I think that's a very myopic view people take. This might be true in the US, but outside of the US the situation is completely different.
In India the white MacBook costs $1356 and the MBP 13" costs $1556. At those prices, the white MacBook is a very attractive choice considering that hardware/component wise they are almost the same minus some extra features like better casing, backlit keyboard etc. (assuming we're comparing same generation MB and MBPs).
I think the white MacBook is here to stay. I also read somewhere (sorry no citation) that the white MacBook is the highest selling mac. (I own the current model, and even prefer this design to the aluminium one). The educational discount is now only 6% here - I was lucky to get mine when it was still 12% - and it still cost me $1191. Basically I paid more for the white MB under edu discount than a person in the US would pay for the aluminum MBP. If the white MacBook is discontinued, the cheapest Apple laptop you could buy would cost $1500+ in the Indian market, and possibly a whole lot of non-Western-non-affluent markets would simply not be able to afford a mac.
A major market for Apple is not India, sorry to say. In their major markets, MBPs do very well with college students.
I'm talking college here, school buyers are a whole nother thing.
I think budget does matter, almost every student who I ever knew who owned a PC laptop gave price as the reason. There were a few exceptions who were hard core Windows geeks, but in every other case it came down to cash.
Let's put this into perspective, the MacBook is the 9th best selling notebook on Amazon. That's hardly a product that needs putting out of its misery.
If Apple thinks they have a better solution, they will do whatever they think is best. We certainly won't all agree with it.
I think there is a very good chance that the new MacBook (if there will be one) and at least the new 13" and probably also the 11" MacBook Air will have 4GB RAM as the new minimum. Apple have already transitioned all of the other Macs except the Mini to 4GB minimum.
Yes, I would agree with that. But I was talking about more fundamental changes. Changes in the case, display, ports, etc., that would make a different model.
How does this work, to get a just finished OS on the hardware? Can apple build up an inventory of macbooks and airs and then flash them with the new OS? Wouldn't they have to keep them unboxed to do that?
I just don't understand, if Mac OS X is going to be finished soon, how do they have time to produce enough macbooks and airs for a refresh between the time of finishing Lion and the date mentioned here, assuming Lion isn't GM yet?
I personally don't like the look of the white Macbook, I never did, and I would be glad to see Apple finally drop it completely. Go buy a Macbook Air instead. If somebody needs more power or features, then go buy a Macbook Pro. Some people can even get by with just an iPad.
All things must come to an end eventually, and the white Macbook should be retired.
I still think,, along with some others, that the Macbook will be discontinued at some point. Possibly that time is now.
The low end MacBook Pro is just a couple of hundred bucks more. So people who need those features can migrate up to that. The rest may be happier with an Air.
How does this work, to get a just finished OS on the hardware? Can apple build up an inventory of macbooks and airs and then flash them with the new OS? Wouldn't they have to keep them unboxed to do that?
I just don't understand, if Mac OS X is going to be finished soon, how do they have time to produce enough macbooks and airs for a refresh between the time of finishing Lion and the date mentioned here, assuming Lion isn't GM yet?
They do it wirelessly en masse when they are in the boxes. (kidding)
I personally don't like the look of the white Macbook, I never did, and I would be glad to see Apple finally drop it completely. Go buy a Macbook Air instead. If somebody needs more power or features, then go buy a Macbook Pro. Some people can even get by with just an iPad.
All things must come to an end eventually, and the white Macbook should be retired.
I agree. It seems that this year might be the time to let this ugly old thing go, regardless of sales.
The only real question is will the new MacBook Airs be called "MacBook Airs" or "MacBooks"?
I agree. It seems that this year might be the time to let this ugly old thing go, regardless of sales.
The only real question is will the new MacBook Airs be called "MacBook Airs" or "MacBooks"?
I was just thinking along the same lines, if it is EOL the MacBook monica would then be available for something, if not the MBA then what? It's a pretty good name to go to waste.
