So I have been running every Lion beta tester all the way up to Golden master. I run the Golden master on my MacBook Pro and my Mac Pro and not one problem. It runs great. So waiting till an update comes out may be premature. Apple has done pretty good with their OS Distro's and its stability. The golden master of Lion has been running Aperture, iLife 11, iWork and many other apps just fine. And the Golden master has updates to these apps. I don't think that you have too much to worry about when it comes to buying Lion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson
OK, here's what I'm going to do.
Convince myself that I'm going to wait a few weeks until the .1 update comes out to work out the bugs a few weeks after launch, then about eight hours after I've convinced myself of that, I'll buy it and have no problems like always.
It'll be interesting to see how Apple handle the demand for downloads tomorrow.
Had a look at the Lion features list and I'm struggling to find one that is making me want to upgrade.
What features do you guys think are worth paying to get?
Better ActiveDirectory support by way of ditching Samba. Worth $30 on its own but throw in the redesigned Mail (I love Mail and this version is so much nicer), images being copyable from PDFs (makes converting to ePub so much easier), merge clips in QuickTime, screen region capture in QuickTime, Windows Migration, Full Disk FileVault, Versions, AutoSave, text replacement (although this needs better support for actual English not American English) and you've got a lot of bang for $30.
You fail to see the one benefit of this upgrade... you won't know you've done it. That's the sign of a great OS that while some features have changed and may look slightly different once you use them you get so used to them that you don't even notice them. The OS does what it is supposed to to... let you do stuff and stay out of the way. Windows doesn't follow this. Even the change from Vista to Win7 was fraught with changes that made it harder for you to do things that you used to be able to do so easily. Every version of Windows requires a relearn which means they've failed. Every version of Windows is the equivalent of Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X. Every version of Mac OS X is Mac OS X to Mac OS X with some minor touches to the interface to make things easier.
I just hope Apple's servers can handle the load of many millions downloading the new OS at the same time. This will definitely put their App Store to the test.
The problem with auto-save and versions in Lion is that this is a kludge that doesn't solve the long standing problem of Mac OS X - poor file system reliability. Heck, even NTFS is much better and less fragile than HFS+. Apple should have adopted a modern file system instead of reinventing the bicycle.
I completely agree with those who find these two features in their present form an irritation.
Don't use NTFS much do you? The only filesystem that corrupts more easily than NTFS is FAT. Incidentally both are developed by a certain Redmond company.
so having tons of experience trying to get point releases that are 500-ish mb, and IOS updates about the same size and waiting hours while the file trickles in at like 30kbps because of the all at once initial demand, is it fair to assume that I shouldn't bother trying to do this download till Saturday night?
Also, because of the size of it, can I just take a USB key into the apple store, and transfer teh image from a server there (after paying of course)? I just dont wanna pay $30 and have to wait 6-7 hours for a download bc apples pipes are clogged when I have an apple store, bestbuy, frys and more all within a 10 minute car ride.
I am gonna be downloading like a champ. I already have the app store open and waiting for the download to appear. I am gonna wake up around 9:00 chicago time and jam the refresh button (probably for 3 and a half hours till its 10:30 in cupertino). We'll see how apple handles it.
Not at the moment. At the moment Cook is the CEO which means that Oppenheimer could be the COO. Acting in both cases but I won't be shocked if the 'acting' drops off of either or both and Jobs never officially comes back from his medical leave.
And in another year when folks are asking about succession plans Apple will be like "what are you talking about, Jobs is gone. Cook is the CEO. Has been for ages. Oh and by the way we made the shareholders filthy rich again this quarter."
Wow. I could actually see this happening. Have Jobs in an unofficial "advisory" role until they are able to officially announce Cook as CEO.
That and resume are the two worst features and there is apparently no way to turn them off, very aggravating and annoying for people who like to save their own documents as needed and don"t want every application to launch when turning on the machine, just awful ideas in my opinion.
It's not like quitting applications you don't want to continue running on start up takes all that much effort even if you couldn't turn it off. I guess we'll get to sort through System Preferences to see what behavior is switchable tomorrow. (And so far, most of the angst-producing changes, like scrolling behavior, have been shown to be selectable, why not Resume?)
