Whats the old adage. Lies, statistics, and nonsense posted by MacRulez. In postings about the iPhone, we get a link to a fall off in Tablets in CQ1 ( we are now in CQ3) precisely because australians were waiting for the iPad 2.
MacRulez saw the sensationalist headline but because he is unable to read smaller print he missed this from the report:
Australia and New Zealand media tablet shipments are expected to exhibit strong growth this year with double the volume from 2010. IDC expects this to be largely driven from the supply-side with the launch of new devices and additional new entrants in the media tablets competitive landscape.
Bottom line you can go into any store and walk out with a free android phone and you can't with an iPhone. The masses also believe that the Android phones are the same as the iPhone. If you were to ask non-tech people who purchased an Android you would fine that those are there answers and price matters to them.
Keep telling yourself that. The Android brand is gaining traction. More and more people know what it is and are specifically asking for it. It maybe anecdotal but my circle of friends is very much dominated by Blackberries for BBM. However, many of them are planning to move on. But only a quarter of them want iPhones. Several like Android for various reasons (bigger screens, free navigation, etc.) Some are even mentioning Windows Phone 7 (we've seen the carriers do a promo drive for Win Pho 7 recently), specifically because they like the interface (some going so far as to say that they like it because it's different from the iPhone). And these are all folks in their mid-20s who should be the target market for the iPhone. Maybe there's something in the water in Toronto or maybe it's just that people are waking up to the fact that there are choices other than a blackberry or an iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jplyman325
What would be better is how many high end android phones are being activated on a daily basis. Also, when was this data taken? I remember my stats class in Collage - Stats never lie and always lie.....
Bottom line 500,000 a day would equal 182,500,000 phones per year - Yeah right
Entirely believable. Just look at how many Symbian phones Nokia was selling. Look at the growth of the smartphone sector. Android is eating Symbian, Blackberry and Windows Mobile marketshare.
If you use GMail and Google Docs, would it matter whether you are on an iPad or Android tablet?
No, but I'm not sure that Google Docs is really acceptable as a mobile productivity tool for most people. Especially in Europe people will frequently find themselves outside their home market and won't want to rely expensive data roaming to be able to access their spreadsheets.
I'm personally not convinced that web-services beat native apps for mobile devices where I may not always have an internet connection, at least at a reasonable price.
Interesting given that all other recent info has Android growth stalling relative to the rest of the market.
Which is why ALL analyst reports and surveys, and especially spin from corporate executives (including Apple execs) are to be received with healthy skepticism. IMHO it's a no-brainer that Android will have the bigger market share. Unlike the Mac vs PC wars however the situation with developers is very different. To my knowledge there is not a single must-have app that is available only on Android devices because of their market share. And more so than that there are plenty of Android apps that work on or perform better on only certain devices.
And yes, Apple does care about market share, the good market share, the profitable market share, the worthwhile market share. And they've been doing quite well with that market share the past decade.
What makes iPhone great, Apps. If a developer can sell 1000 apps on iTunes or sell 10,000 apps through Android because of market share who do you think he is going to develop for first? Right Android, then if Android is getting all the best apps first what happens? People stop buying iPhones and start buying Android. The big picture and the future is what this is about, not what is going on right now.
The truth of the article in my experience is that Apple has tried to maximise profit by spoon-feeding features to the market for far too long, because they know Apple fanboys will buy each new version even if there is almost no real difference in it except maybe a new front facing camera or an extra few megapixels.
I love Apple laptops, but the iPhone just isn't as good as some of the Android phones now, so unless they can find a way to innovate massively with iPhone 5 they will continue to lose market share and potential profit. I traded in my iPhone 4 for a Samsung Galaxy S2 and frankly it is a far superior phone, all the iPhone apps I used are on Android, it's got a bigger screen, it's faster, more configurable and just easier to work with.
