I'm late to this thread, but... here's my disparate thoughts on the matter.
If this statement is true
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph L
The enterprise is a waste of resources.
...and Apple believes this (apparently they do!)... then the RIGHT thing to do is spin off the pro-divisions and let them scrape out an existence themselves. Not kill the true pro software by "dumbing it down". It should be "smartened up" if anything. And that goes for Apple in this case too!
The least Apple could have done was keep FCP7 Studio alive, update it to support 64-bit, and add a little "bug-wipe" here and there. They could still release FCPX as they have, and give the pros a taste of what they "might" have to look forward to in the future.
The "X" in this case should be for "X"press", not version "10".
There is a definite need for 3 levels of software: consumer, prosumer, and PRO.
Apple has more money than they know what to do with. Why not give some "back" to the pros in the form of "good will" gestures, like keeping FCP7 Studio alive... even if it is at a dev-loss for them? Exactly how much would that cost them? The marketing propaganda from the pros, and especially household names from the movie industry alone, is worth millions. Many millions I would expect.
P***ing these guys off with their immediate access to the media, is really "not Apple's finest hour..." because this is gonna be a month-long series! These guys won't let go as easily as we other creatives have done in the past. Adobe buying up the only other pro design software competitor on the planet, and killing half the purchased software as an example.
Sad fact as I see it, and have stated here many times in other threads:
Professional software development has been dead for the last 5 years or longer. Nothing truly new and groundbreaking has come to market similar to what we witnessed at the end of the 90's and early 2000's.
There are only 3 major software companies in the world today making software for creatives: MS, Adobe, and Apple.
Are we better off... or worse off for that fact?
I include MS because writing is also creative discipline. Look what they have done with Word over the years.
Adobe OWNS the print and graphics market. Look at what they have done between CS2 up to CS5.5. Yes. What HAVE they done?
And now Apple adds to the misery with their pro-apps division and this major snafu and slap in the face. Does SJ know that the guys at his previous company Pixar can't use this software? Does he appreciate getting a call from John Lassiter asking, "WTF Stevie?!!!"
Is Randy Ubillos the right guy for the job of cleaning up this mess that he created? No! And I can all but hope that SJ uses all of his penned-up and choice words telling this guy to take a hike. Probably along the lines of: "See that cliff?.... you know what to do... or do I have to tell you that too?!".
PS: Ubillos has caused Apple a major loss of Image & Corp. Branding to the tune of about 2-3 BILLION $$$'s!!! by my estimate.
yeah, but you still insulted back, and calling someone juvenile just because they aren't a professional video editor, or are somehow below your level? please. two wrongs don't make a right..
Amazing how little the newbies respect the knowledge they don't have, or anyone whose perspective suggests an unnervingly high degree of life experience, and how sensitive they are to perceived slights based on age. Doesn't bode well.
Instead of getting secondhand information from columnists, we should be getting information directly and publicly from Apple. Apple should hold a town hall meeting of professional video editors where Randy Ubillos and his team sit on stage, take questions+comments from the professionals and directly address every one of their issues with FCP X. He and his team should also go on record and publicly commit to delivering all those requested features, listing them one by one and providing timelines for delivery of those features. The entire town hall meeting should be available for pubic viewing.
One would hope that Apple is actively involved with the professional editing community. Do Ubillos and his team visit professional tv and movie studios to see the type of work they do so they can understand their needs?
For the next year or however long it takes for FCP X to get all the professional features, Apple should continue to sell and support Final Cut Studio for those businesses which still need to buy the software. FCP X should be priced at less than $100 until it reaches the full functionality of FCP 7.
Actually for once, I agree with you.
The 1 Million $ question is: who WERE those pros that said this PRO version of FCP was simply "awesome"... and dropped their jaws?
Could it be that the jaw-dropping was misinterpreted as praise, when in reality it was at the horror of the beast?
Apology: I should know better than to comment on a thread before reading it in full first, so let me be the first to say sorry if this is NOT Randy Ubillos's "baby", and it is rather a strategic repositioning by Apple's directors... and possibly even SJ himself. @TenoBell - consideration taken.
As an APPL stockholder, VAR of sorts ,and consultant integrating Apple's products from iOS to multi-workstation set-ups (print)... I'm just ever so slightly edgy when I see them make what appears to be "slap-to-the-forehead" mistakes. Even if it is in the short-term, leading up to long-term strategic sustainability. I'm on the front as a PR-grunt trying to explain these things to non-tech clients (mostly). Yes... the question always comes up re: investments made today being (somewhat) future compatible. Apple pulling the rug* in this way on the über-pros and their investments, does not bode well for an "ease-in" Monday morning when a couple of my clients see the headlines here in the tech-blogs, regardless whether they're in the print-industry, or just an iPhone blogger.
*Bottom-Line: you just don't DO those things! Apple-fan or not, you have to side with the comment, "this isn't about an iOS change or iPhone here, these setups cost in the 6 figures"... and that's not calculating training costs, partnerships, workflows, and other assorted costs that bean-counters traditionally dismiss and forget.
Townhall meeting: sounds like a plan to me... and someone please find those FCPX-sneak-peek "pros"!!!! I'd like to hear their side of the story... before they get strung up
Apple and everyone here says that the future of media is internet streaming on iMacs, Macbooks, iPhones and iPads. So there is no need for Apple to invest time and resources to support high resolution video cameras or advanced editing processes. Professional cinematography with studios full of exotic equipment is a dying art. But all these guys just can't accept the fact that the video of the future will be shot and edited on iPhones and iPads. And since not everybody has a gigabit internet connection, these videos will have to be downscaled anyway. So why bother developing professional tools for the Youtube and Facebook generation?
Geez.... you're just as neurotic... uhm... as I am
This is a great idea, but frankly they'd probably need heavy security to make sure Ubillos and company make it out... It'd be the right thing to do, but very un-Apple
Randy Ubillos is one buff guy and he looks a bit crazy so would put up a fight:
but as the saying goes 'never trust a guy who cuts his own hair'.
He buggered up iMovie and had everyone reverting back to the old version and this is now the second time he's done this with the entire professional video editing crowd.
