... Those in the industry -- and, in particular, manufacturers of Android-powered devices -- are closely watching the legal spat between Apple and HTC to see what impact it might have on the business. One analyst believes a victory for Apple over HTC could set a high royalty precedent for Android devices, similar to the $5 per unit that Microsoft collects on the sale of HTC Android hardware. ...
Paying Microsoft and Apple and Oracle for each and every copy of Android would be prohibitively expensive. The HTCs of the world work hard to shave pennies off their hardware costs. To pay $5 to Microsoft, $5 to Apple, and $5 or more to Oracle would force many Android cloners out of the market.
Of course, Oracle may not be willing to settle for money. Java is their intellectual property, and the lawsuit against Google requires all copies of Android to be "impounded and destroyed." There's your "Deep Impact."
This makes sense. Since Apple and HTC both own patents that the other violates, they will likely come to some agreement rather than continue the lawsuits.
HTC: "We'll pay Apple $5.00 for each Android clone we ship."
Apple: "We'll pay you $0.10 for each iPhone we ship. Deal."
I am a strong believer that holders of patents and IP in general are entitled to due compensation in case of clear infringement, or to the right of forcing the infringing party to cease their offense. Having said this, IP is a complex minefield nowadays. Any company entering a crowded field like the mobile industry cannot avoid employing someone else's IP. Sometimes, an equitable licensing arrangement is negotiated up front. Sometimes, this happens after the fact, when the two parties parry first in the courts and subsequently across the negotiating table. Sometimes, both parties turn a blind eye in order to avoid a complicated legal chain reaction.
Apple is not a stranger to infringing other companies' IP rights. Look at their recent history of settlements. Look at their history of usurping other companies' trademarks (iThis, iThat ...), only to negotiate the rights well after the fact.
So, what I don't understand is how Apple fans are able to find the high horse to ridicule other companies for doing the very same thing Apple does, over and over again?
How is it that many of you confuse loving a company's products with defending the company on all fronts, even on fronts where the company itself has admitted to having erred here and there.
Just enjoy your Apple products. No need to kiss Apple's butt at every turn. No need to belittle every competitor of Apple. Don't forget, without competition, Apple would not be what it is today.
FK them! No way Apple! Stick it to them and show them that free isn't so free! Google is the new evil.
Shouldn't Apple be "sticking it to Google" directly instead of attacking other phone manufacturers? Seems rather cheap to attack HTC when they should be suing Google for this patent infringment.
"Hey guys, we've got this really cool operating system that is shit free. No courtroom hassles. People will grow to love it. Just $29.99 each and during the 2 hours of this offer we'll throw in another copy absolutely free along with a set of steak knives!!"
I use both an iPhone 3GS and an Samsung Omnia 7 (Windows Phone). Both are very nice phones...hardware and OS. If you haven't used the Windows Phone OS for an extended period of time you shouldn't be making fun of it.
This makes sense. Since Apple and HTC both own patents that the other violates, they will likely come to some agreement rather than continue the lawsuits.
A reasonable conclusion versus the rabble-raising-hate-mongering that laces most of these posts.
Shouldn't Apple be "sticking it to Google" directly instead of attacking other phone manufacturers? Seems rather cheap to attack HTC when they should be suing Google for this patent infringment.
Even though it seems that that would be the "right thing" to do, unfortunately, Google isn't he one building and shipping the infringing devices: HTC and its ilk are.
Apple has standing to sue the people who are actually shipping the devices.
Apple isn't in the patent licensing business, that's not their model. It seems the only time they have licensed patents is as a part of a cross-licensing deal or to end a suit against them (Nokia). I hope they stick to their guns and stick it to Google by way of their clients such as HTC. It seems like copy cats are using patent lawsuits against Apple solely as leverage to allow them to continue to profit from Apple's innovation.
I would rather see them capitulate to HTC's suit against them. Then refuse to license the Apple patents HTC is accused of infringing. Force them innovate or dump Android. There is no free lunch.
I would rather see them capitulate to HTC's suit against them. Then refuse to license the Apple patents HTC is accused of infringing. Force them innovate or dump Android. There is no free lunch.
I'm a little unclear here, what do you think Apple capitulating to HTC would entail? I'm guessing you think it's a license fee - if so why do you assume HTC would settle for a license fee if Apple won't?
Apple isn't in the patent licensing business, that's not their model. It seems the only time they have licensed patents is as a part of a cross-licensing deal or to end a suit against them (Nokia).
That has been true so far, but I wonder if that is about to change. Apple is beginning to evoke grumbling from regulatory bodies over buying a huge trove of patents. I think regulators would be
more understanding of Apple aggressively protecting (and refusing to license) their own inventions, than they would be of Apple hoarding patents it buys from others. Also these large troves of patents undoubtedly contain a number of patents which are not relevant to Apple products. I hope Apple begins to license a limited number of patents, both to assuage regulator concerns and to create a new source of revenue.
I use both an iPhone 3GS and an Samsung Omnia 7 (Windows Phone). Both are very nice phones...hardware and OS. If you haven't used the Windows Phone OS for an extended period of time you shouldn't be making fun of it.