Wait. You forgot a couple of things:
- Versions. So you can go back to an earlier saved version if you don't like the current one.
- Autosave doesn't overwrite previously-saved states of a document every time it does an automatic save. If you explicitly save a document, that will show up as a version, and when you quit the application, it will also save a version. Until you explicitly do either, the saves are to a temporary file, sort of like Schroedinger's Cat.
It's like some folk are just looking for something to darken their day.
Ok but let me decide if I want a finished document to be re-saved in case I want to test a small design change without over writing it or saving it as a new document.
Rejoice! then.
Hint: Look into Versions' behavior, not to mention cmd-S and quitting the application.
Don't use NTFS much do you? The only filesystem that corrupts more easily than NTFS is FAT. Incidentally both are developed by a certain Redmond company.
I can't say I have EVER had a problem with HFS+.
I have had problems. Three times during my time using SL I have had whole folders disappear: pictures, downloads and movies. I could not get these folders back by fixing permissions or repairing the disk. Nothing obvious caused this ? no bumps or knocks on the drive. One day the folder was there, the next day not. I had to restore them from backups. (Thank God for Time Machine.)
I was really hoping for a replacement of the file system in Lion, but it looks like that may be a longer-term project (assuming it is still a project at all).
Lion is smart. When you plug in a mouse, it displays scroll bars permanently. When you disconnect your mouse, scroll bars revert to their default behavior.
I didn't realize this! I got a Magic Trackpad for two reasons - preparation for the gesture-based awesomeness I've seen in the Lion preview vids and because I hit a deer while riding my motorcycle and shattered the distal radius of my right arm (among a few other things). That rendered my right-handed MS mouse less than useful.
The sentence is correct. It's terrible, but it's correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple15
"The announcement from Apple Chief Operating Officer Peter Oppenheimer confirms an exclusive report from AppleInsider on Monday. Also rumored to launch is a refresh to the thin-and-light MacBook Air notebook, powered by Lion."
Isn't Peter Oppenheimer Apple's CFO? I thought Tim Cook was the COO...
According to Apple's site you're correct but as someone's pointed out, that might have changed temporarily with Steve Jobs' hiatus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by odmac
Can't wait!
Even though I don't have a Mac yet(which I will be getting one when it comes out), Mac OS X 10.7 Lion looks like my favorite operating system, compared to Windows 7 Ultimate.
There are features in Lion that I would love. Those are; the improved multi-touch gestures, "Resume", "Auto Save and Versions" and some cool features that come with a Mac.
So its going to be cool transferring to a Mac with a new OS to learn.
Welcome to 2011 computing the way it should be!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff
I am gonna be downloading like a champ. I already have the app store open and waiting for the download to appear. I am gonna wake up around 9:00 chicago time and jam the refresh button (probably for 3 and a half hours till its 10:30 in cupertino). We'll see how apple handles it.
Not at the moment. At the moment Cook is the CEO which means that Oppenheimer could be the COO. Acting in both cases but I won't be shocked if the 'acting' drops off of either or both and Jobs never officially comes back from his medical leave.
And in another year when folks are asking about succession plans Apple will be like "what are you talking about, Jobs is gone. Cook is the CEO. Has been for ages. Oh and by the way we made the shareholders filthy rich again this quarter."
Listen to the Q3 conference call. Nancy Paxton, senior director of investor relations, introduced Peter Oppenheimer as CFO and Tim Cook as COO. See http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/
Please explain - after paying once for the 'app' we can download it onto as many machines as we like???
From Apple's website description of the App Store:
"You can install apps on every Mac you use and even download them again. This is especially convenient when you buy a new Mac and want to load it with apps you already own."
So, if you have several Macs in the family, you can pay for it once and use it on all your machines. Much better than the old licensing of one computer or buy a family pack if you want several licenses.
-When you open a document from an encrypted image, does the versioning and resume save it publicly on the boot volume? Horrible if so. I resent the possibility of being forced to encrypt a whole volume just to protect myself from the OS's built-in "wheeee, let's duplicate data the user intended to have single secure versions of".