I do think there are some great improvements but he just needs to follow through on the execution and make sure the software is fully-featured enough and is actually usable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc
The 1 Million $ question is: who WERE those pros that said this PRO version of FCP was simply "awesome"... and dropped their jaws?
The 1700 people who attended the Final Cut Supermeet. Although I heard one of them mutter 'Hallelujah' so maybe some of the crowd got their venues mixed up.
There's no denying the video demos were incredible - the colour matching demo was spectacular. Pretty much everything they showed was 'wow, this is really what magic is'. But nobody guessed what they didn't show would be so bad. The media reconnection issue is ridiculous, no import of FCP files is insulting, sporadic undo and autosave just infuriating and no ideas about volume licensing a non-starter - they need to fix this.
I suspect they don't want to come out and just apologise like Antennagate and MobileMe again because too many of those and you build up a reputation but they could even put an FAQ on their FCP page answering some of the important questions.
Apple and everyone here says that the future of media is internet streaming on iMacs, Macbooks, iPhones and iPads. So there is no need for Apple to invest time and resources to support high resolution video cameras or advanced editing processes. Professional cinematography with studios full of exotic equipment is a dying art. But all these guys just can't accept the fact that the video of the future will be shot and edited on iPhones and iPads. And since not everybody has a gigabit internet connection, these videos will have to be downscaled anyway. So why bother developing professional tools for the Youtube and Facebook generation?
I look forward to Iron Man 3 made on an iPad.
WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, DEAR GAWD.
Yes there is an erosion in professional film and video making but it hasn't totally evaporated quite yet.
This is like saying since everyone is looking forward to cheaper and greener vehicles Formula One and MotoGP will be cancelled next year, with Lamborghini shutting up shop too.
Now websites and print design, on the other hand, has gone down the toilet... I feel the pain of any print designer, and I'm trying to plan and invest a lot of resources in retooling from doing web stuff to apps.
...Sad fact as I see it, and have stated here many times in other threads:
Professional software development has been dead for the last 5 years or longer. Nothing truly new and groundbreaking has come to market similar to what we witnessed at the end of the 90's and early 2000's.
There are only 3 major software companies in the world today making software for creatives: MS, Adobe, and Apple.
Are we better off... or worse off for that fact?
I include MS because writing is also creative discipline. Look what they have done with Word over the years.
Adobe OWNS the print and graphics market. Look at what they have done between CS2 up to CS5.5. Yes. What HAVE they done?
And now Apple adds to the misery with their pro-apps division and this major snafu and slap in the face. Does SJ know that the guys at his previous company Pixar can't use this software? Does he appreciate getting a call from John Lassiter asking, "WTF Stevie?!!!"
Is Randy Ubillos the right guy for the job of cleaning up this mess that he created? No! And I can all but hope that SJ uses all of his penned-up and choice words telling this guy to take a hike. Probably along the lines of: "See that cliff?.... you know what to do... or do I have to tell you that too?!".
PS: Ubillos has caused Apple a major loss of Image & Corp. Branding to the tune of about 2-3 BILLION $$$'s!!! by my estimate.
A few points... Firstly I'm surprised Randy's name hasn't come up more, as in people saying "I'm going to f**** kill him!". If he is primarily responsible, don't worry, Steve has got his back. It's obvious Steve is very proud of him from almost every keynote.
Adobe from CS2 to CS4 I can say is not bad. They sped things up, made little nitty gritty improvements here and there to Photoshop, Dreamweaver and Flash (yes). Especially things like transitioning to Intel and tabbed files in Dreamweaver. Premiere Pro is not to be taken lightly, they've done quite some work there. After Effects is standard for any kind of motion, effects and titling work for anyone "one level prior" to using Discreet tools. CS5+ I think will start to hit some walls, and Fireworks has been kinda useless for some time. Dreamweaver will hit the HTML5 wall if it hasn't already. Most people use Dreamweaver because it has built-in FTP, tabbed browsing, hand-coding with code colouring and handles included files in code well.
The future is tools for mobile app development and deployment. Xcode is good but we need intermediaries. No, Adobe's Flash Builder doesn't seem right.
I've used Final Cut since its first iteration and made many national TV shows and now I've used the FCPX I must agree it is a perfectly nice prosumer product with massive potential down the road as it improves with extra features. However, it's not an upgrade to 7 as it stands. I really wish Apple had re written FCP 7 as a 64 bit native app as well even if they changed nothing else and offered both a new 7 (8?) as well as FCPX. As it stands the old 7 it is far better suited to the professional's needs. No production house is going to switch to the current version IMHO, it's just too big of a change in approach as well as currently too limited. No migration path from 7 projects and no support for plug ins just for starters.
I do suspect many will (including me) start using it on the side 'as well' for small projects and await to see what comes along in improvements and get used to it. But for now any serious production work will remain in 7. So my suggestion is ... Just make sure you don't over write 7 with the new version, keep 7 what ever you do!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik
Apple's new releases greatly pleases many "prosumers" like myself.
It also temporarily angers some professional FCP editors while they wait for features.
Compare the number of Prosumers (5 million?) with the number of professional editors (20,000?) and get back to me.
I think we have been giving creedence to FCP editors as if their priorities are Apple's own. Well, I am a prosumer and I matter much more to Apple than the pros do. Great, seeya.
As a share holder I don't disagree with the promise of FCPX as a prosumer product. As stated above, I just feel FCPro 7 deserved a rewrite and continued support and upgrades too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
Out of all the complaints, the most ridiculous and unsupportable is that the new version is "not for professionals."
A few old geezers that are afraid of doing anything new or stopping their addiction to magnetic tape (of all things), are making a lot of sounds that it isn't for "professionals" because it removes their ancient workflows from the equation. The majority of professionals using the old Final Cut will move to the new one with no problems at all. The majority of professionals don't even use tape.
Final Cut Pro X is so totally *not* a "consumer" product in any way. Your just being ridiculous.