I think Apple's economies of scale are large enough that a slightly more diverse product line makes economic sense compared to five years ago as a result of much higher overall Mac sales. Therefore, I would be a bit surprised if Apple were to discontinue the white plastic MacBook. It just had a fundamental case redesign in October 2009.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Yes, I would agree with that. But I was talking about more fundamental changes. Changes in the case, display, ports, etc., that would make a different model.
Fair enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tru_canuk
Are you sure you mean the MB Air and not the white Macbook?
You're right. Thanks. Good catch. I've edited the previous post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple?
Can apple build up an inventory of macbooks and airs and then flash them with the new OS? Wouldn't they have to keep them unboxed to do that?
Yes and yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple?
I just don't understand, if Mac OS X is going to be finished soon, how do they have time to produce enough macbooks and airs for a refresh between the time of finishing Lion and the date mentioned here, assuming Lion isn't GM yet?
Apple always have to spend some time producing new products and building up some inventory before they start shipping. Of course, it would be more convenient to stock them up in the retail boxes, but I'm sure the factories can deal with automated stacking of un-boxed products waiting to have the OS installed onto special pallets.
Call me when there's an iOS development environment that runs on iOS. Until then the iPad will remain a device rather than a true computer.
We've had this discussion about 1000 times But I get your point about development.
But I tell you what, I created some amazing music (well I thought so lol) on a new iPad 2 with Garage Band when I was stuck in a condo in White Mountains during a rainy week last month. Sucked it into my MBP and Garage Band on the Mac then into Logic Pro when I got home and took it from there. I was amazed. It sure seemed like a computer to me given I could do more than I could in Digital Performer and a Quadra 840 av a decade ago and that was a computer wasn't it?
I would be very surprised if most engineering students are using MBs instead of MBPs.
Indeed, in all photos takes in college students in various classes we've seen over the years, the preponderance is for MBPs, no matter what the coursework is, science, engineering, art, or journalism. MBs seem a distant second.
A few years ago I was at a top british research university wasting time that should have been spent doing a PhD in Theoretical Physics. Between the 10 or so grad students at that time there was only one of us (me) with an MBP. There were 2 macbooks, 3 dells and an underpowered sony monstrosity. Oh and an old thinkpad running Linux. Several people didn't even have a notebook at all.
My key point is that the MacBook is a strong seller. There's no need for it not to remain a strong seller if it's well priced. There's no reason for it not to be keenly priced since it doesn't cannibalize MBP or MBA sales. Why should Apple stop serving that part of the market if it can serve it profitably?
We've had this discussion about 1000 times But I get your point about development.
But I tell you what, I created some amazing music (well I thought so lol) on a new iPad 2 with Garage Band when I was stuck in a condo in White Mountains during a rainy week last month. Sucked it into my MBP and Garage Band on the Mac then into Logic Pro when I got home and took it from there. I was amazed. It sure seemed like a computer to me given I could do more than I could in Digital Performer and a Quadra 840 av a decade ago and that was a computer wasn't it?
(Quadra 840 av jokes here).
The iPad is a potentially amazing tool for creating musical content, but then so are guitars and pianos and nobody calls them computers Just because something is a device doesn't mean it's not powerful, or flexible, or useful for both creation and consumption. I'm not using the word as a perjorative.
I would go so far as to say that the reason that the iPad has succeeded where previous tablets failed is because it is a really good device and not a really bad computer.
A few years ago I was at a top british research university wasting time that should have been spent doing a PhD in Theoretical Physics. Between the 10 or so grad students at that time there was only one of us (me) with an MBP. There were 2 macbooks, 3 dells and an underpowered sony monstrosity. Oh and an old thinkpad running Linux. Several people didn't even have a notebook at all.
When I went to university there was one guy that actually had a scientific calculator, 3 of us had slide rules and 4 people had nothing at all.
Sorry... I just thought I'd throw that in there...
Comments
I think that's a very myopic view people take. This might be true in the US, but outside of the US the situation is completely different.
