First look: Adobe Edge promises Flash-style animation with HTML5

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  • Reply 61 of 78
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Considering that it's usually written with a variation of 'HTML/CSS/JS" it's well known that no single part of open web standards can compete with the entirety of Flash.



    Flash, Silverlight, and Java are evolutions of years of proprietary application development. They are completely self contained and full featured. You might think of them as luxury SUVs with wood grain dashboards, and automatic everything. Unlike the auto at the turn of the century where you bought a chassis from one company, an engine from another and finally a body from an independent coach builder.



    HTML/CSS/JS and PHP are assembled in a similar method to the old fashion way that luxury autos were built. You assemble the pieces and parts that you want, each being custom tailored to your exact needs. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but just as many people are incapable of building their own car, experts will prefer the custom approach which is why high performance cars today are built in that same manner. Putting a user friendly GUI on a custom process is extremely difficult to do since they are polar opposites in their general philosophic approach to the building of a website.



    This Edge application simply makes it easier for novices to do a terrible job of assembling the bits and pieces that could otherwise be a high performance website in the hands of an experienced hand coder. Instead you end up with the same crap that is a bunch of mismatched animation to doll up an already useless web page.
  • Reply 62 of 78
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John.B View Post


    My only question is why Adobe wasn't out in front of HTML5 tool development from the beginning.



    Human nature; deep investment in existing dominant tech (Flash). Glad to see they're getting moving. I've been waiting for tools like this for a long time.
  • Reply 63 of 78
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,299member
    More and more work is leveraging PHP, Python, Ruby whether it be Drupal 7, Django, Joomla, Ruby on Rails 3, Symfony 2 [all of which have adopted jQuery and other such Javascript Libraries/Frameworks] to do a lot of what you see on the Internet.



    Large scale content managment controlled solutions are leveraging those PHP/Python off the shelf Free Tools and the Artist is focused on the Theme Development for them.



    Adobe is addressing the small site developer, not a dynamically driven solution that will adapt various frameworks and languages to scale as needed.



    The bulk of the money is in Consulting mid-tier to n-tier site production.



    Deeply versed development of these APIs and their accompanying languages are desired by a large portion of the Fortune 1000.



    Backend Enterprise Services development is around 98% Java/EJB. That won't change unless Apple reintroduces a new WOF X [returned to Cocoa] that allows all the benefits of iOS, the Cloud and OS X to be fully extended end-to-end, and that would still require foresight into Apple's tools easily cohabiting with Java/EJB.



    Either way, Adobe's expensive investment into Macromedia is not paying off too well for them.



    These Site Builder Tools will never have a solid foothold into the Web Development circles. Most folks have a tailored IDE or even a Text Editor and when compiled code is needed they sure as hell aren't working with a WYSIWYG Editor solution.



    WebSockets, Drag n' Drop, WebGL, Canvas, etc. require knowledge of TCP/IP, BSD Sockets, UI Development from traditional environments, OpenGL, etc., and no most Artists aren't into such backgrounds.
  • Reply 64 of 78
    mercury99mercury99 Posts: 251member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    Either way, Adobe's expensive investment into Macromedia is not paying off too well for them.



    Well, the main goal of Macromedia acquisition was killing the main competitor and establishing monopoly on comprehensive suite of creative tools. Not a bad deal for 3.4 bil. On the way they picked up popular now Dremweaver, Flash technology, Fireworks, Director, Photographer, Freehand (killed).
  • Reply 65 of 78
    Slightly interesting, in the video they're using MacBook's.



    I think this looks pretty cool for a v1 preview. I'm looking forward to v2 preview, hopefully they will add the use of creating buttons and http links.



    I'm curious - will they eventually add the ability to import video/audio or will that only be possible in the Flash CS6 and able to save that as HTML5?



    Thanks Adobe for listening to your users and the competition. Adapt or get left behind.
  • Reply 66 of 78
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,367member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justbobf View Post


    Yeah, but, do look at those screen shots. The one main difference, and main advantage, as I see it, with Edge over Hype, is that Edge can open an existing web page and read all the tags. Then, you can apply animation to the individual elements on the page. With Hype, you're building pages from scratch, or building sections from scratch and then having to add them to a web page.



    True but both are nice to have.
  • Reply 67 of 78
    strobestrobe Posts: 369member
    So, how do I block this shit?



    Let's be frank here, folks. I kinda like the status quo. I can access nearly all the content I want and avoid what I don't by using Click2Flash and AdBlock. The ONLY 'practical' use I've seen for HTML5 has been ads and ultra-annoying ways of presenting video. We've also seen a bunch of battery-draining demos like pointless embedded 3D graphics. The kool factor is so high here I'm choking.



    Someone convince me this html5 stuff is going to improve my browsing experience. I surf for news/weather, web forums, and do comparison shopping. I turn my Mac on, get my data, and turn it off. I seem to be spending more and more time trying to figure out how to dismiss f-ing in-window pop-ups. It's becoming a nightmare.
  • Reply 68 of 78
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,367member
    Playing with Hype and Edge yesterday I am struck how both are designed as after thoughts to the web page development process for those of us designers reliant on wysiwyg tools rather than hand coding. In Edge you can modify an already created page made in another program and Hype creations can easily be dropped in to a snippet.