I will continue to use Apple computers, but I honestly can't see any benefit to iPhone any more when Android is so much more advanced and Apple is now playing catch up. I can completely replace my loader screen with cool 3d ones and replace the browser and... I just have so much choice now. 4 days in and I'm hooked. Seriously it is THAT much better, you should really take a look after the iPhone 5 comes out and actually ask yourself which is truly the better device. I'd be surprised if iPhone 5 is as good as Samsung Galaxy S2 when it gets the next version of Android.
Now I know some of you will get really mad and have a fit over what I wrote but let me just ask you to take a few deep breaths and really think for a minute about what it is that got you upset? It's just an opinion based on experience in words on a screen. Nothing to get worked up about.
That said, teenagers do like to be different from each other.
They can be the proverbial canaries in a coal mine. A teenager has far less invested in a platform he/she has been using for a few years compared to a somebody who's older and may have been using a platform right from launch. This makes them fickle consumers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
Android isnt going away, but Apple have plenty of firepower left.
Nobody said Apple is weak. People just get needlessly worked up with these stories. Android and iOS can co-exist quite happily. And indeed they'll have to...especially once Android starts showing up in your fridge, your washing machine, your car, etc.
The comparison was widely mentioned by Apple fans a couple years back. It only became "inane" after Android surpassed Apple's iOS Phone market share much faster than most anticipated.
+1
There used to be a lot of talk about how Android would never outsell the iPhone. It did. Then the goalpost became iOS (which is a much more accurate goal) and now that's happening. So now of course, all this talk of profit share instead of market share. Just keeping moving the goalposts.....
Personally, I find such discussions inane and annoying. Who cares? As long as the device I want does what I want it to (that includes app functionality), I really don't care for such comparisons.
Bragging about profit share is particularly moronic in my books. Unless I own stock in a company, I see any bragging about contributing to said company's profit margins, as a sign that I'm a poor consumer and shopper.
In my country, Romania, the average income is 200-300 Euros monthly. An iPhone is 200 Euro with a 29 Euro for 2 year contract. At the same time, An LG Optimus One with Android 2.1 is 3 Euro with a 16 Euro for 2 year contract. Guess what people buy?
I'm hearing more and more stories like this lately.
Given that Tim Cook has already stated that they are working on lower costs for iPhones and that "we will cede no markets (to competitors)," I'm thinking we are looking at a lower price for the unlocked iPhone *and* an iPhone nano very soon.
It seems like they pretty much have to do both to keep the domination of Android happening and to stave off WebOS.
The truth of the article in my experience is that Apple has tried to maximise profit by spoon-feeding features to the market for far too long, because they know Apple fanboys will buy each new version even if there is almost no real difference in it except maybe a new front facing camera or an extra few megapixels.
I love Apple laptops, but the iPhone just isn't as good as some of the Android phones now, so unless they can find a way to innovate massively with iPhone 5 they will continue to lose market share and potential profit. I traded in my iPhone 4 for a Samsung Galaxy S2 and frankly it is a far superior phone, all the iPhone apps I used are on Android, it's got a bigger screen, it's faster, more configurable and just easier to work with.
I will continue to use Apple computers, but I honestly can't see any benefit to iPhone any more when Android is so much more advanced and Apple is now playing catch up. I can completely replace my loader screen with cool 3d ones and replace the browser and... I just have so much choice now. 4 days in and I'm hooked. Seriously it is THAT much better, you should really take a look after the iPhone 5 comes out and actually ask yourself which is truly the better device. I'd be surprised if iPhone 5 is as good as Samsung Galaxy S2 when it gets the next version of Android.
Now I know some of you will get really mad and have a fit over what I wrote but let me just ask you to take a few deep breaths and really think for a minute about what it is that got you upset? It's just an opinion based on experience in words on a screen. Nothing to get worked up about.
Have a great day, I hope it's a good one for you!
Apple is not going to re-target the top end of the market until it has swooped up the lower and mid range. That is why it is stagnating in market share - as the stats on profit share show - so if it wants to grow it's market it needs to price lower, not higher.