In India the white MacBook costs $1356 and the MBP 13" costs $1556. At those prices, the white MacBook is a very attractive choice considering that hardware/component wise they are almost the same minus some extra features like better casing, backlit keyboard etc. (assuming we're comparing same generation MB and MBPs).
I think the white MacBook is here to stay. I also read somewhere (sorry no citation) that the white MacBook is the highest selling mac. (I own the current model, and even prefer this design to the aluminium one). The educational discount is now only 6% here - I was lucky to get mine when it was still 12% - and it still cost me $1191. Basically I paid more for the white MB under edu discount than a person in the US would pay for the aluminum MBP. If the white MacBook is discontinued, the cheapest Apple laptop you could buy would cost $1500+ in the Indian market, and possibly a whole lot of non-Western-non-affluent markets would simply not be able to afford a mac.
A major market for Apple is not India, sorry to say. In their major markets, MBPs do very well with college students.
I'm talking college here, school buyers are a whole nother thing.
I think budget does matter, almost every student who I ever knew who owned a PC laptop gave price as the reason. There were a few exceptions who were hard core Windows geeks, but in every other case it came down to cash.
Let's put this into perspective, the MacBook is the 9th best selling notebook on Amazon. That's hardly a product that needs putting out of its misery.
If Apple thinks they have a better solution, they will do whatever they think is best. We certainly won't all agree with it.
I think there is a very good chance that the new MacBook (if there will be one) and at least the new 13" and probably also the 11" MacBook Air will have 4GB RAM as the new minimum. Apple have already transitioned all of the other Macs except the Mini to 4GB minimum.
Yes, I would agree with that. But I was talking about more fundamental changes. Changes in the case, display, ports, etc., that would make a different model.
I can imagine a new MacBook Air with:
Sandy Bridge (obvious)
only the built-in graphics (to keep the price down and increase battery life)
the current poor 1280x800 rather than 1440x900 (because of the limited graphics power and to keep the price down)
Thunderbolt (because Apple need to increase the installed base)
4GB RAM (up from the current 2GB)
320GB HD (up from the current 250GB)
no internal Optical Brick (to reduce weight, promote iTunes, and keep the price down)
$899
Are you sure you mean the MB Air and not the white Macbook?
I just don't understand, if Mac OS X is going to be finished soon, how do they have time to produce enough macbooks and airs for a refresh between the time of finishing Lion and the date mentioned here, assuming Lion isn't GM yet?
All things must come to an end eventually, and the white Macbook should be retired.
I still think,, along with some others, that the Macbook will be discontinued at some point. Possibly that time is now.
The low end MacBook Pro is just a couple of hundred bucks more. So people who need those features can migrate up to that. The rest may be happier with an Air.
Agreed.
How does this work, to get a just finished OS on the hardware? Can apple build up an inventory of macbooks and airs and then flash them with the new OS? Wouldn't they have to keep them unboxed to do that?
I just don't understand, if Mac OS X is going to be finished soon, how do they have time to produce enough macbooks and airs for a refresh between the time of finishing Lion and the date mentioned here, assuming Lion isn't GM yet?
They do it wirelessly en masse when they are in the boxes. (kidding)
I personally don't like the look of the white Macbook, I never did, and I would be glad to see Apple finally drop it completely. Go buy a Macbook Air instead. If somebody needs more power or features, then go buy a Macbook Pro. Some people can even get by with just an iPad.
All things must come to an end eventually, and the white Macbook should be retired.
I agree. It seems that this year might be the time to let this ugly old thing go, regardless of sales.
The only real question is will the new MacBook Airs be called "MacBook Airs" or "MacBooks"?
I remember when laptops were useless for any serious computing. Now, some people think the same thing is true for the iPad, but you're wrong.
Call me when there's an iOS development environment that runs on iOS. Until then the iPad will remain a device rather than a true computer.
I agree. It seems that this year might be the time to let this ugly old thing go, regardless of sales.
The only real question is will the new MacBook Airs be called "MacBook Airs" or "MacBooks"?
