Seriously. The same people always post the same biased crap whenever we get a story like this. "Gatorguy" and "Youarewrong" only exist to troll the boards making contrary posts based on their hatred of Apple, yadda yadda yadda.
What's boring isn't the lawsuit it's the troll comments that always seem to follow.
. . . except I don't hate Apple. I don't approve of some of their tactics, but that's not the same as disliking the company's products.
I've given Apple props a number of times for their support and ecosystem. I've even posed that Google may need to take a cue from Apple and put some controls over Android in place, particularly the possible need for a curated market. The fact you've chosen not to see that I've criticized Google and given props to Apple doesn't mean I haven't.
I think sometimes we all see what we want to see and attack those with a message that might challenge our beliefs before thinking it thru. Personally I take those challenges as a potential learning opportunity. Others may prefer to go thru life with one eye closed.
This particular suit is a bit more important to Apple IMO. The single best selling smartphone there is NOT the iPhone, but Samsung's Galaxy II.
Apple's moving as fast as possible to nip the success of Samsung's Galaxy II in the bud. Sad to see it's thru legal actions rather than delivering a equal/superior product at an equivalent/better price and letting the consumer choose the winner.
You're being blinded by your bias. This case isn't an example of apple moving fast in the court. Samsung filed this one first.
EDIT: Reading between the line from the TechCrunch version of this story, Apple's action in Japan might be prompted by the announcement today of Tab availability, rather than a concern over the Galaxy phones,
Reportedly "Docomo sold 100,000 Galaxy S II in the first three days after release of the handset in July, making it the carrier’s fastest-selling phone ever. Today, Docomo announced the Galaxy Tab (LTE-compatible) for the Japanese market."
Seriously. The same people always post the same biased crap whenever we get a story like this. "Gatorguy" and "Youarewrong" only exist to troll the boards making contrary posts based on their hatred of Apple, yadda yadda yadda.
What's boring isn't the lawsuit it's the troll comments that always seem to follow.
Prof, wasn't it just a day or so ago that you indicated your displeasure with AdHom attacks? I used the word "obtuse" in a reply which you took exception to. Yet claiming my posts are "biased crap" based on "my hatred of Apple" and accusing me of being a troll (all in the same post!) are perfectly acceptable personal attacks?
EDIT: Sorry Professor, but I confused you with another member, Dick Applebaum. Perhaps you have no issue with the use of ad hominem arguments and consider it a fair weapon.
Apple has accused Samsung of copying the look and feel of its highly successful iPad and iPhone devices, and has even gone as far in court filings to refer to Samsung as "the copyist." Samsung has returned fire as well, accusing Apple of violating several patents it owns related to power consumption and 3G data transmission with mobile devices.
Burn! Man I live in the best of times. A few hundred years ago people would have shot each other in a duel for statements like that, and before that there would have been a war between kings. Now I can just discuss this stuff on the forums.
Sorry for kind of unhelpful post, but I really dig these lawsuits. I am learning quite a lot about law along the way.
The only reason anybody would buy one is because they are too poor to buy an iPhone, so they hate Apple because of it.
That's why the devices have a similar cost.. right?
Furthermore, if this WAS the case (people purchased on price) then all of Apple's arguments about Samsung harming their brand/pulling customers away would be invalid since it would be a different market segment. But they're not.
. . . except I don't hate Apple. I don't approve of some of their tactics, but that's not the same as disliking the company's products.
I've given Apple props a number of times for their support and ecosystem. I've even posed that Google may need to take a cue from Apple and put some controls over Android in place, particularly the possible need for a curated market. The fact you've chosen not to see that I've criticized Google and given props to Apple doesn't mean I haven't.
I think sometimes we all see what we want to see and attack those with a message that might challenge our beliefs before thinking it thru. Personally I take those challenges as a potential learning opportunity. Others may prefer to go thru life with one eye closed.