Just speaking personally, I have been 100% digital for over five years so I am not worrying about legacy formats (although some have to). I am the first to jump at anything new. The problem here is if you ran a production company with masses of video editing jobs under way and dead lines to meet you simply can't stop and change everything over night. As upgrades to previous FCP versions came out those in the business always tested it carefully before upgrading and these were minor changes in most cases. Once happy with the changes, the projects could be imported and updated and work continued. This is no longer possible.
This is simply far too much of a change to be taken on in the immediate future for professionals. Over time editors and edit houses will have to decide, if they are going to change, do they really want to stay with Apple now, which is sad. I am definitely planning to get to grips with X and hope for upgrades ASAP and using 7 as well. Many others will be looking around now worried their production future may not be looked after by Apple as a perceived move to prosumer will be seen from this version at least.
There are so many comments to this article. I just have one question....
If you own the prior version, and I buy the latest version will the latest wipe out the older?
Thanks
Both 7 and X are called "Final Cut Pro.app" Move your current FCPro 7 to a new folder before buying the new one to be safe. That's what I did. I don't know if I would have been warned as I had already moved 7 but I wasn't about to find out the hard way if it didn't ask! Of course I had cloned my drive first as well as used TM.
p.s. I hope treating you equally didn't pull me down!
I really wish Apple had re written FCP 7 as a 64 bit native app as well even if they changed nothing else and offered both a new 7 (8?) as well as FCPX. As it stands the old 7 it is far better suited to the professional's needs. No production house is going to switch to the current version IMHO, it's just too big of a change in approach as well as currently too limited. No migration path from 7 projects and no support for plug ins just for starters.
If they'd done that though, what would have happened is Final Cut X would have nestled into the Final Cut Express crowd and never been able to take over from FCP.
I like it when they cut the cord sometimes because of the fact that they end up making things so clean. I was over the moon when they did the big switch with OS X because they made the right decisions. I was over the moon when they did this with the switch to Intel because it opened up so much software and higher performance/price ratios.
When they EOL'd Shake, that was annoying but I could see why they did it and the impact was lower because they discontinued the app and went a new route entirely.
This move just feels so much worse because it's one of the few ProApps they have left that people genuinely respect them for, they launched it too soon and are trying to pass it off as a replacement knowing full well its limitations. Whether this was because they said shipping in June without letting the development team know beforehand, I don't know. I still don't know why they decided to launch it before Lion.
But I do think starting over was the right thing to do and I also think using iMovie as a base and not FCP was the right thing to do. They really just made a handful of bad decisions that they can put right again and hopefully the fixes won't be a long time coming.
If they'd done that though, what would have happened is Final Cut X would have nestled into the Final Cut Express crowd and never been able to take over from FCP.
I like it when they cut the cord sometimes because of the fact that they end up making things so clean. I was over the moon when they did the big switch with OS X because they made the right decisions. I was over the moon when they did this with the switch to Intel because it opened up so much software and higher performance/price ratios.
When they EOL'd Shake, that was annoying but I could see why they did it and the impact was lower because they discontinued the app and went a new route entirely.
This move just feels so much worse because it's one of the few ProApps they have left that people genuinely respect them for, they launched it too soon and are trying to pass it off as a replacement knowing full well its limitations. Whether this was because they said shipping in June without letting the development team know beforehand, I don't know. I still don't know why they decided to launch it before Lion.
But I do think starting over was the right thing to do and I also think using iMovie as a base and not FCP was the right thing to do. They really just made a handful of bad decisions that they can put right again and hopefully the fixes won't be a long time coming.
I agree with you on all points. I am enjoying playing with it for sure and in time it will no doubt be great for many uses but Apple need to continue to support 7 and even update it for several years. Entire production companies rely on it and this is like kicking them in the guts. They simply cannot switch to this over night.
There are so many comments to this article. I just have one question....
If you own the prior version, and I buy the latest version will the latest wipe out the older?
Thanks
No, the new version installs separately and the old version continues to work...you're supposed to be safe just installing it and running both. It's almost like the iMovie, er, um I mean Final Cut Xpress coders didn't even know about the old Final Cut Pro details.
No, the new version installs separately and the old version continues to work...you're supposed to be safe just installing it and running both. It's almost like the iMovie, er, um I mean Final Cut Xpress coders didn't even know about the old Final Cut Pro details.
I didn't risk it and moved my FCPro 7 first as both versions when installed are are called 'Final Cut Pro.app'. Out of curiosity when you installed FCPX did it move or rename your FCPro 7 or perhaps place X in a folder?
I agree with you on all points. I am enjoying playing with it for sure and in time it will no doubt be great for many uses but Apple need to continue to support 7 and even update it for several years. Entire production companies rely on it and this is like kicking them in the guts. They simply cannot switch to this over night.
Second this, except for "enjoying playing" part. Can't spring for it just yet, given the known issues.
It would be so easy for them to fix this by keeping FCP available. They don't need to work on it, just keep it available.
And communicate with their customers, especially this group, who are more responsible for whatever prestige Apple used to have than any other group, because they contribute vastly to the whole culture's mythos. Conan's editors are just a taste of the PR wreckage to come.
I hate to say it, but I'm finding that good will doesn't change to indifference, it seems to change to ill will. Because so far what they've done looks like betrayal, and I'm not even on the inside of the industry. I just need video and audo tracks to do what I want and not what they think I want, and the emphasis to be on precision, like doing single-frame trims, not to be on speed and "jaw-dropping." Really dislike that phrase. Sign of the times, I suppose . . .
Okay people--Apple is no longer in the Pro Video Editing business. There isn't enough profit and in this day of You Tube etc., everyone is a film maker. Just move over to Premiere or run Vegas on your Windows partition. No big thing--this is the way the capitalist system works. Apple is now officially a prosumer software developer for video and film.
There are only 3 major software companies in the world today making software for creatives: MS, Adobe, and Apple.
Are we better off... or worse off for that fact?
I include MS because writing is also creative discipline. Look what they have done with Word over the years.
MS did have a line of "prosumer" photo and video software, it seems like that was swept under the rug within three months. I think they still sell it somewhere, but it's not getting the advertising it would get if they're truly serious about promoting it.
