If it weren't for Promise leaving out the cable, this wouldn't be necessary. Most external drives include the data cable. These Promise devices are the first I've seen to leave out the data cable.
Wonder if apple is giving them like $5/unit to keep it out...I would if I were trying to sell Apple brand interface cables that aren't available widely from other vendors.
Then a Thunerbolt-FW adaptor takes care of the other, less common uses of FW (scanners, audio gear, etc), and Apple starts shipping computers with only Tunderbolt and USB. USB will likely always have a price advantage for things like keyboards, mice, and even the smaller thumb drives. So I don't see USB being dropped anytime soon.
I don't think Thunderbolt proponents are saying that USB will be dropped. There is no point for human interface devices to be directly on a Thunderbolt bus, except maybe through a hub adapter. I'm guessing that thumb drives won't be certified because devices are supposed to have a pass-through to be a legit Thunderbolt device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Right_said_fred
I have to assume a touch of sarcasm, I don't think its sad, or regrettable, merely inconvenient
More or less. I don't understand how the store's search engine can perform so poorly at indexing its products, especially when Apple is starting to ramp up a much more ambitious internet platform soon. I've seen better web store indexing from much lower profile web stores. Also, there have been times that I didn't think Apple sold an item because it didn't show on a search within the store, when it was the search utility that didn't index the store properly.
More or less. I don't understand how the store's search engine can perform so poorly at indexing its products, especially when Apple is starting to ramp up a much more ambitious internet platform soon. I've seen better web store indexing from much lower profile web stores. Also, there have been times that I didn't think Apple sold an item because it didn't show on a search within the store, when it was the search utility that didn't index the store properly.
The only way to see an Apple part number is to add it to your cart then view the cart.
Wonder if apple is giving them like $5/unit to keep it out...I would if I were trying to sell Apple brand interface cables that aren't available widely from other vendors.
Unlikely. This isn't 1997...Apple doesn't need the money that badly. More likely Apple is the only vendor that actually has completed cables manufactured right now and rather than hold up shipment of a $1400-$2000 box for a $50 cable, they are just relying on the customer to buy it through Apple. As cable manufacturers catch up, it's likely you'll see them and other vendors include them like they do Firewire and USB cables now.
Not in the market for Thunderbolt yet...but I am glad so many are cause the early adopters that will spend $50 on a cable pay the R and D costs for guys like me who cant quite afford to be on the cutting edge...that said, even for cutting edge tech that cable should be no more than $25...Apple must model their cable business after monster...not a bad plan for stock holders
Price. Not saying thunderbolt wont work, it will for devices that neally needs it. But it wont be mainstream because of prices. USB 3.0 is backward compatiple AND cheap and still very fast.
IF seagates come up with a Thunderbold adapter, I will be more than curious to see how much it cost. Currently firewire adapters are 25$. imo you are better off buying an USB 3.0 drive and get the firewire adapter for 25$ than buying a seagate "mac" drive which are 40% more expensive and only include USB 2.0 and firewire adapters. With the USB 3.0 drive, you get USB 2.0/3.0 and for 25$ a firewire adapter, for a total cost that less expensive than a "mac" drive. And you will be able to upgrade to thunderbold when the adapter comes out.
1. A Mac Mini, strapped to one of these boxes ***is*** your Mac Pro.
2. Thunderbolt is effectively 4 10Gbps channels. The DisplayPort data is not treated specially compared to non-DisplayPort data, and it is not mandatory that you have an external monitor on the cable. Has anyone priced a dual-port 10Gbps NIC lately? They aren't exactly cheap. EVERY Thunderbolt Mac now has the equivalent of a dual-port 10Gbps NIC built in.
Search Amazon for "2CH 10GB Pcie Copper Nic Oneconnect No Cables" and you'll see it priced at $536.73. And the cables? $130 for each channel. Remember that Thunderbolt is, effectively TWO channels of 10GbE. Apple is ***subsidizing*** the cable price, not trying to rip anyone off!
Are you really complaining about a $50 cable? Try $260. Perhaps you need to be in the industry to realize how mind-boggling and bleeding edge Thunderbolt is!
Are you really complaining about a $50 cable? Try $260. Perhaps you need to be in the industry to realize how mind-boggling and bleeding edge Thunderbolt is!
Perhaps so.
But for someone only interested in connecting an external monitor, or HD, $50 is pricy. HDMI and FireWire cables are dirt cheap these days.
For thunderbolt to be successful with the masses, prices need to come down.
All Apple, Monster et al are doing is charging what the market will bear, exploiting the ignorant, impatient and those who simply have too much money to care whether they pay $2 or $200 for a cable.
For now Thunderbolt peripherals are either high end or ultra high end. Once there are consumer Thunderbolt devices there will have to be consumer priced cables to connect them.