So no LTE until next year. No bigger screen. However the processor will be top of the range, and iOS, which is a real OS not a VM, will get more oomph out of any equivalent processor.
Fragmentation does happen. But there's a lot of people who keep acting like it's going to kill Android right away. It won't.
Oh absolutely it won't kill Android, but it produces an overall bad experience. I would love to see a survey that matches purchasing intent with current ownership - ie. what percentage of iPhone owners intend to buy an Android as their next phone versus vice-versa.
Android's growth is often cited as proof of iPhone's weakness, but the two are mostly uncorrelated, and will remain so for as long as their are so many weak platforms to devour.
There used to be a lot of talk about how Android would never outsell the iPhone. It did. Then the goalpost became iOS (which is a much more accurate goal) and now that's happening. So now of course, all this talk of profit share instead of market share. Just keeping moving the goalposts.....
Not really.
First off, GatorGuy's comments about how the comparison "only became inane when Android market share (was a problem)" is quite false.
Secondly, iOS as a platform is still dominating Android by a long shot (it always has), so your statement above about "now that's happening," (Apple losing that dominance) is also false.
The fact is, that Android smartphone market share is recently stalling, and it's overall presence as a platform pales to iOS (it always has). Also, the release of iOS 5.0 and the debut of unlocked iPhones for the US, will remove almost any reason to jailbreak or switch to Android in that the two OS's will be feature comparable from this point onwards. if Apple also does something about the price of iPhones, then Android really hasn't got a chance of gaining any significant market share over iOS in the future.
Android is doing well in handsets in the USA and a few other countries, but it's a platform war not a smartphone war and iOS has been winning *that* war from day one.
There used to be a lot of talk about how Android would never outsell the iPhone. It did. Then the goalpost became iOS (which is a much more accurate goal) and now that's happening. So now of course, all this talk of profit share instead of market share. Just keeping moving the goalposts.....
Personally, I find such discussions inane and annoying. Who cares? As long as the device I want does what I want it to (that includes app functionality), I really don't care for such comparisons.
Bragging about profit share is particularly moronic in my books. Unless I own stock in a company, I see any bragging about contributing to said company's profit margins, as a sign that I'm a poor consumer and shopper.
I do agree on the market share vs profits issue. In fact it's worth going back to the thread on RIM declining market share a few days ago. Their unit sales increased y-o-y but market share decreased. The rate of decline also slowed. In that thread there was certainty that RIM were dead.
One rule for Apple, one for RIM.
Apple may not win, but it has clear ways to regain market share, Which does matter.
No, but I'm not sure that Google Docs is really acceptable as a mobile productivity tool for most people. Especially in Europe people will frequently find themselves outside their home market and won't want to rely expensive data roaming to be able to access their spreadsheets.
I'm personally not convinced that web-services beat native apps for mobile devices where I may not always have an internet connection, at least at a reasonable price.
The benefit of web based services is that they are device agnostic. Nobody says you have to use them on a tablet running off your mobile data connection. You could just as easily access it from another computer on another desk, your work PC, your Mac at home or your tablet. When you travel, you can use a business centre, a computer at your other office, your laptop running on hotel wifi, an internet cafe, etc. Comparatively if you want to use iWork and iCloud, you need to constantly work, only on an iDevice or a Mac and only using iWork.
Don't get me wrong. I like, and use iWork, and if I get a tablet, one of the big reasons for me going iPad will be iWork...but...while web services don't offer the functionality of native apps, they offer certain key advantages that many might value: universal accessibility and a collaborative environment. For a good chunk of the general public that beats out being able to make pretty pages.
ps. This isn't just Google Docs. There's open office, MS Office online, etc.
Android has already won market share. If not today, then very soon. It would be silly for Apple to compete with that. iPhone will sell less and less and in a few years, its out of the game. Better concentrate on iPads while they can. Eventually Google/Android will win that also and goodbye iPads.
Comments
Whats the old adage. Lies, statistics, and nonsense posted by MacRulez. In postings about the iPhone, we get a link to a fall off in Tablets in CQ1 ( we are now in CQ3) precisely because australians were waiting for the iPad 2.