Well you certainly shut him up good. It's amazing how fast the troll and fandroid cards get brought up when a post is not blindly worshipping Apple or Jobs. I own, and enjoy both iOS and Android devices which are unique in their own ways. I'm actually delighted when one platform learns and takes cues from the other. The consumers win at the end.
Now back on topic, these patent wars do nothing except stifling innovation itself and making the lawyers involved filthy rich. I do not object to Apple going after blatant Chinese counterfeits but attempting to bar your competitor's products based on some rounded rectangle and ridiculous "look and feel" patents is just low. As if anyone will actually miss the big ass Samsung logo on the device and mistake it for an Apple one. Doesn't Apple display their products in their own fancy section anyway?
Well you certainly shut him up good. It's amazing how fast the troll and fandroid cards get brought up when a post is not blindly worshipping Apple or Jobs. I own, and enjoy both iOS and Android devices which are unique in their own ways. I'm actually delighted when one platform learns and takes cues from the other. The consumers win at the end.
Now back on topic, these patent wars do nothing except stifling innovation itself and making the lawyers involved filthy rich. I do not object to Apple going after blatant Chinese counterfeits but attempting to bar your competitor's products based on some rounded rectangle and ridiculous "look and feel" patents is just low. As if anyone will actually miss the big ass Samsung logo on the device and mistake it for an Apple one. Doesn't Apple display their products in their own fancy section anyway?
Nice post. It's a tough forum for people that share an openminded philosophy towards tech.
Yes, Apple is waging a patent world war and it's shameful. And anti competitive and stifling to innovation.
This particular suit is a bit more important to Apple IMO. The single best selling smartphone there is NOT the iPhone, but Samsung's Galaxy II.
Apple's moving as fast as possible to nip the success of Samsung's Galaxy II in the bud. Sad to see it's thru legal actions rather than delivering a equal/superior product at an equivalent/better price and letting the consumer choose the winner.
So you are saying it is ok to copy a product as long as you sell it cheaper or if you make part of it a little better. People will then wonder why there are no innovations because why innovate when you can just copy. It is much cheaper and easier to copy than to create a product but then again that doesn't concern you because all you care about is the price.
So you are saying it is ok to copy a product as long as you sell it cheaper or if you make part of it a little better. People will then wonder why there are no innovations because why innovate when you can just copy. It is much cheaper and easier to copy than to create a product but then again that doesn't concern you because all you care about is the price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
I don't see the Galaxy SII as an iPhone clone, and IMHO it would never be mistaken for one when a consumer goes to purchase.
The Samsung device is a significant upgrade in hardware and capabilities to Apple's current product, running an OS with different features and capabilities, on a much larger screen more suited to web-browsing and media consumption than Apple's offering. Sorry, but I don't see the Galaxy II as an iPhone copy. If you hold the two side-by-side yourself I don't think you will either.
If you were really interested in what I "thought" you only had to read ahead to the 8th post.
So you are saying it is ok to copy a product as long as you sell it cheaper or if you make part of it a little better. People will then wonder why there are no innovations because why innovate when you can just copy. It is much cheaper and easier to copy than to create a product but then again that doesn't concern you because all you care about is the price.
how much do you *think* the Galaxy SII goes for?
The most popular Android phones are hardly the cheapest. Especially when new still.
Seriously. The same people always post the same biased crap whenever we get a story like this. "Gatorguy" and "Youarewrong" only exist to troll the boards making contrary posts based on their hatred of Apple, yadda yadda yadda.
What's boring isn't the lawsuit it's the troll comments that always seem to follow.
So if I think a non-Apple company has a great product, I'm a troll? I don't have anything Apple's products, I think they make great stuff. I just don't like them as a company. I understand it's easier for you to call me a troll instead of coming up with a normal response.
I don't like the lawsuit news, that's my personal opinion. If you like them, okay. I'm sure there are more to come.
Nice post. It's a tough forum for people that share an openminded philosophy towards tech.
Yes, Apple is waging a patent world war and it's shameful. And anti competitive and stifling to innovation.
