Sounds good, as does the pane for split screen apps. Contracts are a great idea, but the thing with showing it off so early means it's difficult to imagine it fully realised. That said, looking forward to see what developers do with it. With "old Windows" to fall back on, how can Microsoft get them to develop proper Metro apps?
I wouldn't say it's a confidence thing - just that Microsoft have to cater to a diverse crowd. Which other projects have been scrapped, in line with the pre-Beta strategy? I'm foreseeing plenty of changes but odds of scrappage are quite low.
The Courier project springs to mind.
We'll have to see if this project ever comes to release in its present incarnation. I'll note your handle and check back
It looks far too difficult to navigate the UI for the average consumer to me. Nothing seems natural or logical at all, I think the end user would need to sit down with a "MS bible of gestures" to get started on this OS.
Having said that, it's healthy for the tablet market to have some more competition and there will of course be uses and demand for a technical tablet that runs a full desktop OS.
I however will stick to the ease of use of the iOS as whenever I get down to serious work I sit at my desk with my iMac. IMO the tablet is for fun i.e. Surfing the web, watching video, playing a game etc etc.
Wow. How times have changed. Apple used to be the brand for the tech-savvy rebel. Now it is the choice of the mass-market and the grandparents?
Some people think different from the mass market. Is Apple abandoning them? Sheep used to buy Microsoft. Now is Apple the brand for the sheep and the lemmings?
Dunno...
You've obviously never heard Apple's 1984 tagline for the original 128K Mac: "Macintosh, the computer for the rest of us."
It has rounded corners, but it does have quite sharp edges all around if you look it side. I accidentally hit my Lockwood house wall with it's edges, which resulted small dent a couple of times. It was a little push, but made dent and I can not do anything about it as the wall is naked lockwood house wall. Also, when my daughter of 3 years old hit my ellbow bone with it's edges, it hurts.
Seriously? This is your complaint, that if you whack it into something or someone it leaves a mark? Maybe you should just hold out for the NerfPad, and in the meantime get some elbow guards.
The really cool thing is that devices can do double duty, and the same OS works on a variety of devices.
You can have a tablet computer to walk around with, and when you plug it into the base station, you have full keyboard/mouse control. Windows 8 will run every app that can run on Win7, so there is no need to use dumbed-down tablet applets when you are at your desk.
I'm looking forward to tablets that are real computers, capable of everything a regular PC is capable of.
I envision the base station having a massive external drive connected to it, so you've got all your data right there when you use the computer interface, with an easy and efficient way to drag and drop data onto the smaller local SSD for when you are out and about. You could even put the big programs on the external drive, using full-blown Office in the dock, and a pared-down tablet version when you are disconnected.
Not only that, but the WinTabs will allow a variety of inputs: Touchscreen with either finger or stylus, mouse, trackpad, Wacomm tablet, bluetooth or wired or USB keyboard. Outputs too: use the built-in small screen, use a good sized monitor, or use HDMI for your honking huge TV.
I hope that it works as well as envisioned. If so, it will mature the tablet paradigm into a variety of full-featured uses and devices.
I really like the idea of a tablet as a real computer instead of a limited-use appliance.
I've had a Windows 7 tablet before. DEAR. SWEET. JESUS. Yes you can use Windows apps on a tablet, but you really, really shouldn't. The lack of optimisation is a killer in every regard.
Even without the fan (pauses to keep face straight) is anyone going to buy this POS ?
There must be some smart people at Microsoft and at Samsung. So why is it all they can come up with is junk like this ? They can't even make a product that gives the iPad a run for its money, let alone bring something new and innovative to the tablet form. By the time this hits the market Apple will have moved on, and MS won't even have reached the point where the puck had been.
This must be an all time low for Microsoft and Samsung: it should never have been revealed to the public.
Can anyone explain why MS completely fail to understand design aesthetics on every level ?
I'm going to buy it. I've got this antivirus software that won't run on the iPad. Just add a keyboard and mouse, and an external monitor, and you have...a crippled PC! I can't wait for the future of Windows.
So if I can't open current Windows apps in the Metro tablet interface, I'm not clear on what Microsoft's split UI is really getting me.
The sales pitch seems to be that I can have a nice tablet UI, running new tablet friendly apps, which is fine. But then also if I need to do "real work" I can switch to "real Windows", whereupon I no longer have a nice tablet friendly UI. Yes, I can dock the tablet and work with a keyboard and mouse, but now I have a very small screen.
