Dissatisfied Final Cut Pro X customers receive refunds from Apple

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  • Reply 141 of 167
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rtkane View Post


    Mr. Jobs reportedly asked the assembled engineers and other Final Cut Pro X team members, ?Can anyone tell me what Final Cut Pro X is supposed to do?? When one of those employees then volunteered a satisfactory answer, Mr. Jobs followed up with, ?So why the f*#k doesn?t it do that??



    Don't forget the line, "You should all hate each other for releasing this piece of crap...!"
  • Reply 142 of 167
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    And to think only last week I was berated for even suggesting that Apple offer trial periods for apps to see if customers find sufficient value in them.



    No. Apple is so perfect anyone should love anything they buy from Apple from day one. Either that, or they "shouldn't have bought it in the first place", are a "whiner", or an "Apple-basher".



    [sarcasm... in case anyone didn't get it]
  • Reply 143 of 167
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Now about the refunds: WHINERS. They'll come straight back once the first real update is pushed.



    May I respond with:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mKunert View Post


    Apple today announced a new keyboard.

    Called iKeys Pro X. Being touted as revolutionary, the new keyboard discards the inefficient and archaic QWERTY key arrangement in exchange for a new arrangement designed by Apple. Apple is dedicated to extending the keyboards connectivity, as currently the keyboard doesn't connect to any hardware. Nor will it work with any previously written documents. Sales off all other keyboards have declared end-of-life by Apple and are as of today, withdrawn from stores. The resulting furor from customers pushed Apple product managers to contacted a noted blogger on the price of tea in China, and explain to her how some of missing features are actually hidden in the keyboard and or planned improvements. By Sept 2011, Apple plans to reintroduce the letter "R".



  • Reply 144 of 167
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    And to think only last week I was berated for even suggesting that Apple offer trial periods for apps to see if customers find sufficient value in them.



    Yeah! In hindsight, Apple should have offered a free "trial" version to any FCS licensee.



    And maybe a 45 day trail for new purchases.



    Maybe the app store can't do trials, yet!
  • Reply 145 of 167
    I find it interesting that Apple decided to sell this exclusively in the App Store. A botched release would be highly and instantly visible to anyone, and without censoring comments or playing games with the ratings, Apple would not be able to PR their way out of it. In other words, transparency and visibility means that the public knows very quickly that this product is not universally well regarded. Without the App Store and its rating system, the feedback and failure of FCPX would have played out in the blogosphere, and it would have taken weeks for the public to sense dissatisfaction from video professionals, who are normally more of a niche market anyway.
  • Reply 146 of 167
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    No. Apple is so perfect anyone should love anything they buy from Apple from day one. Either that, or they "shouldn't have bought it in the first place", are a "whiner", or an "Apple-basher".



    [sarcasm... in case anyone didn't get it]



    The FCPX haters are holding it wrong.



    [sarcasm... in case anyone didn't get it]
  • Reply 147 of 167
    And for the record, I'm not complaining because I don't use FCPX. I may someday if it grows into fitting my needs. For my production capability, I splunked down $800 for Premiere Pro CS5. Yes, I don't like Adobe sometimes, but Premiere Pro is very mature now, not the crash-happy piece of junk it used to be, and it supports all the formats and features I need, including bag-of-hurt production.
  • Reply 148 of 167
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    Last I checked FCP7 still works. It is not dead.



    - FCP7 is not going to be updated.

    - FCP7 is no longer sold.

    - FCP7 has been recalled from retail channels.



    FCP7 is dead.



    Quote:

    And in the coming future, FCPX will have everything you need in FCP7 and more.



    Why... because it fits some fanboy ideal of what Apple will do?



    Quote:

    The real pros understand that, just like the printing pros that eventually moved to InDesign.



    The real pros... the ones I know editing for broadcast have a very good understanding of what FCPX means. A transition to Avid or Adobe.



