?Steve built a company and culture that is unlike any other in the world and we are going to stay true to that ? it is in our DNA?, he wrote. The message rang true, with some staff reported to have wept at their desks."
i cannot believe the reported weeping employees to be true ...
i cannot believe the reported weeping employees to be true ...
*I* wept at my desk the morning I got the news. And I don't even work for Apple, just an Apple Reseller here in South East Asia, which I left a few months ago. Tears were definitely shed in Cupertino.
unique design with monitor and computer in same box? you mean the original Mac in didn't have this??
the mac went wrong as soon as steve was fired. the original was elegant and minimal for its day. after steve left it got bulkier and uglier. Ivey just modernized the original mac and brought it back to its roots. a new look, the return of steve, and you had some major momentum.
even if Amelio had some input on that he can't claim ipod, new lcd imac design, iphone, ipad, mac air, aluminum macbook pros, os x, IOS, magic mouse, magic trackpad, can he? he became ceo in 1996, stock dropped even more, then he did the only sensible thing, and the only thing he should be applauded for: buying NeXt.
Nobody is defending Amelio, other than to say that he was headed in the same direction as the iMac with the G3 aio... and I don't think anyone remotely suggested that Amelio had anything to do with the iPod etc.
As a matter of fact, I'm quite positive that Amelio would have sold Apple to Sun had Steve not made a night visit to Amelio at his home.
*I* wept at my desk the morning I got the news. And I don't even work for Apple, just an Apple Reseller here in South East Asia, which I left a few months ago. Tears were definitely shed in Cupertino.
You'd better hope that Scaramanga doesn't read this...
It always made me wonder why Ive couldn't have designed the bondi blue iMac before Steve entered the picture in 97. Ive had been working at Apple even while Sculley was there.
I can't help thinking that the G3 aio was a design from Ive's hand, and then when Steve came back he looked at the box, called Ive to his office and said something to the effect of, "I know you can do better than that.".
However it came about, Ive became #1 in the design team when Steve took over.
The best leaders bring about the best in people... if said people can "jive" with said leaders.
Actually... you're comparing the iMac to the wrong computer that was made under Amelio's reign. The iMac very closely resembled the G3 aio... the guts were almost identical except for the use of usb. http://www.kevinomura.com/macs/g3aio/index.html The G3 AIO even had a translucent back. Sadly... it never made it beyond the US education market.
I honestly believe that the majority of the work was done under Amelio's watch but Steve, along with Ive, showed what could be done with that beige box... something that could never have been envisioned by Amelio.
ROTFLMAO.
Thanks for proving my point.
The idea of an all-in-one computer wasn't new. In fact, look at the original Mac, Mac Plus, Mac SE, etc. What was new about the iMac was a sense of style and willingness to leave the past behind. It was a computer designed for users and designed to be eye-catching. You can't say any of that about the G3AIO above. In fact, the G3AIO is, as I said, almost the antithesis of the iMac. Butt ugly, every extra under the sun (CD, floppy, AND zip drives!), rectangular(ish) shape, all legacy ports included, etc - essentially more of the same old thing.
If THAT is what Amelio was referring to when he said he invented the iMac, it's no wonder he was unable to drag Apple out of its doldrums.
The idea of an all-in-one computer wasn't new. In fact, look at the original Mac, Mac Plus, Mac SE, etc. What was new about the iMac was a sense of style and willingness to leave the past behind. It was a computer designed for users and designed to be eye-catching. You can't say any of that about the G3AIO above. In fact, the G3AIO is, as I said, almost the antithesis of the iMac. Butt ugly, every extra under the sun (CD, floppy, AND zip drives!), rectangular(ish) shape, all legacy ports included, etc - essentially more of the same old thing.
If THAT is what Amelio was referring to when he said he invented the iMac, it's no wonder he was unable to drag Apple out of its doldrums.
Hmmm... I didn't see anyone say that Amelio "invented" the iMac but thank you for revising my comments.
I don't think it was butt ugly (G3 aio)... not even close. Step back in time (you might be too young) and you'd realize that the G3 aio was well ahead of the competition. It wasn't even close to the same old thing.
Amelio had prepared Apple for the iMac. He saw the direction. He got the guts built. Steve saw Ive's talent (as I said... I'm sure the G3 aio was an Ive design) and asked him to do better. [on edit; the case was actually designed under Amelio's reign]
Steve is a visionary, Ive is a designer and Amelio is a technician... all three contributed to the iMac G3.
