A lathe spins the part around a single axis (used to make parts round on 1 axis at a time. The machine Apple uses to make the unibody parts is a CNC mill. With a milling machine the part can move on the X and Y axis when needed. The mill can have many attachments that cut away material from the part.
He is giving us useful information that is not Mac related. Get him!
If that still fails to convince, please remember that the burden of proof is on the plaintiff: what data can you point to which might substantiate such a silly claim?
not to burst your bubble but that article is just as unsourced as the '30% android returns' article was - and since it was from back last year before the iPhone launched on verizon there's nothing there to substantiate a claim that it still has the lowest return rate from the article.
One unsourced rumour is no more useful than another.
i'm going to assume your comment was not an attempt of trolling so i'm curious to know your reason(s) why, in your view, Intel has a feeling of intense or passionate dislike for Apple.
Personally, I'm happy to see manufacturer's copying Apple's designs. I find their hardware especially to be gorgeous. The aluminum MacBooks are seriously Pavlovian. It's about time the other manufacturer's recognized this and started building machines to match this quality. If for some reason I wanted a Windows laptop, I'd want it to be just as nice as an Apple laptop.
Are you aware of anyone who buys a MBP, formats the disk, and installs a fresh copy ow Windows? Is that even possible?
I'm unaware of any laptops which are nicer looking and feeling than the MBP, and so I assume that some people who need Windows feel the same way. Does anybody use a Mac as a Windows PC without a dual boot or VM solution?
Are all the necessary drivers available for that? Are there any other reasons why it could not be done? Could you use an external drive to boot Windows on a Mac?
It would be kind of like a Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde version of a Hackintosh looking in a mirror while standing on its head.
Add to that the fact that Windows 8 system requirements are going to be less than Windows 7
I'd not heard that. It seems like that is the first time that has ever happened. In the bad old days, a common reason for replacing a computer was that it didn't have the power to run the newest OS. It used to be that upgrading the OS would make an old system run more slowly.
I wonder what was done to make it happen differently this time around? General cleanup/tightening of code? Better ability to sense hardware variations combined with a more flexible architecture? This seems like a breakthrough to me, because I don't recall it ever happening before.
Edit: According to PCWorld, "Another thing we did is build intelligence into Windows 8 to adapt the user interface based on what hardware you have. So whether you're upgrading or buying a new PC, Windows will adapt itself for your hardware,"
And do you believe that's higher or lower than the ASP for Macs?
Tip: pricing at the Mac store currently ranges from $599 to $2,999, with only four products under $1k, and two of those being under by just $1 ($999).
The $850 PC ASP I guessed is most likely to be way lower than the ASP of Macs. 3 out of 4 Macs are laptops sold last quarter which is a good indication that the $999 (and up) pricetag overshadows the Mini, the only Mac under $999. Although the Mini is used large-scale in IT departements, cruise ships, cars etcetera won't make the ASP below $850.
Except that, as you know, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff.
An unnamed source says you eat kittens. Can you prove that you don't?
Huh? Nobody here is the plaintiff. There are rumours swirling about both platforms all the time. I'm not claiming that the first article is true, I think it's a lousy piece of click-bait. But you don't beat lousy journalism by linking a ton of more lousy journalism.
Personally I think the real difference in terms of return rates is between 3G handsets and 4G, not between iOS and Android - but there's no hard data even for that.
Are you aware of anyone who buys a MBP, formats the disk, and installs a fresh copy ow Windows? Is that even possible?
I'm unaware of any laptops which are nicer looking and feeling than the MBP, and so I assume that some people who need Windows feel the same way. Does anybody use a Mac as a Windows PC without a dual boot or VM solution?
Are all the necessary drivers available for that? Are there any other reasons why it could not be done? Could you use an external drive to boot Windows on a Mac?
It would be kind of like a Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde version of a Hackintosh looking in a mirror while standing on its head.
i have one of the last 24" imacs and since i don't use os x anymore i set it up as windows only because the wife and kids don't like os x and it is too good a machine to let rot. so i did a minimal os x install to get boot camp, then gave the rest over to Windows 7. it only boots to win 7 and runs very well as far as windows goes except that you can't get 64bit win drivers for webcam from apple for the older chipset.
if Ubuntu (and linux in general) would ever have some decent power management i would install it on a MBA in favor of os x.
i am hoping ubuntu will work better with the ultrabook than it does with the mba. waiting to see if they ever show up....
