when you use someone else's os, and your competitor has so much better prices in their supply chain (and bulk of course), so you stick components someone else made but are inferior and more expensive, to an os someone else makes, then WHAT THE F. DO WE NEED YOU FOR SONY? It's too late to get off your asses and innovate now...
and not to tout my own horn, but others and myself, said this from day 1 when the ipad's pricing was announced.
They could of course sell them at a loss to advance os penetration, but whose os? Google's.... Hp should have managed palm better, they are collosal morons, I d sell my devices at a loss as they are doing now, add some design flair to them, be upfornt about it, and start getting some momentum for my app store, so I could recoup the losses there as quickly as I could. Hell, I d give touchpads away to developers. It's not a great way to do it, but it's the only way to get something out of this market from apple. Where they too stupid to think of this. Apparently so. Now they are selling at a loss a device that has obsolete written all over it because they are discontinuing it.
Webos is a good os, I would take it over android anyday, just get a dedicated developer team from palm and your guys, stand behind it, keep developing and refining it, keep issuing advice and training for developers, sell at a loss your tablets to achieve some market penetration (you ll get that loss back anyway from a decent app store in the future) for a year or two, because you CANNOT period compete in prices nor in the apple app store wealth, and slowly and carve yourself a nice niche of 10% of the market.
Other ideas for a contender with webos:
You are free from google so find a model to share the ad profits with actual content providers as opposed to google search. Get bing or yahoo on the boat in some way.
Get a good in house app development team and make targeted in house apps where there seem to be niches to the apple app store.
Spent less money paying off ads and pundits on the web and more money to fund small developers. Hell hp has money, they ll be losing 100 million in their ineptness, take 1 million and fund young developers for your platform.
Be bold, fuck flash as a spec sheet option, embrace html5, and save your battery life.
Go to windows, there's no one else you can go to, get a team to work with them to integrate your product to xp, 7, an 8 via it's own interface, it doesn't have to be itunes, make it simple and workable.
Apparently out of all these hp chose to just stick the effing os in a hardware box, as they 've been doing all along, with absolutely no foresight, sad to see people of such idiocy managing such colossal capital.
This whole idea you propose, give it away, make it free, spend more money developing infrastructure, buy developers ... you will just spend, spend, spend. Businesses survive and become successful making profit. No profit, no business. You think you can survive with this approach. This makes no sense at all. FWIW
IMO, Amazon is the only company with even a chance of effectively competing against Apple in Tablets, but their first offering has to be rock solid. No cheap buttons that get mushy after a month or two of light use, etc. If they can do that, then I think they've got a chance. They've spent years cultivating an online presence that virtually everyone already has a login for, they've more or less figured out mobile video, music, and ebook delivery, recently added cloud storage and even a curated App Store. They're the only ones (other than Apple) that can offer a full service package.
or should everyone avoid violating Apples design patent and make circular or triangular tablets...to be safe...?
You completely missed the point as usual. the whole article is about a new Sony tablet that is quite completely different from the iPad yet still a practical and mostly rectangular design. It is possible to make all kinds of tablet designs that while similar are not copies of Apple's design. Sony proves it here, which adds evidence to the argument that Samsung has indeed copied the iPad. The touchpad copies the iPad a lot also, but it's already history.
Samsung should learn from Sony, you innovate by creating your own designs, not by blatantly stealing the work of others.
I'm liking the Wedge... Pity Android doesn't give me anything I can't do right now. Maybe if it had PS3 graphics and could play PS3 games like Deus Ex...
IMO, Amazon is the only company with even a chance of effectively competing against Apple in Tablets, but their first offering has to be rock solid. No cheap buttons that get mushy after a month or two of light use, etc. If they can do that, then I think they've got a chance. They've spent years cultivating an online presence that virtually everyone already has a login for, they've more or less figured out mobile video, music, and ebook delivery, recently added cloud storage and even a curated App Store. They're the only ones (other than Apple) that can offer a full service package.
I agree, but Amazon doesn't exactly have a good history of industrial design. They have a history of making plasticky crap with far too many buttons.
I don't know why Amazon doesn't buy WebOS and a good design house. They could seriously offer Apple some problems with their services and some slick hardware. I don't think they would ever win though, as they would always be seen as "evil" next to Apple. It's also likely that they have no intentions of making a competitor to iPad, but simply to provide a crappy tablet in the hand as a loss leader and a hook for their retail organisation.