I was just thinking along the same lines, if it is EOL the MacBook monica would then be available for something, if not the MBA then what? It's a pretty good name to go to waste.
if they do that, then it IS an MBP, and the MB has gone away.
No way! If the label the product MacBook without the pro moniker then it's a MacBook. You can't argue that. There is no leeway to say otherwise.
Yes, I would agree with that. But I was talking about more fundamental changes. Changes in the case, display, ports, etc., that would make a different model.
Fair enough.
Are you sure you mean the MB Air and not the white Macbook?
You're right. Thanks. Good catch. I've edited the previous post.
Can apple build up an inventory of macbooks and airs and then flash them with the new OS? Wouldn't they have to keep them unboxed to do that?
Yes and yes.
I just don't understand, if Mac OS X is going to be finished soon, how do they have time to produce enough macbooks and airs for a refresh between the time of finishing Lion and the date mentioned here, assuming Lion isn't GM yet?
Apple always have to spend some time producing new products and building up some inventory before they start shipping. Of course, it would be more convenient to stock them up in the retail boxes, but I'm sure the factories can deal with automated stacking of un-boxed products waiting to have the OS installed onto special pallets.
Call me when there's an iOS development environment that runs on iOS. Until then the iPad will remain a device rather than a true computer.
We've had this discussion about 1000 times
But I tell you what, I created some amazing music (well I thought so lol) on a new iPad 2 with Garage Band when I was stuck in a condo in White Mountains during a rainy week last month. Sucked it into my MBP and Garage Band on the Mac then into Logic Pro when I got home and took it from there. I was amazed. It sure seemed like a computer to me given I could do more than I could in Digital Performer and a Quadra 840 av a decade ago and that was a computer wasn't it?
(Quadra 840 av jokes here).
I would be very surprised if most engineering students are using MBs instead of MBPs.
Indeed, in all photos takes in college students in various classes we've seen over the years, the preponderance is for MBPs, no matter what the coursework is, science, engineering, art, or journalism. MBs seem a distant second.
A few years ago I was at a top british research university wasting time that should have been spent doing a PhD in Theoretical Physics. Between the 10 or so grad students at that time there was only one of us (me) with an MBP. There were 2 macbooks, 3 dells and an underpowered sony monstrosity. Oh and an old thinkpad running Linux. Several people didn't even have a notebook at all.
My key point is that the MacBook is a strong seller. There's no need for it not to remain a strong seller if it's well priced. There's no reason for it not to be keenly priced since it doesn't cannibalize MBP or MBA sales. Why should Apple stop serving that part of the market if it can serve it profitably?
We've had this discussion about 1000 times
But I tell you what, I created some amazing music (well I thought so lol) on a new iPad 2 with Garage Band when I was stuck in a condo in White Mountains during a rainy week last month. Sucked it into my MBP and Garage Band on the Mac then into Logic Pro when I got home and took it from there. I was amazed. It sure seemed like a computer to me given I could do more than I could in Digital Performer and a Quadra 840 av a decade ago and that was a computer wasn't it?
(Quadra 840 av jokes here).
The iPad is a potentially amazing tool for creating musical content, but then so are guitars and pianos and nobody calls them computers
I would go so far as to say that the reason that the iPad has succeeded where previous tablets failed is because it is a really good device and not a really bad computer.
A few years ago I was at a top british research university wasting time that should have been spent doing a PhD in Theoretical Physics. Between the 10 or so grad students at that time there was only one of us (me) with an MBP. There were 2 macbooks, 3 dells and an underpowered sony monstrosity. Oh and an old thinkpad running Linux. Several people didn't even have a notebook at all.
When I went to university there was one guy that actually had a scientific calculator, 3 of us had slide rules and 4 people had nothing at all.
Sorry... I just thought I'd throw that in there...
When I went to university there was one guy that actually had a scientific calculator, 3 of us had slide rules and 4 people had nothing at all.
Sorry... I just thought I'd throw that in there...
Slide rules are pro.