Well, i see an update soon, no g5 but faster g4 (single, dual or even quad) processors, no ddr, but the new nvidia card as an option. no redesign of the case.
They probably decided that no one would buy them anymore anyway so they just build you a computer as needed.
They get an order in and then some monkey starts soldering together a motherboard and then puts all the stuff in the case. Then he finds a box somewhere and ships it to the proud new sap... er... owner of a 733 Mhz G4.
<strong>Well, i see an update soon, no g5 but faster g4 (single, dual or even quad) processors, no ddr, but the new nvidia card as an option. no redesign of the case.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with the update! But why no G5? Do you have inside information, or is peer pressure having an affect? There's too much "no this, yes that" from people who only drink the bathwater here at AI. (rs - not to pick on you - it's rampant.)
<strong>Well, i see an update soon, no g5 but faster g4 (single, dual or even quad) processors, no ddr, but the new nvidia card as an option. no redesign of the case.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And I guess you think the new white keyboard and mouse match the QS case?
I agree with the update! But why no G5? Do you have inside information, or is peer pressure having an affect? There's too much "no this, yes that" from people who only drink the bathwater here at AI. (rs - not to pick on you - it's rampant.)</strong><hr></blockquote>
The G5 is not ready. Get over it. Expect a G4 update first.
Perhaps the G4 quantity was still high and they wanted to clear the channel so they could release a new product? after all, the G4 crystal clear savings promo ends at the end of Jan...then what? Back to normal? Apple has always run a promotion before intro'ing a new product...DAVE
Sorry KR...maybe that should be maybe they've run very low and the new product isn't ready yet, and is expected anytime soon...like I just said, usually Apple marks down products in the form of "Promos" immediately before intro'ing a new product.
First off, when has apple ever shipped anything in less than seven days (perihperals aside). Tower, pb's etc. aren't made in quantities like pc's and more importantly the chips are fairly scarce. I have three apples now and each took more than a couple of weeks to receive. The og beige g3 took almost six weeks. I'm not sure how distribution works for apple but from what I can tell most of their products *cpu's) ship direct from korea.
I have to agree that g5's are inevitabley around the corner. Final cut's new aspirations almost demand it. Real time rendering without hardware is marginal at best even with a new 867mhz. chip. Faster ddr ram, bus speeds and better video cards are all needed to get apple where they want to go. ,replacing low end (under $25,000 us) broadcast and film editing stations. The media 100 people have known this for a couple of years now and have resigned to developing software instead of hardware that apple is replacing.
Further the apollo chip appears to be geared towards pb's and the new imac.(low power, low heat etc.) Although the appolo revision may fix theses problems remember that even mototola has stated that the g4 chip cannot support more than two chips on the motherboard and further it cannot extend too far beyond 1ghz.
Lastly, AMD and to a lesser extent intel are killing the motorola chips in terms of raw power. While mhz. are generally a poor measure of overall performance it is a measure we can use. Apple claims nearly twice the power from chips half the speed. 500mhz= 1ghz. (appx. for sure) So even with an 800 mhz that's still 30% slower. I can work much faster on a mac os system but that's cutting it awfully close to nullifying the time saved because of a freindly interface.
Apple has set high goals that it must meet. If it fails (and it won't) it will be another long recovery for apple that i don't think they can afford right now is no time to come up short when you've promised the mooon.
Why are people saying things like 'Apollo wont work in a PM' and 'apollo chip appears to be geared towards pb's and the new imac?'
Is there any evidence about this or is it conjecture?
A high clocking G5 would be a great performance/marketing boost for Apple, but we have been hearing about the Apollo chips for a year now. Before yesterday, I never heard anyone mention that these cips would not go into the PM. Why has the tune changed?
[quote]First off, when has apple ever shipped anything in less than seven days (perihperals aside).<hr></blockquote>
About two weeks ago. You could get a Powerbook in 3 days and any of the Powermacs in 3 days. About a month ago the ship time for the Powermacs was about 1-2 days.
