FCPX projects and events are a superset of iMovie projects and events. Apple owns all the iMovie code and thus can write FCPX equivalents to support iMovie content and still take advantage of the enhancements in FCPX (OCL, GCD, etc.)
FCP7 projects include a lot of 3rd-party effects and filters. This 3rd-party code will not run without change on the FCPX code-base. Even if Apple could "simulate" these 3rd-party additions, they would not perform up to par with the FCPX UX -- no real-time presentation without rendering, etc. Apple does not own this code, therefore it cannot upgrade the code to exploit FCPX.
Apparently, once the initial features of FCPX were solidified, the FCPX plugin SDK was made available to some developers.
There are a few 3rd-party plugins already rewritten for FCPX.
The FCPX plugin SDK is now generally available, so I expect many more developers will convert their plugins to FCPX.
You say: "It does, however, open and convert older iMovie projects, so in functionality, it is closer to an upgrade to iMovie than to FCP."
FCPX can do some things, now, that FCP7 will never be able to do without a total rewrite -- probably taking 2-3 years to deliver a robust and reliable replacement.
I suspect that within 18 months, FCPX will have enough features to satisfy most pro needs.
Your argument of incompatible plug-ins is not reason enough for me. If they had instead converted FCP 7 to FCP 8 and made it 64 bit with OpenCL and GCD, the plug-ins would have broken as well. That happens all the time with other applications from various vendors. So the 3rd party developers would have to rewrite their plug-ins anyway. At least when that was done we would still be able to work with our existing projects which are constantly under revision and only need minor updates. Having your new software be able open the previous file format should be job one when releasing the next version.
The FCPX petition was #8 on PetitionsOnline.com with over 600 signatures. I am betting there are a lot more iWeb and MobileMe Gallery users out there than there are high end professional video editors. I hope they will respond in force to Apple's decision to cut them off. Use the link in my signature line make yourselves heard.
That petition is worded terribly. It just sounds impertinent.
Permanently removing a product from production is the very definition of obsolete. There will be no upgrades, no new versions. It's dead - it has no future. It's obsolete.
Obsolete: No longer has any usefullness. Antiquated.
Discontinued: End-of-life (EOL): the product is in the end of its product lifetime and a vendor will no longer be marketing, selling, or promoting a particular product and may also be limiting or ending support for the product.
FCP7 is still going to be useful for the next few years.
Its not about making smartphones. Its the integrated ecosystem of hardware and software that gives customers a good user experience when using Apple devices. You won't get that with just the iPhone alone.
Professionals would gladly pay $1000 had it been really powerful 64 bit 7 updated rather than a totally different and totally incompatible product. It's about work flow not price for professionals and edit houses. They are not whiners or computer nerds they are companies with multiple Mac Pros and high end media servers and many staff with on going work dependent on being able to open and use existing projects. A single production project could easily be anywhere from half a million to multi- million dollars. You have to see this in context.
Its not about making smartphones. Its the integrated ecosystem of hardware and software that gives customers a good user experience when using Apple devices. You won't get that with just the iPhone alone.
I'm making a point. If Apple chucked everything right now and transitioned dev tools to PC, they could do quite well by leveraging MacOS (if they licensed Lion to run on PCs), iOS and the iPhone (which of course would still include iTunes).
They could wipe out Microsoft and simplify their product line to the point of it just being silly.
Now about the refunds: WHINERS. They'll come straight back once the first real update is pushed.
If you bought a brand new car and it was missing a spare tire, turn signals, and the passenger door didn't open, would your objections to this be WHINING? There are many FCP7 users who are literally unable to use FCPX because it does not have features they use EVERY DAY. And no, they can't just switch between FCP7 and FCPX to get those features as the two do not share the same project file formats. Objecting to being downgrade is not WHINING. It is 100% legitimate.
FCP X is clearly not close to ready for pro studio use.
We bought a copy the morning it was released. Spent a week carefully going through everything. There are some very amazing tools that we really, really liked. But in the end, the missing workflow abilities, 3rd party hardware support, and collaboration tools are a deal killer. FCP X was DOA for us. We're sticking to FCP 7 for the time being with the plan to adopt FCP X if they fix it within 12 months. If that doesn't happen, we're already looking towards alternatives to replace FCP in our studio.
I think FCPX is a fairly adequate application for professional work if you aren't already using FCS.
For example: A new TV commercial, first launch, it runs 30 sec. Then we re-edit it to be 15 seconds after the initial campaign. Then finally down to 10 or even 5 seconds. Another example is we have several takes and we mix and match scenes.
When you already have everything logged and captured in FCP you don't want to go back and reinvent the wheel to continue working with a project. You want to open the project and save it as a new name and make some modifications, FCPX does not work like that or even open up the original FCP 7 project file.
