I'm confused why you think I'm wrong. Unless Apple is forced by law to do manufacturing in the country (which won't happen), they'll go wherever it's cheapest. It's no more complex than that.
I'm confused why you think I'm wrong. Unless Apple is forced by law to do manufacturing in the country (which won't happen), they'll go wherever it's cheapest. It's no more complex than that.
If you really want to know, go back and read all of the ahmlco posts. I think my reasoning on some of the benefits has been clear.
I might also mention that this is Apple we're talking about. Not everything done, from the new building, to the Apple stores, to the materials used in their products, is always the cheapest. If there are good enough reasons to do something more expensively, they're not afraid to do so.
I might also mention that this is Apple we're talking about. Not everything done, from the new building, to the Apple stores, to the materials used in their products, is always the cheapest. If there are good enough reasons to do something more expensively, they're not afraid to do so.
Stet. Absolutely.
So can you think of any reasons that building out billions in infrastructure to have domestic people do menial physical labor (that should be being done by machines, anyway) and then go home to their families where they brag about the new products they've just assembled (to their kids who come on AppleInsider to post about them) is a better solution than contracting out these jobs to somewhere that already not only has the infrastructure, but also has on-site living quarters (providing perhaps the easiest way to keep secrets imaginable)?
Facebook??? A social media company that produces... nothing?
Simply because you don't produce a tangible product does not mean you produce nothing.
Facebook has made $2 billion in social networking when no one else has been able.
Quote:
Fine. Facebook's revenues were a whopping $2 billion. Foxconn, the Chinese company most in the news as the world's largest electronics manufacturer (you know, people who actually make things) did about 30x that, at $59 billion.
Interesting discussion about manufacturing in America, but I don't think it's likely to happen, because although there are good reasons, it's still forcing the issue, and apple (smartly) has a tendency to avoid complicated situations and find creative alternatives. I think apple can find other, better ways to contribute than adding labor jobs (not america's strength, and not to mention their campus and retail jobs which are not insignificant). Apple could expand into creative jobs such as producing entertainment for a TV service, increasing the scope of their software services.. any other ideas?
Another factor to consider is apple's relationship with its fastest growing market: China.
As for the campus after the spaceship, doesn't apple own property just across the freeway from the spaceship campus? It would be interesting to see how they would bridge the two if that is the case. I vote for a maglev shuttle service. Damn, I want to work there so bad,* too bad I have no technical expertise.
*If anyone at apple is interested in designing iOS software for children and adults with mental illness, PM me and I'll fly out ASAP!
Yes, so prototype iPhones can get lost on campus, rather than end up on Gizmodo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff
The new campus should definitely have a bar.
If you guys read the link to mercury news, they quote the mayor: "I think it makes sense to call it Apple 2. They have iPad 1 and iPad 2; iPhone 1 and iPhone 2. This building is probably going to have much more innovative technologies and products than what they have at" their first campus."
Made made laugh. The most rational mayor in the US.
I find it bizarre that more and more people are required to work for a company that manufactures computing products that should logically enable fewer people to do more with less... I guess I expect too much of computers.
Yes... but once we reach a tipping point, you might long for these, good 'ol days!
First, there are zoning rules. It may not be possible to build a larger building. Second, you get into infrastructure problems. The streets may not handle more people.
Most importantly, Apple undoubtedly has an entire team of people dedicated to this project. They know Apple's needs far better than you do. Just what qualifies you to hide behind your keyboard and call Apple's campus 'inadequate"?
There are probably a set of quite simple linear equations that when solved, provide the parameters for a 'best' solution. Knowing how to form those equations in the first place is the trick!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Actually, the answer would be 'yes'. Virtually every foreign car factory in the U.S. received massive state tax concessions and other bonuses.
More importantly, there's a huge difference between building a car and building a cell phone. The entire supply chain is vastly different. For starters, the cost of shipping a car from Asia to the US is many hundreds of dollars (or more). It costs probably $10 to ship a phone.
Furthermore, a lot of it comes down to consumer demand. Consumers fought like crazy for U.S. manufacturing of cars. For phones and computers, they don't seem to care where they come from.
There's a difference between hiring production workers and hiring knowledge workers. There is a very good reason to have your knowledge workers in the U.S., but little value (actually, negative value) to having your production workers here.
The Chinese government was quite clever about how they went about the massive transfer of knowledge that has taken place in the last 20 years. They provided irresistible manufacturing conditions to western companies but ensured that those companies were locked into close relationships with local companies through which knowledge was transferred. Simple strategy, unfathomable rewards.
OK, but given that absolutely no one (not just Apple) builds consumer electronics in America ...
I mean, Steve Jobs is famously a control freak. Don't you think he would have loved to have his machines being made within driving distance, if there was any way at all to pull it off economically?
I would be astounded if Apple didn't have an acsencion plan for manufacturing. I cannot believe that there aren't at least some employees who are tasked with researching even high level (less finely resolved) architectures for all of the systems required to manufacture elsewhere on Earth, including the U.S. Some of Apple's current manufacturing processes surely are a manifestation of this pursuit, such as unibody construction.
Comments
Why? Because! That's why!