Their whole approach is anti-customer and their goal is to shovel as much crap out the door at the highest rate of sales they can achieve. They are more like a big-box retailer relative to Apple's high end boutique. Or in another way, an Amazon tablet will likely feel more like reading a tabloid newspaper full of low brow advertisements compared to Apple's high end glossy magazine.
Hardware side competition needs to go where Apple wont, the ipad is not flawless. They should market anti-glare and different screen sizes. There are tons on 7” and 10” tablets but no 13”, 15” offering. A 15” widescreen tablet would be nice. The “fold in 2” idea was suppose to be done by Microsoft but they didn’t. I think it’s a good idea.
On the software side the only one having a chance is Amazon, which could come up with a complete ecosystem. The Amazon tablets absolutely need to have anti-glare. An optional model that mimic a book and folds in 2 could be a nice offering since people already associate Amazon with digital books. Both sides need to be has thin has possible and i would make it appear exactly has a book with an "Amazon cover".
Hardware side competition needs to go where Apple wont, the ipad is not flawless. They should market anti-glare and different screen sizes. There are tons on 7? and 10? tablets but no 13?, 15? offering. A 15? widescreen tablet would be nice. The ?fold in 2? idea was suppose to be done by Microsoft but they didn?t. I think it?s a good idea.
On the software side the only one having a chance is Amazon, which could come up with a complete ecosystem. The Amazon tablets absolutely need to have anti-glare. An optional model that mimic a book and folds in 2 could be a nice offering since people already associate Amazon with digital books. Both sides need to be has thin has possible.
15" seems like that'll be awfully heavy. Sure you can hit every size between 5" and 17", but how many would you actually sell?
If you can't sell 10", how many 15" models would you move? Not enough, I think.
"These devices truly represent the best of everything Sony has to offer," Sony Senior Vice President Mike Lucas said. "From hardware to software and services, Sony Tablet devices embody all our innovations rolled into one."
Oh they shouldn't have said this! Really shows how lost they are!
Most of these companies still haven't figured out what's going on.
Most - both TV/electronics makers and PC makers - are hanging on to their old structured power.
They don't realize their time is coming to an end. This has been in the making for so many years it's amazing none of these CEOs can see it - many CEOs are just suits/executives, no visionaries. No strategists either!
This is a revolution and it's name is convergence. Perhaps that's why Apple has been delaying coming up with any kind of TV because then these very thick and very much set in their ways CEOs will eventually see it. Who knows, maybe not. As an example, the 8MP camera equipped iPhone or even Android smartphones will be killing most of the camera market.
It is inevitable for any company, whatever it is, to follow the natural convergence of technology. This means that very few companies will survive this wave, only the one's who get it and surft it. Apple is the one doing it, the only one.
Computing is replacing electronics, period. Computing involves software and - now it's obvious but still they don't get it - an OS. So any of these companies should have been working on their own OS for the last 10 years in order to have a chance. But they didn't, they clung on to Microsoft and this is where MS became the biggest blessing for Apple, they created dependency on hardware manufacturers. And dumbness too.
Google's dream is to become Microsoft of the modern era. But times have changed, microsoft knows it and married with Nokia. It won't work.
Because Apple's "minimalist" vision of taking only the profitable % of the market, there's a chance for another player. May end up to be Microsoft again. Who knows, maybe Intel have something to say.
Once I said Apple should buy Sony out. Now I don't. No need for that. If needed Apple will join in with a particular manufacturer or buy it out. But they prefer and excelled developing another model where they join in with several manufacturers keeping prices down and exhausting supply for others.
Apple will turn into a huge player, with many appliances in many markets. Fridges with iOS, anyone?
Honestly, do you expect them to make oval tablets?
You're bitching that it's a rectangle touchscreen with rounded corners
Did you not look at the Sony tablet? It's footprint is a rectangle. He's praising Sony for their design and clearly stating you can have an typical display without blatantly copying Apple.
when you use someone else's os, and your competitor has so much better prices in their supply chain (and bulk of course), so you stick components someone else made...
Exactly how many manufacturing plants does Apple own?
(hint: I'm pretty sure the number is less than 1)
All the parts that go into Apple products are made by someone else. All the products Apple sells are assembled by someone else.
I agree, but Amazon doesn't exactly have a good history of industrial design. They have a history of making plasticky crap with far too many buttons.
...
I don't know why Amazon doesn't buy WebOS and a good design house.