I think it would be a very simple matter to parse the FCP XML and point to all the clips (create events), and put them in an FCPX story line that approximates an FCP sequence... but there's more to it than that.
The first highlighted item is the clip file location -- no problem!
The second highlighted item is a 3rd-party filter in FCP that does not exist (yet) in FCPX -- big problem!
The "filter" is used to create a composite of 5 video clips.
This FCP sequence also uses several other common 3rd-party generators such.as Boris Title 3D.
Since this 3rd-party code is not yet available in FCPX -- all that can be done is ignore it or insert marker in FCPX as to what's missing.
That might be good enough!
But, I'd be willing to bet that within 6 months, most of the popular FCP plugins will have FCPX equivalents.
So, I suspect that you will be able to do a creditable job of opening an FCP sequence in FCPX.
Finally, there is an ability to create folders within FCPX -- though it isn't defined what they are used for. I suspect that you will be able to organize all your FCP clients/projects/sequences/media with a similar construct in FCPX.
I hate to be the one to tell you, but Apple could do quite well if they discontinued every one of their computing and software products except the iPhone. It's worth that much to them now.
Well, la-de-da! I don't fucking care about Apple and never have!
This isn't about the cult of Apple Inc. This is about people trying to use their computers to DO THEIR WORK! Apple used to be about THAT.
Go back to Bloomberg or some bubble-watching shithole pyramid scheme inventment forum.
I don't think it was wrong for Apple to reboot Final Cut. The big problem I see is simply the abrupt EOL of their legacy FCS3 product, relied upon by an entire industry that has very specific needs. While FCPX might soon me a much better product than FCS3 in terms of creative workflow, there are critical needs that video and film producers have, such as outputting to a broadcast monitor that are simply unsupported at this point.
What Apple should do is offer a free FCS3 license with a purchase of FCPX. It will get the industry playing with the new product and allow them to buy seats to continue working on current projects, and as well as give them the ability to keep working in the status quo environment while FCPX matures. Secondly, Apple should publicly commit to support FCP7 on Mac OS X through version 10.8 (Lion is 10.7 - for all intents and purposes, the current version of the Mac OS). This would remove a lot of the anxiety that exists, as I'm sure Apple will be working at high speed to get the missing features and 3rd party support into FCPX.
Those are some pretty creative (and logical) ideas!
So wouldn't it make sense to stop using Apple products if they don't do what you want instead of randomly insulting people?
Mmmm... The people we a discussing, high end production studios, actually want to continue, they just want to know they can. Stop thinking in terms of a single user. No one here saying X is prosumer at the moment is against it per se as far as I can see. It is the sudden brick wall they just hit in the immediate future of 7 that is scary when you have projects planned over the next few years and a small fortune invested in equipment and man power.
All Apple have to do is commit to continued support for 7, keep selling it and stand behind it during OS and hardware changes. Hopefully X will add all the missing features and nothing will be lost.
What would be sad is if there were a mass exodus of high end users from FCPro.
I think it is worth pointing out this isn't a Luddite situation. These are companies and people who have been at the bleeding edge of technology for decades.
It is the sudden brick wall they just hit in the immediate future of 7 that is scary when you have projects planned over the next few years and a small fortune invested in equipment and man power.
All Apple have to do is commit to continued support for 7
That would be great, but I think Apple has already sunk that ship. Why? Bet you big dollars that Lion will break the living shit of of FCP 7. If the new Mac Pros that come with Lion installed can't run Snow Leopard (and this is likely) then people are doubly screwed.
Comments
That's an oversimplification!
FCPX projects and events are a superset of iMovie projects and events. Apple owns all the iMovie code and thus can write FCPX equivalents to support iMovie content and still take advantage of the enhancements in FCPX (OCL, GCD, etc.)
FCP7 projects include a lot of 3rd-party effects and filters. This 3rd-party code will not run without change on the FCPX code-base. Even if Apple could "simulate" these 3rd-party additions, they would not perform up to par with the FCPX UX -- no real-time presentation without rendering, etc. Apple does not own this code, therefore it cannot upgrade the code to exploit FCPX.
Apparently, once the initial features of FCPX were solidified, the FCPX plugin SDK was made available to some developers.
There are a few 3rd-party plugins already rewritten for FCPX.
The FCPX plugin SDK is now generally available, so I expect many more developers will convert their plugins to FCPX.
You say: "It does, however, open and convert older iMovie projects, so in functionality, it is closer to an upgrade to iMovie than to FCP."
FCPX can do some things, now, that FCP7 will never be able to do without a total rewrite -- probably taking 2-3 years to deliver a robust and reliable replacement.