The tune has never changed, Apple and moto have been working on the g5 chip for almost three years now. Curious to note that all of my old bookmarks to any and all G5 info are invalid. I can't anything on that project anymore. Last I heard from moto is that they had embedded the altivec engine directly into the processor thus making it null and void to need altivec enhanced software (which most of it isn't)
As far as the apollo Goes it's not that it won't work in a tower but moto has stated that I is a low power consumtion, low heat chip. If it's not designed for compacts and all in one's then why bother? A speed gain would be much more to the point. Maybe to fill the demand apple would like to use the same chips in all of their machines but even pc's don't do that. So unless moto has made major enhancements that even they thought they couldn't then why continue using a g4 chip if it won't ever exceed 1.5 ghz and won't ever support more than two chips. Osx and darwin apps want those things and if pro's are buyin computer for a three year pitch why would you buy a machine that won't support new software capabilities in the future. The g4 is a great chip but I excpect it to be replaced simply because it will never do what Apple is gearing up to do within the next three years.
The G5 has been in development for a very long time. The Apollo is nothing more than a variant of the G4 design. It's designed for low power, low heat applications. In contrast, the G5 is built for raw speed, damn the power consumption and heat dissipation, full speed ahead!
It makes sense that Apple will need to be able to speed bump their portables to 1 GHz and slightly over, because it will be some time before a low power version of the G5 is developed. Remember how long it took to get the G4 into a powerbook?
So expect the laptops, even the powerbooks, to use the G4 for a long time. The Apollo is going to help the laptops keep up with the G5s, so that Apple doesn't have a 700 MHz Titanium selling next to a 1.6 GHz G5 powermac. Instead it will be more like a 1.2 GHz Titanium and a 1.6 GHz Powermac.
Exactly, g3's were fimly nestled into the pb's for a long A** time. Apple still needs headroom for the imac and pb's to grow before the next chip (G5) would be small enough and cool enough to be in a pbk. or all in one. And we all know that ther isn't allot of that goin around with the g4.
Anyone think that the mention of the G5 anywhere might mean that there is more going on behind the scenes than we know? It doesn't mean that the processor just disappeared. I firmly believe that there is a LOT of IBM involvement in the G5, just a lot of licensing from Mot, and this will all be laid out when the G5 is announced.
Think about it: Apple has a small market share to begin with... now 3 of 4 Macs use G4's, not G3's. G4's are made by Mot, G3's made by IBM. What the hell incentive does IBM have right now to make dektop PowerPC's anymore? By giving it the G5 business, that's how.
Bodhi, I never thought about IBm doing the chip and that's why Moto has been so hush hush. Don't I also could never figure out why IBM already had a G5 server chip. Why would 2 companies have the same chip names.
Moto could supply G4s for the entire remaning Apple line which is plenty of chips. And IBM could do just the G5 and/or the Sahara G3 for the iBook. Interesting.
<strong>Bodhi, I never thought about IBm doing the chip and that's why Moto has been so hush hush. Don't I also could never figure out why IBM already had a G5 server chip. Why would 2 companies have the same chip names.
Moto could supply G4s for the entire remaning Apple line which is plenty of chips. And IBM could do just the G5 and/or the Sahara G3 for the iBook. Interesting.</strong><hr></blockquote>
IBM don't have a server chip called the G5, they have a mainframe system called G5 with nothing to do with PowerPC.
How can you extrapolate from a publication from Motorola about a future (the 8540 is not even sampling yet) chip of theirs, in their G5 range of PowerPC ISA chips, that IBM might be going to build something for Apple called the G5.