Hmmm... I didn't see anyone say that Amelio "invented" the iMac but thank you for revising my comments.
You're not paying attention. See your own post #109 for the reference:
"(Amelio claimed most of the project had been completed under his watch)."
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
I don't think it was butt ugly (G3 aio)... not even close. Step back in time (you might be too young) and you'd realize that the G3 aio was well ahead of the competition. It wasn't even close to the same old thing.
Amelio had prepared Apple for the iMac. He saw the direction. He got the guts built. Steve saw Ive's talent (as I said... I'm sure the G3 aio was an Ive design) and asked him to do better. [on edit; the case was actually designed under Amelio's reign]
So you simply ignored everything I said.
The important stuff about the iMac was not that it was an AIO - Apple had been selling those since the beginning of the Mac. The important stuff was the break with tradition, dropping of existing ports and technologies, and the overall design. The G3AIO had none of that.
Basically, the G3 AIO was an attempt to fit all existing technologies into one box. The iMac was a complete break with the past.
You're not paying attention. See your own post #109 for the reference:
"(Amelio claimed most of the project had been completed under his watch)."
... and where does it say that he "invented"the iMac? Yes, most of the project was completed under his watch... guts, exterior... what more is there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
So you simply ignored everything I said.
The important stuff about the iMac was not that it was an AIO - Apple had been selling those since the beginning of the Mac. The important stuff was the break with tradition, dropping of existing ports and technologies, and the overall design. The G3AIO had none of that.
Basically, the G3 AIO was an attempt to fit all existing technologies into one box. The iMac was a complete break with the past.
... and you're ignoring the essence of the conversation. All we ever said was that Gill had claimed to say that most of the project had been completed under his watch and it was (see above).
You are just trying to put words in people's mouths and are constantly changing the position of the goalposts.
[ on edit: basically put... Amelio was looking for ideas... he knew Apple had to simplify. He gave Ive and others in the design team the job to come up with something different. Ive designed what was to become the Bondi Blue (the translucent back is what makes me believe Ive designed the G3 aio). Amelio hemmed and hawed at the design but Steve saw the potential... simplify to the max... and the Internet Mac was born... later to be called the iMac just before release. Amelio had all of the pieces ready and Steve completed the puzzle... and it took a lot of balls to introduce the iMac.]
To me the point of contention seems to be what emphasis we put on various design elements as being the real break with the past and commencing the revolution of the new Apple.
To my eyes, we have this (which itself is an culmination of incremental updates to the original aio mac):
begetting this, which is another incremental update with the barest whiff of the Ives esthetic to come, and which continues to sport floppy drives and the usual complement of ports:
Followed by this, which is radically different, not just in design, but in what it leaves out (floppy, ports), those things being a hallmark of the Jobs/Ives era to come:
Of course, when it comes to computers, it's always possible to say that two are similar in that they have a screen and run an OS and whatnot, but clearly there is a giant leap forward with the iMac. Do anyone think that Apple was going to put itself back on the map with another incremental update to the PowerMac G3 AIO? And isn't it in the specific details that Jobs and Ives have distinguished themselves and Apple? I mean, we can say that someone other than Jobs got the ball rolling on laptops, but the specific laptops that came out of Cupertino once Jobs was back in charge are part of what put Apple back on the map.
To me the point of contention seems to be what emphasis we put on various design elements as being the real break with the past and commencing the revolution of the new Apple.
Of course, when it comes to computers, it's always possible to say that two are similar in that they have a screen and run an OS and whatnot, but clearly there is a giant leap forward with the iMac. Do anyone think that Apple was going to put itself back on the map with another incremental update to the PowerMac G3 AIO? And isn't it in the specific details that Jobs and Ives have distinguished themselves and Apple? I mean, we can say that someone other than Jobs got the ball rolling on laptops, but the specific laptops that came out of Cupertino once Jobs was back in charge are part of what put Apple back on the map.
Actually, the point of contention (if you're talking about my discussion with that other person) is not that at all... or at least it isn't in my eyes.
What I'm saying is that Amelio was right in saying that the bulk of the work for the iMac was done on his watch. The guts and the case were designed while he was in charge. He hadn't even decided if he wasn't going to use it. [on edit: I read an article that said that Amelio was shown a translucent case designed by Ive but he couldn't decide whether to use it or not - and, I'm sorry, I didn't link it but will find it again if necessary] At that point Steve took over and there was absolutely no doubt in his mind where he wanted to go.