1. A Mac Mini, strapped to one of these boxes ***is*** your Mac Pro.
I liked everything you said except this. Sure, a Mac Mini w/Thunderbolt is way cool. Upgrade it to Sandy Bridge and toss in some quad core processors as a BTO option and you have a modern day SE/30. But I still think most pros wouldn't give up 6-12 cores of Xeon badness, not to mention the data throughout of that system.
A smaller Mac Pro would be pretty cool though. After all, how many PCI slots do you really need these days?
All Apple, Monster et al are doing is charging what the market will bear, exploiting the ignorant, impatient and those who simply have too much money to care whether they pay $2 or $200 for a cable.
No, that's what Monster is doing. Apple is selling the very first cable of a spec that just came out. USB cables used to be that expensive.
While I think $49 for a 6' Thunderbolt cable is ridiculous, I also think that Apple is pricing them that way because they can. The prices will come down when more accessory companies make and sell their own, and when peripheral makers include them in the box. Right now it's the scarcity that's letting Apple get away with the high price. Though even after others get in the game, it's highly likely that Apple will still charge "premium" prices.
I remember back when Apple had their extended keyboard for something like $129, while you could buy a fully functional third party keyboard for $29 or even less.
That's very nice, though very forward-looking. I can see using that when I replace a Mac that I still haven't bought yet. Given how often I've needed to upgrade lately, that could easily be six years.
That's very nice, though very forward-looking. I can see using that when I replace a Mac that I still haven't bought yet. Given how often I've needed to upgrade lately, that could easily be six years.
Target disk mode is actually quite useful as a support tool in enterprise and education environments. Just because you won't use it doesn't mean it's useless.
Target disk mode is actually quite useful as a support tool in enterprise and education environments. Just because you won't use it doesn't mean it's useless.
Just to be clear, I didn't say I won't use it and I didn't say it was useless. But it is nice to hear that it has more immediate uses, though I'd like to hear more about it. I usually just boot from an external hard drive for my own tech support. On a given computer of mine, target disk mode is used two or three times in the entire life of the machine.
Comments
If it weren't for Promise leaving out the cable, this wouldn't be necessary. Most external drives include the data cable. These Promise devices are the first I've seen to leave out the data cable.
Wonder if apple is giving them like $5/unit to keep it out...I would if I were trying to sell Apple brand interface cables that aren't available widely from other vendors.
Then a Thunerbolt-FW adaptor takes care of the other, less common uses of FW (scanners, audio gear, etc), and Apple starts shipping computers with only Tunderbolt and USB. USB will likely always have a price advantage for things like keyboards, mice, and even the smaller thumb drives. So I don't see USB being dropped anytime soon.
I don't think Thunderbolt proponents are saying that USB will be dropped. There is no point for human interface devices to be directly on a Thunderbolt bus, except maybe through a hub adapter. I'm guessing that thumb drives won't be certified because devices are supposed to have a pass-through to be a legit Thunderbolt device.
I have to assume a touch of sarcasm, I don't think its sad, or regrettable, merely inconvenient
More or less. I don't understand how the store's search engine can perform so poorly at indexing its products, especially when Apple is starting to ramp up a much more ambitious internet platform soon. I've seen better web store indexing from much lower profile web stores. Also, there have been times that I didn't think Apple sold an item because it didn't show on a search within the store, when it was the search utility that didn't index the store properly.
More or less. I don't understand how the store's search engine can perform so poorly at indexing its products, especially when Apple is starting to ramp up a much more ambitious internet platform soon. I've seen better web store indexing from much lower profile web stores. Also, there have been times that I didn't think Apple sold an item because it didn't show on a search within the store, when it was the search utility that didn't index the store properly.
The only way to see an Apple part number is to add it to your cart then view the cart.
Lame!
Wonder if apple is giving them like $5/unit to keep it out...I would if I were trying to sell Apple brand interface cables that aren't available widely from other vendors.
Unlikely. This isn't 1997...Apple doesn't need the money that badly. More likely Apple is the only vendor that actually has completed cables manufactured right now and rather than hold up shipment of a $1400-$2000 box for a $50 cable, they are just relying on the customer to buy it through Apple. As cable manufacturers catch up, it's likely you'll see them and other vendors include them like they do Firewire and USB cables now.
Not in the market for Thunderbolt yet...but I am glad so many are cause the early adopters that will spend $50 on a cable pay the R and D costs for guys like me who cant quite afford to be on the cutting edge...that said, even for cutting edge tech that cable should be no more than $25...Apple must model their cable business after monster...not a bad plan for stock holders
$50 for an active cable isn't too bad.
Define and defense your position.