It seems like Corel could be a player if they tried. I don't know if they're a permanently damaged brand, if there's no room for a #2 in the market, like ketchup/catsup, it's either Heinz or it's generic in most people's minds. There might be other contributing factors, such as platforms, the market only seems to accept a certain number of platforms and the network effect pushes out the marginal ones pretty quickly.
If they'd done that though, what would have happened is Final Cut X would have nestled into the Final Cut Express crowd and never been able to take over from FCP.
I like it when they cut the cord sometimes because of the fact that they end up making things so clean. I was over the moon when they did the big switch with OS X because they made the right decisions. I was over the moon when they did this with the switch to Intel because it opened up so much software and higher performance/price ratios.
When they EOL'd Shake, that was annoying but I could see why they did it and the impact was lower because they discontinued the app and went a new route entirely.
This move just feels so much worse because it's one of the few ProApps they have left that people genuinely respect them for, they launched it too soon and are trying to pass it off as a replacement knowing full well its limitations. Whether this was because they said shipping in June without letting the development team know beforehand, I don't know. I still don't know why they decided to launch it before Lion.
But I do think starting over was the right thing to do and I also think using iMovie as a base and not FCP was the right thing to do. They really just made a handful of bad decisions that they can put right again and hopefully the fixes won't be a long time coming.
All good points, but I would put more emphasis on how the Shake fiasco (and for others the problems with Compressor. Soundtrack not being useable I always just wrote off as drag one could ignore) began the lack of faith for many that it was worth it to commit to FCP as their main format. Some time after Apple discontinued it they announced, more or less officially IIRC, that its more modern replacement was imminent in the next handful of quarters. Then they annoyed a lot of people by saying you should now use Motion for what you used Shake for, you get the same capabilities with Motion, which wasn't true, though it has some compositing aspects for sure. It was kind of like discontinuing the DAW app (because you bought it instead of created it and had no idea how to update it) and saying users should just use FCP because it handles audio. That was how they explained away Shake. Which left compositors saying "They don't know much about video production".
Sure, they were merely exiting the market of a tool they purchased and didn't know what to do with, and looking after their bottom line, but they made enough statements to show that the ones holding the reins only understood half of the field they had entered and were now servicing less and less.
Remember in 2009 (?) when Jobs claimed the layoffs/exodus of Pro Apps employees were completely support, none from engineering, to keep public confidence up, which was soon widely refuted by the Pro Apps engineers who left? To paraphrase what another poster said, having faith accounts for a lot in what format we commit to. I don't think Apple has recovered the faith of the professional creative communities since then, though obviously that's not their goal.
But like you I hope it works out for the best and everyone thrives.
A few points... Firstly I'm surprised Randy's name hasn't come up more, as in people saying "I'm going to f**** kill him!". If he is primarily responsible, don't worry, Steve has got his back. It's obvious Steve is very proud of him from almost every keynote.
Oh he is definitely in the cross-fire on a number of blog posts out there. He and Apple could have done MUCH better communicating their intent with the re-write, why, what was going to be there and what was going to need more time. I think that is all that the pros are, and were asking for.
Also, that FCS wouldn't be pulled the very day an incomplete rewrite was available.
Quote:
Adobe from CS2 to CS4 I can say is not bad. They sped things up, made little nitty gritty improvements here and there to Photoshop, Dreamweaver and Flash (yes).
Well, it was exactly that to which I was referring; nothing ground-breaking, but little improvements here and there. I'm not against kicking the bugs out and making it more efficient, but calling it a new release, at the prices Adobe asks, are stretching it, dontcha think? What ever happened to .5, .6, etc. updates? I believe the majority of Adobe's progs have not made it past .4 before a new CS is announced, if even that many. Considering the number of "nigglies" they "could" fix and add... not exactly admirable. Let's also take into effect that delivery is made over the internet these days and not on 4-6 discs in the mail... what pray tell is holding them back from releasing updates and fixes more often?
Re: Speed - I think that Moore's Law and the machines we have at our disposal had a lot to do with that as well. I'm not all that sure that Adobe's programs, or any other software for that matter, really makes good use of the power that's available.
When you take into consideration what an ARM processor and GPU can do on an iDevice, then multiply that by about 1000, are our desktop programs really 1000 times faster and more efficient? Could it be the software not hooking in well with underlying frameworks? Are the frameworks even being used correctly, or is there a lowest common denominator factor being used at the development stages and the programs are really only "ports"?
Which brings me full circle to why I believe, and fully back the idea that Apple decided to re-write from the ground up, the new FCP and it's code libraries. No doubt, this is the smart thing to do for the "Next Gen" software that can fully realize the massive power of 64-bit/multi-core processors and hardware. Repeat: Apple just "held it (out) wrong" to their pro user base.
Quote:
The future is tools for mobile app development and deployment. Xcode is good but we need intermediaries. No, Adobe's Flash Builder doesn't seem right.
Well I agree with you there. However, there still is a large base of pro users, creative specialists, and content providers out there that need access to full-blown desktop apps for the time being and probably the next 5 years or so.
I also see a future that marginalizes "pro" creatives, and see the majority of content being produced be individuals and distributed through social networks, syndicates, and agencies of one kind or another. See reality shows and their popularity for instance. Also, nothing more real than the "Dude Perfects" of the world shooting on their cells and creating 1 Million hits on YouTube, integrated with FB, Twitter, etc. etc.? At some point though, they will out-grow their iPhone/FCPX setup. What do they move "up" too? And does Apple make that tool?
*For example: DudePerfect (a classic "consumer/prosumer"), keeps getting "fake" comments on YouTube, so they shoot with 3 or 5 iPhones, and an iPad to boot. FCPX doesn't have an easy way to do multi-cam. How ironic is that? So what DO they use? And what kind of work-arounds are necessary? Will those guys stick around, or will they move to Android and Windows/Vegas?
OK... I'm stretching a situation here, but me thinks the FCP Dev-Team better get crackin' on that update, because in certain situations, it could also not be ready for consumers even.
Re: Lion and iMovie and FCP "Xpress".
I'm rather curious how Lion is going to sync your FCPX folder to iCloud... or not? Can you turn that off? Will your movie folder on the iPhone, iPad, sync with your monster FCPX edit? Would you want it to? What kind of bandwidth are we looking at here as a minimum? Will Apple sell/rent a Terabyte space in the iCloud?