There was absolutely no discussion about design or its attributes in my comments.
Okay... I was wrong. Not that anyone here bothered to find the information necessary to correct me... I had to research it some more myself.
But some things about the iMac are not so new.
The all-in-one monitor and computer design is an Apple hallmark, going back to the first Macintosh in 1984, Ives said. When interim Chief Executive Officer Steve Jobs approached the design team one year ago to talk about building what would become the iMac, he was clear he wanted to build on this historic form while at the same time updating it, Ives said. When Apple was struggling with its product strategy several years ago, the machines were becoming more and more conservative and in line with the "beige box" status quo, which wasn't Apple's philosophy, Ives said.
"One thing most people don't know is that Steve Jobs is an exceptional designer," he said. Jobs was involved throughout iMac's entire design life cycle, which Ives called "a vigorous intellectual process." A small team of designers worked like maniacs for several months to come up with the design, which was largely informed by what consumers wanted, he said.
First, people wanted a smaller PC that was easy to pick up and move; this was especially true in Europe and Asia where living spaces are smaller, Ives said. Ives put a large handle on the back "that invites people to pick it up and touch it," he said. Second, they wanted ease of use, fewer cables to connect and no complicated documentation to read when setting up the machine.
"We tried to do things in a simple, elegant way," Ives said. Most computer makers don't realize how afraid many people are of computers; Apple wanted the iMac to be "approachable," he said. The idea that the iMac comes in one box, has clear plastic that catches the light and shows its changing nature and has a shape that "looks like it just arrived" all contribute to the overall approachability and appeal of the machine, Ives said.
He is also heading up the design team responsible for the upcoming portable consumer Macintosh due out in mid-1999, but Ives wouldn't give any hints about how it may look. Because iMac's design was such a departure from the traditional PC, people are expecting something revolutionary for the portable version as well, he said.
"Expectation is extraordinarily high, it's a bit scary," Ives admitted.
Amelio might have been at the helm and the guts may have been there but it was Jobs and Ive all the way for the iMac casing design.
(Interesting note... and the more I read the more I remember the entire scenario... Jobs almost axed Ives because Jobs axed damn near everyone. Jobs was actually looking around for a design head... I remember that well because we used to joke about Macs looking like sports cars (one of the design people he was looking at was a car designer).
What I'm saying is that Amelio was right in saying that the bulk of the work for the iMac was done on his watch. The guts and the case were designed while he was in charge. He hadn't even decided if he wasn't going to use it. At that point Steve took over and there was absolutely no doubt in his mind where he wanted to go.
Feel free to provide evidence that the guts and the case of the iMac were done before Amelio left. (hint: that monstrosity you provided is not an iMac).
And when you get through with that, why don't you tell us why it took over a year after Amelio's departure for the product to be launched if the guts and the case were already done?
You're playing pretty fast and loose with the facts.
Actually, the point of contention (if you're talking about my discussion with that other person) is not that at all... or at least it isn't in my eyes.
What I'm saying is that Amelio was right in saying that the bulk of the work for the iMac was done on his watch. The guts and the case were designed while he was in charge. He hadn't even decided if he wasn't going to use it. At that point Steve took over and there was absolutely no doubt in his mind where he wanted to go.
There was absolutely no discussion about design or its attributes in my comments.
Huh. Because it looks like to me that posts 130 on explicitly are talking about what I'm talking about-- with you maintaining that the G3 AIO represents the better part of the journey to the iMac, and jragosta countering that it was really just more of the same, with the actual iMac being a decisive break.
Now I see that you've edited your post to say that the iMac case was designed under Amelio-- do you have a link about that?
At any rate, repeating that "the guts" had been done under Amelio doesn't really mean anything-- the guts were never what was radical about the iMac. It was an overall idea (again, a hallmark of the Jobs/Ives era) of a fun, all in one, insanely easy to set up computer "for the rest of us", in a callback to the original Mac mandate.
To achieve that Jobs axed legacy ports and floppies (much to the horror of the pundits and bashers of the day) so that he could have Jeff Goldblum giggle about there being no third step. Everything about the iMac as released under Jobs reinforced that idea-- not threatening, not bristling with external hardware or cables, ready to go out of the box, easy to carry around, just an ethernet and powercord connection away from being online. Even the "i" in "iMac" was initially taken to mean "internet mac"-- a forward looking net appliance that derived most of its value from being connected to the web, so that it didn't need a bunch of legacy cruft.