<strong>Then why wait 10 to ship them? Ship them today or in 2-3 days to get rid of them.</strong><hr></blockquote>
before the new iMac was released, the ship times for the iMac were 10 days, I don't remember for how long they were 10 days(from 2-3) but I'm pretty sure it was a week or two at most, if thats the case then new powermacs ARE right around the corner, ones that I would assume to be g5s however
especially considering that the apollo g4s(that all the rumor sites were CONVINCED would go in the new powermac) are for powerbooks and the iMac(makes sense) in the past month powerbooks got combo drives, iBooks got a bigger LCD, and a new iMac was released(was the iPod released as as well? or was that in november?) at any rate the only thing left, short brand new devices, is the powermac, the last powermac revision was I think 6 months ago, maybe a more, so in that sense it seems like a major thing for apple to make a revision in 6 months time(this is apple here)but a complete computer make-over that has been in the works for as long as the g4 has been around? seems like its possible.
oh well, I'll be happy with 300 mhz+ bus and DDR ram even if it was only a 1 ghz processor(though if it was 1.4-1.6 that would be awesome)
Comments
Makes sense to me.
As much sense as the imac design.
They get an order in and then some monkey starts soldering together a motherboard and then puts all the stuff in the case. Then he finds a box somewhere and ships it to the proud new sap... er... owner of a 733 Mhz G4.
<strong>Well, i see an update soon, no g5 but faster g4 (single, dual or even quad) processors, no ddr, but the new nvidia card as an option. no redesign of the case.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with the update! But why no G5? Do you have inside information, or is peer pressure having an affect? There's too much "no this, yes that" from people who only drink the bathwater here at AI. (rs - not to pick on you - it's rampant.)
<strong>Well, i see an update soon, no g5 but faster g4 (single, dual or even quad) processors, no ddr, but the new nvidia card as an option. no redesign of the case.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And I guess you think the new white keyboard and mouse match the QS case?
<strong>
I agree with the update! But why no G5? Do you have inside information, or is peer pressure having an affect? There's too much "no this, yes that" from people who only drink the bathwater here at AI. (rs - not to pick on you - it's rampant.)</strong><hr></blockquote>
The G5 is not ready. Get over it. Expect a G4 update first.
-S
[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: Dave Hagan ]</p>
I have to agree that g5's are inevitabley around the corner. Final cut's new aspirations almost demand it. Real time rendering without hardware is marginal at best even with a new 867mhz. chip. Faster ddr ram, bus speeds and better video cards are all needed to get apple where they want to go. ,replacing low end (under $25,000 us) broadcast and film editing stations. The media 100 people have known this for a couple of years now and have resigned to developing software instead of hardware that apple is replacing.
Further the apollo chip appears to be geared towards pb's and the new imac.(low power, low heat etc.) Although the appolo revision may fix theses problems remember that even mototola has stated that the g4 chip cannot support more than two chips on the motherboard and further it cannot extend too far beyond 1ghz.
Lastly, AMD and to a lesser extent intel are killing the motorola chips in terms of raw power. While mhz. are generally a poor measure of overall performance it is a measure we can use. Apple claims nearly twice the power from chips half the speed. 500mhz= 1ghz. (appx. for sure) So even with an 800 mhz that's still 30% slower. I can work much faster on a mac os system but that's cutting it awfully close to nullifying the time saved because of a freindly interface.
Apple has set high goals that it must meet. If it fails (and it won't) it will be another long recovery for apple that i don't think they can afford right now is no time to come up short when you've promised the mooon.
Is there any evidence about this or is it conjecture?
A high clocking G5 would be a great performance/marketing boost for Apple, but we have been hearing about the Apollo chips for a year now. Before yesterday, I never heard anyone mention that these cips would not go into the PM. Why has the tune changed?
About two weeks ago. You could get a Powerbook in 3 days and any of the Powermacs in 3 days. About a month ago the ship time for the Powermacs was about 1-2 days.
Click on a 14" iBook...ship time is 3 days.