I'm confused why you think I'm wrong. Unless Apple is forced by law to do manufacturing in the country (which won't happen), they'll go wherever it's cheapest. It's no more complex than that.
I'm confused why you think I'm wrong. Unless Apple is forced by law to do manufacturing in the country (which won't happen), they'll go wherever it's cheapest. It's no more complex than that.
If you really want to know, go back and read all of the ahmlco posts. I think my reasoning on some of the benefits has been clear.
I might also mention that this is Apple we're talking about. Not everything done, from the new building, to the Apple stores, to the materials used in their products, is always the cheapest. If there are good enough reasons to do something more expensively, they're not afraid to do so.
I might also mention that this is Apple we're talking about. Not everything done, from the new building, to the Apple stores, to the materials used in their products, is always the cheapest. If there are good enough reasons to do something more expensively, they're not afraid to do so.
Stet. Absolutely.
So can you think of any reasons that building out billions in infrastructure to have domestic people do menial physical labor (that should be being done by machines, anyway) and then go home to their families where they brag about the new products they've just assembled (to their kids who come on AppleInsider to post about them) is a better solution than contracting out these jobs to somewhere that already not only has the infrastructure, but also has on-site living quarters (providing perhaps the easiest way to keep secrets imaginable)?
Facebook??? A social media company that produces... nothing?
Simply because you don't produce a tangible product does not mean you produce nothing.
Facebook has made $2 billion in social networking when no one else has been able.
Fine. Facebook's revenues were a whopping $2 billion. Foxconn, the Chinese company most in the news as the world's largest electronics manufacturer (you know, people who actually make things) did about 30x that, at $59 billion.
This makes no sense to me.
Yeah, what's stopping them...
Exactly....what is stopping them?
Another factor to consider is apple's relationship with its fastest growing market: China.
As for the campus after the spaceship, doesn't apple own property just across the freeway from the spaceship campus? It would be interesting to see how they would bridge the two if that is the case. I vote for a maglev shuttle service. Damn, I want to work there so bad,* too bad I have no technical expertise.
*If anyone at apple is interested in designing iOS software for children and adults with mental illness, PM me and I'll fly out ASAP!
Yes, so prototype iPhones can get lost on campus, rather than end up on Gizmodo.
The new campus should definitely have a bar.
If you guys read the link to mercury news, they quote the mayor: "I think it makes sense to call it Apple 2. They have iPad 1 and iPad 2; iPhone 1 and iPhone 2. This building is probably going to have much more innovative technologies and products than what they have at" their first campus."
Made made laugh. The most rational mayor in the US.
PS: Whoopie Goldberg should totally run it.
This thread has promise, don't let it die.
I find it bizarre that more and more people are required to work for a company that manufactures computing products that should logically enable fewer people to do more with less...
Yes... but once we reach a tipping point, you might long for these, good 'ol days!
... the quality of engineering isn't there in Asia. It's just not there.
By Asia, you are obviously excluding Japan... (and Taiwan and Singapore and forgive me if I've left out obvious others)!
...so they're obviously very happy with the wage.
Or they don't like the alternatives...
First, there are zoning rules. It may not be possible to build a larger building. Second, you get into infrastructure problems. The streets may not handle more people.
Most importantly, Apple undoubtedly has an entire team of people dedicated to this project. They know Apple's needs far better than you do. Just what qualifies you to hide behind your keyboard and call Apple's campus 'inadequate"?
There are probably a set of quite simple linear equations that when solved, provide the parameters for a 'best' solution. Knowing how to form those equations in the first place is the trick!
Actually, the answer would be 'yes'. Virtually every foreign car factory in the U.S. received massive state tax concessions and other bonuses.
More importantly, there's a huge difference between building a car and building a cell phone. The entire supply chain is vastly different. For starters, the cost of shipping a car from Asia to the US is many hundreds of dollars (or more). It costs probably $10 to ship a phone.
Furthermore, a lot of it comes down to consumer demand. Consumers fought like crazy for U.S. manufacturing of cars. For phones and computers, they don't seem to care where they come from.
There's a difference between hiring production workers and hiring knowledge workers. There is a very good reason to have your knowledge workers in the U.S., but little value (actually, negative value) to having your production workers here.
The Chinese government was quite clever about how they went about the massive transfer of knowledge that has taken place in the last 20 years. They provided irresistible manufacturing conditions to western companies but ensured that those companies were locked into close relationships with local companies through which knowledge was transferred. Simple strategy, unfathomable rewards.
OK, but given that absolutely no one (not just Apple) builds consumer electronics in America ...
I mean, Steve Jobs is famously a control freak. Don't you think he would have loved to have his machines being made within driving distance, if there was any way at all to pull it off economically?
I would be astounded if Apple didn't have an acsencion plan for manufacturing. I cannot believe that there aren't at least some employees who are tasked with researching even high level (less finely resolved) architectures for all of the systems required to manufacture elsewhere on Earth, including the U.S. Some of Apple's current manufacturing processes surely are a manifestation of this pursuit, such as unibody construction.
Interesting times.
I like SpaceBar, but I also suggest Bowen's as an alternative.
I like that! Will require 5 bartenders though, rising from the floor, or perhaps a freezer-burn-compares-to-cool 'descending from above'.
Cheers