MacRulez saw the sensationalist headline but because he is unable to read smaller print he missed this from the report:
Australia and New Zealand media tablet shipments are expected to exhibit strong growth this year with double the volume from 2010. IDC expects this to be largely driven from the supply-side with the launch of new devices and additional new entrants in the media tablets competitive landscape.
Nuff said...
Bottom line you can go into any store and walk out with a free android phone and you can't with an iPhone. The masses also believe that the Android phones are the same as the iPhone. If you were to ask non-tech people who purchased an Android you would fine that those are there answers and price matters to them.
Keep telling yourself that. The Android brand is gaining traction. More and more people know what it is and are specifically asking for it. It maybe anecdotal but my circle of friends is very much dominated by Blackberries for BBM. However, many of them are planning to move on. But only a quarter of them want iPhones. Several like Android for various reasons (bigger screens, free navigation, etc.) Some are even mentioning Windows Phone 7 (we've seen the carriers do a promo drive for Win Pho 7 recently), specifically because they like the interface (some going so far as to say that they like it because it's different from the iPhone). And these are all folks in their mid-20s who should be the target market for the iPhone. Maybe there's something in the water in Toronto or maybe it's just that people are waking up to the fact that there are choices other than a blackberry or an iPhone.
What would be better is how many high end android phones are being activated on a daily basis. Also, when was this data taken? I remember my stats class in Collage - Stats never lie and always lie.....
Bottom line 500,000 a day would equal 182,500,000 phones per year - Yeah right
Entirely believable. Just look at how many Symbian phones Nokia was selling. Look at the growth of the smartphone sector. Android is eating Symbian, Blackberry and Windows Mobile marketshare.
If you use GMail and Google Docs, would it matter whether you are on an iPad or Android tablet?
No, but I'm not sure that Google Docs is really acceptable as a mobile productivity tool for most people. Especially in Europe people will frequently find themselves outside their home market and won't want to rely expensive data roaming to be able to access their spreadsheets.
I'm personally not convinced that web-services beat native apps for mobile devices where I may not always have an internet connection, at least at a reasonable price.
Interesting given that all other recent info has Android growth stalling relative to the rest of the market.
Which is why ALL analyst reports and surveys, and especially spin from corporate executives (including Apple execs) are to be received with healthy skepticism. IMHO it's a no-brainer that Android will have the bigger market share. Unlike the Mac vs PC wars however the situation with developers is very different. To my knowledge there is not a single must-have app that is available only on Android devices because of their market share. And more so than that there are plenty of Android apps that work on or perform better on only certain devices.
And yes, Apple does care about market share, the good market share, the profitable market share, the worthwhile market share. And they've been doing quite well with that market share the past decade.
I love Apple laptops, but the iPhone just isn't as good as some of the Android phones now, so unless they can find a way to innovate massively with iPhone 5 they will continue to lose market share and potential profit. I traded in my iPhone 4 for a Samsung Galaxy S2 and frankly it is a far superior phone, all the iPhone apps I used are on Android, it's got a bigger screen, it's faster, more configurable and just easier to work with.
I will continue to use Apple computers, but I honestly can't see any benefit to iPhone any more when Android is so much more advanced and Apple is now playing catch up. I can completely replace my loader screen with cool 3d ones and replace the browser and... I just have so much choice now. 4 days in and I'm hooked. Seriously it is THAT much better, you should really take a look after the iPhone 5 comes out and actually ask yourself which is truly the better device. I'd be surprised if iPhone 5 is as good as Samsung Galaxy S2 when it gets the next version of Android.
Now I know some of you will get really mad and have a fit over what I wrote but let me just ask you to take a few deep breaths and really think for a minute about what it is that got you upset? It's just an opinion based on experience in words on a screen. Nothing to get worked up about.
Have a great day, I hope it's a good one for you!