    The problem comes with Edge when you update the page in the normal app if it is not from Adobe, (no doubt the final Edge will integrate into a massively complex Adobe multi-application structure to cope with this).



    It would seem to me the best solution for now for those of us not wanting to drink Adobe's cool aid, (although Hype is very limited at present), is the snippet approach since page updates don't break this. Even better would be if the abilities were simply part of the web development applications themselves thus updating pages would not break any additions or potentially mess with the layout.



    BTW, I would like to see the team behind Hype continue iWeb development since Apple are not going to and build Hype right into iWeb (pro). Plus greatly increase the abilities of Hype. A stand alone Hype should coexist as now of course.



    I don't want to use this for making terrible ads or really annoying start up pages like Flash users have done for years (most clicked link on the web has to be "click to skip intro') but rather to be able to use HTML5 where needed for those things that befit such as video delivery (which Hype is very weak at presently BTW). But I admit there are a few times when a web page can greatly benefit from some level of interactivity. Selecting a color and seeing the product change for example is just one, or interactive maps and plans for another are greatly improved using HTML5.



    We are just at the beginning of all this so I do expect wysiwyg web development apps to soon create HTML5 in their own right and the Hype folks must realize they need to be on board ASAP as simple 'ad on' utilities will have a limited life span IMHO since they only exist as nothing else can yet do this.



    Fun times though
  • Reply 69 of 78
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,367member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    More and more work is leveraging PHP, Python, Ruby whether it be Drupal 7, Django, Joomla, Ruby on Rails 3, Symfony 2 [all of which have adopted jQuery and other such Javascript Libraries/Frameworks] to do a lot of what you see on the Internet.



    Large scale content managment controlled solutions are leveraging those PHP/Python off the shelf Free Tools and the Artist is focused on the Theme Development for them.



    Adobe is addressing the small site developer, not a dynamically driven solution that will adapt various frameworks and languages to scale as needed.



    The bulk of the money is in Consulting mid-tier to n-tier site production.



    Deeply versed development of these APIs and their accompanying languages are desired by a large portion of the Fortune 1000.



    Backend Enterprise Services development is around 98% Java/EJB. That won't change unless Apple reintroduces a new WOF X [returned to Cocoa] that allows all the benefits of iOS, the Cloud and OS X to be fully extended end-to-end, and that would still require foresight into Apple's tools easily cohabiting with Java/EJB.



    Either way, Adobe's expensive investment into Macromedia is not paying off too well for them.



    These Site Builder Tools will never have a solid foothold into the Web Development circles. Most folks have a tailored IDE or even a Text Editor and when compiled code is needed they sure as hell aren't working with a WYSIWYG Editor solution.



    WebSockets, Drag n' Drop, WebGL, Canvas, etc. require knowledge of TCP/IP, BSD Sockets, UI Development from traditional environments, OpenGL, etc., and no most Artists aren't into such backgrounds.



    I'm not defending Adobe or arguing on the merits of Macromedia's purchase (although i was sad that happened) but I do feel you are overly denigrating the 'low end' of web development. I recall RIM having a similar lofty attitude towards products aimed at the corporate market and scorning the masses. Just saying
  • Reply 70 of 78
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,367member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by strobe View Post


    So, how do I block this shit?



    Let's be frank here, folks. I kinda like the status quo. I can access nearly all the content I want and avoid what I don't by using Click2Flash and AdBlock. The ONLY 'practical' use I've seen for HTML5 has been ads and ultra-annoying ways of presenting video. We've also seen a bunch of battery-draining demos like pointless embedded 3D graphics. The kool factor is so high here I'm choking.



    Someone convince me this html5 stuff is going to improve my browsing experience. I surf for news/weather, web forums, and do comparison shopping. I turn my Mac on, get my data, and turn it off. I seem to be spending more and more time trying to figure out how to dismiss f-ing in-window pop-ups. It's becoming a nightmare.



    What if I developed a web site for a museum with tons of interactive pages where you could click on an object and see info or a video etc. Done in Flash it would most likely have your MBP frying your knees but in HTML5 it can work without the thermal pain.



    Not all uses of HTML5 need be to sell you car insurance. As to ultra annoying ways of showing video, what about YouTube, set by Click to Flash to be HTML5 only? Isn't that an improvement and a good use of HTML5? It is not all about ads.



    What would be nice (he said ready to be flamed) is if ads had to carry a metatag stating they were an ad, be they HTML5 or Flash, that could be used to opt in or out in any browser. Ads failing to carry this tag would result in a warning, cease and desist then a fine.



    Ok I can dream can't I?
  • Reply 71 of 78
    strobestrobe Posts: 369member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    What if I developed a web site for a museum with tons of interactive pages where you could click on an object and see info or a video etc. Done in Flash it would most likely have your MBP frying your knees but in HTML5 it can work without the thermal pain.



    Uh, why would you have to use Flash or HTML5? Click on an object for a video? We've had the embed tag since 1995.