I am so sick of this "stifling innovation" meme that seeps into every comments section on the Internet. The fact of the matter is companies are innovating more now than ever. If innovation was so stifled then why are people buying more smartphones than ever before? If there was no innovation, I would think people would stick with their old phones or buy a dumb phone to not pay carriers an arm and a leg for un-innovative pieces of crap.
I am so sick of this "stifling innovation" meme that seeps into every comments section on the Internet. The fact of the matter is companies are innovating more now than ever. If innovation was so stifled then why are people buying more smartphones than ever before? If there was no innovation, I would think people would stick with their old phones or buy a dumb phone to not pay carriers an arm and a leg for un-innovative pieces of crap.
Bloggers, tech writers, industry experts, and probably even a growing percentage of consumers, are quickly tiring of the highly unusual aggressive patent infringement filings we've seen recently. No matter what your view of how "stifled" innovation may be, there's very little doubt that it's costing every one of us, and perhaps significantly, whenever we buy a smartphone or tablet. You think the costs are just avbsorbed by the licensee? Nope, in all likelihood they just pass those costs on to you and me. How does that benefit consumer's?
Bloggers, tech writers, industry experts, and probably even a growing percentage of consumers, are quickly tiring of the highly unusual aggressive patent infringement filings we've seen recently. No matter what your view of how "stifled" innovation may be, there's very little doubt that it's costing every one of us, and perhaps significantly, whenever we buy a smartphone or tablet. You think the costs are just avbsorbed by the licensee? Nope, in all likelihood they just pass those costs on to you and me. How does that benefit consumer's?
If those parties are quickly tiring of lawsuits then they should express it in a meaningful way and not inaccuracies because innovation is still alive and well.
As for costs, I haven't seen consumers pay increased costs in technology in any meaningful way. In fact, I see prices going down.
I am so sick of this "stifling innovation" meme that seeps into every comments section on the Internet. The fact of the matter is companies are innovating more now than ever. If innovation was so stifled then why are people buying more smartphones than ever before? If there was no innovation, I would think people would stick with their old phones or buy a dumb phone to not pay carriers an arm and a leg for un-innovative pieces of crap.
Two totally different arguments.
The lawsuit problem makes it virtually IMPOSSIBLE for a new company to enter the market (apple wasn't a new company, I'm talking startup). It's causing developers to pull their apps from US markets.
Apple might still be patenting thousands of ideas like never before, but the idea that someone "new" could break into the market is an impossibility. There is NO WAY for them to pay all the required patents and still make something profitable. It would also be impossible for them to make something that didn't violate those patents because most patents are left intentionally vague and companies use them as weapons (offensively or defensively) not as ways to "profit" from innovation.
To design a smartphone, you'll violate over a quarter million patents. Say there is someone today who created the best OS ever, and the best design ever for his product. In todays market, he'd never see it to market, or if he did, he'd be sued into oblivion the second his numbers went green. His only hope would be to get bought up by an existing company that would try fitting his "vision" into their inertia.
That's not "more innovation than ever"
And people are buying smartphones because the web is useful on them, and you can actually do things on them other than email. That WAS an innovation, but that was 4 years ago
If those parties are quickly tiring of lawsuits then they should express it in a meaningful way and not inaccuracies because innovation is still alive and well.
As for costs, I haven't seen consumers pay increased costs in technology in any meaningful way. In fact, I see prices going down.
Because carriers are subsidizing devices more than ever before and stuffing as much bloatware onto them as they can, making it easier and easier to go over your usage. Prices are increasing.
There's two ways to increase the profitability of a candy bar:
Comments
Said the troll.
Seriously. The same people always post the same biased crap whenever we get a story like this. "Gatorguy" and "Youarewrong" only exist to troll the boards making contrary posts based on their hatred of Apple, yadda yadda yadda.
What's boring isn't the lawsuit it's the troll comments that always seem to follow.
. . . except I don't hate Apple. I don't approve of some of their tactics, but that's not the same as disliking the company's products.