Comments
If this statement is true
The enterprise is a waste of resources.
...and Apple believes this (apparently they do!)... then the RIGHT thing to do is spin off the pro-divisions and let them scrape out an existence themselves. Not kill the true pro software by "dumbing it down". It should be "smartened up" if anything. And that goes for Apple in this case too!
The least Apple could have done was keep FCP7 Studio alive, update it to support 64-bit, and add a little "bug-wipe" here and there. They could still release FCPX as they have, and give the pros a taste of what they "might" have to look forward to in the future.
The "X" in this case should be for "X"press", not version "10".
There is a definite need for 3 levels of software: consumer, prosumer, and PRO.
Apple has more money than they know what to do with. Why not give some "back" to the pros in the form of "good will" gestures, like keeping FCP7 Studio alive... even if it is at a dev-loss for them? Exactly how much would that cost them? The marketing propaganda from the pros, and especially household names from the movie industry alone, is worth millions. Many millions I would expect.
P***ing these guys off with their immediate access to the media, is really "not Apple's finest hour..." because this is gonna be a month-long series! These guys won't let go as easily as we other creatives have done in the past. Adobe buying up the only other pro design software competitor on the planet, and killing half the purchased software as an example.
Sad fact as I see it, and have stated here many times in other threads:
Professional software development has been dead for the last 5 years or longer. Nothing truly new and groundbreaking has come to market similar to what we witnessed at the end of the 90's and early 2000's.
There are only 3 major software companies in the world today making software for creatives: MS, Adobe, and Apple.
Are we better off... or worse off for that fact?
I include MS because writing is also creative discipline. Look what they have done with Word over the years.
Adobe OWNS the print and graphics market. Look at what they have done between CS2 up to CS5.5. Yes. What HAVE they done?
And now Apple adds to the misery with their pro-apps division and this major snafu and slap in the face. Does SJ know that the guys at his previous company Pixar can't use this software? Does he appreciate getting a call from John Lassiter asking, "WTF Stevie?!!!"
Is Randy Ubillos the right guy for the job of cleaning up this mess that he created? No! And I can all but hope that SJ uses all of his penned-up and choice words telling this guy to take a hike. Probably along the lines of: "See that cliff?.... you know what to do... or do I have to tell you that too?!".
PS: Ubillos has caused Apple a major loss of Image & Corp. Branding to the tune of about 2-3 BILLION $$$'s!!! by my estimate.
yeah, but you still insulted back, and calling someone juvenile just because they aren't a professional video editor, or are somehow below your level? please. two wrongs don't make a right..
Amazing how little the newbies respect the knowledge they don't have, or anyone whose perspective suggests an unnervingly high degree of life experience, and how sensitive they are to perceived slights based on age. Doesn't bode well.
Instead of getting secondhand information from columnists, we should be getting information directly and publicly from Apple. Apple should hold a town hall meeting of professional video editors where Randy Ubillos and his team sit on stage, take questions+comments from the professionals and directly address every one of their issues with FCP X. He and his team should also go on record and publicly commit to delivering all those requested features, listing them one by one and providing timelines for delivery of those features. The entire town hall meeting should be available for pubic viewing.
One would hope that Apple is actively involved with the professional editing community. Do Ubillos and his team visit professional tv and movie studios to see the type of work they do so they can understand their needs?
For the next year or however long it takes for FCP X to get all the professional features, Apple should continue to sell and support Final Cut Studio for those businesses which still need to buy the software. FCP X should be priced at less than $100 until it reaches the full functionality of FCP 7.
Actually for once, I agree with you.
The 1 Million $ question is: who WERE those pros that said this PRO version of FCP was simply "awesome"... and dropped their jaws?
Could it be that the jaw-dropping was misinterpreted as praise, when in reality it was at the horror of the beast?
Apology: I should know better than to comment on a thread before reading it in full first, so let me be the first to say sorry if this is NOT Randy Ubillos's "baby", and it is rather a strategic repositioning by Apple's directors... and possibly even SJ himself. @TenoBell - consideration taken.
As an APPL stockholder, VAR of sorts ,and consultant integrating Apple's products from iOS to multi-workstation set-ups (print)... I'm just ever so slightly edgy when I see them make what appears to be "slap-to-the-forehead" mistakes. Even if it is in the short-term, leading up to long-term strategic sustainability. I'm on the front as a PR-grunt trying to explain these things to non-tech clients (mostly). Yes... the question always comes up re: investments made today being (somewhat) future compatible. Apple pulling the rug* in this way on the über-pros and their investments, does not bode well for an "ease-in" Monday morning when a couple of my clients see the headlines here in the tech-blogs, regardless whether they're in the print-industry, or just an iPhone blogger.
*Bottom-Line: you just don't DO those things! Apple-fan or not, you have to side with the comment, "this isn't about an iOS change or iPhone here, these setups cost in the 6 figures"... and that's not calculating training costs, partnerships, workflows, and other assorted costs that bean-counters traditionally dismiss and forget.
Townhall meeting: sounds like a plan to me... and someone please find those FCPX-sneak-peek "pros"!!!! I'd like to hear their side of the story... before they get strung up
Apple and everyone here says that the future of media is internet streaming on iMacs, Macbooks, iPhones and iPads. So there is no need for Apple to invest time and resources to support high resolution video cameras or advanced editing processes. Professional cinematography with studios full of exotic equipment is a dying art. But all these guys just can't accept the fact that the video of the future will be shot and edited on iPhones and iPads. And since not everybody has a gigabit internet connection, these videos will have to be downscaled anyway. So why bother developing professional tools for the Youtube and Facebook generation?
Geez.... you're just as neurotic... uhm... as I am
This is a great idea, but frankly they'd probably need heavy security to make sure Ubillos and company make it out... It'd be the right thing to do, but very un-Apple
Randy Ubillos is one buff guy and he looks a bit crazy so would put up a fight:
but as the saying goes 'never trust a guy who cuts his own hair'.
He buggered up iMovie and had everyone reverting back to the old version and this is now the second time he's done this with the entire professional video editing crowd.