Price. Not saying thunderbolt wont work, it will for devices that neally needs it. But it wont be mainstream because of prices. USB 3.0 is backward compatiple AND cheap and still very fast.
IF seagates come up with a Thunderbold adapter, I will be more than curious to see how much it cost. Currently firewire adapters are 25$. imo you are better off buying an USB 3.0 drive and get the firewire adapter for 25$ than buying a seagate "mac" drive which are 40% more expensive and only include USB 2.0 and firewire adapters. With the USB 3.0 drive, you get USB 2.0/3.0 and for 25$ a firewire adapter, for a total cost that less expensive than a "mac" drive. And you will be able to upgrade to thunderbold when the adapter comes out.
FreeAgent® GoFlex™ Upgrade Cable:
http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/accessories
Price. Not saying thunderbolt wont work, it will for devices that neally needs it. But it wont be mainstream because of prices.
Licensing is free.
buying a seagate "mac" drive
Complete scam. They need sued for that. This isn't even a valid point.
1. A Mac Mini, strapped to one of these boxes ***is*** your Mac Pro.
2. Thunderbolt is effectively 4 10Gbps channels. The DisplayPort data is not treated specially compared to non-DisplayPort data, and it is not mandatory that you have an external monitor on the cable. Has anyone priced a dual-port 10Gbps NIC lately? They aren't exactly cheap. EVERY Thunderbolt Mac now has the equivalent of a dual-port 10Gbps NIC built in.
Search Amazon for "2CH 10GB Pcie Copper Nic Oneconnect No Cables" and you'll see it priced at $536.73. And the cables? $130 for each channel. Remember that Thunderbolt is, effectively TWO channels of 10GbE. Apple is ***subsidizing*** the cable price, not trying to rip anyone off!
Are you really complaining about a $50 cable? Try $260. Perhaps you need to be in the industry to realize how mind-boggling and bleeding edge Thunderbolt is!
http://www.cablestogo.com/product_li...3-_-2962866891
$50 for an active cable isn't too bad.
What is active about it? It's not the kind of TB cable that has fiber optics and optical to electrical conversion in it.
Your feeling is wrong. The Apple Store clearly lists the PROMISE VTrak x30 Series (16x 2TB SATA) 3U RAID Subsystem at $19,999.00. The mistake in the placement of the decimal point was made by AppleInsider, not Apple.
The decimal point was in the correct place; it's the comma that wasn't.
$50.00 for a 6ft cable? And I thought Monster had a monopoly on such things.
No? just a patent! Apple will have to license, or get sued.
Are you really complaining about a $50 cable? Try $260. Perhaps you need to be in the industry to realize how mind-boggling and bleeding edge Thunderbolt is!
Perhaps so.
But for someone only interested in connecting an external monitor, or HD, $50 is pricy. HDMI and FireWire cables are dirt cheap these days.
For thunderbolt to be successful with the masses, prices need to come down.
Keanu sez WHOA!
For now Thunderbolt peripherals are either high end or ultra high end. Once there are consumer Thunderbolt devices there will have to be consumer priced cables to connect them.
Two points:
1. A Mac Mini, strapped to one of these boxes ***is*** your Mac Pro.
I liked everything you said except this. Sure, a Mac Mini w/Thunderbolt is way cool. Upgrade it to Sandy Bridge and toss in some quad core processors as a BTO option and you have a modern day SE/30. But I still think most pros wouldn't give up 6-12 cores of Xeon badness, not to mention the data throughout of that system.
A smaller Mac Pro would be pretty cool though. After all, how many PCI slots do you really need these days?
All Apple, Monster et al are doing is charging what the market will bear, exploiting the ignorant, impatient and those who simply have too much money to care whether they pay $2 or $200 for a cable.
No, that's what Monster is doing. Apple is selling the very first cable of a spec that just came out. USB cables used to be that expensive.
I remember back when Apple had their extended keyboard for something like $129, while you could buy a fully functional third party keyboard for $29 or even less.
Thunderbolt Target mode?
That's very nice, though very forward-looking. I can see using that when I replace a Mac that I still haven't bought yet. Given how often I've needed to upgrade lately, that could easily be six years.
That's very nice, though very forward-looking. I can see using that when I replace a Mac that I still haven't bought yet. Given how often I've needed to upgrade lately, that could easily be six years.
Target disk mode is actually quite useful as a support tool in enterprise and education environments. Just because you won't use it doesn't mean it's useless.
Target disk mode is actually quite useful as a support tool in enterprise and education environments. Just because you won't use it doesn't mean it's useless.
Just to be clear, I didn't say I won't use it and I didn't say it was useless. But it is nice to hear that it has more immediate uses, though I'd like to hear more about it. I usually just boot from an external hard drive for my own tech support. On a given computer of mine, target disk mode is used two or three times in the entire life of the machine.