Shouldn't Apple be "sticking it to Google" directly instead of attacking other phone manufacturers? Seems rather cheap to attack HTC when they should be suing Google for this patent infringment.
The Patents involve interaction with Hardware. Google isn't making the hardware.
That has been true so far, but I wonder if that is about to change. Apple is beginning to evoke grumbling from regulatory bodies over buying a huge trove of patents. I think regulators would be
more understanding of Apple aggressively protecting (and refusing to license) their own inventions, than they would be of Apple hoarding patents it buys from others. Also these large troves of patents undoubtedly contain a number of patents which are not relevant to Apple products. I hope Apple begins to license a limited number of patents, both to assuage regulator concerns and to create a new source of revenue.
"Regulators" notwithstanding, patent holders are under no obligation to license anything. Or they can set confiscatory licensing rates.
A lot of people seem to be assuming that Apple is somehow obliged to go the MS route and charge what is presumed to be a reasonable and customary $5 per handset licensing fee, but that isn't true at all. They could demand $100 if they wanted, although of course they would be likely to get few takers.
I think it's much more likely that Apple will just stand pat and force Android handset makers to work around their patents. This of course will be broadly denounced as a hideous miscarriage of justice and a sign of Apple's Absolute and Dreadful Evil, but once a competitor has been found to be infringing they can demand that the infringing tech be removed or stop sales.
HTC of course knows this, and the fact that they're publicly positioning themselves as willing to make a deal suggests their lawyers have determined that Apple will prevail. I'm not sure they have anything to offer that Apple wants (and I'm pretty sure x money per handset isn't going to do it) but you never know.
A reasonable conclusion versus the rabble-raising-hate-mongering that laces most of these posts.
Well put. It's been a while since I've since much other than what you've described. The first post in this one being 'FK google'? Really?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
The Patents involve interaction with Hardware. Google isn't making the hardware.
If that's the case, if it's not directly relevant to the UX Apple might not have a problem licensing the patents. Apple consistently show that tech specs are basically irrelevant to most people's purchasing decisions. If they can make a quid selling technology which doesn't suppress their advantages, why wouldn't they?
Well put. It's been a while since I've since much other than what you've described. The first post in this one being 'FK google'? Really?
If that's the case, if it's not directly relevant to the UX Apple might not have a problem licensing the patents. Apple consistently show that tech specs are basically irrelevant to most people's purchasing decisions. If they can make a quid selling technology which doesn't suppress their advantages, why wouldn't they?
It's an advantage with the Hardware/Software synergy. They won't license those patents just like they won't make a clone market in the Mac space.
Comments
... Those in the industry -- and, in particular, manufacturers of Android-powered devices -- are closely watching the legal spat between Apple and HTC to see what impact it might have on the business. One analyst believes a victory for Apple over HTC could set a high royalty precedent for Android devices, similar to the $5 per unit that Microsoft collects on the sale of HTC Android hardware. ...
Extinction Level Event. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_level_event
Paying Microsoft and Apple and Oracle for each and every copy of Android would be prohibitively expensive. The HTCs of the world work hard to shave pennies off their hardware costs. To pay $5 to Microsoft, $5 to Apple, and $5 or more to Oracle would force many Android cloners out of the market.
Of course, Oracle may not be willing to settle for money. Java is their intellectual property, and the lawsuit against Google requires all copies of Android to be "impounded and destroyed." There's your "Deep Impact."
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120647/
This makes sense. Since Apple and HTC both own patents that the other violates, they will likely come to some agreement rather than continue the lawsuits.
HTC: "We'll pay Apple $5.00 for each Android clone we ship."
Apple: "We'll pay you $0.10 for each iPhone we ship. Deal."
Apple is not a stranger to infringing other companies' IP rights. Look at their recent history of settlements. Look at their history of usurping other companies' trademarks (iThis, iThat ...), only to negotiate the rights well after the fact.
So, what I don't understand is how Apple fans are able to find the high horse to ridicule other companies for doing the very same thing Apple does, over and over again?
How is it that many of you confuse loving a company's products with defending the company on all fronts, even on fronts where the company itself has admitted to having erred here and there.
Just enjoy your Apple products. No need to kiss Apple's butt at every turn. No need to belittle every competitor of Apple. Don't forget, without competition, Apple would not be what it is today.
Google/HTC/Samsung/Motorola/Huawei/ZTE/Acer should do the same to Apple, Microsoft and Oracle.
FK them! No way Apple! Stick it to them and show them that free isn't so free! Google is the new evil.
Shouldn't Apple be "sticking it to Google" directly instead of attacking other phone manufacturers? Seems rather cheap to attack HTC when they should be suing Google for this patent infringment.
Microsoft says to HTC
"Hey guys, we've got this really cool operating system that is shit free. No courtroom hassles. People will grow to love it. Just $29.99 each and during the 2 hours of this offer we'll throw in another copy absolutely free along with a set of steak knives!!"
I use both an iPhone 3GS and an Samsung Omnia 7 (Windows Phone). Both are very nice phones...hardware and OS. If you haven't used the Windows Phone OS for an extended period of time you shouldn't be making fun of it.