I'm suspicious about how far the case design got under Amelio, but I'm willing to bet that he'd never have gone for axing the floppy and ports-- which arguably was the opening shot of the new Jobs era of simplification.
Feel free to provide evidence that the guts and the case of the iMac were done before Amelio left. (hint: that monstrosity you provided is not an iMac).
And when you get through with that, why don't you tell us why it took over a year after Amelio's departure for the product to be launched if the guts and the case were already done?
You're playing pretty fast and loose with the facts.
Hmmmm... I never ever saw you post any "facts", so it's pretty hard to play fast and loose with something that isn't there. I had to find the facts for myself.
There were plenty of articles that stated that Amelio was the push for the iMac case [on edit: or that Amelio was there when the translucent case was presented but couldn't decide if he should use it] but I finally found one that quoted Ive himself... which can't be any clearer (post 134).
So don't go patting yourself on the back... anything you were saying was just made up as you went along... no history whatsoever... no links... nothing... but are you man enough to admit that?
Fugly... Man, I am glad I never saw one of those -- I may never have bought an iMac.
Quote:
I honestly believe that the majority of the work was done under Amelio's watch but Steve, along with Ive, showed what could be done with that beige box... something that could never have been envisioned by Amelio.
You certainly can see a likeness -- just add USB, remove 2 floppy drives and the A/V I/O... some svelte packaging...
My daughter and her family bought the Snow model -- her 3-year-old son just loved shoving coins into the CD slot...
...It seems, at least to him, that there was a step 3!
Huh. Because it looks like to me that posts 130 on explicitly are talking about what I'm talking about-- with you maintaining that the G3 AIO represents the better part of the journey to the iMac, and jragosta countering that it was really just more of the same, with the actual iMac being a decisive break.
Now I see that you've edited your post to say that the iMac case was designed under Amelio-- do you have a link about that?
At any rate, repeating that "the guts" had been done under Amelio doesn't really mean anything-- the guts were never what was radical about the iMac. It was an overall idea (again, a hallmark of the Jobs/Ives era) of a fun, all in one, insanely easy to set up computer "for the rest of us", in a callback to the original Mac mandate.
To achieve that Jobs axed legacy ports and floppies (much to the horror of the pundits and bashers of the day) so that he could have Jeff Goldblum giggle about there being no third step. Everything about the iMac as released under Jobs reinforced that idea-- not threatening, not bristling with external hardware or cables, ready to go out of the box, easy to carry around, just an ethernet and powercord connection away from being online. Even the "i" in "iMac" was initially taken to mean "internet mac"-- a forward looking net appliance that derived most of its value from being connected to the web, so that it didn't need a bunch of legacy cruft.
I'm suspicious about how far the case design got under Amelio, but I'm willing to bet that he'd never have gone for axing the floppy and ports-- which arguably was the opening shot of the new Jobs era of simplification.
I had read 2 articles that stated that Amelio was in the boardroom with Jobs when Ives and the design team showed the translucent case (strange thing... some articles said that Ives became the head of design under Amelio in 96 and others say that happened in 97 under Jobs. Regardless... I found the article with the quote from Ives that clarifies the whole thing.
Interesting note... 43% of the buyers of the first iMac were new Mac users... and Apple sold 800,000 of them in the first 5 months. It makes me wonder how many Apple would have sold had they put in an extra drive bay under the cd tray... considering that was the biggest bitch at the time. I know I held back for 2 years and then bought the grey special edition model... I wasn't sure how the iMac was going to fly when it was introduced.
Fugly... Man, I am glad I never saw one of those -- I may never have bought an iMac.
You certainly can see a likeness -- just add USB, remove 2 floppy drives and the A/V I/O... some svelte packaging...
My daughter and her family bought the Snow model -- her 3-year-old son just loved shoving coins into the CD slot...
...It seems, at least to him, that there was a step 3!
Well, Dick... we may have been wrong about Amelio's contribution but at least we got to the bottom of it. ... and, by the way, I would have bought one of those... or I would have bought an iMac when they first came out... if it just would have had a zip drive.
Reading through all of the articles made me remember how much I had forgotten... from the early 80s right up until around 2001 I used to read every thing I could find about Apple... I had so many books on the subject that I think I worried my Wife.
