Even without the fan (pauses to keep face straight) is anyone going to buy this POS ?
There must be some smart people at Microsoft and at Samsung. So why is it all they can come up with is junk like this ? They can't even make a product that gives the iPad a run for its money, let alone bring something new and innovative to the tablet form. By the time this hits the market Apple will have moved on, and MS won't even have reached the point where the puck had been.
This must be an all time low for Microsoft and Samsung: it should never have been revealed to the public.
Can anyone explain why MS completely fail to understand design aesthetics on every level ?
I understand that the whole "Intel tablet with a fan" is a temporary thing until the actual product releases, but since you are already showing an admittedly half as-... er, "alpha" version of the software, why don't go the full monty and give away prototype tablets with an actual (albeit not optimal) ARM CPU? Even if they don't perform as well as the (ultimately) shipping product, as a developer I would be more interested in testing Windows on the yet-uncharted ARM territory.
I think it's as simple as ARM not being ready. They demo ARM devices in the keynote but most of the actual Windows 8 demonstrations are done on Intel hardware.
I understand an Apple site needs to spin this to give Apple a positive look, and in regards to Samsung, this is just getting shameless. But OTOH, having been running this developer preview (admittedly only for a couple hours), I absolutely love it. We'll see after a couple weeks when the new OS smell wears off, but it is faster than Win7 was on the same machine. I've installed iTunes, Flash, Office 2010, Java, Chrome, and Eclipse (Java dev tool), and everything has been running flawlessly. For a "pre-beta", I am absolutely floored. I can't believe I'm saying this, but so far so good Microsoft!
The really cool thing is that devices can do double duty, and the same OS works on a variety of devices.
You can have a tablet computer to walk around with, and when you plug it into the base station, you have full keyboard/mouse control. Windows 8 will run every app that can run on Win7, so there is no need to use dumbed-down tablet applets when you are at your desk.
I'm looking forward to tablets that are real computers, capable of everything a regular PC is capable of.
I envision the base station having a massive external drive connected to it, so you've got all your data right there when you use the computer interface, with an easy and efficient way to drag and drop data onto the smaller local SSD for when you are out and about. You could even put the big programs on the external drive, using full-blown Office in the dock, and a pared-down tablet version when you are disconnected.
Not only that, but the WinTabs will allow a variety of inputs: Touchscreen with either finger or stylus, mouse, trackpad, Wacomm tablet, bluetooth or wired or USB keyboard. Outputs too: use the built-in small screen, use a good sized monitor, or use HDMI for your honking huge TV.
I hope that it works as well as envisioned. If so, it will mature the tablet paradigm into a variety of full-featured uses and devices.
I really like the idea of a tablet as a real computer instead of a limited-use appliance.
IMO you're wasting your time unless you are a developer.
The dev pre-releases are just that. They have just about everything useful stripped out.
No mail, no calendar, no people hub, no Xbox Live, no Windows Store etc etc etc
It's also pretty much impossible to get a sense of the "killer" tablet features like side-by-side apps and "app contracts" without having a bunch of different applications installed.
It's looking fairly okay, even in its pre-Beta state. Looks responsive although touch could do with some tweaking. That more or less says it though - it's going to be a two horse race between Apple and Microsoft. I imagine Android won't be able to compete on a large scale, especially now it's being forked to holy hell. I foresee their tablet presence relegated to a few, niche devices e.g. Amazon, B&N and Gamestop. A revamped Windows Media Centre and the addition of Xbox Live should be a good OS for a HTPC.
The only thing now is to see if Microsoft can release Windows 8 before the iPad becomes a full fledged PC replacement (which is more about the apps than the OS imo). Microsoft will be competing against the iPad 3 and iOS 6 come mid to late '12. Once it takes it's $50 fee, I doubt the OEMs will be able to compete price-wise and spec-wise with the third gen iPad. Compromises will be made - just look how hard they're finding it with Android, which is more or less free. In addition to this, I'm not sure business users will find Metro that appealing (it will be pervasive even in the 'classic' UI).
Slow execution embodies Microsoft these days. Their stuff is getting better, but to think Apple beat them to the whole '3 screens and a cloud' thing (which Balmer was going on about for how many years?) must hurt. Plus the fans are looking pretty pre-post-PC.
This looks like a great idea for a tablet or a tablet-as-a-pc-replacement but a stand-alone desktop? Terrible. The interface was not designed for a mouse and will be more difficult to use with a mouse.