As far as the apollo Goes it's not that it won't work in a tower but moto has stated that I is a low power consumtion, low heat chip. If it's not designed for compacts and all in one's then why bother? A speed gain would be much more to the point. Maybe to fill the demand apple would like to use the same chips in all of their machines but even pc's don't do that. So unless moto has made major enhancements that even they thought they couldn't then why continue using a g4 chip if it won't ever exceed 1.5 ghz and won't ever support more than two chips. Osx and darwin apps want those things and if pro's are buyin computer for a three year pitch why would you buy a machine that won't support new software capabilities in the future. The g4 is a great chip but I excpect it to be replaced simply because it will never do what Apple is gearing up to do within the next three years.
The G5 has been in development for a very long time. The Apollo is nothing more than a variant of the G4 design. It's designed for low power, low heat applications. In contrast, the G5 is built for raw speed, damn the power consumption and heat dissipation, full speed ahead!
It makes sense that Apple will need to be able to speed bump their portables to 1 GHz and slightly over, because it will be some time before a low power version of the G5 is developed. Remember how long it took to get the G4 into a powerbook?
So expect the laptops, even the powerbooks, to use the G4 for a long time. The Apollo is going to help the laptops keep up with the G5s, so that Apple doesn't have a 700 MHz Titanium selling next to a 1.6 GHz G5 powermac. Instead it will be more like a 1.2 GHz Titanium and a 1.6 GHz Powermac.
Exactly, g3's were fimly nestled into the pb's for a long A** time. Apple still needs headroom for the imac and pb's to grow before the next chip (G5) would be small enough and cool enough to be in a pbk. or all in one. And we all know that ther isn't allot of that goin around with the g4.
The core technologies for the G5 are already being used <a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC8540&nodeId=03M9430304504 67M98655" target="_blank">here.</a> This is basically a G5 but 32 bit and no AltiVec, but this shows that they have things shipping right now on a .13 micron process, RapidIO, and able to work with DDR ram.
Think about it: Apple has a small market share to begin with... now 3 of 4 Macs use G4's, not G3's. G4's are made by Mot, G3's made by IBM. What the hell incentive does IBM have right now to make dektop PowerPC's anymore? By giving it the G5 business, that's how.
Moto could supply G4s for the entire remaning Apple line which is plenty of chips. And IBM could do just the G5 and/or the Sahara G3 for the iBook. Interesting.
<strong>Bodhi, I never thought about IBm doing the chip and that's why Moto has been so hush hush. Don't I also could never figure out why IBM already had a G5 server chip. Why would 2 companies have the same chip names.
Moto could supply G4s for the entire remaning Apple line which is plenty of chips. And IBM could do just the G5 and/or the Sahara G3 for the iBook. Interesting.</strong><hr></blockquote>
IBM don't have a server chip called the G5, they have a mainframe system called G5 with nothing to do with PowerPC.
How can you extrapolate from a publication from Motorola about a future (the 8540 is not even sampling yet) chip of theirs, in their G5 range of PowerPC ISA chips, that IBM might be going to build something for Apple called the G5.
Michael
<strong>Then why wait 10 to ship them? Ship them today or in 2-3 days to get rid of them.</strong><hr></blockquote>
before the new iMac was released, the ship times for the iMac were 10 days, I don't remember for how long they were 10 days(from 2-3) but I'm pretty sure it was a week or two at most, if thats the case then new powermacs ARE right around the corner, ones that I would assume to be g5s however
especially considering that the apollo g4s(that all the rumor sites were CONVINCED would go in the new powermac) are for powerbooks and the iMac(makes sense) in the past month powerbooks got combo drives, iBooks got a bigger LCD, and a new iMac was released(was the iPod released as as well? or was that in november?) at any rate the only thing left, short brand new devices, is the powermac, the last powermac revision was I think 6 months ago, maybe a more, so in that sense it seems like a major thing for apple to make a revision in 6 months time(this is apple here)but a complete computer make-over that has been in the works for as long as the g4 has been around? seems like its possible.
oh well, I'll be happy with 300 mhz+ bus and DDR ram even if it was only a 1 ghz processor(though if it was 1.4-1.6 that would be awesome)