Comments
?Steve built a company and culture that is unlike any other in the world and we are going to stay true to that ? it is in our DNA?, he wrote. The message rang true, with some staff reported to have wept at their desks."
i cannot believe the reported weeping employees to be true ...
from http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/ef63aaf4-d...#axzz1W9xyprNS
i cannot believe the reported weeping employees to be true ...
*I* wept at my desk the morning I got the news. And I don't even work for Apple, just an Apple Reseller here in South East Asia, which I left a few months ago. Tears were definitely shed in Cupertino.
unique design with monitor and computer in same box? you mean the original Mac in didn't have this??
the mac went wrong as soon as steve was fired. the original was elegant and minimal for its day. after steve left it got bulkier and uglier. Ivey just modernized the original mac and brought it back to its roots. a new look, the return of steve, and you had some major momentum.
even if Amelio had some input on that he can't claim ipod, new lcd imac design, iphone, ipad, mac air, aluminum macbook pros, os x, IOS, magic mouse, magic trackpad, can he? he became ceo in 1996, stock dropped even more, then he did the only sensible thing, and the only thing he should be applauded for: buying NeXt.
Nobody is defending Amelio, other than to say that he was headed in the same direction as the iMac with the G3 aio... and I don't think anyone remotely suggested that Amelio had anything to do with the iPod etc.
As a matter of fact, I'm quite positive that Amelio would have sold Apple to Sun had Steve not made a night visit to Amelio at his home.
*I* wept at my desk the morning I got the news. And I don't even work for Apple, just an Apple Reseller here in South East Asia, which I left a few months ago. Tears were definitely shed in Cupertino.
You'd better hope that Scaramanga doesn't read this...
It always made me wonder why Ive couldn't have designed the bondi blue iMac before Steve entered the picture in 97. Ive had been working at Apple even while Sculley was there.
I can't help thinking that the G3 aio was a design from Ive's hand, and then when Steve came back he looked at the box, called Ive to his office and said something to the effect of, "I know you can do better than that.".
However it came about, Ive became #1 in the design team when Steve took over.
The best leaders bring about the best in people... if said people can "jive" with said leaders.
You'd better hope that Scaramanga doesn't read this...
Actually... you're comparing the iMac to the wrong computer that was made under Amelio's reign. The iMac very closely resembled the G3 aio... the guts were almost identical except for the use of usb. http://www.kevinomura.com/macs/g3aio/index.html The G3 AIO even had a translucent back. Sadly... it never made it beyond the US education market.
I honestly believe that the majority of the work was done under Amelio's watch but Steve, along with Ive, showed what could be done with that beige box... something that could never have been envisioned by Amelio.
ROTFLMAO.
Thanks for proving my point.
The idea of an all-in-one computer wasn't new. In fact, look at the original Mac, Mac Plus, Mac SE, etc. What was new about the iMac was a sense of style and willingness to leave the past behind. It was a computer designed for users and designed to be eye-catching. You can't say any of that about the G3AIO above. In fact, the G3AIO is, as I said, almost the antithesis of the iMac. Butt ugly, every extra under the sun (CD, floppy, AND zip drives!), rectangular(ish) shape, all legacy ports included, etc - essentially more of the same old thing.
If THAT is what Amelio was referring to when he said he invented the iMac, it's no wonder he was unable to drag Apple out of its doldrums.
ROTFLMAO.
Thanks for proving my point.
The idea of an all-in-one computer wasn't new. In fact, look at the original Mac, Mac Plus, Mac SE, etc. What was new about the iMac was a sense of style and willingness to leave the past behind. It was a computer designed for users and designed to be eye-catching. You can't say any of that about the G3AIO above. In fact, the G3AIO is, as I said, almost the antithesis of the iMac. Butt ugly, every extra under the sun (CD, floppy, AND zip drives!), rectangular(ish) shape, all legacy ports included, etc - essentially more of the same old thing.
If THAT is what Amelio was referring to when he said he invented the iMac, it's no wonder he was unable to drag Apple out of its doldrums.
Hmmm... I didn't see anyone say that Amelio "invented" the iMac but thank you for revising my comments.
I don't think it was butt ugly (G3 aio)... not even close. Step back in time (you might be too young) and you'd realize that the G3 aio was well ahead of the competition. It wasn't even close to the same old thing.
Amelio had prepared Apple for the iMac. He saw the direction. He got the guts built. Steve saw Ive's talent (as I said... I'm sure the G3 aio was an Ive design) and asked him to do better. [on edit; the case was actually designed under Amelio's reign]
Steve is a visionary, Ive is a designer and Amelio is a technician... all three contributed to the iMac G3.
