Apple has lost every bit of their integrity. They are going to find that their childish lawsuits are going to hurt them in the end when government rewrites patent laws loosening their scope rendering many of Apples patents void. Hell, Apple has done such a great job with their patents, the patent office will probably us them as the new standard.
I used 2 different HTC smart phones before moving to an iPhone 2G.
Prior to the invention of the iPhone, HTC's offerings were complete garbage.
Estimated at close to $12 for every iPhone sold. But with the high margins that Apple aims for, it's not likely a terribly significant cost.
This link from last year: http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/08/app...hones-to-date/ would mean it is actually less than that. Probably around $10 per phone. That is twice the rumored $5 per phone that Microsoft gets from HTC per Android device sold but less than the $15 per device Microsoft wants from Samsung.
Why are people surprised that Apple, after having been nearly driven out of business by, among other things, the appropriation of their first move status by MS, has decided that they will fight tooth and nail to keep others from simply stealing the interfaces and designs that have revolutionized the computing world.
Apple has grown very large and sharp teeth since Steve's return. They're showing that they mean to use them.
I'm not a lawyer so I can't say whether the iPhone and iPad are wholly unique or not but they certainly combined technologies in a new way to change mobile phones and tablets in a pretty substantial way. It would be hard not to argue the two products define their categories. But if I had designed iOS, I'd be pretty upset looking at a mobile phone store today, full of knock offs of my vision. I don't know if Apple can sue, but they certainly can argue for trade dress, such as with the Samsung products. Unlike Android, kudos to webOS and Windows Phone 7 and, to an extent, Blackberry for trying to create their own vision. But multitouch and iOS specific design and gestures certainly seem patentable.
Kinda have to give kudos to Apple on that one. They clearly realized that this patent potentially described a device they wanted to build and bought it. BT probably didn't realize it potentially described a smartphone either.
BT must be absolutely hating itself round about now.
You and all of other vendors for the Android OS (Motorola, Samsung, etc.?) should really own up to the fact that you guys and gals along with Google decided to use Apple's patents without their permission. These were not open-source materials of information; and you should be responsible enough to admit that when we use the patented innovations of others without permission, we're gonna pay them (Apple) a huge royalty. With Apple being awarded the patent for broad multi-touch, they completely have the say if they wish to license it you thieves, or prevent the imports of your products to where the iPhone is sold. Appealing your case to higher courts won't do you much benefit when they see that there was no agreement between you and Apple to use them; and accusing Apple of playing a monopoly won't benefit you either due to the same reason. The party's over!! Grow up, admit your faults, and be thankful if Apple decides to license their patents to you!!
Actually nokia not only wanted apple to pay more for their licensing fees than other handset manufacturers, but also was requiring apple to cross license their iPhone patents as well. The reason the decision was a win for apple is because they didn't have to cross license ANYTHING and paid the standard fee.
Last time I checked no one knew details of their agreement outside of one-time payment and ongoing royalties. Do you have any details?
Last time I checked no one knew details of their agreement outside of one-time payment and ongoing royalties. Do you have any details?
What are you asking? You concede that the monetary damages have been made public which is being discussed. Gatorguy has pointed out that nokia did in fact get SOME cross licensing but Apple has stated that they were not any essential to the OS therefore none they didn't want Nokia to have. what other details in my post are you asking for that you think I asserted?
Responding to the latest legal challenge from Apple, people speaking for handset maker HTC on Tuesday said they are "disappointed" that Apple is suing its competitors "instead of competing fairly in the market."
The comments were made by HTC general counsel Grace Lei in a statement provided to Agence France
HTC last year responded in kind, with a lawsuit that accuses Apple of infringing on five patents. As is standard practice, HTC asked the ITC to ban the import of Apple products into America, including the iPhone, iPad and iPod lineup.
And this crap from a company that has absolutely no original products - everything they do is pure crap and stolen from others. Jeez the gall.
According to the best available information I can find, everything points to Apple rolling over on this one. Sources say Apple will be paying Nokia a bit over $600M to cover licensing fees on every iPhone sold to date, plus ongoing license fees currently estimated at $130M+ per quarter, based on each iPhone sold going forward.
The problem is that best available information in this case is just people going off of previous cases - it's not really based on any special insight into this particularly case. Those numbers are plausible, but may well turn out to be much too low or much too high, really all that we know is that there was a settlement and Apple paid some money, and will pay some more.
We might get some information when we see Apple or Nokia's next quarterly results, but I doubt they will be conclusive.
All we really know about the settlement is what Nokia & Apple announced
Quote:
Elop: "This settlement ... enables us to focus on further licensing opportunities in the mobile communications market."
A spokesman for Apple said: "Apple and Nokia have agreed to drop all of our current lawsuits and enter into a licence covering some of each other's patents, but not the majority of the innovations that make the iPhone unique. We're glad to put this behind us and get back to focusing on our respective businesses."