A big point missed by Intel and others is that when people buy a mac laptop - they have either an expensive macbook pro or the mac air (or the craptastic soon to be discontinued macbook). The mac air is cheaper and comparable so you are saving money to have a sexier laptop - only pros needing finalcut pro or the screen real-estate are going with the 15" mac pro these days.
In contrast the PC market is mostly about price (a look at how poorly sony has done is case in point) - the PC competition for an ultrabook is a $300-$500 range PC laptop. Only a small segment of PC users are going to want to shell out $1k for sexier (2-3x more!) than the laptop they would normally get/ compare to.
Corporate users are going to get the cheap Dells, only well-healed consumer PC diehards or small well-off businesses are going to be in the ultrabook market.
I predict <20% max PC laptop market-share for PC ultrabooks.
But Intel can't trust Apple not going to ARM, and needs to get X86 in the portable market to keep future relevancy so it has to push this market segment. Intel knows it is in the biggest fight of it's corporate life.
Back to HP and everyone else's tablets, I was in BB (Atlantic Center, Brooklyn NY) today replacing earbuds and couldn't resist checking out their finally set up displays of them, and an HP rep was there. Two big problems: Aside from the HP they were mostly running one of many versions of Android, literally the whole handful of them, with different names and version numbers. No one could explain to customers the difference between the Gingerbread, Froyo or Honeycomb, except which was the latest. That's a huge mess and I saw one woman's eyes glaze over at the convoluted (and probably wrong) explanation. No salesman could say which could be upgraded to the next version, they just grunted that it is what it is, so I just tooled around to see if any had a good response. Most weren't set up to function for a passerby. Found one or two that were but they weren't online. There were maybe 5 different kiosks of tablets with no one showing any interest in them. There was a crowd of fifteen at the Apple table on the iPads. Not because Apple had bamboozled anyone with hype, but because the other options were muddled and confused. They looked like they were guaranteed to be half price or obsolete by Christmas. Maybe not in truth but they gave that look.
And second, the new, higher quality releases are hitting the same price point as Apple, so people would walk up to one, see that it wasn't any cheaper (regardless of the features) and walked over to the Apple table. Apple is winning big by no one clearly saying "You want a $300 iPad alternative? This is it" and instead saying "Here's our version of the iPad, same price".
This Android return rate meme is just as ridiculous as the Glenn Beck meme, and with posters like the one I replied to, who parrot it without ever looking into its origin, it's becoming as pervasive in spite of its self-evident silliness.
The only reason that I don't believe that Glenn Beck meme is that I'm quite sure that he cooks and eats his victims Actually I'm not really sure he cooks them.
As for the android story being preposterous, I don't think I would go that far, though the article that started it is lousy. Lets say there are 100 models of android phone, which seems in the ball park. Some are clearly going to be much better than others, a few could plausibly be total turkeys just thanks to the law of large numbers. Could there be one or two android handsets with really high return rates? I don't think it's hard to believe. But you're right, there's absolutely no evidence for it as yet - and given how reluctant any carrier will be to ever admit that it was pushing a turkey on its consumers, it's likely we'll never find out unless one of the customer satisfaction surveys releases model level data rather than just platform level aggregates. Since that level of granularity would need a far bigger sample, I doubt we'll ever have proof either way.
This website cracks me up. You apple fanboys just love pulling facts out of thin air.
"40% of androids are returned"
"2-3x markup cost after manufacturing cost"
"no ssd or cpu performance"
shouldn't your crapple users love this? healthy competition? you have no professional investment in the company, and it is not your intellectual property EVEN IF other companies are "copying" apple. more competition = better products at lower prices. I swear you people would just love it if only 1 cell carrier existed too
you think apple invented laptops this thin? the first one was a sony made about 5-6 years ago
these ultrabooks will be more cost effective than a MBA. you can find out for yourself when HP / Asus unveils the official MSRP. until then, stop pulling facts out of your asses.
Apple supposedly have tied up a lot of the existing NCM machine capacity used to manufacture their aluminum enclosures. One of the questions all along has been why they have not used a precision molding process which, according to some sources can be used to produce the same product less expensively with only a very small amount of, if any, precision machining. This would appear to be an opportunity for the PC manufacturers to find out.
I don't see Intel as launching an offensive toward Apple, but a defense against ARM.
Sure, but unfortunately that defense comes in the form of trying to basically clone the MacBook Air on behalf of Apple's competition, which comes off as at least dickish.