Hmmm... I didn't see anyone say that Amelio "invented" the iMac but thank you for revising my comments.
You're not paying attention. See your own post #109 for the reference:
"(Amelio claimed most of the project had been completed under his watch)."
I don't think it was butt ugly (G3 aio)... not even close. Step back in time (you might be too young) and you'd realize that the G3 aio was well ahead of the competition. It wasn't even close to the same old thing.
Amelio had prepared Apple for the iMac. He saw the direction. He got the guts built. Steve saw Ive's talent (as I said... I'm sure the G3 aio was an Ive design) and asked him to do better. [on edit; the case was actually designed under Amelio's reign]
So you simply ignored everything I said.
The important stuff about the iMac was not that it was an AIO - Apple had been selling those since the beginning of the Mac. The important stuff was the break with tradition, dropping of existing ports and technologies, and the overall design. The G3AIO had none of that.
Basically, the G3 AIO was an attempt to fit all existing technologies into one box. The iMac was a complete break with the past.
You're not paying attention. See your own post #109 for the reference:
"(Amelio claimed most of the project had been completed under his watch)."
... and where does it say that he "invented"the iMac? Yes, most of the project was completed under his watch... guts, exterior... what more is there.
So you simply ignored everything I said.
The important stuff about the iMac was not that it was an AIO - Apple had been selling those since the beginning of the Mac. The important stuff was the break with tradition, dropping of existing ports and technologies, and the overall design. The G3AIO had none of that.
Basically, the G3 AIO was an attempt to fit all existing technologies into one box. The iMac was a complete break with the past.
... and you're ignoring the essence of the conversation. All we ever said was that Gill had claimed to say that most of the project had been completed under his watch and it was (see above).
You are just trying to put words in people's mouths and are constantly changing the position of the goalposts.
[ on edit: basically put... Amelio was looking for ideas... he knew Apple had to simplify. He gave Ive and others in the design team the job to come up with something different. Ive designed what was to become the Bondi Blue (the translucent back is what makes me believe Ive designed the G3 aio). Amelio hemmed and hawed at the design but Steve saw the potential... simplify to the max... and the Internet Mac was born... later to be called the iMac just before release. Amelio had all of the pieces ready and Steve completed the puzzle... and it took a lot of balls to introduce the iMac.]
To my eyes, we have this (which itself is an culmination of incremental updates to the original aio mac):
begetting this, which is another incremental update with the barest whiff of the Ives esthetic to come, and which continues to sport floppy drives and the usual complement of ports:
Followed by this, which is radically different, not just in design, but in what it leaves out (floppy, ports), those things being a hallmark of the Jobs/Ives era to come:
Of course, when it comes to computers, it's always possible to say that two are similar in that they have a screen and run an OS and whatnot, but clearly there is a giant leap forward with the iMac. Do anyone think that Apple was going to put itself back on the map with another incremental update to the PowerMac G3 AIO? And isn't it in the specific details that Jobs and Ives have distinguished themselves and Apple? I mean, we can say that someone other than Jobs got the ball rolling on laptops, but the specific laptops that came out of Cupertino once Jobs was back in charge are part of what put Apple back on the map.
To me the point of contention seems to be what emphasis we put on various design elements as being the real break with the past and commencing the revolution of the new Apple.
Of course, when it comes to computers, it's always possible to say that two are similar in that they have a screen and run an OS and whatnot, but clearly there is a giant leap forward with the iMac. Do anyone think that Apple was going to put itself back on the map with another incremental update to the PowerMac G3 AIO? And isn't it in the specific details that Jobs and Ives have distinguished themselves and Apple? I mean, we can say that someone other than Jobs got the ball rolling on laptops, but the specific laptops that came out of Cupertino once Jobs was back in charge are part of what put Apple back on the map.
Actually, the point of contention (if you're talking about my discussion with that other person) is not that at all... or at least it isn't in my eyes.
What I'm saying is that Amelio was right in saying that the bulk of the work for the iMac was done on his watch. The guts and the case were designed while he was in charge. He hadn't even decided if he wasn't going to use it. [on edit: I read an article that said that Amelio was shown a translucent case designed by Ive but he couldn't decide whether to use it or not - and, I'm sorry, I didn't link it but will find it again if necessary] At that point Steve took over and there was absolutely no doubt in his mind where he wanted to go.
There was absolutely no discussion about design or its attributes in my comments.