You will be able to switch to a regular Windows desktop when docked. Apps too - choose between the full-featured interface or the dumbed-down tablet interface when you use the device for different purposes.
You will be able to switch to a regular Windows desktop when docked. Apps too - choose between the full-featured interface or the dumbed-down tablet interface when you use the device for different purposes.
Leaving aside the question of why anyone would ever wish to use a 'regular Windows desktop ' in the first place, can't you see that the idea of a tablet is not to replicate the function of a desktop machine ?
As ever Microsoft have got it wrong by trying to shoehorn too many facilities/gimmicks into the box, and please every member of the focus group.
A cursor and a mouse on a touchscreen interface ? Do I need to say any more ?
The iPad is doing well because the mass market wants a simple appliance ...
I can't possibly imagine Grandma or some other non-technical person wanting to use this thing.
Wow. How times have changed. Apple used to be the brand for the tech-savvy rebel. Now it is the choice of the mass-market and the grandparents?
Some people think different from the mass market. Is Apple abandoning them? Sheep used to buy Microsoft. Now is Apple the brand for the sheep and the lemmings?
We understand that much, thanks. Point is that no-one wants active cooling on a tablet, and no-one knows how Windows 8 will run on slower hardware.
Actually, the facts are different. Windows 8 runs faster than Windows 7 on weak hardware, according to many reviews. And Windows 7 runs just fine in yesterday's netbooks, which are sans-fans.
Somehow, I think that there will be a wide variety of choices in the Win8 tablet/notebook/desktop market.
I like the idea of choice. Grandma might get confused, but The Rest of Us welcome it.
Leaving aside the question of why anyone would ever wish to use a 'regular Windows desktop ' in the first place, can't you see that the idea of a tablet is not to replicate the function of a desktop machine ?
As ever Microsoft have got it wrong by trying to shoehorn too many facilities/gimmicks into the box, and please every member of the focus group.
A cursor and a mouse on a touchscreen interface ? Do I need to say any more ?
Yes. Tell me why it is a problem to be able to use full featured software, like Photoshop when you are docked, and dumbed-down applets when you are not.
It would be great to have a cheap appliance to surf the 'web. But nothing is yet available.
It would also be great to have a single device that is both a full-on tablet and a full-on computer, depending on where and how you are using it. It looks like that is on the horizon.
Had to Cmd-Ctrl-D on snafus, & wasn't surprised to read:
"noun
a confused or chaotic state; a mess : an enormous amount of my time was devoted to untangling snafus.
adjective
in utter confusion or chaos : our refrigeration plant is snafu."
How the heck does Sinofsky mean: "there are going to be more of them"? Meaning it is a pre-beta, I presume? A pre-beta. Wow. Reminds me of GMv2. MS hasn't changed a bit.
"SNAFU" is a World War II US Army acronym. It stands for: "Situation Normal: All F-ed Up".
So yes, Microsoft is saying their product is SNAFU. Who needs Apple fanboys?
The only thing now is to see if Microsoft can release Windows 8 before the iPad becomes a full fledged PC replacement (which is more about the apps than the OS imo).
My brain has been doing back-flips over this one recently!
A lot of people (I was one) see it as a foregone conclusion that the iPad will become a full fledged PC replacement... but I'm just not that sure anymore.
Windows 8 isn't quite what people see as "PC", but there are a bunch of features that set it apart from "media tablets". Stuff like the information rich and "alive" start screen, user profiles, side-by-side applications, app contracts and the ability to join Windows domains and of course the "classic desktop" app.
As I think of the iPad adding this kind of functionality I can't help but wonder if they would completely alienate their core market.
There also has to be some kind of performance penalty from adding in this kind of functionality, regardless of the promises delivered by Microsoft.
Just look at the hatred directed toward Microsoft in this thread for including a "class Windows desktop" app on their tablet OS. I can't imagine these same people wouldn't be completely pissed off by an "OSX app" being included on the next iPad.
Could it be possible that there are actually two separate markets here? i.e. those looking for a completely appliance-like "media tablet", and others looking for something a little bit "media tablet" but a little bit PC as well?
Comments
I thought only registered devs could get it?
I'm not a registered dev and i'm downloading it right now. No log in, no forms to fill out, just a download button and you're ready to go.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/br229516
There must be some smart people at Microsoft and at Samsung. So why is it all they can come up with is junk like this ? They can't even make a product that gives the iPad a run for its money, let alone bring something new and innovative to the tablet form. By the time this hits the market Apple will have moved on, and MS won't even have reached the point where the puck had been.