Remember when Intel was publicly enthusiastic about getting Apple on board, explicitly because they felt Apple brought innovative design chops to the table that might move PC platforms ahead? I don't think anyone assumed they meant "let's see what Apple can do with our silicon, and if it looks successful we'll reverse engineer it and sell it to PC manufactures."
Of course, once Intel gets Asus and HP and Lenovo et al selling Air class machines we can discover that it's actually really really smart to drop the optical drive and go with a sealed battery and use a big trackpad and SSD and backlit keyboard and reduce the number of ports (even, no doubt, Thunderbolt) etc., and the PC crowd can remind us that Apple didn't do anything special with the Air it was all just obvious and inevitable.
On that subject, i dont think that many people are motivated to make the change to OSX from windows. I briefly had a macbook pro a few years ago, and while OSX was pretty good OS, it just didnt have any killer features that would tempt me to make the effort to convert, nor was there anything so bad on the windows side that made me want to consider a different OS.
I think you are applying last generation's arguments to a newer generation (and a new market) sure OS X won't be a dominate OS any time soon but to rule it out completely is naive. MS has held on to their position for so long at the cost of innovation. At some point they will have to cut the cord for legacy support and offer a new core OS that can do work across all their platforms (desktop, mobile, gaming, entertainment, etc..) the NT underpinning of Windows can get them there but everything built on top of that has to go. It's 2012 and we shouldn't have to worry about 32-bit vs 64-bit OS and drivers or figuring out if an app isn't running because it needs administrative privileges or needs to be run in one of dozen or so compatibility modes.
Apple has managed to survive multiple underlying platform transitions with fewer issues than MS has had just keeping their stuff running on intel chips and adding web technologies and photo editing and prettier GUI elements every few years. Part of the reason is the difference in philosophies. MS caters to those that want to live in the past. They make millions of people suffer awkward interfaces and lack of seamless features just so they can squeeze one more sale out of some guy that refuses to update his MS access application with custom OLE hooks that he wrote in 1996.
Apple on the other hand doesn't design their OS for the past, they build it for the future. They draw a line in the sand and say after this your old stuff won't work. They give you a transition time for your vendors to get up to speed with updates but they rarely stop the train for anybody. The only notable exception being holding on to OS 9 for a while longer while Quark got their ass in gear. Apple is also not afraid to remove technologies they see as dead end or limiting, sure techies get in an uproar but my mom has no idea she doesn't have a JVM or rosetta installed on her Macbook now or even why she would need them.
you think apple invented laptops this thin? the first one was a sony made about 5-6 years ago
these ultrabooks will be more cost effective than a MBA. you can find out for yourself when HP / Asus unveils the official MSRP. until then, stop pulling facts out of your asses.
Actually, Toshiba was first with the Libretto in 1996.
Anyway, competition is a good thing, but some people are questioning whether Intel (supposedly one of Apple's partners and biggest customers) is trying to undermine Apple. I don't think so, but it's a legitimate question.
Comments
A lathe spins the part around a single axis (used to make parts round on 1 axis at a time. The machine Apple uses to make the unibody parts is a CNC mill. With a milling machine the part can move on the X and Y axis when needed. The mill can have many attachments that cut away material from the part.
He is giving us useful information that is not Mac related. Get him!
Jk.
Motorola DROID 2 has lowest smartphone return rate on Verizon Wireless?
http://www.bgr.com/2010/09/04/motoro...+Genius+Report
If that still fails to convince, please remember that the burden of proof is on the plaintiff: what data can you point to which might substantiate such a silly claim?
not to burst your bubble but that article is just as unsourced as the '30% android returns' article was - and since it was from back last year before the iPhone launched on verizon there's nothing there to substantiate a claim that it still has the lowest return rate from the article.
One unsourced rumour is no more useful than another.
Why does Intel hate Apple?
i'm going to assume your comment was not an attempt of trolling so i'm curious to know your reason(s) why, in your view, Intel has a feeling of intense or passionate dislike for Apple.
Personally, I'm happy to see manufacturer's copying Apple's designs. I find their hardware especially to be gorgeous. The aluminum MacBooks are seriously Pavlovian. It's about time the other manufacturer's recognized this and started building machines to match this quality. If for some reason I wanted a Windows laptop, I'd want it to be just as nice as an Apple laptop.
Are you aware of anyone who buys a MBP, formats the disk, and installs a fresh copy ow Windows? Is that even possible?
I'm unaware of any laptops which are nicer looking and feeling than the MBP, and so I assume that some people who need Windows feel the same way. Does anybody use a Mac as a Windows PC without a dual boot or VM solution?