Sure, but fragmentation on Android is very real indeed - Hulu launched their premium service on Android recently - on 6 handsets.
Fragmentation does happen. But there's a lot of people who keep acting like it's going to kill Android right away. It won't.
L.I.E. = (Lieing_Inconvenient_Exaggerated) stats... SHOW US THE DATA GOOGLE!!
PROVE IT!!!
yea all of the sudden... 1/2 a million activations per day yea right- i got bridge to sell you in the MOHABI DESSERT!!
That said, teenagers do like to be different from each other.
They can be the proverbial canaries in a coal mine. A teenager has far less invested in a platform he/she has been using for a few years compared to a somebody who's older and may have been using a platform right from launch. This makes them fickle consumers.
Android isnt going away, but Apple have plenty of firepower left.
Nobody said Apple is weak. People just get needlessly worked up with these stories. Android and iOS can co-exist quite happily. And indeed they'll have to...especially once Android starts showing up in your fridge, your washing machine, your car, etc.
The comparison was widely mentioned by Apple fans a couple years back. It only became "inane" after Android surpassed Apple's iOS Phone market share much faster than most anticipated.
+1
There used to be a lot of talk about how Android would never outsell the iPhone. It did. Then the goalpost became iOS (which is a much more accurate goal) and now that's happening. So now of course, all this talk of profit share instead of market share. Just keeping moving the goalposts.....
Personally, I find such discussions inane and annoying. Who cares? As long as the device I want does what I want it to (that includes app functionality), I really don't care for such comparisons.
Bragging about profit share is particularly moronic in my books. Unless I own stock in a company, I see any bragging about contributing to said company's profit margins, as a sign that I'm a poor consumer and shopper.
In my country, Romania, the average income is 200-300 Euros monthly. An iPhone is 200 Euro with a 29 Euro for 2 year contract. At the same time, An LG Optimus One with Android 2.1 is 3 Euro with a 16 Euro for 2 year contract. Guess what people buy?
I'm hearing more and more stories like this lately.
Given that Tim Cook has already stated that they are working on lower costs for iPhones and that "we will cede no markets (to competitors)," I'm thinking we are looking at a lower price for the unlocked iPhone *and* an iPhone nano very soon.
It seems like they pretty much have to do both to keep the domination of Android happening and to stave off WebOS.
L.I.E. = (Lieing_Inconvenient_Exaggerated) stats... SHOW US THE DATA GOOGLE!!
PROVE IT!!!
yea all of the sudden... 1/2 a million activations per day yea right- i got bridge to sell you in the MOHABI DESSERT!![/QUOTE]
Your YELLING would be more credible if you knew how to spell lying and Mojave....
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387493,00.asp
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=...w=1280&bih=685
Thanks
The truth of the article in my experience is that Apple has tried to maximise profit by spoon-feeding features to the market for far too long, because they know Apple fanboys will buy each new version even if there is almost no real difference in it except maybe a new front facing camera or an extra few megapixels.
I love Apple laptops, but the iPhone just isn't as good as some of the Android phones now, so unless they can find a way to innovate massively with iPhone 5 they will continue to lose market share and potential profit. I traded in my iPhone 4 for a Samsung Galaxy S2 and frankly it is a far superior phone, all the iPhone apps I used are on Android, it's got a bigger screen, it's faster, more configurable and just easier to work with.
I will continue to use Apple computers, but I honestly can't see any benefit to iPhone any more when Android is so much more advanced and Apple is now playing catch up. I can completely replace my loader screen with cool 3d ones and replace the browser and... I just have so much choice now. 4 days in and I'm hooked. Seriously it is THAT much better, you should really take a look after the iPhone 5 comes out and actually ask yourself which is truly the better device. I'd be surprised if iPhone 5 is as good as Samsung Galaxy S2 when it gets the next version of Android.
Now I know some of you will get really mad and have a fit over what I wrote but let me just ask you to take a few deep breaths and really think for a minute about what it is that got you upset? It's just an opinion based on experience in words on a screen. Nothing to get worked up about.