-With all this versioning and resume stuff, how can you know how much space your CURRENT data takes and how much of it is being eaten up by all the versions? At what point does OS X stop so you have X amount of Gigs free left on your drive? What's the process to clear ALL the versions and snapshots?
-One of the things that drives me nuts about Windows is that it makes the boot volume thrash/be accessed constantly. With all this version/resume stuff, I'm worried that my Mac is headed into the same arena of constant disk access. I mean, I'm used to knowing what's using my drive and why. Lion might make me wonder, "wtf is saving a version NOW?!" What if one works on 50MB files like in Photoshop? If it goes nuts creating versions and thrashing my drive, and slowing down what I'm CHOOSING to consciously do, I'm gonna scream.
-I do audio production. What if Lion starts doing a version snapshot while I'm recording multiple simultaneous tracks which is disk intensive? Is Lion the first version of OS X to be anti-audio production for potential performance issues?
-Drive mirroring. Will drive mirroring apps like SuperDuper! now have to take longer because it has to backup the bazillions of little version/resume files/snapshots? What if I just want to make a CURRENT snapshot forgoing all the history bits? If my concern of earlier has a solution, am I know forced to manually clear the history before a cron'd backup schedule kicks in?
Security. Performance. Multitasking and no flippin' mysteries surrounding peripheral and cpu activity. That's the way I like to compute. These are big failure points for Windows which keeps me on Macs. I don't know if Lion won't mess all this up, so I'm clinging to Snow Leopard wondering if we'll have a long-term relationship.
- Versions. So you can go back to an earlier saved version if you don't like the current one.
- Autosave doesn't overwrite previously-saved states of a document every time it does an automatic save. If you explicitly save a document, that will show up as a version, and when you quit the application, it will also save a version. Until you explicitly do either, the saves are to a temporary file, sort of like Schroedinger's Cat.
It's like some folk are just looking for something to darken their day.
Heh-heh. I can "see" the fickle finger of fate pointing in my direction! I know, if the shoe fits and all that...
However, I'm not looking for something to darken my day; I'm merely recounting my own negative experiences with these two features. My complaints aren't going to stop me from buying the retail version in the next couple of days.
Comments
Beyond all of that the number one most important feature is the year less birthdays. As anybody that has to deal with woman can instantly understand.
I was so close to saying the same thing, but didn't want to get (virtually) kicked for it. I don't know which/how many of you are ladies!
OK, here's what I'm going to do.
Convince myself that I'm going to wait a few weeks until the .1 update comes out to work out the bugs a few weeks after launch, then about eight hours after I've convinced myself of that, I'll buy it and have no problems like always.
It'll be interesting to see how Apple handle the demand for downloads tomorrow.
Had a look at the Lion features list and I'm struggling to find one that is making me want to upgrade.
What features do you guys think are worth paying to get?
Better ActiveDirectory support by way of ditching Samba. Worth $30 on its own but throw in the redesigned Mail (I love Mail and this version is so much nicer), images being copyable from PDFs (makes converting to ePub so much easier), merge clips in QuickTime, screen region capture in QuickTime, Windows Migration, Full Disk FileVault, Versions, AutoSave, text replacement (although this needs better support for actual English not American English) and you've got a lot of bang for $30.
You fail to see the one benefit of this upgrade... you won't know you've done it. That's the sign of a great OS that while some features have changed and may look slightly different once you use them you get so used to them that you don't even notice them. The OS does what it is supposed to to... let you do stuff and stay out of the way. Windows doesn't follow this. Even the change from Vista to Win7 was fraught with changes that made it harder for you to do things that you used to be able to do so easily. Every version of Windows requires a relearn which means they've failed. Every version of Windows is the equivalent of Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X. Every version of Mac OS X is Mac OS X to Mac OS X with some minor touches to the interface to make things easier.
Just spend the $30 it'll be worth it.
"Sorry, I cannot come to work today, Lion is out and I need to stay home to deal with it"
later
The problem with auto-save and versions in Lion is that this is a kludge that doesn't solve the long standing problem of Mac OS X - poor file system reliability. Heck, even NTFS is much better and less fragile than HFS+. Apple should have adopted a modern file system instead of reinventing the bicycle.