    BTW HTML5 isn't necessary for click2flash ability. QuickTime would also have worked, using embed tags instead of movie tags.



    Quote:

    Not all uses of HTML5 need be to sell you car insurance. As to ultra annoying ways of showing video, what about YouTube, set by Click to Flash to be HTML5 only? Isn't that an improvement and a good use of HTML5? It is not all about ads.



    The reason YouTube used flash to begin with was because everybody had it, so nobody had to install another plug-in. They could have used QuickTime, but then how do you embed ads if it's just a video stream?



    Quote:

    What would be nice (he said ready to be flamed) is if ads had to carry a metatag stating they were an ad, be they HTML5 or Flash, that could be used to opt in or out in any browser. Ads failing to carry this tag would result in a warning, cease and desist then a fine.



    Ok I can dream can't I?



    Yea, didn't pass the laugh test.



    The question still remains: how do I block this shit?
  • Reply 72 of 78
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    Quote:

    But as Web development continues to grow and change, Adobe officials indicated they intend to stay aggressive in supporting both Flash and HTML5 with new and enhanced tools for programmers.



    I'm ok with this this if they cut Flash down to just the tasks that HTML 5 can't handle. It's fine to have a stop-gap so long as it's treated like one.



    Unencrypted embedded Flash video for example should be removed from Flash entirely and published via the HTML 5 video tag.



    For every feature that HTML 5 has, remove it from the Flash plugin and have the two integrated with Javascript calls.



    This will reduce the Flash plugin to only rich content that browsers are incapable of handling natively.
  • Reply 73 of 78
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by strobe View Post


    So, how do I block this shit?



    Let's be frank here, folks. I kinda like the status quo. I can access nearly all the content I want and avoid what I don't by using Click2Flash and AdBlock. The ONLY 'practical' use I've seen for HTML5 has been ads and ultra-annoying ways of presenting video. We've also seen a bunch of battery-draining demos like pointless embedded 3D graphics. The kool factor is so high here I'm choking.



    Someone convince me this html5 stuff is going to improve my browsing experience. I surf for news/weather, web forums, and do comparison shopping. I turn my Mac on, get my data, and turn it off. I seem to be spending more and more time trying to figure out how to dismiss f-ing in-window pop-ups. It's becoming a nightmare.



    Is that a serious post? You want to know how to block HTML -and- you are unaware of any practical uses for HTML5 other than "ads and ultra-annoying ways of presenting video"? Trying doing a search for HTML5 and reading up on it.
  • Reply 74 of 78
    strobestrobe Posts: 369member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Is that a serious post? You want to know how to block HTML -and- you are unaware of any practical uses for HTML5 other than "ads and ultra-annoying ways of presenting video"? Trying doing a search for HTML5 and reading up on it.



    Is this a serious post? Instead of being condescending you could provide a real example of such a practical use.



    I'm well aware of what HTML5 does and how it is currently deployed, do you? Originally SVG graphics was just a way to render paths because html/sgml was used instead of something more like postscript. The web has evolved into a fucking esoteric tag-infested jargon circus that needs gigahertz machines with gigs of RAM just to 'run' (remember when we used to simply render web pages?).



    Oh, and check out how Flash is currently deployed. It's on this interweb thingy. That's the future of html5 deployment. Annoying, pointless animations. The only reason we aren't currently inundated with this crap is because Adobe has been so slow in adopting it. The tools simply don't exist yet.



    The thing is, it's trivial to block Flash. How do you block html5? You don't think this is a legitimate concern?
  • Reply 75 of 78
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by strobe View Post


    The thing is, it's trivial to block Flash. How do you block html5? You don't think this is a legitimate concern?



    Most of the animations will use the HTML 5 canvas element, some will use Javascript. An extension should be able to run through the DOM and strip out the Canvas elements or load them on request. As always, where there's a will, there's a way.
  • Reply 76 of 78
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by strobe View Post


    The thing is, it's trivial to block Flash. How do you block html5? You don't think this is a legitimate concern?



    Nope. Because you just block certain tags that contain the ads. Just like now.
  • Reply 77 of 78
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    For Adobe, this has been around since at least Adobe CS3. Sniffs out other CS3 installs on the local network.



    In general, have you tried playing recent PC games? Most diabolical. You pretty much have to have a permanent connection with Steam or the horrendous Games For Windows Live.



    It is a trend that I definitely dislike. Because guess what, if you're pirating the damn thing, the first thing you do is disable all this background sniffing and checking. So the background sniffing and checking is hammered upon legitimate users!



    Agreed. I have bought Deus Ex 3, and am waiting to see what happens.

    Regarding Steam, I have relented and stored my password on the Mac, since if I refuse, anytime I take my laptop to a place where I have no Internet (plane, camping site, train trip, car trip, mountain hike...) Steam prevents me from playing games. If my laptop gets stolen, and my account therefore compromised, I swear I'm going after their ass for endangering purposedly my account's safety.
  • Reply 78 of 78
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Nope. Because you just block certain tags that contain the ads. Just like now.



    And you can block calls to *.theAdvertiserThatSucks.com
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