This makes sense. Since Apple and HTC both own patents that the other violates, they will likely come to some agreement rather than continue the lawsuits.
A reasonable conclusion versus the rabble-raising-hate-mongering that laces most of these posts.
Shouldn't Apple be "sticking it to Google" directly instead of attacking other phone manufacturers? Seems rather cheap to attack HTC when they should be suing Google for this patent infringment.
Even though it seems that that would be the "right thing" to do, unfortunately, Google isn't he one building and shipping the infringing devices: HTC and its ilk are.
Apple has standing to sue the people who are actually shipping the devices.
I would rather see them capitulate to HTC's suit against them. Then refuse to license the Apple patents HTC is accused of infringing. Force them innovate or dump Android. There is no free lunch.
These 2nd rate copycats aren't even that good at copying Apple!
[B][COLOR="red"]Android?s Dirty Secret: Shipping Numbers Are Strong But Returns Are 30-40%
vs.
iPhone 4's return rate of 1.7%
Maybe that's also accounting for a major load of Android activations. Many have tried multiple devices, activated them then returned them.
I would rather see them capitulate to HTC's suit against them. Then refuse to license the Apple patents HTC is accused of infringing. Force them innovate or dump Android. There is no free lunch.
I'm a little unclear here, what do you think Apple capitulating to HTC would entail? I'm guessing you think it's a license fee - if so why do you assume HTC would settle for a license fee if Apple won't?
1. Denial: This is preposterous that anyone would accuse us of stealing patents
2. Anger: Apple has some nerve to make these claims
3. Bargaining: We're willing to talk to Apple about this
4. Depression: Sniff
5. Acceptance: Mr. Ballmer, there's a collect call for you, will you accept the charges?
That should really be on a t-shirt.
Apple isn't in the patent licensing business, that's not their model. It seems the only time they have licensed patents is as a part of a cross-licensing deal or to end a suit against them (Nokia).
That has been true so far, but I wonder if that is about to change. Apple is beginning to evoke grumbling from regulatory bodies over buying a huge trove of patents. I think regulators would be
more understanding of Apple aggressively protecting (and refusing to license) their own inventions, than they would be of Apple hoarding patents it buys from others. Also these large troves of patents undoubtedly contain a number of patents which are not relevant to Apple products. I hope Apple begins to license a limited number of patents, both to assuage regulator concerns and to create a new source of revenue.
I use both an iPhone 3GS and an Samsung Omnia 7 (Windows Phone). Both are very nice phones...hardware and OS. If you haven't used the Windows Phone OS for an extended period of time you shouldn't be making fun of it.
Who's making fun of it?
Shouldn't Apple be "sticking it to Google" directly instead of attacking other phone manufacturers? Seems rather cheap to attack HTC when they should be suing Google for this patent infringment.
The Patents involve interaction with Hardware. Google isn't making the hardware.
That has been true so far, but I wonder if that is about to change. Apple is beginning to evoke grumbling from regulatory bodies over buying a huge trove of patents. I think regulators would be
more understanding of Apple aggressively protecting (and refusing to license) their own inventions, than they would be of Apple hoarding patents it buys from others. Also these large troves of patents undoubtedly contain a number of patents which are not relevant to Apple products. I hope Apple begins to license a limited number of patents, both to assuage regulator concerns and to create a new source of revenue.
"Regulators" notwithstanding, patent holders are under no obligation to license anything. Or they can set confiscatory licensing rates.
A lot of people seem to be assuming that Apple is somehow obliged to go the MS route and charge what is presumed to be a reasonable and customary $5 per handset licensing fee, but that isn't true at all. They could demand $100 if they wanted, although of course they would be likely to get few takers.
I think it's much more likely that Apple will just stand pat and force Android handset makers to work around their patents. This of course will be broadly denounced as a hideous miscarriage of justice and a sign of Apple's Absolute and Dreadful Evil, but once a competitor has been found to be infringing they can demand that the infringing tech be removed or stop sales.
HTC of course knows this, and the fact that they're publicly positioning themselves as willing to make a deal suggests their lawyers have determined that Apple will prevail. I'm not sure they have anything to offer that Apple wants (and I'm pretty sure x money per handset isn't going to do it) but you never know.
9
A reasonable conclusion versus the rabble-raising-hate-mongering that laces most of these posts.
Well put. It's been a while since I've since much other than what you've described. The first post in this one being 'FK google'? Really?
The Patents involve interaction with Hardware. Google isn't making the hardware.
If that's the case, if it's not directly relevant to the UX Apple might not have a problem licensing the patents. Apple consistently show that tech specs are basically irrelevant to most people's purchasing decisions. If they can make a quid selling technology which doesn't suppress their advantages, why wouldn't they?
Well put. It's been a while since I've since much other than what you've described. The first post in this one being 'FK google'? Really?
If that's the case, if it's not directly relevant to the UX Apple might not have a problem licensing the patents. Apple consistently show that tech specs are basically irrelevant to most people's purchasing decisions. If they can make a quid selling technology which doesn't suppress their advantages, why wouldn't they?
It's an advantage with the Hardware/Software synergy. They won't license those patents just like they won't make a clone market in the Mac space.