I do think there are some great improvements but he just needs to follow through on the execution and make sure the software is fully-featured enough and is actually usable.
The 1 Million $ question is: who WERE those pros that said this PRO version of FCP was simply "awesome"... and dropped their jaws?
The 1700 people who attended the Final Cut Supermeet. Although I heard one of them mutter 'Hallelujah' so maybe some of the crowd got their venues mixed up.
There's no denying the video demos were incredible - the colour matching demo was spectacular. Pretty much everything they showed was 'wow, this is really what magic is'. But nobody guessed what they didn't show would be so bad. The media reconnection issue is ridiculous, no import of FCP files is insulting, sporadic undo and autosave just infuriating and no ideas about volume licensing a non-starter - they need to fix this.
I suspect they don't want to come out and just apologise like Antennagate and MobileMe again because too many of those and you build up a reputation but they could even put an FAQ on their FCP page answering some of the important questions.
Apple and everyone here says that the future of media is internet streaming on iMacs, Macbooks, iPhones and iPads. So there is no need for Apple to invest time and resources to support high resolution video cameras or advanced editing processes. Professional cinematography with studios full of exotic equipment is a dying art. But all these guys just can't accept the fact that the video of the future will be shot and edited on iPhones and iPads. And since not everybody has a gigabit internet connection, these videos will have to be downscaled anyway. So why bother developing professional tools for the Youtube and Facebook generation?
I look forward to Iron Man 3 made on an iPad.
WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, DEAR GAWD.
Yes there is an erosion in professional film and video making but it hasn't totally evaporated quite yet.
This is like saying since everyone is looking forward to cheaper and greener vehicles Formula One and MotoGP will be cancelled next year, with Lamborghini shutting up shop too.
Now websites and print design, on the other hand, has gone down the toilet... I feel the pain of any print designer, and I'm trying to plan and invest a lot of resources in retooling from doing web stuff to apps.
...Sad fact as I see it, and have stated here many times in other threads:
Professional software development has been dead for the last 5 years or longer. Nothing truly new and groundbreaking has come to market similar to what we witnessed at the end of the 90's and early 2000's.
There are only 3 major software companies in the world today making software for creatives: MS, Adobe, and Apple.
Are we better off... or worse off for that fact?
I include MS because writing is also creative discipline. Look what they have done with Word over the years.
Adobe OWNS the print and graphics market. Look at what they have done between CS2 up to CS5.5. Yes. What HAVE they done?
And now Apple adds to the misery with their pro-apps division and this major snafu and slap in the face. Does SJ know that the guys at his previous company Pixar can't use this software? Does he appreciate getting a call from John Lassiter asking, "WTF Stevie?!!!"
Is Randy Ubillos the right guy for the job of cleaning up this mess that he created? No! And I can all but hope that SJ uses all of his penned-up and choice words telling this guy to take a hike. Probably along the lines of: "See that cliff?.... you know what to do... or do I have to tell you that too?!".
PS: Ubillos has caused Apple a major loss of Image & Corp. Branding to the tune of about 2-3 BILLION $$$'s!!! by my estimate.
A few points... Firstly I'm surprised Randy's name hasn't come up more, as in people saying "I'm going to f**** kill him!". If he is primarily responsible, don't worry, Steve has got his back. It's obvious Steve is very proud of him from almost every keynote.
Adobe from CS2 to CS4 I can say is not bad. They sped things up, made little nitty gritty improvements here and there to Photoshop, Dreamweaver and Flash (yes). Especially things like transitioning to Intel and tabbed files in Dreamweaver. Premiere Pro is not to be taken lightly, they've done quite some work there. After Effects is standard for any kind of motion, effects and titling work for anyone "one level prior" to using Discreet tools. CS5+ I think will start to hit some walls, and Fireworks has been kinda useless for some time. Dreamweaver will hit the HTML5 wall if it hasn't already. Most people use Dreamweaver because it has built-in FTP, tabbed browsing, hand-coding with code colouring and handles included files in code well.
The future is tools for mobile app development and deployment. Xcode is good but we need intermediaries. No, Adobe's Flash Builder doesn't seem right.
I've used Final Cut since its first iteration and made many national TV shows and now I've used the FCPX I must agree it is a perfectly nice prosumer product with massive potential down the road as it improves with extra features. However, it's not an upgrade to 7 as it stands. I really wish Apple had re written FCP 7 as a 64 bit native app as well even if they changed nothing else and offered both a new 7 (8?) as well as FCPX. As it stands the old 7 it is far better suited to the professional's needs. No production house is going to switch to the current version IMHO, it's just too big of a change in approach as well as currently too limited. No migration path from 7 projects and no support for plug ins just for starters.
I do suspect many will (including me) start using it on the side 'as well' for small projects and await to see what comes along in improvements and get used to it. But for now any serious production work will remain in 7. So my suggestion is ... Just make sure you don't over write 7 with the new version, keep 7 what ever you do!
Apple's new releases greatly pleases many "prosumers" like myself.
It also temporarily angers some professional FCP editors while they wait for features.
Compare the number of Prosumers (5 million?) with the number of professional editors (20,000?) and get back to me.
I think we have been giving creedence to FCP editors as if their priorities are Apple's own. Well, I am a prosumer and I matter much more to Apple than the pros do. Great, seeya.
As a share holder I don't disagree with the promise of FCPX as a prosumer product. As stated above, I just feel FCPro 7 deserved a rewrite and continued support and upgrades too.
Out of all the complaints, the most ridiculous and unsupportable is that the new version is "not for professionals."
A few old geezers that are afraid of doing anything new or stopping their addiction to magnetic tape (of all things), are making a lot of sounds that it isn't for "professionals" because it removes their ancient workflows from the equation. The majority of professionals using the old Final Cut will move to the new one with no problems at all. The majority of professionals don't even use tape.
Final Cut Pro X is so totally *not* a "consumer" product in any way. Your just being ridiculous.