...
Their whole approach is anti-customer and their goal is to shovel as much crap out the door at the highest rate of sales they can achieve.
That's pretty much what I was thinking. Amazon was firs/early to market with ebook readers, so they could get away with cutting some corners and learning as they went. They're late to the tablet game though, so people won't be so forgiving if they screw it up. No cheap components, and the last thing I want when I turn on my tablet is a popup saying, "I see you visited www.girlsnextdoor.com, perhaps you would also be interested in some of these other websites..."
IMO, Amazon is the only company with even a chance of effectively competing against Apple in Tablets, but their first offering has to be rock solid. No cheap buttons that get mushy after a month or two of light use, etc. If they can do that, then I think they've got a chance. They've spent years cultivating an online presence that virtually everyone already has a login for, they've more or less figured out mobile video, music, and ebook delivery, recently added cloud storage and even a curated App Store. They're the only ones (other than Apple) that can offer a full service package.
I seriously doubt that. Amazon makes its money selling books and not hardware. Very different business models. Amazon sells the kindle at a huge loss but makes up with the sale of books.
I see that advantage disappearing soon. as libraries start to offer downloads. For example the local library has over 5000 books and growing in their digital library. I can download one for 3 weeks read and it then goes "poof" and I download the next one.
I actually see Amazon dropping Kindle and hopefully they will not waste their shareholders money by trying to get into the tablet market.
Well, if you look at how tablets looked before the iPad and what Apple did, there was some room for design. They just have to work at it.
and? full touch was only a concept before apple changed the game and made it a reality (yes others thought about and were working on full touch devices before apple). now that the game is changed such minimalistic designs are not only possible but borderline necessary.
should companies add useless bells and whistles to hardware to avoid violating apple's overly minimalistic design patent? no.
there are more than enough differences between the iPad, the Tab, the Xoom, etc despite the similar minimalist designs.
Sony either needs to either just give up or hire some visionaries. Their Minidisks was a dud in the us, their digital music ATRAC walkmans never took off, Mylo was obsolete because the iPhone and iPod touch can do everything those things can do but better, and their online music portal service CONNECT sucked.
Comments
when you use someone else's os, and your competitor has so much better prices in their supply chain (and bulk of course), so you stick components someone else made but are inferior and more expensive, to an os someone else makes, then WHAT THE F. DO WE NEED YOU FOR SONY? It's too late to get off your asses and innovate now...
and not to tout my own horn, but others and myself, said this from day 1 when the ipad's pricing was announced.
They could of course sell them at a loss to advance os penetration, but whose os? Google's.... Hp should have managed palm better, they are collosal morons, I d sell my devices at a loss as they are doing now, add some design flair to them, be upfornt about it, and start getting some momentum for my app store, so I could recoup the losses there as quickly as I could. Hell, I d give touchpads away to developers. It's not a great way to do it, but it's the only way to get something out of this market from apple. Where they too stupid to think of this. Apparently so. Now they are selling at a loss a device that has obsolete written all over it because they are discontinuing it.
Webos is a good os, I would take it over android anyday, just get a dedicated developer team from palm and your guys, stand behind it, keep developing and refining it, keep issuing advice and training for developers, sell at a loss your tablets to achieve some market penetration (you ll get that loss back anyway from a decent app store in the future) for a year or two, because you CANNOT period compete in prices nor in the apple app store wealth, and slowly and carve yourself a nice niche of 10% of the market.
Other ideas for a contender with webos:
You are free from google so find a model to share the ad profits with actual content providers as opposed to google search. Get bing or yahoo on the boat in some way.
Get a good in house app development team and make targeted in house apps where there seem to be niches to the apple app store.
Spent less money paying off ads and pundits on the web and more money to fund small developers. Hell hp has money, they ll be losing 100 million in their ineptness, take 1 million and fund young developers for your platform.
Be bold, fuck flash as a spec sheet option, embrace html5, and save your battery life.
Go to windows, there's no one else you can go to, get a team to work with them to integrate your product to xp, 7, an 8 via it's own interface, it doesn't have to be itunes, make it simple and workable.
Apparently out of all these hp chose to just stick the effing os in a hardware box, as they 've been doing all along, with absolutely no foresight, sad to see people of such idiocy managing such colossal capital.