I've given Apple props a number of times for their support and ecosystem. I've even posed that Google may need to take a cue from Apple and put some controls over Android in place, particularly the possible need for a curated market. The fact you've chosen not to see that I've criticized Google and given props to Apple doesn't mean I haven't.
I think sometimes we all see what we want to see and attack those with a message that might challenge our beliefs before thinking it thru. Personally I take those challenges as a potential learning opportunity. Others may prefer to go thru life with one eye closed.
This particular suit is a bit more important to Apple IMO. The single best selling smartphone there is NOT the iPhone, but Samsung's Galaxy II.
Apple's moving as fast as possible to nip the success of Samsung's Galaxy II in the bud. Sad to see it's thru legal actions rather than delivering a equal/superior product at an equivalent/better price and letting the consumer choose the winner.
You're being blinded by your bias. This case isn't an example of apple moving fast in the court. Samsung filed this one first.
You're being blinded by your bias. This case isn't an example of apple moving fast in the court. Samsung filed this one first.
Is this the story you're referring to, from back in April?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...73L0DG20110422
EDIT: Reading between the line from the TechCrunch version of this story, Apple's action in Japan might be prompted by the announcement today of Tab availability, rather than a concern over the Galaxy phones,
Reportedly "Docomo sold 100,000 Galaxy S II in the first three days after release of the handset in July, making it the carrier’s fastest-selling phone ever. Today, Docomo announced the Galaxy Tab (LTE-compatible) for the Japanese market."
http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/08/ove...sung-in-japan/
Said the troll.
Seriously. The same people always post the same biased crap whenever we get a story like this. "Gatorguy" and "Youarewrong" only exist to troll the boards making contrary posts based on their hatred of Apple, yadda yadda yadda.
What's boring isn't the lawsuit it's the troll comments that always seem to follow.
Prof, wasn't it just a day or so ago that you indicated your displeasure with AdHom attacks? I used the word "obtuse" in a reply which you took exception to. Yet claiming my posts are "biased crap" based on "my hatred of Apple" and accusing me of being a troll (all in the same post!) are perfectly acceptable personal attacks?
EDIT: Sorry Professor, but I confused you with another member, Dick Applebaum. Perhaps you have no issue with the use of ad hominem arguments and consider it a fair weapon.
Apple has accused Samsung of copying the look and feel of its highly successful iPad and iPhone devices, and has even gone as far in court filings to refer to Samsung as "the copyist." Samsung has returned fire as well, accusing Apple of violating several patents it owns related to power consumption and 3G data transmission with mobile devices.
Burn! Man I live in the best of times. A few hundred years ago people would have shot each other in a duel for statements like that, and before that there would have been a war between kings. Now I can just discuss this stuff on the forums.
Sorry for kind of unhelpful post, but I really dig these lawsuits. I am learning quite a lot about law along the way.
The only reason anybody would buy one is because they are too poor to buy an iPhone, so they hate Apple because of it.
That's why the devices have a similar cost.. right?
Furthermore, if this WAS the case (people purchased on price) then all of Apple's arguments about Samsung harming their brand/pulling customers away would be invalid since it would be a different market segment. But they're not.
. . . except I don't hate Apple. I don't approve of some of their tactics, but that's not the same as disliking the company's products.
I've given Apple props a number of times for their support and ecosystem. I've even posed that Google may need to take a cue from Apple and put some controls over Android in place, particularly the possible need for a curated market. The fact you've chosen not to see that I've criticized Google and given props to Apple doesn't mean I haven't.
I think sometimes we all see what we want to see and attack those with a message that might challenge our beliefs before thinking it thru. Personally I take those challenges as a potential learning opportunity. Others may prefer to go thru life with one eye closed.
Well you certainly shut him up good. It's amazing how fast the troll and fandroid cards get brought up when a post is not blindly worshipping Apple or Jobs. I own, and enjoy both iOS and Android devices which are unique in their own ways. I'm actually delighted when one platform learns and takes cues from the other. The consumers win at the end.
