Uh, you're supposed to be saying that to the spec whores and people who demand LTE, 4.5" screens, HDMI, and optical drives on everything.
Not me. What the heck.
I am not the other poster, but my guess is he responded thusly to you because you wrote this in an earlier post...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
It's an Apple product release. You think that's not the case every single time?
I've said it before, so I'll say it until it sticks: "No matter how low I set my bar, Apple always manages to worm under it."
The responder was asking for clarification, and I am curious about it too. Were you being sarcastic or something? Sarcasm doesn't always come through very well in print, and there are those of us that don't come around here often enough to just understand that based on your posting history.
But if you were being serious, then I think the previous person was completely justified in asking what you meant by "worming under" your already low set bar.
Also, there is a very good reason Apple is willing to give price breaks and really push iPads instead of school books, iPads in classrooms, and iPad learning apps. If you can hook them young, get them familiar with something then they will be more apt to lean that way when they are making their own purchases.
Please provide a link documenting where Apple is offering extra incentive on the iPads beyond their normal educational discounts.
I believe Apple is interested in seeing more iPads in classrooms, however I have yet to see them offer extra incentives to make this happen. Their SEC filings show that Apple enjoys their fat margins.
Please provide a link documenting where Apple is offering extra incentive on the iPads beyond their normal educational discounts.
How do you know he wasn't talking about the educational discounts? I didn't see the word "extra" in his post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831
I believe Apple is interested in seeing more iPads in classrooms, however I have yet to see them offer extra incentives to make this happen.
You just admitted in a sentence prior that Apple offers educational discounts on the iPad. Why do you keep "discounting" the "discounts"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831
Their SEC filings show that Apple enjoys their fat margins.
The SEC filings show Apple's healthy overall margins, but they don't break them down by product or by discount. So the bottom line is, you don't really know.
Actually, teens are using Apple products. They are current customers.
The iPod touch demographic is primarily the 13-24 year old age group. For the iPhone, it is the very lucrative 25-49 year old age group. As Steve mentioned himself, the iPod touch is training wheels for the iPhone. Of course, teens are also the primary target audience of the iPod nano and shuffle. Apple sells about two iPod touches for every three iPhones.
Today's teens are future iPhone iPhone customers. In a few years, there will probably be massive growth in iPhone owners as many of these kids graduate, get jobs, and then move from the iPod touch to the iPhone, taking all their apps, etc. with them to the smartphone.
Yes, the iPod is the gateway drug to the iPhone (grin, couldn't resist), but I think someone has their demographics mixed up, and sometimes experimenters don't become addicts. Different places in the country/world may have different scenarios, but I'm in a fairly well educated demographic, where the iPod touch is being used by 8-12 year old kids, and the teens (13-19) have already 'graduated' to smart phones, all of them. Literally, I don't think there is a teen on our block without a smartphone.
The iPhone indeed seems to be selling to a lucrative 25-49 year old age group... The problem is the 13-19 group I just mentioned. That age group, in the area where I live, already have smartphones and they're mostly Android. The 20-25 year old folks seem to be mixed ~50/50.
Apple does need to captivate more teen attention in the iPhone department, because those future customers are leaning toward Android.
an individual's personal identity and perceived self-worth shouldn't be associated with a piece of electronic equipment.
Personally, I've never seen anybody peg their self-image to the hunks of metal, glass and plastic that they buy - except for people who buy Apple products and certain cars.
Abramsky is full of it. 28.30 for 2011. This means he is saying this Q will be $7.66 in EPS.
He was off by 20 percent in the last Q. I bet this Q, he will be off by 30 percent.
He's really good at underestimating. Isn't this the same analyst who last year, after it was announced, predicted the iPad would sell 2 million units in 2010, and maybe 5 ~ 10 in 2011?
I was puzzled by his complete lack of foresight with that device? now he's revising it upwards yet again, and still, IMO, way too conservatively.
If Apple can produce 5 million units a month, they'll sell 5 million a month. And they're just about there now. They'll sell 15 million or more in the 4th quarter of this year alone?
I don't know why these analysts are always so far off the mark with Apple. Always under-estimating the reality by very wide margins.
Hmm, maybe it boosts their shareholding value more if their "expectations are exceeded" by reported results? then it would serve them well to shoot low.
Count me in. My 2 year contact is up. All of us who bought the 3GS and haven't upgraded yet are waiting for the iP5 to come out.
Yep. that would be me...
Although, I'll check out the iP5 first. If it's a great update, I'll buy it. If it's only an incremental bump over the iP4, I'll buy one of those instead at a (likely substantial) discount?