    FCPX doesn't allow for silly, trivial things like drawing from any projects you've ever created before (which happens constantly) organizing media in a way that makes sense for anything more professional than wedding videos ("Events"... seriously?), accessing networked storage, collaborating with... anyone... accessing decades of tape media, using broadcast-quality monitors, doing anything meaningful with audio (can I assign audio tracks? Nope! FCPX is designed around the idea that they don't exist!)



    Trying to explain these things over and over again to people who don't know what post is like, don't care to know, and assume it's a case of "Ewww... new is bad" is like talking to the box FCP7 came in.



    Many workflows cannot be updated to work with FCPX because FCPX simply cannot produce the results needed through any combination of actions. Waiting for a fix from Apple is a nonstarter because Apple thought this was a good idea in the first place, and therefore doesn't know or doesn't care what professionals need to get through a day at work. FCPX was not designed around bins and audio tracks, collaboration with others, and backwards compatibility. It's just broken on every level and utterly useless to a significant portion of the FCP7 user base.
  • Reply 149 of 167
    graxspoograxspoo Posts: 162member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    Excuse me, but that is a complete fabrication. Adobe did not keep updating Pagemaker, but you know what? Printing pros kept using PageMaker and switched to InDesign when it met their needs - which was at release, a year later, or multiple years later. What they didn't do is take to the Internet in droves and cry like little babies.



    Oh yeah? Here's an article written a year after InDesign had been released:

    http://web.mit.edu/is/isnews/v16/n01/160103.html



    It notes that Adobe released new versions of Pagemaker and rebranded it for business.



    Here's another one talking about Pagemaker 7, which was release TWO YEARS after InDesign was released: http://designer-info.com/DTP/adobe_pagemaker_7.htm



    And according to Wikipedia, Pagemaker development wasn't completely ended until 2004, FIVE YEARS after InDesign was released: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_PageMaker And even at that point they would still sell you a copy, and still give you tech support! They also give you tools for translating Pagemaker projects into InDesign projects.



    In fact, you can still go buy Pagemaker, if you want: http://www.adobe.com/products/pagemaker/index.html



    That's how you do it.



    Plus, Adobe had signaled that InDesign was coming long before they released it. That's WHY nobody freaked out. It's not that video professionals are cry-babies, it's that Apple completely mismanaged the transition.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    Last I checked FCP7 still works. It is not dead. And in the coming future, FCPX will have everything you need in FCP7 and more. The real pros understand that, just like the printing pros that eventually moved to InDesign.



    It's dead as far as updates are concerned, and given the speed at which Apple releases new system software, who knows how long it will keep running. That's not something to build a business around. So for enterprise, in terms of planning, it is dead. Also, many video pros are not liking what they are seeing in FCPX. Apple's entire direction seems to be headed away from serious post production work, and so it is unclear if FCPX will ever have the missing features. If Apple had any clue as to what pros actually need, why on earth would they release it like this and simultaneously kill FCP? It makes no sense. Apple has shown they are completely out of touch. That is not confidence inspiring.
  • Reply 150 of 167
    graxspoograxspoo Posts: 162member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    Like hell they did.



    Please see my response to Gustav.
  • Reply 151 of 167
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by martimus3060 View Post


    1. It seems that the release of this product was given a go to market date and Apple management forced the date on the release team. Evidence for this is all the back-pedalling being done about the missing features that are just around the corner. Why release something that is feature incomplete and sure to be regarded as junk when you know that in a month or two a whole lot of features that are needed for the product to be properly useful will be ready, why not just wait and ship it when its really done? Real artists ship, that's why.



    There is no back pedaling. This is classic Apple. Every fresh software (and this is a fresh software not an upgrade) comes missing features etc. Point Zero is really the last Beta. Those of us crazy enough to get the point zero are in the 'in the field' testers.



    Some of the things that folks are griping about aren't really used as widely as the griping makes it sound out. Others are used and are probably at the top of the list to roll out next after the initial bug checks are done. We could see them within the month. Given that no real professional is going to use FCPX for real projects for a few months to learn the new UI etc, it's not a huge deal. Other things will be left for plug-ins by the companies that own the tech rather than making us all pay for tech we don't all need and so on.



