automatically shown on the AppleTV, without ever knowing what is on the AppleTV, what is on a nearby computer sharing your AppleID, and what is in the cloud.
But if they'd actually done something so far reaching, surely we'd have heard about it at this point?
You know, companies way more powerful than Google have tried to get the whole "web tv" thing going for YEARS.
It has never taken off. The interfaces are too clunky, and... maybe people just don't want to browse the web on their TV?
GoogleTV hasn't really taken off either.
I never listened to music on my old feature phone, because the interface was clunky compared to my iPod, and the battery life was horrible, and the sound was tinny. But Apple could see that eventually phones would get good enough and the MP3 player market would dwindle - as it has.
You'd hope so, but I don't think it will.
...
But if they'd actually done something so far reaching, surely we'd have heard about it at this point?
They haven't done it. Yet. From what we know of the Cloud so far it doesn't support streaming, perhaps due to licensing constraints. It also doesn't support your video purchases from iTunes, nevermind any kind of matching there. iCloud isn't done yet, it's clearly very much iCloud-1.0.
I'm sure they're negotiating as fast as they can with content providers to be able to extend iCloud to the point that it does what we all want - ie. makes the whole experience of owning/renting content seamless.
I still think the best option is a hybrid.
Think of an Apple TV with a Thunderbolt port (i.e. data + video).
Apple then design a specification for 3rd parties that outlines control of the TV via the attached Apple TV as well as data exchange between the TV and the Apple TV.
The Apple TV can then start doing a whole bunch of fun stuff like popping up overlays over whatever you are watching or taking over the screen when someone AirPlays to it.
If the TV is able to feed information to the Apple TV, such as the current channel or program, then the Apple TV could pop up related overlays when you wanted.
Apple will make a TV with zero inputs & one optical audio output. and it will be glorious.
bring it home, plug in the power, plug in the audio, turn it on, enter your appleid/password, done.
I for one would never buy a TV that wouldn't let me attach game consoles and a surround system. iOS for games? Let's see....will Skyrim be able to play on it? No? Not interested.
I would imagine iCloud would replace this. You will be able to accss your iTunes content from
any iOS device.
How does the iCloud help me with my 300 DVDs, 250 blu-rays, and 50+ seasons of TV and I have spend countless hours turning into MP4?
I can already stream them over the internet to my iOS device from home. I can already access them on my AppleTV via XBMC.
What I want is an out of the box solution for my home network.
Hell, iCloud doesn't even stream content, it just pushes it to each device.