I travel and/or live abroad most of the time, so will need the unlocked, contract-free arrangement. That means I have to pay the full, unsubsidized price for it. It'll have to be a great update if I"m going to blow the full price on it.
Personally, I've never seen anybody peg their self-image to the hunks of metal, glass and plastic that they buy - except for people who buy Apple products and certain cars.
You quote me, disagree with me, and then have nothing to say about what I said? I never said anything about numbers or sales falling off. I said I hope that AAPL doesn't push the refresh back because they see all the hype they can get. Sales still being there is actually another point that makes my concern MORE valid. If they see that sales are still there, and by holding back a refresh they can get even more hype and fervor for the product, then they might be tempted to keep doing it.
They are masters at building buzz and milking the pre-launch hype? dangling a tasty looking carrot in front of the buying public for awhile (but only just long enough) is a very effective way to build "pent up" sales momentum.
Then when it finally releases, they can report extraordinary result coming out of the gate (e.g. a million sold in the first weekend!) which says to the rest of the buying public that it must be a great product, and so they go to buy as well?
Then the stock shortages act as a "rinse and repeat" on creating more pent up demand?
It's a careful balance though. You can easily overdo it, and end up losing business? but they back up the desire with desirable, high-quality products, which is an essential part of it.
It's a highly effective strategy, in any case? and I've just come to expect it from them.
Please provide a link documenting where Apple is offering extra incentive on the iPads beyond their normal educational discounts.
I believe Apple is interested in seeing more iPads in classrooms, however I have yet to see them offer extra incentives to make this happen. Their SEC filings show that Apple enjoys their fat margins.
Please provide the link where I say they are giving extra incentive beyond their normal educational discount. I only said they give a discount.
They are masters at building buzz and milking the pre-launch hype? dangling a tasty looking carrot in front of the buying public for awhile (but only just long enough) is a very effective way to build "pent up" sales momentum.
Then when it finally releases, they can report extraordinary result coming out of the gate (e.g. a million sold in the first weekend!) which says to the rest of the buying public that it must be a great product, and so they go to buy as well?
Then the stock shortages act as a "rinse and repeat" on creating more pent up demand?
It's a careful balance though. You can easily overdo it, and end up losing business? but they back up the desire with desirable, high-quality products, which is an essential part of it.
It's a highly effective strategy, in any case? and I've just come to expect it from them.
No doubt it is effective, I just wish they wouldn't make me wait so long to get the latest and greatest
Count me in. My 2 year contact is up. All of us who bought the 3GS and haven't upgraded yet are waiting for the iP5 to come out.
Ha! I picked up a 3G phone a week after the 3GS was released. Guess they were dumping inventory as I got mine < $100. I wasn't exactly sure what I was getting but my contract is up and it was time for a new phone. Now I'm hooked .
Well my contract just expired in August so you can be sure I'm waiting for the i5 to come out. I'm confident it will be a quantum leap over what I have been using (but still liking) over the last 2 years.
But sounds like the demand will be so fierce that I'll be able pick one up right about when they are ready to release a new one!
They are masters at building buzz and milking the pre-launch hype? dangling a tasty looking carrot in front of the buying public for awhile (but only just long enough) is a very effective way to build "pent up" sales momentum.
Then when it finally releases, they can report extraordinary result coming out of the gate (e.g. a million sold in the first weekend!) which says to the rest of the buying public that it must be a great product, and so they go to buy as well?
Then the stock shortages act as a "rinse and repeat" on creating more pent up demand?
It's a careful balance though. You can easily overdo it, and end up losing business? but they back up the desire with desirable, high-quality products, which is an essential part of it.
It's a highly effective strategy, in any case? and I've just come to expect it from them.
yes, not having any product to sell is an awesome way to make money
This can't be easy for AT&T... think of all those monthly contracts expiring (several months' worth now), and how much of an exodus there will be to Verizon, T-Mobile, and Sprint. This is the first opportunity that 3GS owners have to leave AT&T (and still be on the iPhone).
I am in that boat. I sold my out of warranty 3GS phone last month and am currently using my Samsung Focus (not Mango - I wish) until Apple releases the iPhone 5. I will upgrade and renew my contract if the new iPhone is more than an incremental update. If it is just a minor update I will keep using my Samsung Focus and relegate my app usage/music enjoyment to my iPod Touch.
How do you know he wasn't talking about the educational discounts? I didn't see the word "extra" in his post.
You just admitted in a sentence prior that Apple offers educational discounts on the iPad. Why do you keep "discounting" the "discounts"?
The SEC filings show Apple's healthy overall margins, but they don't break them down by product or by discount. So the bottom line is, you don't really know.