    If we had the numbers of actual sales to negative reviews to those that actually demand a refund it probably isn't as horrible as the blogs are making it sound. And in a few months when those updates are rolling in, some of those folks could be back to buy it again.
  • Reply 152 of 167
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post


    That petition is worded terribly. It just sounds impertinent.



    A recent American political cliche says it pretty well: Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.



    I felt that the general sentiment was more important than the specifics of the complaint. FCPX now has many thousands of signatures and Apple is clearly paying attention and reacting.



    To date, only 21 have signed the iWeb petition. Video editors are a tight group and have many active forums from which to spread the word. iWeb/MobileMe Gallery users are a diffuse lot with only general Apple forums to use to find each other. We've got to start somewhere. If everyone who signs this "impertinent" petition posts its link in as many places as possible we may have a chance to save it yet.



    iWeb/MobileMe Gallery users, don't take this laying down. Get LOUD.
  • Reply 153 of 167
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post


    It seems to me that Apple has not made a mistake, but taken a conscious business decision. They see that the market for prosumer product is much greater than that for high end pros. There are already good options for them such as Avid. Instead of putting resources into a product for a relatively few elite users, they'd rather create the best product for all the rest.



    It sucks for the pros. I feel your pain (sincerely).



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bruceedits View Post


    You lump Avid as a pro-sumer option? Or, did I read that wrong? I have cut tons of award-winning commercials on my Avid systems that no pro-sumer could afford at $75,000 per seat. Avid Media Composer IS professional grade, not pro-sumer. Like Apple, Avid had to bring out a low-end version for marketing reasons, but other than mucking up the landscape, it was not pro-grade. FCP v7 was as close to Avid as it comes. Avid is still a faster system for basic editing which is 90% of what I do. All the bells and whistles, the "Jack-of-all-Trades" add-ons only slow everything down in a professional studio setting. While all the graphics and color grading software is nice, I tend to divide that work among experts in their field, i.e., a audio engineer to mix, a colorist to do grading and a Flame artist or After Effects specialist for graphics and special effects.



    Sorry, bad grammatical construction. You read it wrong because I wrote it wrong. I was citing Avid as an example of high end pro.
  • Reply 154 of 167
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    The FCPX haters are holding it wrong.

    [sarcasm... in case anyone didn't get it]



    Indeed. "Just don't edit it that way." -SJ
  • Reply 155 of 167
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    I find it interesting that Apple decided to sell this exclusively in the App Store. A botched release would be highly and instantly visible to anyone, and without censoring comments or playing games with the ratings, Apple would not be able to PR their way out of it. In other words, transparency and visibility means that the public knows very quickly that this product is not universally well regarded. Without the App Store and its rating system, the feedback and failure of FCPX would have played out in the blogosphere, and it would have taken weeks for the public to sense dissatisfaction from video professionals, who are normally more of a niche market anyway.



    I actually think it is good that Apple has moved most products to the App Store. It eliminates a lot of hassle of stamping discs and distributing it through retail channels and particularly reseller channels around the world. This way anyone can get access without waiting for it to be shipped, in stock, etc.



    Of course the disadvantage is you need the bandwidth, etc.



    Volume licensing is of course another important consideration that seems to be addressed properly in Lion but surprisingly not yet for FCPX of all things (AFAIK).



    I think Apple is bold in that it is not too worried about micro-managing the rollout of big products, now that everything will be launched through the App Store. Lion will be another quite transparent launch. I think that's good.



    The point is feedback only makes any product or company better, if the company knows how to incorporate the feedback into its vision. At the end of the day Apple now has to choose what feedback ties in most with its vision of Final Cut, and what that vision actually is.
  • Reply 156 of 167
    samwellsamwell Posts: 78member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    No idea about Kona, sorry. What plug-ins I do have run fine, however.