Just speaking personally, I have been 100% digital for over five years so I am not worrying about legacy formats (although some have to). I am the first to jump at anything new. The problem here is if you ran a production company with masses of video editing jobs under way and dead lines to meet you simply can't stop and change everything over night. As upgrades to previous FCP versions came out those in the business always tested it carefully before upgrading and these were minor changes in most cases. Once happy with the changes, the projects could be imported and updated and work continued. This is no longer possible.
This is simply far too much of a change to be taken on in the immediate future for professionals. Over time editors and edit houses will have to decide, if they are going to change, do they really want to stay with Apple now, which is sad. I am definitely planning to get to grips with X and hope for upgrades ASAP and using 7 as well. Many others will be looking around now worried their production future may not be looked after by Apple as a perceived move to prosumer will be seen from this version at least.
If you own the prior version, and I buy the latest version will the latest wipe out the older?
Thanks
There are so many comments to this article. I just have one question....
If you own the prior version, and I buy the latest version will the latest wipe out the older?
Thanks
Both 7 and X are called "Final Cut Pro.app" Move your current FCPro 7 to a new folder before buying the new one to be safe. That's what I did. I don't know if I would have been warned as I had already moved 7 but I wasn't about to find out the hard way if it didn't ask! Of course I had cloned my drive first as well as used TM.
p.s. I hope treating you equally didn't pull me down!
I really wish Apple had re written FCP 7 as a 64 bit native app as well even if they changed nothing else and offered both a new 7 (8?) as well as FCPX. As it stands the old 7 it is far better suited to the professional's needs. No production house is going to switch to the current version IMHO, it's just too big of a change in approach as well as currently too limited. No migration path from 7 projects and no support for plug ins just for starters.
If they'd done that though, what would have happened is Final Cut X would have nestled into the Final Cut Express crowd and never been able to take over from FCP.
I like it when they cut the cord sometimes because of the fact that they end up making things so clean. I was over the moon when they did the big switch with OS X because they made the right decisions. I was over the moon when they did this with the switch to Intel because it opened up so much software and higher performance/price ratios.
When they EOL'd Shake, that was annoying but I could see why they did it and the impact was lower because they discontinued the app and went a new route entirely.
This move just feels so much worse because it's one of the few ProApps they have left that people genuinely respect them for, they launched it too soon and are trying to pass it off as a replacement knowing full well its limitations. Whether this was because they said shipping in June without letting the development team know beforehand, I don't know. I still don't know why they decided to launch it before Lion.
But I do think starting over was the right thing to do and I also think using iMovie as a base and not FCP was the right thing to do. They really just made a handful of bad decisions that they can put right again and hopefully the fixes won't be a long time coming.
If they'd done that though, what would have happened is Final Cut X would have nestled into the Final Cut Express crowd and never been able to take over from FCP.
I like it when they cut the cord sometimes because of the fact that they end up making things so clean. I was over the moon when they did the big switch with OS X because they made the right decisions. I was over the moon when they did this with the switch to Intel because it opened up so much software and higher performance/price ratios.
When they EOL'd Shake, that was annoying but I could see why they did it and the impact was lower because they discontinued the app and went a new route entirely.
This move just feels so much worse because it's one of the few ProApps they have left that people genuinely respect them for, they launched it too soon and are trying to pass it off as a replacement knowing full well its limitations. Whether this was because they said shipping in June without letting the development team know beforehand, I don't know. I still don't know why they decided to launch it before Lion.
But I do think starting over was the right thing to do and I also think using iMovie as a base and not FCP was the right thing to do. They really just made a handful of bad decisions that they can put right again and hopefully the fixes won't be a long time coming.
I agree with you on all points. I am enjoying playing with it for sure and in time it will no doubt be great for many uses but Apple need to continue to support 7 and even update it for several years. Entire production companies rely on it and this is like kicking them in the guts. They simply cannot switch to this over night.
There are so many comments to this article. I just have one question....
If you own the prior version, and I buy the latest version will the latest wipe out the older?
Thanks
No, the new version installs separately and the old version continues to work...you're supposed to be safe just installing it and running both. It's almost like the iMovie, er, um I mean Final Cut Xpress coders didn't even know about the old Final Cut Pro details.
No, the new version installs separately and the old version continues to work...you're supposed to be safe just installing it and running both. It's almost like the iMovie, er, um I mean Final Cut Xpress coders didn't even know about the old Final Cut Pro details.
I didn't risk it and moved my FCPro 7 first as both versions when installed are are called 'Final Cut Pro.app'. Out of curiosity when you installed FCPX did it move or rename your FCPro 7 or perhaps place X in a folder?
I agree with you on all points. I am enjoying playing with it for sure and in time it will no doubt be great for many uses but Apple need to continue to support 7 and even update it for several years. Entire production companies rely on it and this is like kicking them in the guts. They simply cannot switch to this over night.
Second this, except for "enjoying playing" part. Can't spring for it just yet, given the known issues.
It would be so easy for them to fix this by keeping FCP available. They don't need to work on it, just keep it available.
And communicate with their customers, especially this group, who are more responsible for whatever prestige Apple used to have than any other group, because they contribute vastly to the whole culture's mythos. Conan's editors are just a taste of the PR wreckage to come.
I hate to say it, but I'm finding that good will doesn't change to indifference, it seems to change to ill will. Because so far what they've done looks like betrayal, and I'm not even on the inside of the industry. I just need video and audo tracks to do what I want and not what they think I want, and the emphasis to be on precision, like doing single-frame trims, not to be on speed and "jaw-dropping." Really dislike that phrase. Sign of the times, I suppose . . .
There are only 3 major software companies in the world today making software for creatives: MS, Adobe, and Apple.
Are we better off... or worse off for that fact?
I include MS because writing is also creative discipline. Look what they have done with Word over the years.
MS did have a line of "prosumer" photo and video software, it seems like that was swept under the rug within three months. I think they still sell it somewhere, but it's not getting the advertising it would get if they're truly serious about promoting it.
It seems like Corel could be a player if they tried. I don't know if they're a permanently damaged brand, if there's no room for a #2 in the market, like ketchup/catsup, it's either Heinz or it's generic in most people's minds. There might be other contributing factors, such as platforms, the market only seems to accept a certain number of platforms and the network effect pushes out the marginal ones pretty quickly.