So how can we parse that? Clearly Nokia is planning on going after other handset makers, which presumably means Android handset makers. There's not really any other way to interpret what Elop said. So why keep the settlement amount secret? Only one reason really - to try to get more out of the Android guys. So it would seem unlikely that Apple had to pay much more than the estimates, because if they did it would be in both Nokia & Apple's interest to make that amount public - as a benchmark for future Android payments.
Before we explore your actual statements, you might be interested in understanding that Apple is an "it" not a "they." So, if you were interested in conveying your ideas properly you might want to write something like, "It is going to discover that it's childish lawsuits are going to hurt it in the end when the government rewrites the patent laws."
With that out there, your first sentence seems to contradict your second. Is the new law going to hurt Apple, or will Apple be used as the new standard thereby helping Apple?
Finally, you do understand that the US government doesn't actually write laws, right? The lobbyists for companies like Apple draft said laws. Then the lobbyists contribute to a politician's campaign fund to get the legislation introduced. Then the lobbyists contribute to more politicians' campaign funds to get the legislation passed. So, with this system in place, I am a bit baffled how the patent laws are going to be changed to Apple's disfavor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2-core
They are going to find that their childish lawsuits are going to hurt them in the end when government rewrites patent laws loosening their scope rendering many of Apples patents void. Hell, Apple has done such a great job with their patents, the patent office will probably us them as the new standard.
According to the best available information I can find, everything points to Apple rolling over on this one. Sources say Apple will be paying Nokia a bit over $600M to cover licensing fees on every iPhone sold to date, plus ongoing license fees currently estimated at $130M+ per quarter, based on each iPhone sold going forward. In addition Nokia received licensing rights from Apple on some number of patents. If all this is true, and there's no sources disputing the claims, I'm honestly surprised. It doesn't look like Apple put up much of a fight in this particular case.
Interesting how you "conveniently" miss out key information to further your iHating propaganda cause.
Nokia did not force Apple to pay. Nokia was required to provide the same license fees to everyone. Apple was prepared to pay the same fee, and everyone would have been happy.
But no! What Nokia tried to do what "force" Apple to pay a higher licensing fee than everyone else (which Nokia can't do) and to also force Apple to grant Nokia the right to Apple's IP. When the lawsuit finally was about to work its way up the courtroom, Nokia wised up and did what it should have done from the beginning.
If you're going to twist the truth, at least do a better job.
It is in fact you who is trying to twist the truth. Like so many times before to so many posters before: Please show the proof that Nokia tried to "force" Apple to pay higher or unfair fees for the F/RAND licenseable patents. The ONLY claim that it happened was Apple's statement which Nokia denied almost immediately. So that part is purely "he said, she said" and speculation!
Comments
Apple has lost every bit of their integrity. They are going to find that their childish lawsuits are going to hurt them in the end when government rewrites patent laws loosening their scope rendering many of Apples patents void. Hell, Apple has done such a great job with their patents, the patent office will probably us them as the new standard.
I used 2 different HTC smart phones before moving to an iPhone 2G.
Prior to the invention of the iPhone, HTC's offerings were complete garbage.
Estimated at close to $12 for every iPhone sold. But with the high margins that Apple aims for, it's not likely a terribly significant cost.
This link from last year: http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/08/app...hones-to-date/ would mean it is actually less than that. Probably around $10 per phone. That is twice the rumored $5 per phone that Microsoft gets from HTC per Android device sold but less than the $15 per device Microsoft wants from Samsung.
Translation:
"We think it's fair to copy all your stuff, but we don't think it's fair you disagree with this."
That is exactly what's going on
HTC == high tech copier
Well said
Apple has grown very large and sharp teeth since Steve's return. They're showing that they mean to use them.
Good for them.
The patent in question:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07...patent_attack/
Welcome to the brave new world...
Kinda have to give kudos to Apple on that one. They clearly realized that this patent potentially described a device they wanted to build and bought it. BT probably didn't realize it potentially described a smartphone either.
BT must be absolutely hating itself round about now.
You and all of other vendors for the Android OS (Motorola, Samsung, etc.?) should really own up to the fact that you guys and gals along with Google decided to use Apple's patents without their permission. These were not open-source materials of information; and you should be responsible enough to admit that when we use the patented innovations of others without permission, we're gonna pay them (Apple) a huge royalty. With Apple being awarded the patent for broad multi-touch, they completely have the say if they wish to license it you thieves, or prevent the imports of your products to where the iPhone is sold. Appealing your case to higher courts won't do you much benefit when they see that there was no agreement between you and Apple to use them; and accusing Apple of playing a monopoly won't benefit you either due to the same reason. The party's over!! Grow up, admit your faults, and be thankful if Apple decides to license their patents to you!!
Actually nokia not only wanted apple to pay more for their licensing fees than other handset manufacturers, but also was requiring apple to cross license their iPhone patents as well. The reason the decision was a win for apple is because they didn't have to cross license ANYTHING and paid the standard fee.