    If you have "no idea" about Kona, then you have no idea what you're talking about regarding FCP.



    And yes, FPC X "runs" on Lion. But it won't install on Lion.



    Quit repeating "there's still FCP 7" like a retarded child. If Apple doesn't announce that it will continue to support it, it's dead.



    Oh look, here's something from one of the Shake development team regarding Apple's position towards pro users:



    http://digitalcomposting.wordpress.c...6/28/x-vs-pro/



    Anyone looking for intelligent discussion of this issue should be somewhere like creativecow.
  • Reply 157 of 167
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samwell View Post


    If you have "no idea" about Kona, then you have no idea what you're talking about regarding FCP.



    'Kay. Sure.



    Quote:

    And yes, FPC X "runs" on Lion. But it won't install on Lion.



    I suppose I'm just not running Lion, then.







    Quote:

    Quit repeating "there's still FCP 7" like a retarded child. If Apple doesn't announce that it will continue to support it, it's dead.



    Huh. Look at that. There's also a page for the XServe. Probably because it's still being supported.
  • Reply 158 of 167
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,746member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Except that to call it an upgrade to FCP, one would assume that it should open and convert files saved in the most recent version of FCP prior to the new version, which it doesn't do. It does, however, open and convert older iMovie projects, so in functionality, it is closer to an upgrade to iMovie than to FCP.



    That is ridiculous. It's a new, rewritten application. It's like calling OS X an "upgrade to OS 9." That said, I don't disagree that it should open older versions of FCP files.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    You're not keeping up. FCPX is missing key features that make it unusable for many pros.



    It may gain these features back as updates get rolled out. That seems to be Apple's plan.



    There is subtle but real difference between consumer apps and pro apps. If a consumer app is missing a certain 'feature' but is desirable in other respects then it may be successful and well received. But for 'pro' apps expectations are different. It can do the job or it can't. Its a tool that you can use to complete a task....or it isn't. Having other desirable qualities won't make up for missing key features. FCPX has this problem. I'm not going to rehash all the missing features, they're better addressed in other posts. Check them out in the other FCPX threads.



    Oh, stop. You don't care to list those features because it looks better to post "missing many features" than it does to post "missing a few features, some of which are important." And keep in mind, I'm not saying it's feature complete. I'm saying a it's a pro app. It's not even close to iMovie, the new version of which is so dumbed down that it doesn't fit what even a moderately advanced user needs.



    Here is the link to the Pogue article. Here are the the truly "missing" features that actually affect the editing process. I've omitted the ones that are just differences in the way the program does things



    *Multicamera editing (though there is a workaround, and Apple states it's working on it)



    *Can't assign audio tracks (there is a workaround, though it looks cumbersome)



    *No support for RED or some other raw formats (workarounds possible, but some question as to whether they are adequate. Need here is questionable).



    *No tape output.



    *No EDL, AAF or OMF file support



    *Can't import old FCP files (whether this is a missing "feature" is debatable, but I see the problem).





    Again, I'm not claiming these are insignificant. But it's still a pro app...that is my point. And just to be clear, I've also read some more detailed (and I would say, hyperbolic) analyses from at least one actual "pro." Take this guy for example. He's pissed.
  • Reply 159 of 167
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post




    *Multicamera editing (though there is a workaround, and Apple states it's working on it)



    *Can't assign audio tracks (there is a workaround, though it looks cumbersome)



    *No support for RED or some other raw formats (workarounds possible, but some question as to whether they are adequate. Need here is questionable).



    *No tape output.



    *No EDL, AAF or OMF file support



    *Can't import old FCP files (whether this is a missing "feature" is debatable, but I see the problem).

    .



    Other than that what did you think of the play Mrs. Lincoln?



    Its only a flesh wound.
  • Reply 160 of 167
    Reminds me of the dumbing down of Quicktime, the dumbing down of iMovie etc. etc.



    But hey, look at that shiny phone that you can play Angry Birds on. What's the problem?
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