I completely agree with those who find these two features in their present form an irritation.
Don't use NTFS much do you? The only filesystem that corrupts more easily than NTFS is FAT. Incidentally both are developed by a certain Redmond company.
I can't say I have EVER had a problem with HFS+.
Also, because of the size of it, can I just take a USB key into the apple store, and transfer teh image from a server there (after paying of course)? I just dont wanna pay $30 and have to wait 6-7 hours for a download bc apples pipes are clogged when I have an apple store, bestbuy, frys and more all within a 10 minute car ride.
Not at the moment. At the moment Cook is the CEO which means that Oppenheimer could be the COO. Acting in both cases but I won't be shocked if the 'acting' drops off of either or both and Jobs never officially comes back from his medical leave.
And in another year when folks are asking about succession plans Apple will be like "what are you talking about, Jobs is gone. Cook is the CEO. Has been for ages. Oh and by the way we made the shareholders filthy rich again this quarter."
Wow. I could actually see this happening. Have Jobs in an unofficial "advisory" role until they are able to officially announce Cook as CEO.
That and resume are the two worst features and there is apparently no way to turn them off, very aggravating and annoying for people who like to save their own documents as needed and don"t want every application to launch when turning on the machine, just awful ideas in my opinion.
It's not like quitting applications you don't want to continue running on start up takes all that much effort even if you couldn't turn it off. I guess we'll get to sort through System Preferences to see what behavior is switchable tomorrow. (And so far, most of the angst-producing changes, like scrolling behavior, have been shown to be selectable, why not Resume?)
Wait. You forgot a couple of things:
- Versions. So you can go back to an earlier saved version if you don't like the current one.
- Autosave doesn't overwrite previously-saved states of a document every time it does an automatic save. If you explicitly save a document, that will show up as a version, and when you quit the application, it will also save a version. Until you explicitly do either, the saves are to a temporary file, sort of like Schroedinger's Cat.
It's like some folk are just looking for something to darken their day.
Ok but let me decide if I want a finished document to be re-saved in case I want to test a small design change without over writing it or saving it as a new document.
Rejoice! then.
Hint: Look into Versions' behavior, not to mention cmd-S and quitting the application.
Don't use NTFS much do you? The only filesystem that corrupts more easily than NTFS is FAT. Incidentally both are developed by a certain Redmond company.
I can't say I have EVER had a problem with HFS+.
I have had problems. Three times during my time using SL I have had whole folders disappear: pictures, downloads and movies. I could not get these folders back by fixing permissions or repairing the disk. Nothing obvious caused this ? no bumps or knocks on the drive. One day the folder was there, the next day not. I had to restore them from backups. (Thank God for Time Machine.)
I was really hoping for a replacement of the file system in Lion, but it looks like that may be a longer-term project (assuming it is still a project at all).
still no word about doing a clean install?
You've been able to do a clean install from the file sitting on your desktop since DP1, for heaven's sake.
Lion is smart. When you plug in a mouse, it displays scroll bars permanently. When you disconnect your mouse, scroll bars revert to their default behavior.
I didn't realize this! I got a Magic Trackpad for two reasons - preparation for the gesture-based awesomeness I've seen in the Lion preview vids and because I hit a deer while riding my motorcycle and shattered the distal radius of my right arm (among a few other things). That rendered my right-handed MS mouse less than useful.
Remove 2nd Not
The sentence is correct. It's terrible, but it's correct.
"The announcement from Apple Chief Operating Officer Peter Oppenheimer confirms an exclusive report from AppleInsider on Monday. Also rumored to launch is a refresh to the thin-and-light MacBook Air notebook, powered by Lion."
Isn't Peter Oppenheimer Apple's CFO? I thought Tim Cook was the COO...
According to Apple's site you're correct but as someone's pointed out, that might have changed temporarily with Steve Jobs' hiatus.
Can't wait!
Even though I don't have a Mac yet(which I will be getting one when it comes out), Mac OS X 10.7 Lion looks like my favorite operating system, compared to Windows 7 Ultimate.