Am I misunderstanding? I seems as if I have a hybrid device that if it emphasizes size, weight and portability makes a useful tablet running a useful tablet OS that isn't actually Windows and isn't compatible with existing Windows software. Or, if it emphasizes power and desktop ergonomics, makes a good Windows machine for "real work" but a heavy, big tablet with short battery life,
How is this an improvement over having a tablet and a notebook/desktop? Sure, it's one device and I save a few bucks, but at what cost in usability?
The only way I could see this working is having smaller hardware with the tablet UI only. Then, when you plug it into a monitor, it becomes a desktop computer with the standard windows UI.
What I don't get is why the start button is now the "magic tablet UI summoning" button. I want to quickly press the button, click on MS Word and be done with it - clicking the start button then going through that interface with a mouse screams "yup! We have no idea what we are doing - more buttons, mr designer?" Only to have the designer bellow in return "I demand a million clicks!".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
I'm going to buy it. I've got this antivirus software that won't run on the iPad. Just add a keyboard and mouse, and an external monitor, and you have...a crippled PC! I can't wait for the future of Windows.
The future? I thought it was happening already.
Microsoft Windows, we break it so you don't have to
And how has that worked out for them? Years of failure you meant didn't you?
I suppose by failure you mean years of testing. It's worked out pretty well for them because they've built up more tablet experience than any software company on the planet. Even clunky they made tablets work even when the software wasn't designed to be used that way. Imagine what's going to happen now that the software is actually designed to take advatage of all tablets have to offer.
MS/Windows fans are thrilled to hear Windows 8 will do "everything" on a tablet - run both desktop applications and tablet apps. it's the culmination of a decade of MS' efforts to bring desktop Windows to a tablet. but there is a problem:
that's not what 90% of consumers want.
mostly they might like to be able to run Office on a tablet without all the other complications of a desktop OS. so they can use all their desktop computer's Office files easily back and forth, and they know how it works already.
the problem with Apple's iWorks for the iPad is that it is different enough from Office that consumers can't just open it and know how to do what they want without a learning curve. that's why iWorks has not been a big hit. and there is no direct and easy access to the Office files on your desktop computer from iWorks on the iPad.
an Office iPad app from MS would be a big hit - if the price were reasonable. but i don't expect to see it because MS knows it's the only popular exclusive feature they have to promote their own OS on tablets.
but bringing Office to a tablet in desktop style rather then re-writing a simplified Office app in tablet mode, like Apple did correctly with iWorks, is a huge stubborn mistake by MS. tablet users want easy-to-use apps, not "power," computing.
and jamming desktop Windows into a tablet, with all its hardware demands and UI complexity, is a real challenge. we'll see if MS can pull it off by next year while (1) matching the iPad in price, (2) matching the iPad in key consumer criteria like battery life, and (3) without significant delay past the summer target date, while (4) producing a result that "just works."
and this is all before the further complication of the Windows 8 tablet shotgun-marriage with the Mango smartphone OS too. geeks will love it, but watching the hands-on videos, it looked totally confusing for normal people to use both. i guess if you never bother to go to the desktop half it would be simple enough. except then you couldn't use Office!
this isn't what 90% of consumers want either.
but yes, this all leaves 10% of the tablet market for MS to shoot for. better than what they got today!
I suppose by failure you mean years of testing. It's worked out pretty well for them because they've built up more tablet experience than any software company on the planet. Even clunky they made tablets work even when the software wasn't designed to be used that way. Imagine what's going to happen now that the software is actually designed to take advatage of all tablets have to offer.
Tablet experience? What experience? They have never made a tablet OS. All they have done is stick windows on a touch screen and add a handwriting box. Never in the history of Windows have I seen a version of the OS specifically made for tablets. Windows 8 is the first.
So, what was so bad about the keyboard and mouse usage in that video? From what i saw, it responded quite naturally to mouse and keyboard input. Nor did anything looked awkward or out of place. In fact, it look as if he was able to quickly access most of the ui elements as easily with the mouse as he did with touch.
If you saw something wrong with how it handled mouse input, please, let me know, since i will most likely be using win8 on my desktop in a year with keyboard and mouse exclusively.
That's exactly the problem, its not suppose to be a laptop, its suppose to be a tablet... The whole POINT of a tablet is NOT having a keyboard and a mouse. People who need keyboard and mouse should buy laptops...
Tablet experience? What experience? They have never made a tablet OS. All they have done is stick windows on a touch screen and add a handwriting box. Never in the history of Windows have I seen a version of the OS specifically made for tablets. Windows 8 is the first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
That's exactly the problem, its not suppose to be a laptop, its suppose to be a tablet... The whole POINT of a tablet is NOT having a keyboard and a mouse. People who need keyboard and mouse should buy laptops...