Thompson
He directed specific attention to the iPad and education. As far as I can tell, Apple's educational discounts are pretty modest and fairly evenly applied across their product lines. It's not like Microsoft's bargain basement educational pricing for Office.
Without evidence of special educational iPad discounting, one cannot make the assumption that they are pushing that particular product line more than any other. If they were doing something like waiving their 30% fee for educational app purchases, that would be notable, but we're not seeing any evidence of that.
If anything, they are showing more emphasis on Macs. They are still carrying the white polycarbonate MacBook for educational institutions.
In any case, we'd definitely hear about extra educational discounts on iPads in the media by educational institutions if they were really being promoted even if confidentiality prevented those organizations from specifying the terms.
how did you transfer your phone number to another phone without signing another contract?
>> I am in that boat. I sold my out of warranty 3GS phone last month and am currently using my Samsung Focus (not Mango - I wish) until Apple releases the iPhone 5. I will upgrade and renew my contract if the new iPhone is more than an incremental update. If it is just a minor update I will keep using my Samsung Focus and relegate my app usage/music enjoyment to my iPod Touch.
He directed specific attention to the iPad and education. As far as I can tell, Apple's educational discounts are pretty modest and fairly evenly applied across their product lines. It's not like Microsoft's bargain basement educational pricing for Office.
Without evidence of special educational iPad discounting, one cannot make the assumption that they are pushing that particular product line more than any other. If they were doing something like waiving their 30% fee for educational app purchases, that would be notable, but we're not seeing any evidence of that.
If anything, they are showing more emphasis on Macs. They are still carrying the white polycarbonate MacBook for educational institutions.
In any case, we'd definitely hear about extra educational discounts on iPads in the media by educational institutions if they were really being promoted even if confidentiality prevented those organizations from specifying the terms.
Yes, I did "direct specific attention to the iPad and education", but not anything about extra discounts. It is more along the lines of heavy sales push to replace text books with iPads for schools. My school district has been approached to test replacement of bulky books with the iPad2.
You don't have to cut prices or offers steeper discounts if the product is better and you can show it saves money. Apple is making a large push to show that the iPad could be a major cost saver for schools, even purchased at full price.
Comments
Uh, you're supposed to be saying that to the spec whores and people who demand LTE, 4.5" screens, HDMI, and optical drives on everything.
Not me. What the heck.
I am not the other poster, but my guess is he responded thusly to you because you wrote this in an earlier post...
It's an Apple product release. You think that's not the case every single time?
I've said it before, so I'll say it until it sticks: "No matter how low I set my bar, Apple always manages to worm under it."
The responder was asking for clarification, and I am curious about it too. Were you being sarcastic or something? Sarcasm doesn't always come through very well in print, and there are those of us that don't come around here often enough to just understand that based on your posting history.
But if you were being serious, then I think the previous person was completely justified in asking what you meant by "worming under" your already low set bar.
Thompson
Also, there is a very good reason Apple is willing to give price breaks and really push iPads instead of school books, iPads in classrooms, and iPad learning apps. If you can hook them young, get them familiar with something then they will be more apt to lean that way when they are making their own purchases.
Please provide a link documenting where Apple is offering extra incentive on the iPads beyond their normal educational discounts.
I believe Apple is interested in seeing more iPads in classrooms, however I have yet to see them offer extra incentives to make this happen. Their SEC filings show that Apple enjoys their fat margins.
count me in. My 2 year contact is up. All of us who bought the 3gs and haven't upgraded yet are waiting for the ip5 to come out.
exactly!!!
Please provide a link documenting where Apple is offering extra incentive on the iPads beyond their normal educational discounts.
How do you know he wasn't talking about the educational discounts? I didn't see the word "extra" in his post.
I believe Apple is interested in seeing more iPads in classrooms, however I have yet to see them offer extra incentives to make this happen.
You just admitted in a sentence prior that Apple offers educational discounts on the iPad. Why do you keep "discounting" the "discounts"?
Their SEC filings show that Apple enjoys their fat margins.
The SEC filings show Apple's healthy overall margins, but they don't break them down by product or by discount. So the bottom line is, you don't really know.
Thompson
Actually, teens are using Apple products. They are current customers.
The iPod touch demographic is primarily the 13-24 year old age group. For the iPhone, it is the very lucrative 25-49 year old age group. As Steve mentioned himself, the iPod touch is training wheels for the iPhone. Of course, teens are also the primary target audience of the iPod nano and shuffle. Apple sells about two iPod touches for every three iPhones.