This whole idea you propose, give it away, make it free, spend more money developing infrastructure, buy developers ... you will just spend, spend, spend. Businesses survive and become successful making profit. No profit, no business. You think you can survive with this approach. This makes no sense at all. FWIW
... bloggers questioned the high price and quality of the devices ...
Because NOBODY likes high quality in a high price device. Wait. What?!?
a rounded rectangular tablet...
or should everyone avoid violating Apples design patent and make circular or triangular tablets...to be safe...?
You completely missed the point as usual. the whole article is about a new Sony tablet that is quite completely different from the iPad yet still a practical and mostly rectangular design. It is possible to make all kinds of tablet designs that while similar are not copies of Apple's design. Sony proves it here, which adds evidence to the argument that Samsung has indeed copied the iPad. The touchpad copies the iPad a lot also, but it's already history.
Samsung should learn from Sony, you innovate by creating your own designs, not by blatantly stealing the work of others.
I'm liking the Wedge... Pity Android doesn't give me anything I can't do right now. Maybe if it had PS3 graphics and could play PS3 games like Deus Ex...
IMO, Amazon is the only company with even a chance of effectively competing against Apple in Tablets, but their first offering has to be rock solid. No cheap buttons that get mushy after a month or two of light use, etc. If they can do that, then I think they've got a chance. They've spent years cultivating an online presence that virtually everyone already has a login for, they've more or less figured out mobile video, music, and ebook delivery, recently added cloud storage and even a curated App Store. They're the only ones (other than Apple) that can offer a full service package.
I agree, but Amazon doesn't exactly have a good history of industrial design. They have a history of making plasticky crap with far too many buttons.
I don't know why Amazon doesn't buy WebOS and a good design house. They could seriously offer Apple some problems with their services and some slick hardware. I don't think they would ever win though, as they would always be seen as "evil" next to Apple. It's also likely that they have no intentions of making a competitor to iPad, but simply to provide a crappy tablet in the hand as a loss leader and a hook for their retail organisation.
Their whole approach is anti-customer and their goal is to shovel as much crap out the door at the highest rate of sales they can achieve. They are more like a big-box retailer relative to Apple's high end boutique. Or in another way, an Amazon tablet will likely feel more like reading a tabloid newspaper full of low brow advertisements compared to Apple's high end glossy magazine.
On the software side the only one having a chance is Amazon, which could come up with a complete ecosystem. The Amazon tablets absolutely need to have anti-glare. An optional model that mimic a book and folds in 2 could be a nice offering since people already associate Amazon with digital books. Both sides need to be has thin has possible and i would make it appear exactly has a book with an "Amazon cover".
a rounded rectangular tablet...
or should everyone avoid violating Apples design patent and make circular or triangular tablets...to be safe...?
Well, if you look at how tablets looked before the iPad and what Apple did, there was some room for design. They just have to work at it.
Hardware side competition needs to go where Apple wont, the ipad is not flawless. They should market anti-glare and different screen sizes. There are tons on 7? and 10? tablets but no 13?, 15? offering. A 15? widescreen tablet would be nice. The ?fold in 2? idea was suppose to be done by Microsoft but they didn?t. I think it?s a good idea.
On the software side the only one having a chance is Amazon, which could come up with a complete ecosystem. The Amazon tablets absolutely need to have anti-glare. An optional model that mimic a book and folds in 2 could be a nice offering since people already associate Amazon with digital books. Both sides need to be has thin has possible.
15" seems like that'll be awfully heavy. Sure you can hit every size between 5" and 17", but how many would you actually sell?
If you can't sell 10", how many 15" models would you move? Not enough, I think.
"These devices truly represent the best of everything Sony has to offer," Sony Senior Vice President Mike Lucas said. "From hardware to software and services, Sony Tablet devices embody all our innovations rolled into one."
Oh they shouldn't have said this! Really shows how lost they are!
Most of these companies still haven't figured out what's going on.
Most - both TV/electronics makers and PC makers - are hanging on to their old structured power.
They don't realize their time is coming to an end. This has been in the making for so many years it's amazing none of these CEOs can see it - many CEOs are just suits/executives, no visionaries. No strategists either!
This is a revolution and it's name is convergence. Perhaps that's why Apple has been delaying coming up with any kind of TV because then these very thick and very much set in their ways CEOs will eventually see it. Who knows, maybe not. As an example, the 8MP camera equipped iPhone or even Android smartphones will be killing most of the camera market.