This must be an all time low for Microsoft and Samsung: it should never have been revealed to the public.
Can anyone explain why MS completely fail to understand design aesthetics on every level ?
Even without the fan (pauses to keep face straight)
I'll do it for you:
Can anyone explain why MS completely fail to understand design aesthetics on every level ?
<insert balmer joke here>
I understand that the whole "Intel tablet with a fan" is a temporary thing until the actual product releases, but since you are already showing an admittedly half as-... er, "alpha" version of the software, why don't go the full monty and give away prototype tablets with an actual (albeit not optimal) ARM CPU? Even if they don't perform as well as the (ultimately) shipping product, as a developer I would be more interested in testing Windows on the yet-uncharted ARM territory.
I think it's as simple as ARM not being ready. They demo ARM devices in the keynote but most of the actual Windows 8 demonstrations are done on Intel hardware.
I understand an Apple site needs to spin this to give Apple a positive look, and in regards to Samsung, this is just getting shameless. But OTOH, having been running this developer preview (admittedly only for a couple hours), I absolutely love it. We'll see after a couple weeks when the new OS smell wears off, but it is faster than Win7 was on the same machine. I've installed iTunes, Flash, Office 2010, Java, Chrome, and Eclipse (Java dev tool), and everything has been running flawlessly. For a "pre-beta", I am absolutely floored. I can't believe I'm saying this, but so far so good Microsoft!
The really cool thing is that devices can do double duty, and the same OS works on a variety of devices.
You can have a tablet computer to walk around with, and when you plug it into the base station, you have full keyboard/mouse control. Windows 8 will run every app that can run on Win7, so there is no need to use dumbed-down tablet applets when you are at your desk.
I'm looking forward to tablets that are real computers, capable of everything a regular PC is capable of.
I envision the base station having a massive external drive connected to it, so you've got all your data right there when you use the computer interface, with an easy and efficient way to drag and drop data onto the smaller local SSD for when you are out and about. You could even put the big programs on the external drive, using full-blown Office in the dock, and a pared-down tablet version when you are disconnected.
Not only that, but the WinTabs will allow a variety of inputs: Touchscreen with either finger or stylus, mouse, trackpad, Wacomm tablet, bluetooth or wired or USB keyboard. Outputs too: use the built-in small screen, use a good sized monitor, or use HDMI for your honking huge TV.
I hope that it works as well as envisioned. If so, it will mature the tablet paradigm into a variety of full-featured uses and devices.
I really like the idea of a tablet as a real computer instead of a limited-use appliance.
I'm not a registered dev and i'm downloading it right now. No log in, no forms to fill out, just a download button and you're ready to go.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/br229516
IMO you're wasting your time unless you are a developer.
The dev pre-releases are just that. They have just about everything useful stripped out.
No mail, no calendar, no people hub, no Xbox Live, no Windows Store etc etc etc
It's also pretty much impossible to get a sense of the "killer" tablet features like side-by-side apps and "app contracts" without having a bunch of different applications installed.
The thing that bugs me is the mis-use of schizophrenia by so many when they really mean a split personality.
Microshaft revenue from ALL it's products is now about $60 billion a year... Flat... And Apple's is $ 500 billion... Up 62% from last year....
Yeah. I'm much more interested in how much money vendors make, rather than what their products can do for me.
Not.
The only thing now is to see if Microsoft can release Windows 8 before the iPad becomes a full fledged PC replacement (which is more about the apps than the OS imo). Microsoft will be competing against the iPad 3 and iOS 6 come mid to late '12. Once it takes it's $50 fee, I doubt the OEMs will be able to compete price-wise and spec-wise with the third gen iPad. Compromises will be made - just look how hard they're finding it with Android, which is more or less free. In addition to this, I'm not sure business users will find Metro that appealing (it will be pervasive even in the 'classic' UI).
Slow execution embodies Microsoft these days. Their stuff is getting better, but to think Apple beat them to the whole '3 screens and a cloud' thing (which Balmer was going on about for how many years?) must hurt. Plus the fans are looking pretty pre-post-PC.
This looks like a great idea for a tablet or a tablet-as-a-pc-replacement but a stand-alone desktop? Terrible. The interface was not designed for a mouse and will be more difficult to use with a mouse.
You will be able to switch to a regular Windows desktop when docked. Apps too - choose between the full-featured interface or the dumbed-down tablet interface when you use the device for different purposes.
You will be able to switch to a regular Windows desktop when docked. Apps too - choose between the full-featured interface or the dumbed-down tablet interface when you use the device for different purposes.