Last time I checked no one knew details of their agreement outside of one-time payment and ongoing royalties. Do you have any details?
There from Taiwan...jeez is it that hard to go to the company website or wiki?
Much easier to be ignorant, it seems...
Last time I checked no one knew details of their agreement outside of one-time payment and ongoing royalties. Do you have any details?
What are you asking? You concede that the monetary damages have been made public which is being discussed. Gatorguy has pointed out that nokia did in fact get SOME cross licensing but Apple has stated that they were not any essential to the OS therefore none they didn't want Nokia to have. what other details in my post are you asking for that you think I asserted?
Responding to the latest legal challenge from Apple, people speaking for handset maker HTC on Tuesday said they are "disappointed" that Apple is suing its competitors "instead of competing fairly in the market."
The comments were made by HTC general counsel Grace Lei in a statement provided to Agence France
HTC last year responded in kind, with a lawsuit that accuses Apple of infringing on five patents. As is standard practice, HTC asked the ITC to ban the import of Apple products into America, including the iPhone, iPad and iPod lineup.
And this crap from a company that has absolutely no original products - everything they do is pure crap and stolen from others. Jeez the gall.
According to the best available information I can find, everything points to Apple rolling over on this one. Sources say Apple will be paying Nokia a bit over $600M to cover licensing fees on every iPhone sold to date, plus ongoing license fees currently estimated at $130M+ per quarter, based on each iPhone sold going forward.
The problem is that best available information in this case is just people going off of previous cases - it's not really based on any special insight into this particularly case. Those numbers are plausible, but may well turn out to be much too low or much too high, really all that we know is that there was a settlement and Apple paid some money, and will pay some more.
We might get some information when we see Apple or Nokia's next quarterly results, but I doubt they will be conclusive.
All we really know about the settlement is what Nokia & Apple announced
Elop: "This settlement ... enables us to focus on further licensing opportunities in the mobile communications market."
A spokesman for Apple said: "Apple and Nokia have agreed to drop all of our current lawsuits and enter into a licence covering some of each other's patents, but not the majority of the innovations that make the iPhone unique. We're glad to put this behind us and get back to focusing on our respective businesses."
So how can we parse that? Clearly Nokia is planning on going after other handset makers, which presumably means Android handset makers. There's not really any other way to interpret what Elop said. So why keep the settlement amount secret? Only one reason really - to try to get more out of the Android guys. So it would seem unlikely that Apple had to pay much more than the estimates, because if they did it would be in both Nokia & Apple's interest to make that amount public - as a benchmark for future Android payments.
With that out there, your first sentence seems to contradict your second. Is the new law going to hurt Apple, or will Apple be used as the new standard thereby helping Apple?
Finally, you do understand that the US government doesn't actually write laws, right? The lobbyists for companies like Apple draft said laws. Then the lobbyists contribute to a politician's campaign fund to get the legislation introduced. Then the lobbyists contribute to more politicians' campaign funds to get the legislation passed. So, with this system in place, I am a bit baffled how the patent laws are going to be changed to Apple's disfavor.
They are going to find that their childish lawsuits are going to hurt them in the end when government rewrites patent laws loosening their scope rendering many of Apples patents void. Hell, Apple has done such a great job with their patents, the patent office will probably us them as the new standard.
According to the best available information I can find, everything points to Apple rolling over on this one. Sources say Apple will be paying Nokia a bit over $600M to cover licensing fees on every iPhone sold to date, plus ongoing license fees currently estimated at $130M+ per quarter, based on each iPhone sold going forward. In addition Nokia received licensing rights from Apple on some number of patents. If all this is true, and there's no sources disputing the claims, I'm honestly surprised. It doesn't look like Apple put up much of a fight in this particular case.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/nokia-...TL+(ZDNet+Betw
Obviously you can read, it really is too bad that you can't also understand the meaning of what you read.
Competing "fairly" means coming up with your own ideas, not using Apple's patented ideas without permission.
Duh.
Interesting how you "conveniently" miss out key information to further your iHating propaganda cause.
Nokia did not force Apple to pay. Nokia was required to provide the same license fees to everyone. Apple was prepared to pay the same fee, and everyone would have been happy.
But no! What Nokia tried to do what "force" Apple to pay a higher licensing fee than everyone else (which Nokia can't do) and to also force Apple to grant Nokia the right to Apple's IP. When the lawsuit finally was about to work its way up the courtroom, Nokia wised up and did what it should have done from the beginning.
If you're going to twist the truth, at least do a better job.
It is in fact you who is trying to twist the truth. Like so many times before to so many posters before: Please show the proof that Nokia tried to "force" Apple to pay higher or unfair fees for the F/RAND licenseable patents. The ONLY claim that it happened was Apple's statement which Nokia denied almost immediately. So that part is purely "he said, she said" and speculation!
Regs, Jarkko