I suspect that within 18 months, FCPX will have enough features to satisfy most pro needs.
Your argument of incompatible plug-ins is not reason enough for me. If they had instead converted FCP 7 to FCP 8 and made it 64 bit with OpenCL and GCD, the plug-ins would have broken as well. That happens all the time with other applications from various vendors. So the 3rd party developers would have to rewrite their plug-ins anyway. At least when that was done we would still be able to work with our existing projects which are constantly under revision and only need minor updates. Having your new software be able open the previous file format should be job one when releasing the next version.
Apple is now a consumer electronics company. Anything they release with the word "PRO" attached to it should be taken with a grain of salt.
Sad, true.
The FCPX petition was #8 on PetitionsOnline.com with over 600 signatures. I am betting there are a lot more iWeb and MobileMe Gallery users out there than there are high end professional video editors. I hope they will respond in force to Apple's decision to cut them off. Use the link in my signature line make yourselves heard.
That petition is worded terribly. It just sounds impertinent.
Steve said that Apple interviews "customers" and listens to what they have to say.
My reply is off topic but I don't believe that for a minute. Otherwise the gap between a couple of Apple's desktop computers wouldn't exist.
Permanently removing a product from production is the very definition of obsolete. There will be no upgrades, no new versions. It's dead - it has no future. It's obsolete.
Obsolete: No longer has any usefullness. Antiquated.
Discontinued: End-of-life (EOL): the product is in the end of its product lifetime and a vendor will no longer be marketing, selling, or promoting a particular product and may also be limiting or ending support for the product.
FCP7 is still going to be useful for the next few years.
Its not about making smartphones. Its the integrated ecosystem of hardware and software that gives customers a good user experience when using Apple devices. You won't get that with just the iPhone alone.
++++++++
Professionals would gladly pay $1000 had it been really powerful 64 bit 7 updated rather than a totally different and totally incompatible product. It's about work flow not price for professionals and edit houses. They are not whiners or computer nerds they are companies with multiple Mac Pros and high end media servers and many staff with on going work dependent on being able to open and use existing projects. A single production project could easily be anywhere from half a million to multi- million dollars. You have to see this in context.
Why are you arguing with these idiots?
Its not about making smartphones. Its the integrated ecosystem of hardware and software that gives customers a good user experience when using Apple devices. You won't get that with just the iPhone alone.
I'm making a point. If Apple chucked everything right now and transitioned dev tools to PC, they could do quite well by leveraging MacOS (if they licensed Lion to run on PCs), iOS and the iPhone (which of course would still include iTunes).
They could wipe out Microsoft and simplify their product line to the point of it just being silly.
Never liked FCP1-7. There has never been anything special about it. I believe the only reason why it's been a smash hit all these years is its price.
Now about the refunds: WHINERS. They'll come straight back once the first real update is pushed.
If you bought a brand new car and it was missing a spare tire, turn signals, and the passenger door didn't open, would your objections to this be WHINING? There are many FCP7 users who are literally unable to use FCPX because it does not have features they use EVERY DAY. And no, they can't just switch between FCP7 and FCPX to get those features as the two do not share the same project file formats. Objecting to being downgrade is not WHINING. It is 100% legitimate.
We bought a copy the morning it was released. Spent a week carefully going through everything. There are some very amazing tools that we really, really liked. But in the end, the missing workflow abilities, 3rd party hardware support, and collaboration tools are a deal killer. FCP X was DOA for us. We're sticking to FCP 7 for the time being with the plan to adopt FCP X if they fix it within 12 months. If that doesn't happen, we're already looking towards alternatives to replace FCP in our studio.
And yes.... we got our refund.
There are many FCP7 users who are literally unable to use FCPX because it does not have features they use EVERY DAY.
So they can use Final Cut Pro 7.
And no, they can't just switch between FCP7 and FCPX to get those features as the two do not share the same project file formats.
Never said they could. They can use Final Cut Pro 7.
Objecting to being downgrade is not WHINING. It is 100% legitimate.
Except they weren't forced to buy it.
I think FCPX is a fairly adequate application for professional work if you aren't already using FCS.
For example: A new TV commercial, first launch, it runs 30 sec. Then we re-edit it to be 15 seconds after the initial campaign. Then finally down to 10 or even 5 seconds. Another example is we have several takes and we mix and match scenes.
When you already have everything logged and captured in FCP you don't want to go back and reinvent the wheel to continue working with a project. You want to open the project and save it as a new name and make some modifications, FCPX does not work like that or even open up the original FCP 7 project file.
I think it would be a very simple matter to parse the FCP XML and point to all the clips (create events), and put them in an FCPX story line that approximates an FCP sequence... but there's more to it than that.