It is inevitable for any company, whatever it is, to follow the natural convergence of technology. This means that very few companies will survive this wave, only the one's who get it and surft it. Apple is the one doing it, the only one.
Computing is replacing electronics, period. Computing involves software and - now it's obvious but still they don't get it - an OS. So any of these companies should have been working on their own OS for the last 10 years in order to have a chance. But they didn't, they clung on to Microsoft and this is where MS became the biggest blessing for Apple, they created dependency on hardware manufacturers. And dumbness too.
Google's dream is to become Microsoft of the modern era. But times have changed, microsoft knows it and married with Nokia. It won't work.
Because Apple's "minimalist" vision of taking only the profitable % of the market, there's a chance for another player. May end up to be Microsoft again. Who knows, maybe Intel have something to say.
Once I said Apple should buy Sony out. Now I don't. No need for that. If needed Apple will join in with a particular manufacturer or buy it out. But they prefer and excelled developing another model where they join in with several manufacturers keeping prices down and exhausting supply for others.
Apple will turn into a huge player, with many appliances in many markets. Fridges with iOS, anyone?
Samsung should learn from Sony, you innovate by creating your own designs, not by blatantly stealing the work of others.
Honestly, do you expect them to make oval tablets?
You're bitching that it's a rectangle touchscreen with rounded corners
I predict (going out on a limb here) that it will do as well as Sony's MP3 players that compete with iPods.
Speaking of?
Honestly, do you expect them to make oval tablets?
You're bitching that it's a rectangle touchscreen with rounded corners
Did you not look at the Sony tablet? It's footprint is a rectangle. He's praising Sony for their design and clearly stating you can have an typical display without blatantly copying Apple.
when you use someone else's os, and your competitor has so much better prices in their supply chain (and bulk of course), so you stick components someone else made...
Exactly how many manufacturing plants does Apple own?
(hint: I'm pretty sure the number is less than 1)
All the parts that go into Apple products are made by someone else. All the products Apple sells are assembled by someone else.
I went over to Sony's site last night to check out the larger tablet. Meh! Nothing but the same old "ME TOO" stance.
That trash will be off the shelf before the summer os 2012.
I agree, but Amazon doesn't exactly have a good history of industrial design. They have a history of making plasticky crap with far too many buttons.
...
I don't know why Amazon doesn't buy WebOS and a good design house.
...
Their whole approach is anti-customer and their goal is to shovel as much crap out the door at the highest rate of sales they can achieve.
That's pretty much what I was thinking. Amazon was firs/early to market with ebook readers, so they could get away with cutting some corners and learning as they went. They're late to the tablet game though, so people won't be so forgiving if they screw it up. No cheap components, and the last thing I want when I turn on my tablet is a popup saying, "I see you visited www.girlsnextdoor.com, perhaps you would also be interested in some of these other websites..."
IMO, Amazon is the only company with even a chance of effectively competing against Apple in Tablets, but their first offering has to be rock solid. No cheap buttons that get mushy after a month or two of light use, etc. If they can do that, then I think they've got a chance. They've spent years cultivating an online presence that virtually everyone already has a login for, they've more or less figured out mobile video, music, and ebook delivery, recently added cloud storage and even a curated App Store. They're the only ones (other than Apple) that can offer a full service package.
I seriously doubt that. Amazon makes its money selling books and not hardware. Very different business models. Amazon sells the kindle at a huge loss but makes up with the sale of books.
I see that advantage disappearing soon. as libraries start to offer downloads. For example the local library has over 5000 books and growing in their digital library. I can download one for 3 weeks read and it then goes "poof" and I download the next one.
I actually see Amazon dropping Kindle and hopefully they will not waste their shareholders money by trying to get into the tablet market.
Well, if you look at how tablets looked before the iPad and what Apple did, there was some room for design. They just have to work at it.
and? full touch was only a concept before apple changed the game and made it a reality (yes others thought about and were working on full touch devices before apple). now that the game is changed such minimalistic designs are not only possible but borderline necessary.
should companies add useless bells and whistles to hardware to avoid violating apple's overly minimalistic design patent? no.
there are more than enough differences between the iPad, the Tab, the Xoom, etc despite the similar minimalist designs.
a rounded rectangular tablet...
or should everyone avoid violating Apples design patent and make circular or triangular tablets...to be safe...?
This must be tongue-in-cheek. Nobody could be this stupid.
Good for Sony. Honest effort beats creepy copy any day. At least when it comes to honour in effort.