Have a great day, I hope it's a good one for you!
Apple is not going to re-target the top end of the market until it has swooped up the lower and mid range. That is why it is stagnating in market share - as the stats on profit share show - so if it wants to grow it's market it needs to price lower, not higher.
So no LTE until next year. No bigger screen. However the processor will be top of the range, and iOS, which is a real OS not a VM, will get more oomph out of any equivalent processor.
Fragmentation does happen. But there's a lot of people who keep acting like it's going to kill Android right away. It won't.
Oh absolutely it won't kill Android, but it produces an overall bad experience. I would love to see a survey that matches purchasing intent with current ownership - ie. what percentage of iPhone owners intend to buy an Android as their next phone versus vice-versa.
Android's growth is often cited as proof of iPhone's weakness, but the two are mostly uncorrelated, and will remain so for as long as their are so many weak platforms to devour.
Source: Asymco
+1
There used to be a lot of talk about how Android would never outsell the iPhone. It did. Then the goalpost became iOS (which is a much more accurate goal) and now that's happening. So now of course, all this talk of profit share instead of market share. Just keeping moving the goalposts.....
Not really.
First off, GatorGuy's comments about how the comparison "only became inane when Android market share (was a problem)" is quite false.
Secondly, iOS as a platform is still dominating Android by a long shot (it always has), so your statement above about "now that's happening," (Apple losing that dominance) is also false.
The fact is, that Android smartphone market share is recently stalling, and it's overall presence as a platform pales to iOS (it always has). Also, the release of iOS 5.0 and the debut of unlocked iPhones for the US, will remove almost any reason to jailbreak or switch to Android in that the two OS's will be feature comparable from this point onwards. if Apple also does something about the price of iPhones, then Android really hasn't got a chance of gaining any significant market share over iOS in the future.
Android is doing well in handsets in the USA and a few other countries, but it's a platform war not a smartphone war and iOS has been winning *that* war from day one.
+1
There used to be a lot of talk about how Android would never outsell the iPhone. It did. Then the goalpost became iOS (which is a much more accurate goal) and now that's happening. So now of course, all this talk of profit share instead of market share. Just keeping moving the goalposts.....
Personally, I find such discussions inane and annoying. Who cares? As long as the device I want does what I want it to (that includes app functionality), I really don't care for such comparisons.
Bragging about profit share is particularly moronic in my books. Unless I own stock in a company, I see any bragging about contributing to said company's profit margins, as a sign that I'm a poor consumer and shopper.
I do agree on the market share vs profits issue. In fact it's worth going back to the thread on RIM declining market share a few days ago. Their unit sales increased y-o-y but market share decreased. The rate of decline also slowed. In that thread there was certainty that RIM were dead.
One rule for Apple, one for RIM.
Apple may not win, but it has clear ways to regain market share, Which does matter.
No, but I'm not sure that Google Docs is really acceptable as a mobile productivity tool for most people. Especially in Europe people will frequently find themselves outside their home market and won't want to rely expensive data roaming to be able to access their spreadsheets.
I'm personally not convinced that web-services beat native apps for mobile devices where I may not always have an internet connection, at least at a reasonable price.
The benefit of web based services is that they are device agnostic. Nobody says you have to use them on a tablet running off your mobile data connection. You could just as easily access it from another computer on another desk, your work PC, your Mac at home or your tablet. When you travel, you can use a business centre, a computer at your other office, your laptop running on hotel wifi, an internet cafe, etc. Comparatively if you want to use iWork and iCloud, you need to constantly work, only on an iDevice or a Mac and only using iWork.
Don't get me wrong. I like, and use iWork, and if I get a tablet, one of the big reasons for me going iPad will be iWork...but...while web services don't offer the functionality of native apps, they offer certain key advantages that many might value: universal accessibility and a collaborative environment. For a good chunk of the general public that beats out being able to make pretty pages.
ps. This isn't just Google Docs. There's open office, MS Office online, etc.