Here's a snippet of an FCP XML file:
</comments>
<file id="Dish Punt2">
<name>Dish Punt.mov</name>
<pathurl>file://localhost/Users/richard/Movies/Dish%20Punt.mov</pathurl>
<rate>
<timebase>30</timebase>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
</rate>
<duration>237</duration>
<media>
<video>
<duration>237</duration>
<samplecharacteristics>
<width>1280</width>
<height>720</height>
</samplecharacteristics>
</video>
<audio>
<samplecharacteristics>
<samplerate>44100</samplerate>
<depth>32</depth>
</samplecharacteristics>
<channelcount>2</channelcount>
</audio>
</media>
</file>
<filter>
<enabled>TRUE</enabled>
<start>-1</start>
<end>-1</end>
<effect>
<name>Eight-Point Garbage Matte</name>
<effectid>Eight-Point Garbage Matte</effectid>
<effectcategory>Matte</effectcategory>
The first highlighted item is the clip file location -- no problem!
The second highlighted item is a 3rd-party filter in FCP that does not exist (yet) in FCPX -- big problem!
The "filter" is used to create a composite of 5 video clips.
This FCP sequence also uses several other common 3rd-party generators such.as Boris Title 3D.
Since this 3rd-party code is not yet available in FCPX -- all that can be done is ignore it or insert marker in FCPX as to what's missing.
That might be good enough!
But, I'd be willing to bet that within 6 months, most of the popular FCP plugins will have FCPX equivalents.
So, I suspect that you will be able to do a creditable job of opening an FCP sequence in FCPX.
Finally, there is an ability to create folders within FCPX -- though it isn't defined what they are used for. I suspect that you will be able to organize all your FCP clients/projects/sequences/media with a similar construct in FCPX.
I hate to be the one to tell you, but Apple could do quite well if they discontinued every one of their computing and software products except the iPhone. It's worth that much to them now.
Well, la-de-da! I don't fucking care about Apple and never have!
This isn't about the cult of Apple Inc. This is about people trying to use their computers to DO THEIR WORK! Apple used to be about THAT.
Go back to Bloomberg or some bubble-watching shithole pyramid scheme inventment forum.
Why are you arguing with these idiots?
Ok I give up.
I don't think it was wrong for Apple to reboot Final Cut. The big problem I see is simply the abrupt EOL of their legacy FCS3 product, relied upon by an entire industry that has very specific needs. While FCPX might soon me a much better product than FCS3 in terms of creative workflow, there are critical needs that video and film producers have, such as outputting to a broadcast monitor that are simply unsupported at this point.
What Apple should do is offer a free FCS3 license with a purchase of FCPX. It will get the industry playing with the new product and allow them to buy seats to continue working on current projects, and as well as give them the ability to keep working in the status quo environment while FCPX matures. Secondly, Apple should publicly commit to support FCP7 on Mac OS X through version 10.8 (Lion is 10.7 - for all intents and purposes, the current version of the Mac OS). This would remove a lot of the anxiety that exists, as I'm sure Apple will be working at high speed to get the missing features and 3rd party support into FCPX.
Those are some pretty creative (and logical) ideas!
Well, la-de-da! I don't fucking care about Apple and never have!
This isn't about the cult of Apple Inc. This is about people trying to use their computers to DO THEIR WORK! Apple used to be about THAT.
Go back to Bloomberg or some bubble-watching shithole pyramid scheme inventment forum.
So wouldn't it make sense to stop using Apple products if they don't do what you want instead of randomly insulting people?
So wouldn't it make sense to stop using Apple products if they don't do what you want instead of randomly insulting people?
Mmmm... The people we a discussing, high end production studios, actually want to continue, they just want to know they can. Stop thinking in terms of a single user. No one here saying X is prosumer at the moment is against it per se as far as I can see. It is the sudden brick wall they just hit in the immediate future of 7 that is scary when you have projects planned over the next few years and a small fortune invested in equipment and man power.
All Apple have to do is commit to continued support for 7, keep selling it and stand behind it during OS and hardware changes. Hopefully X will add all the missing features and nothing will be lost.
What would be sad is if there were a mass exodus of high end users from FCPro.
I think it is worth pointing out this isn't a Luddite situation. These are companies and people who have been at the bleeding edge of technology for decades.
It is the sudden brick wall they just hit in the immediate future of 7 that is scary when you have projects planned over the next few years and a small fortune invested in equipment and man power.
All Apple have to do is commit to continued support for 7
That would be great, but I think Apple has already sunk that ship. Why? Bet you big dollars that Lion will break the living shit of of FCP 7. If the new Mac Pros that come with Lion installed can't run Snow Leopard (and this is likely) then people are doubly screwed.