But some things about the iMac are not so new.
The all-in-one monitor and computer design is an Apple hallmark, going back to the first Macintosh in 1984, Ives said. When interim Chief Executive Officer Steve Jobs approached the design team one year ago to talk about building what would become the iMac, he was clear he wanted to build on this historic form while at the same time updating it, Ives said. When Apple was struggling with its product strategy several years ago, the machines were becoming more and more conservative and in line with the "beige box" status quo, which wasn't Apple's philosophy, Ives said.
"One thing most people don't know is that Steve Jobs is an exceptional designer," he said. Jobs was involved throughout iMac's entire design life cycle, which Ives called "a vigorous intellectual process." A small team of designers worked like maniacs for several months to come up with the design, which was largely informed by what consumers wanted, he said.
First, people wanted a smaller PC that was easy to pick up and move; this was especially true in Europe and Asia where living spaces are smaller, Ives said. Ives put a large handle on the back "that invites people to pick it up and touch it," he said. Second, they wanted ease of use, fewer cables to connect and no complicated documentation to read when setting up the machine.
"We tried to do things in a simple, elegant way," Ives said. Most computer makers don't realize how afraid many people are of computers; Apple wanted the iMac to be "approachable," he said. The idea that the iMac comes in one box, has clear plastic that catches the light and shows its changing nature and has a shape that "looks like it just arrived" all contribute to the overall approachability and appeal of the machine, Ives said.
He is also heading up the design team responsible for the upcoming portable consumer Macintosh due out in mid-1999, but Ives wouldn't give any hints about how it may look. Because iMac's design was such a departure from the traditional PC, people are expecting something revolutionary for the portable version as well, he said.
"Expectation is extraordinarily high, it's a bit scary," Ives admitted.
Found in this article:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/8117/...hind_imac.html
Amelio might have been at the helm and the guts may have been there but it was Jobs and Ive all the way for the iMac casing design.
(Interesting note... and the more I read the more I remember the entire scenario... Jobs almost axed Ives because Jobs axed damn near everyone. Jobs was actually looking around for a design head... I remember that well because we used to joke about Macs looking like sports cars (one of the design people he was looking at was a car designer).
What I'm saying is that Amelio was right in saying that the bulk of the work for the iMac was done on his watch. The guts and the case were designed while he was in charge. He hadn't even decided if he wasn't going to use it. At that point Steve took over and there was absolutely no doubt in his mind where he wanted to go.
Feel free to provide evidence that the guts and the case of the iMac were done before Amelio left. (hint: that monstrosity you provided is not an iMac).
And when you get through with that, why don't you tell us why it took over a year after Amelio's departure for the product to be launched if the guts and the case were already done?
You're playing pretty fast and loose with the facts.
Actually, the point of contention (if you're talking about my discussion with that other person) is not that at all... or at least it isn't in my eyes.
What I'm saying is that Amelio was right in saying that the bulk of the work for the iMac was done on his watch. The guts and the case were designed while he was in charge. He hadn't even decided if he wasn't going to use it. At that point Steve took over and there was absolutely no doubt in his mind where he wanted to go.
There was absolutely no discussion about design or its attributes in my comments.
Huh. Because it looks like to me that posts 130 on explicitly are talking about what I'm talking about-- with you maintaining that the G3 AIO represents the better part of the journey to the iMac, and jragosta countering that it was really just more of the same, with the actual iMac being a decisive break.
Now I see that you've edited your post to say that the iMac case was designed under Amelio-- do you have a link about that?
At any rate, repeating that "the guts" had been done under Amelio doesn't really mean anything-- the guts were never what was radical about the iMac. It was an overall idea (again, a hallmark of the Jobs/Ives era) of a fun, all in one, insanely easy to set up computer "for the rest of us", in a callback to the original Mac mandate.
To achieve that Jobs axed legacy ports and floppies (much to the horror of the pundits and bashers of the day) so that he could have Jeff Goldblum giggle about there being no third step. Everything about the iMac as released under Jobs reinforced that idea-- not threatening, not bristling with external hardware or cables, ready to go out of the box, easy to carry around, just an ethernet and powercord connection away from being online. Even the "i" in "iMac" was initially taken to mean "internet mac"-- a forward looking net appliance that derived most of its value from being connected to the web, so that it didn't need a bunch of legacy cruft.
I'm suspicious about how far the case design got under Amelio, but I'm willing to bet that he'd never have gone for axing the floppy and ports-- which arguably was the opening shot of the new Jobs era of simplification.