Apple is now officially a prosumer software developer for video and film.
Link to Apple's website where this is stated, please? Until then, that's your opinion only.
If they'd done that though, what would have happened is Final Cut X would have nestled into the Final Cut Express crowd and never been able to take over from FCP.
I like it when they cut the cord sometimes because of the fact that they end up making things so clean. I was over the moon when they did the big switch with OS X because they made the right decisions. I was over the moon when they did this with the switch to Intel because it opened up so much software and higher performance/price ratios.
When they EOL'd Shake, that was annoying but I could see why they did it and the impact was lower because they discontinued the app and went a new route entirely.
This move just feels so much worse because it's one of the few ProApps they have left that people genuinely respect them for, they launched it too soon and are trying to pass it off as a replacement knowing full well its limitations. Whether this was because they said shipping in June without letting the development team know beforehand, I don't know. I still don't know why they decided to launch it before Lion.
But I do think starting over was the right thing to do and I also think using iMovie as a base and not FCP was the right thing to do. They really just made a handful of bad decisions that they can put right again and hopefully the fixes won't be a long time coming.
All good points, but I would put more emphasis on how the Shake fiasco (and for others the problems with Compressor. Soundtrack not being useable I always just wrote off as drag one could ignore) began the lack of faith for many that it was worth it to commit to FCP as their main format. Some time after Apple discontinued it they announced, more or less officially IIRC, that its more modern replacement was imminent in the next handful of quarters. Then they annoyed a lot of people by saying you should now use Motion for what you used Shake for, you get the same capabilities with Motion, which wasn't true, though it has some compositing aspects for sure. It was kind of like discontinuing the DAW app (because you bought it instead of created it and had no idea how to update it) and saying users should just use FCP because it handles audio. That was how they explained away Shake. Which left compositors saying "They don't know much about video production".
Sure, they were merely exiting the market of a tool they purchased and didn't know what to do with, and looking after their bottom line, but they made enough statements to show that the ones holding the reins only understood half of the field they had entered and were now servicing less and less.
Remember in 2009 (?) when Jobs claimed the layoffs/exodus of Pro Apps employees were completely support, none from engineering, to keep public confidence up, which was soon widely refuted by the Pro Apps engineers who left? To paraphrase what another poster said, having faith accounts for a lot in what format we commit to. I don't think Apple has recovered the faith of the professional creative communities since then, though obviously that's not their goal.
But like you I hope it works out for the best and everyone thrives.
A few points... Firstly I'm surprised Randy's name hasn't come up more, as in people saying "I'm going to f**** kill him!". If he is primarily responsible, don't worry, Steve has got his back. It's obvious Steve is very proud of him from almost every keynote.
Oh he is definitely in the cross-fire on a number of blog posts out there. He and Apple could have done MUCH better communicating their intent with the re-write, why, what was going to be there and what was going to need more time. I think that is all that the pros are, and were asking for.
Also, that FCS wouldn't be pulled the very day an incomplete rewrite was available.
Adobe from CS2 to CS4 I can say is not bad. They sped things up, made little nitty gritty improvements here and there to Photoshop, Dreamweaver and Flash (yes).
Well, it was exactly that to which I was referring; nothing ground-breaking, but little improvements here and there. I'm not against kicking the bugs out and making it more efficient, but calling it a new release, at the prices Adobe asks, are stretching it, dontcha think? What ever happened to .5, .6, etc. updates? I believe the majority of Adobe's progs have not made it past .4 before a new CS is announced, if even that many. Considering the number of "nigglies" they "could" fix and add... not exactly admirable. Let's also take into effect that delivery is made over the internet these days and not on 4-6 discs in the mail... what pray tell is holding them back from releasing updates and fixes more often?
Re: Speed - I think that Moore's Law and the machines we have at our disposal had a lot to do with that as well. I'm not all that sure that Adobe's programs, or any other software for that matter, really makes good use of the power that's available.
When you take into consideration what an ARM processor and GPU can do on an iDevice, then multiply that by about 1000, are our desktop programs really 1000 times faster and more efficient? Could it be the software not hooking in well with underlying frameworks? Are the frameworks even being used correctly, or is there a lowest common denominator factor being used at the development stages and the programs are really only "ports"?
Which brings me full circle to why I believe, and fully back the idea that Apple decided to re-write from the ground up, the new FCP and it's code libraries. No doubt, this is the smart thing to do for the "Next Gen" software that can fully realize the massive power of 64-bit/multi-core processors and hardware. Repeat: Apple just "held it (out) wrong" to their pro user base.
The future is tools for mobile app development and deployment. Xcode is good but we need intermediaries. No, Adobe's Flash Builder doesn't seem right.
Well I agree with you there. However, there still is a large base of pro users, creative specialists, and content providers out there that need access to full-blown desktop apps for the time being and probably the next 5 years or so.
I also see a future that marginalizes "pro" creatives, and see the majority of content being produced be individuals and distributed through social networks, syndicates, and agencies of one kind or another. See reality shows and their popularity for instance. Also, nothing more real than the "Dude Perfects" of the world shooting on their cells and creating 1 Million hits on YouTube, integrated with FB, Twitter, etc. etc.? At some point though, they will out-grow their iPhone/FCPX setup. What do they move "up" too? And does Apple make that tool?
*For example: DudePerfect (a classic "consumer/prosumer"), keeps getting "fake" comments on YouTube, so they shoot with 3 or 5 iPhones, and an iPad to boot. FCPX doesn't have an easy way to do multi-cam. How ironic is that? So what DO they use? And what kind of work-arounds are necessary? Will those guys stick around, or will they move to Android and Windows/Vegas?
OK... I'm stretching a situation here, but me thinks the FCP Dev-Team better get crackin' on that update, because in certain situations, it could also not be ready for consumers even.
Re: Lion and iMovie and FCP "Xpress".
I'm rather curious how Lion is going to sync your FCPX folder to iCloud... or not? Can you turn that off? Will your movie folder on the iPhone, iPad, sync with your monster FCPX edit? Would you want it to? What kind of bandwidth are we looking at here as a minimum? Will Apple sell/rent a Terabyte space in the iCloud?