Are all the necessary drivers available for that? Are there any other reasons why it could not be done? Could you use an external drive to boot Windows on a Mac?
It would be kind of like a Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde version of a Hackintosh looking in a mirror while standing on its head.
Add to that the fact that Windows 8 system requirements are going to be less than Windows 7
I'd not heard that. It seems like that is the first time that has ever happened. In the bad old days, a common reason for replacing a computer was that it didn't have the power to run the newest OS. It used to be that upgrading the OS would make an old system run more slowly.
I wonder what was done to make it happen differently this time around? General cleanup/tightening of code? Better ability to sense hardware variations combined with a more flexible architecture? This seems like a breakthrough to me, because I don't recall it ever happening before.
Edit: According to PCWorld, "Another thing we did is build intelligence into Windows 8 to adapt the user interface based on what hardware you have. So whether you're upgrading or buying a new PC, Windows will adapt itself for your hardware,"
That's pretty sweet.
And do you believe that's higher or lower than the ASP for Macs?
Tip: pricing at the Mac store currently ranges from $599 to $2,999, with only four products under $1k, and two of those being under by just $1 ($999).
The $850 PC ASP I guessed is most likely to be way lower than the ASP of Macs. 3 out of 4 Macs are laptops sold last quarter which is a good indication that the $999 (and up) pricetag overshadows the Mini, the only Mac under $999. Although the Mini is used large-scale in IT departements, cruise ships, cars etcetera won't make the ASP below $850.
Random pic:
Why does Intel hate Apple?
Refusal to slather "intel inside" stickers all over the MacBooks?
Except that, as you know, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff.
An unnamed source says you eat kittens. Can you prove that you don't?
Huh? Nobody here is the plaintiff. There are rumours swirling about both platforms all the time. I'm not claiming that the first article is true, I think it's a lousy piece of click-bait. But you don't beat lousy journalism by linking a ton of more lousy journalism.
Personally I think the real difference in terms of return rates is between 3G handsets and 4G, not between iOS and Android - but there's no hard data even for that.
Are you aware of anyone who buys a MBP, formats the disk, and installs a fresh copy ow Windows? Is that even possible?
I'm unaware of any laptops which are nicer looking and feeling than the MBP, and so I assume that some people who need Windows feel the same way. Does anybody use a Mac as a Windows PC without a dual boot or VM solution?
Are all the necessary drivers available for that? Are there any other reasons why it could not be done? Could you use an external drive to boot Windows on a Mac?
It would be kind of like a Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde version of a Hackintosh looking in a mirror while standing on its head.
i have one of the last 24" imacs and since i don't use os x anymore i set it up as windows only because the wife and kids don't like os x and it is too good a machine to let rot. so i did a minimal os x install to get boot camp, then gave the rest over to Windows 7. it only boots to win 7 and runs very well as far as windows goes except that you can't get 64bit win drivers for webcam from apple for the older chipset.
if Ubuntu (and linux in general) would ever have some decent power management i would install it on a MBA in favor of os x.
i am hoping ubuntu will work better with the ultrabook than it does with the mba. waiting to see if they ever show up....
In contrast the PC market is mostly about price (a look at how poorly sony has done is case in point) - the PC competition for an ultrabook is a $300-$500 range PC laptop. Only a small segment of PC users are going to want to shell out $1k for sexier (2-3x more!) than the laptop they would normally get/ compare to.
Corporate users are going to get the cheap Dells, only well-healed consumer PC diehards or small well-off businesses are going to be in the ultrabook market.
I predict <20% max PC laptop market-share for PC ultrabooks.
But Intel can't trust Apple not going to ARM, and needs to get X86 in the portable market to keep future relevancy so it has to push this market segment. Intel knows it is in the biggest fight of it's corporate life.
And second, the new, higher quality releases are hitting the same price point as Apple, so people would walk up to one, see that it wasn't any cheaper (regardless of the features) and walked over to the Apple table. Apple is winning big by no one clearly saying "You want a $300 iPad alternative? This is it" and instead saying "Here's our version of the iPad, same price".
Did Glenn Beck rape and murder a young girl in 1990?
This Android return rate meme is just as ridiculous as the Glenn Beck meme, and with posters like the one I replied to, who parrot it without ever looking into its origin, it's becoming as pervasive in spite of its self-evident silliness.