Now back on topic, these patent wars do nothing except stifling innovation itself and making the lawyers involved filthy rich. I do not object to Apple going after blatant Chinese counterfeits but attempting to bar your competitor's products based on some rounded rectangle and ridiculous "look and feel" patents is just low. As if anyone will actually miss the big ass Samsung logo on the device and mistake it for an Apple one. Doesn't Apple display their products in their own fancy section anyway?
Well you certainly shut him up good. It's amazing how fast the troll and fandroid cards get brought up when a post is not blindly worshipping Apple or Jobs. I own, and enjoy both iOS and Android devices which are unique in their own ways. I'm actually delighted when one platform learns and takes cues from the other. The consumers win at the end.
Now back on topic, these patent wars do nothing except stifling innovation itself and making the lawyers involved filthy rich. I do not object to Apple going after blatant Chinese counterfeits but attempting to bar your competitor's products based on some rounded rectangle and ridiculous "look and feel" patents is just low. As if anyone will actually miss the big ass Samsung logo on the device and mistake it for an Apple one. Doesn't Apple display their products in their own fancy section anyway?
Nice post. It's a tough forum for people that share an openminded philosophy towards tech.
Yes, Apple is waging a patent world war and it's shameful. And anti competitive and stifling to innovation.
And anti copying and stifling to thieves who don't want to bother with innovation.
Fixed your post for you.
Fixed your post for you.
This particular suit is a bit more important to Apple IMO. The single best selling smartphone there is NOT the iPhone, but Samsung's Galaxy II.
Apple's moving as fast as possible to nip the success of Samsung's Galaxy II in the bud. Sad to see it's thru legal actions rather than delivering a equal/superior product at an equivalent/better price and letting the consumer choose the winner.
So you are saying it is ok to copy a product as long as you sell it cheaper or if you make part of it a little better. People will then wonder why there are no innovations because why innovate when you can just copy. It is much cheaper and easier to copy than to create a product but then again that doesn't concern you because all you care about is the price.
So you are saying it is ok to copy a product as long as you sell it cheaper or if you make part of it a little better. People will then wonder why there are no innovations because why innovate when you can just copy. It is much cheaper and easier to copy than to create a product but then again that doesn't concern you because all you care about is the price.
I don't see the Galaxy SII as an iPhone clone, and IMHO it would never be mistaken for one when a consumer goes to purchase.
The Samsung device is a significant upgrade in hardware and capabilities to Apple's current product, running an OS with different features and capabilities, on a much larger screen more suited to web-browsing and media consumption than Apple's offering. Sorry, but I don't see the Galaxy II as an iPhone copy. If you hold the two side-by-side yourself I don't think you will either.
If you were really interested in what I "thought" you only had to read ahead to the 8th post.
I don't see them as "copies" of each other.
So you are saying it is ok to copy a product as long as you sell it cheaper or if you make part of it a little better. People will then wonder why there are no innovations because why innovate when you can just copy. It is much cheaper and easier to copy than to create a product but then again that doesn't concern you because all you care about is the price.
how much do you *think* the Galaxy SII goes for?
The most popular Android phones are hardly the cheapest. Especially when new still.
Said the troll.
Seriously. The same people always post the same biased crap whenever we get a story like this. "Gatorguy" and "Youarewrong" only exist to troll the boards making contrary posts based on their hatred of Apple, yadda yadda yadda.
What's boring isn't the lawsuit it's the troll comments that always seem to follow.
So if I think a non-Apple company has a great product, I'm a troll? I don't have anything Apple's products, I think they make great stuff. I just don't like them as a company. I understand it's easier for you to call me a troll instead of coming up with a normal response.
I don't like the lawsuit news, that's my personal opinion. If you like them, okay. I'm sure there are more to come.
Nice post. It's a tough forum for people that share an openminded philosophy towards tech.
Yes, Apple is waging a patent world war and it's shameful. And anti competitive and stifling to innovation.