Today's teens are future iPhone iPhone customers. In a few years, there will probably be massive growth in iPhone owners as many of these kids graduate, get jobs, and then move from the iPod touch to the iPhone, taking all their apps, etc. with them to the smartphone.
Yes, the iPod is the gateway drug to the iPhone (grin, couldn't resist), but I think someone has their demographics mixed up, and sometimes experimenters don't become addicts. Different places in the country/world may have different scenarios, but I'm in a fairly well educated demographic, where the iPod touch is being used by 8-12 year old kids, and the teens (13-19) have already 'graduated' to smart phones, all of them. Literally, I don't think there is a teen on our block without a smartphone.
The iPhone indeed seems to be selling to a lucrative 25-49 year old age group... The problem is the 13-19 group I just mentioned. That age group, in the area where I live, already have smartphones and they're mostly Android. The 20-25 year old folks seem to be mixed ~50/50.
Apple does need to captivate more teen attention in the iPhone department, because those future customers are leaning toward Android.
an individual's personal identity and perceived self-worth shouldn't be associated with a piece of electronic equipment.
Personally, I've never seen anybody peg their self-image to the hunks of metal, glass and plastic that they buy - except for people who buy Apple products and certain cars.
Abramsky is full of it. 28.30 for 2011. This means he is saying this Q will be $7.66 in EPS.
He was off by 20 percent in the last Q. I bet this Q, he will be off by 30 percent.
He's really good at underestimating. Isn't this the same analyst who last year, after it was announced, predicted the iPad would sell 2 million units in 2010, and maybe 5 ~ 10 in 2011?
I was puzzled by his complete lack of foresight with that device? now he's revising it upwards yet again, and still, IMO, way too conservatively.
If Apple can produce 5 million units a month, they'll sell 5 million a month. And they're just about there now. They'll sell 15 million or more in the 4th quarter of this year alone?
I don't know why these analysts are always so far off the mark with Apple. Always under-estimating the reality by very wide margins.
Hmm, maybe it boosts their shareholding value more if their "expectations are exceeded" by reported results? then it would serve them well to shoot low.
Count me in. My 2 year contact is up. All of us who bought the 3GS and haven't upgraded yet are waiting for the iP5 to come out.
Yep. that would be me...
Although, I'll check out the iP5 first. If it's a great update, I'll buy it. If it's only an incremental bump over the iP4, I'll buy one of those instead at a (likely substantial) discount?
I travel and/or live abroad most of the time, so will need the unlocked, contract-free arrangement. That means I have to pay the full, unsubsidized price for it. It'll have to be a great update if I"m going to blow the full price on it.
But hey, it's Apple. They rarely disappoint
Personally, I've never seen anybody peg their self-image to the hunks of metal, glass and plastic that they buy - except for people who buy Apple products and certain cars.
Really!? You should get out more.
You quote me, disagree with me, and then have nothing to say about what I said? I never said anything about numbers or sales falling off. I said I hope that AAPL doesn't push the refresh back because they see all the hype they can get. Sales still being there is actually another point that makes my concern MORE valid. If they see that sales are still there, and by holding back a refresh they can get even more hype and fervor for the product, then they might be tempted to keep doing it.
They are masters at building buzz and milking the pre-launch hype? dangling a tasty looking carrot in front of the buying public for awhile (but only just long enough) is a very effective way to build "pent up" sales momentum.
Then when it finally releases, they can report extraordinary result coming out of the gate (e.g. a million sold in the first weekend!) which says to the rest of the buying public that it must be a great product, and so they go to buy as well?
Then the stock shortages act as a "rinse and repeat" on creating more pent up demand?
It's a careful balance though. You can easily overdo it, and end up losing business? but they back up the desire with desirable, high-quality products, which is an essential part of it.
It's a highly effective strategy, in any case? and I've just come to expect it from them.
Please provide a link documenting where Apple is offering extra incentive on the iPads beyond their normal educational discounts.
I believe Apple is interested in seeing more iPads in classrooms, however I have yet to see them offer extra incentives to make this happen. Their SEC filings show that Apple enjoys their fat margins.
Please provide the link where I say they are giving extra incentive beyond their normal educational discount. I only said they give a discount.
They are masters at building buzz and milking the pre-launch hype? dangling a tasty looking carrot in front of the buying public for awhile (but only just long enough) is a very effective way to build "pent up" sales momentum.
Then when it finally releases, they can report extraordinary result coming out of the gate (e.g. a million sold in the first weekend!) which says to the rest of the buying public that it must be a great product, and so they go to buy as well?
Then the stock shortages act as a "rinse and repeat" on creating more pent up demand?
It's a careful balance though. You can easily overdo it, and end up losing business? but they back up the desire with desirable, high-quality products, which is an essential part of it.