Leaving aside the question of why anyone would ever wish to use a 'regular Windows desktop ' in the first place, can't you see that the idea of a tablet is not to replicate the function of a desktop machine ?
As ever Microsoft have got it wrong by trying to shoehorn too many facilities/gimmicks into the box, and please every member of the focus group.
A cursor and a mouse on a touchscreen interface ? Do I need to say any more ?
Other companies, like MS and Samsung, demo products that still look like crap because they are desperate for attention. Which of course backfires.
Hmmmm.......Windows outsells OSX by about 15:1, and Samsung sells more phones than anyone.
How do you figure that equals backfiring? Seems like they are doing some things right.
Hmmmm.......Windows outsells OSX by about 15:1, and Samsung sells more phones than anyone.
How do you figure that equals backfiring? Seems like they are doing some things right.
Yes but large numbers don't equal large profits. That's why Apple make hugely more on each machine running OSX than MS do flogging a copy of Windows.
The iPad is doing well because the mass market wants a simple appliance ...
I can't possibly imagine Grandma or some other non-technical person wanting to use this thing.
Wow. How times have changed. Apple used to be the brand for the tech-savvy rebel. Now it is the choice of the mass-market and the grandparents?
Some people think different from the mass market. Is Apple abandoning them? Sheep used to buy Microsoft. Now is Apple the brand for the sheep and the lemmings?
Dunno...
We understand that much, thanks. Point is that no-one wants active cooling on a tablet, and no-one knows how Windows 8 will run on slower hardware.
Actually, the facts are different. Windows 8 runs faster than Windows 7 on weak hardware, according to many reviews. And Windows 7 runs just fine in yesterday's netbooks, which are sans-fans.
Somehow, I think that there will be a wide variety of choices in the Win8 tablet/notebook/desktop market.
I like the idea of choice. Grandma might get confused, but The Rest of Us welcome it.
Leaving aside the question of why anyone would ever wish to use a 'regular Windows desktop ' in the first place, can't you see that the idea of a tablet is not to replicate the function of a desktop machine ?
As ever Microsoft have got it wrong by trying to shoehorn too many facilities/gimmicks into the box, and please every member of the focus group.
A cursor and a mouse on a touchscreen interface ? Do I need to say any more ?
Yes. Tell me why it is a problem to be able to use full featured software, like Photoshop when you are docked, and dumbed-down applets when you are not.
It would be great to have a cheap appliance to surf the 'web. But nothing is yet available.
It would also be great to have a single device that is both a full-on tablet and a full-on computer, depending on where and how you are using it. It looks like that is on the horizon.
Woooaaahhhhh there buddy!!!
Press down on that screen any harder and you might just break it.
Had to Cmd-Ctrl-D on snafus, & wasn't surprised to read:
"noun
a confused or chaotic state; a mess : an enormous amount of my time was devoted to untangling snafus.
adjective
in utter confusion or chaos : our refrigeration plant is snafu."
How the heck does Sinofsky mean: "there are going to be more of them"? Meaning it is a pre-beta, I presume? A pre-beta. Wow. Reminds me of GMv2. MS hasn't changed a bit.
"SNAFU" is a World War II US Army acronym. It stands for: "Situation Normal: All F-ed Up".
So yes, Microsoft is saying their product is SNAFU. Who needs Apple fanboys?
The only thing now is to see if Microsoft can release Windows 8 before the iPad becomes a full fledged PC replacement (which is more about the apps than the OS imo).
My brain has been doing back-flips over this one recently!
A lot of people (I was one) see it as a foregone conclusion that the iPad will become a full fledged PC replacement... but I'm just not that sure anymore.
Windows 8 isn't quite what people see as "PC", but there are a bunch of features that set it apart from "media tablets". Stuff like the information rich and "alive" start screen, user profiles, side-by-side applications, app contracts and the ability to join Windows domains and of course the "classic desktop" app.
As I think of the iPad adding this kind of functionality I can't help but wonder if they would completely alienate their core market.
There also has to be some kind of performance penalty from adding in this kind of functionality, regardless of the promises delivered by Microsoft.
Just look at the hatred directed toward Microsoft in this thread for including a "class Windows desktop" app on their tablet OS. I can't imagine these same people wouldn't be completely pissed off by an "OSX app" being included on the next iPad.
Could it be possible that there are actually two separate markets here? i.e. those looking for a completely appliance-like "media tablet", and others looking for something a little bit "media tablet" but a little bit PC as well?