The only reason that I don't believe that Glenn Beck meme is that I'm quite sure that he cooks and eats his victims
As for the android story being preposterous, I don't think I would go that far, though the article that started it is lousy. Lets say there are 100 models of android phone, which seems in the ball park. Some are clearly going to be much better than others, a few could plausibly be total turkeys just thanks to the law of large numbers. Could there be one or two android handsets with really high return rates? I don't think it's hard to believe. But you're right, there's absolutely no evidence for it as yet - and given how reluctant any carrier will be to ever admit that it was pushing a turkey on its consumers, it's likely we'll never find out unless one of the customer satisfaction surveys releases model level data rather than just platform level aggregates. Since that level of granularity would need a far bigger sample, I doubt we'll ever have proof either way.
"40% of androids are returned"
"2-3x markup cost after manufacturing cost"
"no ssd or cpu performance"
shouldn't your crapple users love this? healthy competition? you have no professional investment in the company, and it is not your intellectual property EVEN IF other companies are "copying" apple. more competition = better products at lower prices. I swear you people would just love it if only 1 cell carrier existed too
you think apple invented laptops this thin? the first one was a sony made about 5-6 years ago
these ultrabooks will be more cost effective than a MBA. you can find out for yourself when HP / Asus unveils the official MSRP. until then, stop pulling facts out of your asses.
I don't see Intel as launching an offensive toward Apple, but a defense against ARM.
Sure, but unfortunately that defense comes in the form of trying to basically clone the MacBook Air on behalf of Apple's competition, which comes off as at least dickish.
Remember when Intel was publicly enthusiastic about getting Apple on board, explicitly because they felt Apple brought innovative design chops to the table that might move PC platforms ahead? I don't think anyone assumed they meant "let's see what Apple can do with our silicon, and if it looks successful we'll reverse engineer it and sell it to PC manufactures."
Of course, once Intel gets Asus and HP and Lenovo et al selling Air class machines we can discover that it's actually really really smart to drop the optical drive and go with a sealed battery and use a big trackpad and SSD and backlit keyboard and reduce the number of ports (even, no doubt, Thunderbolt) etc., and the PC crowd can remind us that Apple didn't do anything special with the Air it was all just obvious and inevitable.
On that subject, i dont think that many people are motivated to make the change to OSX from windows. I briefly had a macbook pro a few years ago, and while OSX was pretty good OS, it just didnt have any killer features that would tempt me to make the effort to convert, nor was there anything so bad on the windows side that made me want to consider a different OS.
I think you are applying last generation's arguments to a newer generation (and a new market) sure OS X won't be a dominate OS any time soon but to rule it out completely is naive. MS has held on to their position for so long at the cost of innovation. At some point they will have to cut the cord for legacy support and offer a new core OS that can do work across all their platforms (desktop, mobile, gaming, entertainment, etc..) the NT underpinning of Windows can get them there but everything built on top of that has to go. It's 2012 and we shouldn't have to worry about 32-bit vs 64-bit OS and drivers or figuring out if an app isn't running because it needs administrative privileges or needs to be run in one of dozen or so compatibility modes.
Apple has managed to survive multiple underlying platform transitions with fewer issues than MS has had just keeping their stuff running on intel chips and adding web technologies and photo editing and prettier GUI elements every few years. Part of the reason is the difference in philosophies. MS caters to those that want to live in the past. They make millions of people suffer awkward interfaces and lack of seamless features just so they can squeeze one more sale out of some guy that refuses to update his MS access application with custom OLE hooks that he wrote in 1996.
Apple on the other hand doesn't design their OS for the past, they build it for the future. They draw a line in the sand and say after this your old stuff won't work. They give you a transition time for your vendors to get up to speed with updates but they rarely stop the train for anybody. The only notable exception being holding on to OS 9 for a while longer while Quark got their ass in gear. Apple is also not afraid to remove technologies they see as dead end or limiting, sure techies get in an uproar but my mom has no idea she doesn't have a JVM or rosetta installed on her Macbook now or even why she would need them.
you think apple invented laptops this thin? the first one was a sony made about 5-6 years ago
these ultrabooks will be more cost effective than a MBA. you can find out for yourself when HP / Asus unveils the official MSRP. until then, stop pulling facts out of your asses.
Actually, Toshiba was first with the Libretto in 1996.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiba_Libretto
Anyway, competition is a good thing, but some people are questioning whether Intel (supposedly one of Apple's partners and biggest customers) is trying to undermine Apple. I don't think so, but it's a legitimate question.