There are features in Lion that I would love. Those are; the improved multi-touch gestures, "Resume", "Auto Save and Versions" and some cool features that come with a Mac.
So its going to be cool transferring to a Mac with a new OS to learn.
Welcome to 2011 computing the way it should be!
I am gonna be downloading like a champ. I already have the app store open and waiting for the download to appear. I am gonna wake up around 9:00 chicago time and jam the refresh button (probably for 3 and a half hours till its 10:30 in cupertino). We'll see how apple handles it.
You are a webmaster's nightmare.
Not at the moment. At the moment Cook is the CEO which means that Oppenheimer could be the COO. Acting in both cases but I won't be shocked if the 'acting' drops off of either or both and Jobs never officially comes back from his medical leave.
And in another year when folks are asking about succession plans Apple will be like "what are you talking about, Jobs is gone. Cook is the CEO. Has been for ages. Oh and by the way we made the shareholders filthy rich again this quarter."
Listen to the Q3 conference call. Nancy Paxton, senior director of investor relations, introduced Peter Oppenheimer as CFO and Tim Cook as COO. See http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/
First of all it's only $30 (and that's for the entire family of Macs you may have)!
Please explain - after paying once for the 'app' we can download it onto as many machines as we like???
Please explain - after paying once for the 'app' we can download it onto as many machines as we like???
From Apple's website description of the App Store:
"You can install apps on every Mac you use and even download them again. This is especially convenient when you buy a new Mac and want to load it with apps you already own."
So, if you have several Macs in the family, you can pay for it once and use it on all your machines. Much better than the old licensing of one computer or buy a family pack if you want several licenses.
-When you open a document from an encrypted image, does the versioning and resume save it publicly on the boot volume? Horrible if so. I resent the possibility of being forced to encrypt a whole volume just to protect myself from the OS's built-in "wheeee, let's duplicate data the user intended to have single secure versions of".
-With all this versioning and resume stuff, how can you know how much space your CURRENT data takes and how much of it is being eaten up by all the versions? At what point does OS X stop so you have X amount of Gigs free left on your drive? What's the process to clear ALL the versions and snapshots?
-One of the things that drives me nuts about Windows is that it makes the boot volume thrash/be accessed constantly. With all this version/resume stuff, I'm worried that my Mac is headed into the same arena of constant disk access. I mean, I'm used to knowing what's using my drive and why. Lion might make me wonder, "wtf is saving a version NOW?!" What if one works on 50MB files like in Photoshop? If it goes nuts creating versions and thrashing my drive, and slowing down what I'm CHOOSING to consciously do, I'm gonna scream.
-I do audio production. What if Lion starts doing a version snapshot while I'm recording multiple simultaneous tracks which is disk intensive? Is Lion the first version of OS X to be anti-audio production for potential performance issues?
-Drive mirroring. Will drive mirroring apps like SuperDuper! now have to take longer because it has to backup the bazillions of little version/resume files/snapshots? What if I just want to make a CURRENT snapshot forgoing all the history bits? If my concern of earlier has a solution, am I know forced to manually clear the history before a cron'd backup schedule kicks in?
Security. Performance. Multitasking and no flippin' mysteries surrounding peripheral and cpu activity. That's the way I like to compute. These are big failure points for Windows which keeps me on Macs. I don't know if Lion won't mess all this up, so I'm clinging to Snow Leopard wondering if we'll have a long-term relationship.
Wait. You forgot a couple of things:
- Versions. So you can go back to an earlier saved version if you don't like the current one.
- Autosave doesn't overwrite previously-saved states of a document every time it does an automatic save. If you explicitly save a document, that will show up as a version, and when you quit the application, it will also save a version. Until you explicitly do either, the saves are to a temporary file, sort of like Schroedinger's Cat.
It's like some folk are just looking for something to darken their day.
Heh-heh. I can "see" the fickle finger of fate pointing in my direction! I know, if the shoe fits and all that...
However, I'm not looking for something to darken my day; I'm merely recounting my own negative experiences with these two features. My complaints aren't going to stop me from buying the retail version in the next couple of days.