I am so sick of this "stifling innovation" meme that seeps into every comments section on the Internet. The fact of the matter is companies are innovating more now than ever. If innovation was so stifled then why are people buying more smartphones than ever before? If there was no innovation, I would think people would stick with their old phones or buy a dumb phone to not pay carriers an arm and a leg for un-innovative pieces of crap.
I am so sick of this "stifling innovation" meme that seeps into every comments section on the Internet. The fact of the matter is companies are innovating more now than ever. If innovation was so stifled then why are people buying more smartphones than ever before? If there was no innovation, I would think people would stick with their old phones or buy a dumb phone to not pay carriers an arm and a leg for un-innovative pieces of crap.
Bloggers, tech writers, industry experts, and probably even a growing percentage of consumers, are quickly tiring of the highly unusual aggressive patent infringement filings we've seen recently. No matter what your view of how "stifled" innovation may be, there's very little doubt that it's costing every one of us, and perhaps significantly, whenever we buy a smartphone or tablet. You think the costs are just avbsorbed by the licensee? Nope, in all likelihood they just pass those costs on to you and me. How does that benefit consumer's?
http://conversation.which.co.uk/tech...t-htc-samsung/
http://www.businessinsider.com/paten...ne-wild-2011-8
http://www.digitalsociety.org/2010/1...e-patent-wars/
Bloggers, tech writers, industry experts, and probably even a growing percentage of consumers, are quickly tiring of the highly unusual aggressive patent infringement filings we've seen recently. No matter what your view of how "stifled" innovation may be, there's very little doubt that it's costing every one of us, and perhaps significantly, whenever we buy a smartphone or tablet. You think the costs are just avbsorbed by the licensee? Nope, in all likelihood they just pass those costs on to you and me. How does that benefit consumer's?
http://conversation.which.co.uk/tech...t-htc-samsung/
http://www.businessinsider.com/paten...ne-wild-2011-8
http://www.digitalsociety.org/2010/1...e-patent-wars/
If those parties are quickly tiring of lawsuits then they should express it in a meaningful way and not inaccuracies because innovation is still alive and well.
As for costs, I haven't seen consumers pay increased costs in technology in any meaningful way. In fact, I see prices going down.
I am so sick of this "stifling innovation" meme that seeps into every comments section on the Internet. The fact of the matter is companies are innovating more now than ever. If innovation was so stifled then why are people buying more smartphones than ever before? If there was no innovation, I would think people would stick with their old phones or buy a dumb phone to not pay carriers an arm and a leg for un-innovative pieces of crap.
Two totally different arguments.
The lawsuit problem makes it virtually IMPOSSIBLE for a new company to enter the market (apple wasn't a new company, I'm talking startup). It's causing developers to pull their apps from US markets.
Apple might still be patenting thousands of ideas like never before, but the idea that someone "new" could break into the market is an impossibility. There is NO WAY for them to pay all the required patents and still make something profitable. It would also be impossible for them to make something that didn't violate those patents because most patents are left intentionally vague and companies use them as weapons (offensively or defensively) not as ways to "profit" from innovation.
To design a smartphone, you'll violate over a quarter million patents. Say there is someone today who created the best OS ever, and the best design ever for his product. In todays market, he'd never see it to market, or if he did, he'd be sued into oblivion the second his numbers went green. His only hope would be to get bought up by an existing company that would try fitting his "vision" into their inertia.
That's not "more innovation than ever"
And people are buying smartphones because the web is useful on them, and you can actually do things on them other than email. That WAS an innovation, but that was 4 years ago
If those parties are quickly tiring of lawsuits then they should express it in a meaningful way and not inaccuracies because innovation is still alive and well.
As for costs, I haven't seen consumers pay increased costs in technology in any meaningful way. In fact, I see prices going down.
Because carriers are subsidizing devices more than ever before and stuffing as much bloatware onto them as they can, making it easier and easier to go over your usage. Prices are increasing.
There's two ways to increase the profitability of a candy bar:
1: increase the price
2: reduce it's size and keep the same price.