It's a highly effective strategy, in any case? and I've just come to expect it from them.
No doubt it is effective, I just wish they wouldn't make me wait so long to get the latest and greatest
Count me in. My 2 year contact is up. All of us who bought the 3GS and haven't upgraded yet are waiting for the iP5 to come out.
Ha! I picked up a 3G phone a week after the 3GS was released. Guess they were dumping inventory as I got mine < $100. I wasn't exactly sure what I was getting but my contract is up and it was time for a new phone. Now I'm hooked .
Well my contract just expired in August so you can be sure I'm waiting for the i5 to come out. I'm confident it will be a quantum leap over what I have been using (but still liking) over the last 2 years.
But sounds like the demand will be so fierce that I'll be able pick one up right about when they are ready to release a new one!
They are masters at building buzz and milking the pre-launch hype? dangling a tasty looking carrot in front of the buying public for awhile (but only just long enough) is a very effective way to build "pent up" sales momentum.
Then when it finally releases, they can report extraordinary result coming out of the gate (e.g. a million sold in the first weekend!) which says to the rest of the buying public that it must be a great product, and so they go to buy as well?
Then the stock shortages act as a "rinse and repeat" on creating more pent up demand?
It's a careful balance though. You can easily overdo it, and end up losing business? but they back up the desire with desirable, high-quality products, which is an essential part of it.
It's a highly effective strategy, in any case? and I've just come to expect it from them.
yes, not having any product to sell is an awesome way to make money
This can't be easy for AT&T... think of all those monthly contracts expiring (several months' worth now), and how much of an exodus there will be to Verizon, T-Mobile, and Sprint. This is the first opportunity that 3GS owners have to leave AT&T (and still be on the iPhone).
I am in that boat. I sold my out of warranty 3GS phone last month and am currently using my Samsung Focus (not Mango - I wish) until Apple releases the iPhone 5. I will upgrade and renew my contract if the new iPhone is more than an incremental update. If it is just a minor update I will keep using my Samsung Focus and relegate my app usage/music enjoyment to my iPod Touch.
In a holding pattern right now...
How do you know he wasn't talking about the educational discounts? I didn't see the word "extra" in his post.
You just admitted in a sentence prior that Apple offers educational discounts on the iPad. Why do you keep "discounting" the "discounts"?
The SEC filings show Apple's healthy overall margins, but they don't break them down by product or by discount. So the bottom line is, you don't really know.
Thompson
He directed specific attention to the iPad and education. As far as I can tell, Apple's educational discounts are pretty modest and fairly evenly applied across their product lines. It's not like Microsoft's bargain basement educational pricing for Office.
Without evidence of special educational iPad discounting, one cannot make the assumption that they are pushing that particular product line more than any other. If they were doing something like waiving their 30% fee for educational app purchases, that would be notable, but we're not seeing any evidence of that.
If anything, they are showing more emphasis on Macs. They are still carrying the white polycarbonate MacBook for educational institutions.
In any case, we'd definitely hear about extra educational discounts on iPads in the media by educational institutions if they were really being promoted even if confidentiality prevented those organizations from specifying the terms.
how did you transfer your phone number to another phone without signing another contract?
>> I am in that boat. I sold my out of warranty 3GS phone last month and am currently using my Samsung Focus (not Mango - I wish) until Apple releases the iPhone 5. I will upgrade and renew my contract if the new iPhone is more than an incremental update. If it is just a minor update I will keep using my Samsung Focus and relegate my app usage/music enjoyment to my iPod Touch.
He directed specific attention to the iPad and education. As far as I can tell, Apple's educational discounts are pretty modest and fairly evenly applied across their product lines. It's not like Microsoft's bargain basement educational pricing for Office.
Without evidence of special educational iPad discounting, one cannot make the assumption that they are pushing that particular product line more than any other. If they were doing something like waiving their 30% fee for educational app purchases, that would be notable, but we're not seeing any evidence of that.
If anything, they are showing more emphasis on Macs. They are still carrying the white polycarbonate MacBook for educational institutions.
In any case, we'd definitely hear about extra educational discounts on iPads in the media by educational institutions if they were really being promoted even if confidentiality prevented those organizations from specifying the terms.
Yes, I did "direct specific attention to the iPad and education", but not anything about extra discounts. It is more along the lines of heavy sales push to replace text books with iPads for schools. My school district has been approached to test replacement of bulky books with the iPad2.
You don't have to cut prices or offers steeper discounts if the product is better and you can show it saves money. Apple is making a large push to show that the iPad could be a major cost saver for schools, even purchased at full price.