Feel free to provide evidence that the guts and the case of the iMac were done before Amelio left. (hint: that monstrosity you provided is not an iMac).
And when you get through with that, why don't you tell us why it took over a year after Amelio's departure for the product to be launched if the guts and the case were already done?
You're playing pretty fast and loose with the facts.
Hmmmm... I never ever saw you post any "facts", so it's pretty hard to play fast and loose with something that isn't there. I had to find the facts for myself.
There were plenty of articles that stated that Amelio was the push for the iMac case [on edit: or that Amelio was there when the translucent case was presented but couldn't decide if he should use it] but I finally found one that quoted Ive himself... which can't be any clearer (post 134).
So don't go patting yourself on the back... anything you were saying was just made up as you went along... no history whatsoever... no links... nothing... but are you man enough to admit that?
http://www.kevinomura.com/macs/g3aio/index.html The G3 AIO even had a translucent back. Sadly... it never made it beyond the US education market.
Fugly... Man, I am glad I never saw one of those -- I may never have bought an iMac.
I honestly believe that the majority of the work was done under Amelio's watch but Steve, along with Ive, showed what could be done with that beige box... something that could never have been envisioned by Amelio.
You certainly can see a likeness -- just add USB, remove 2 floppy drives and the A/V I/O... some svelte packaging...
My daughter and her family bought the Snow model -- her 3-year-old son just loved shoving coins into the CD slot...
...It seems, at least to him, that there was a step 3!
Huh. Because it looks like to me that posts 130 on explicitly are talking about what I'm talking about-- with you maintaining that the G3 AIO represents the better part of the journey to the iMac, and jragosta countering that it was really just more of the same, with the actual iMac being a decisive break.
Now I see that you've edited your post to say that the iMac case was designed under Amelio-- do you have a link about that?
At any rate, repeating that "the guts" had been done under Amelio doesn't really mean anything-- the guts were never what was radical about the iMac. It was an overall idea (again, a hallmark of the Jobs/Ives era) of a fun, all in one, insanely easy to set up computer "for the rest of us", in a callback to the original Mac mandate.
To achieve that Jobs axed legacy ports and floppies (much to the horror of the pundits and bashers of the day) so that he could have Jeff Goldblum giggle about there being no third step. Everything about the iMac as released under Jobs reinforced that idea-- not threatening, not bristling with external hardware or cables, ready to go out of the box, easy to carry around, just an ethernet and powercord connection away from being online. Even the "i" in "iMac" was initially taken to mean "internet mac"-- a forward looking net appliance that derived most of its value from being connected to the web, so that it didn't need a bunch of legacy cruft.
I'm suspicious about how far the case design got under Amelio, but I'm willing to bet that he'd never have gone for axing the floppy and ports-- which arguably was the opening shot of the new Jobs era of simplification.
I had read 2 articles that stated that Amelio was in the boardroom with Jobs when Ives and the design team showed the translucent case (strange thing... some articles said that Ives became the head of design under Amelio in 96 and others say that happened in 97 under Jobs. Regardless... I found the article with the quote from Ives that clarifies the whole thing.
Interesting note... 43% of the buyers of the first iMac were new Mac users... and Apple sold 800,000 of them in the first 5 months. It makes me wonder how many Apple would have sold had they put in an extra drive bay under the cd tray... considering that was the biggest bitch at the time. I know I held back for 2 years and then bought the grey special edition model... I wasn't sure how the iMac was going to fly when it was introduced.
Fri, Aug 26, 2011 close of market:
AAPL Market Value of Listed Security
XOM Market Value of Listed Security
I would call that a pretty well executed transition!
Well done Apple -- things like this don't just happen!
Fugly... Man, I am glad I never saw one of those -- I may never have bought an iMac.
You certainly can see a likeness -- just add USB, remove 2 floppy drives and the A/V I/O... some svelte packaging...
My daughter and her family bought the Snow model -- her 3-year-old son just loved shoving coins into the CD slot...
...It seems, at least to him, that there was a step 3!
Well, Dick... we may have been wrong about Amelio's contribution but at least we got to the bottom of it. ... and, by the way, I would have bought one of those... or I would have bought an iMac when they first came out... if it just would have had a zip drive.
Reading through all of the articles made me remember how much I had forgotten... from the early 80s right up until around 2001 I used to read every thing I could find about Apple... I had so many books on the subject that I think I worried my Wife.