You both don't understand. It's not about what the OS is "classified" as. It's totally about functionality. You consider a tablet some device powered by an ARM processor running purpose built software. Microsoft considers a tablet a device that works seamlessly as a PC and a purpose built device. This time around they may have just done it. We'll just have to wait and see.
That's exactly the problem, its not suppose to be a laptop, its suppose to be a tablet... The whole POINT of a tablet is NOT having a keyboard and a mouse. People who need keyboard and mouse should buy laptops...
People who need a productivity station need a keyboard and a mouse. A tablet should not just be for consuming software and media. A tablet with a wireless keyboard and mouse makes for a heck a portable workstation and is smaller than even an 11" MacBook Air.
Comments
Sounds good, as does the pane for split screen apps. Contracts are a great idea, but the thing with showing it off so early means it's difficult to imagine it fully realised. That said, looking forward to see what developers do with it. With "old Windows" to fall back on, how can Microsoft get them to develop proper Metro apps?
I wouldn't say it's a confidence thing - just that Microsoft have to cater to a diverse crowd. Which other projects have been scrapped, in line with the pre-Beta strategy? I'm foreseeing plenty of changes but odds of scrappage are quite low.
The Courier project springs to mind.
We'll have to see if this project ever comes to release in its present incarnation. I'll note your handle and check back
A tile is a big rectangular graphic element taking up a LOT of screen real estate.
aka, it's a big clunky icon...
"Icons are yesterday?s way of representing apps, tiles are today?s way of representing apps?
So the logic is Shrink the Screen and Make the Icons Huge!
Good move... A HUGE UI breakthrough...
Ballmer was the test subject. Have you seen his fat fingers?
Having said that, it's healthy for the tablet market to have some more competition and there will of course be uses and demand for a technical tablet that runs a full desktop OS.
I however will stick to the ease of use of the iOS as whenever I get down to serious work I sit at my desk with my iMac. IMO the tablet is for fun i.e. Surfing the web, watching video, playing a game etc etc.
It's not the software. It's the iPad's lack of a keyboard.
Sooo..... get the iPad keyboard dock. (And how is that in any way shape or form different than the Win8 tablet dock in the video?)
Seriously, people who treat the iPad as a toy simply aren't realizing it's potential and/or are deliberately ignoring solutions to their problems.
Wow. How times have changed. Apple used to be the brand for the tech-savvy rebel. Now it is the choice of the mass-market and the grandparents?
Some people think different from the mass market. Is Apple abandoning them? Sheep used to buy Microsoft. Now is Apple the brand for the sheep and the lemmings?
Dunno...
You've obviously never heard Apple's 1984 tagline for the original 128K Mac: "Macintosh, the computer for the rest of us."
It has rounded corners, but it does have quite sharp edges all around if you look it side. I accidentally hit my Lockwood house wall with it's edges, which resulted small dent a couple of times. It was a little push, but made dent and I can not do anything about it as the wall is naked lockwood house wall. Also, when my daughter of 3 years old hit my ellbow bone with it's edges, it hurts.
Seriously? This is your complaint, that if you whack it into something or someone it leaves a mark? Maybe you should just hold out for the NerfPad, and in the meantime get some elbow guards.
Are you kidding me? Microsoft was doing tablet form factor PCs years before the iPad was a thought. There is nothing remotely similar to an iPad here.
And how has that worked out for them? Years of failure you meant didn't you?
The really cool thing is that devices can do double duty, and the same OS works on a variety of devices.
You can have a tablet computer to walk around with, and when you plug it into the base station, you have full keyboard/mouse control. Windows 8 will run every app that can run on Win7, so there is no need to use dumbed-down tablet applets when you are at your desk.
I'm looking forward to tablets that are real computers, capable of everything a regular PC is capable of.
I envision the base station having a massive external drive connected to it, so you've got all your data right there when you use the computer interface, with an easy and efficient way to drag and drop data onto the smaller local SSD for when you are out and about. You could even put the big programs on the external drive, using full-blown Office in the dock, and a pared-down tablet version when you are disconnected.
Not only that, but the WinTabs will allow a variety of inputs: Touchscreen with either finger or stylus, mouse, trackpad, Wacomm tablet, bluetooth or wired or USB keyboard. Outputs too: use the built-in small screen, use a good sized monitor, or use HDMI for your honking huge TV.
I hope that it works as well as envisioned. If so, it will mature the tablet paradigm into a variety of full-featured uses and devices.
I really like the idea of a tablet as a real computer instead of a limited-use appliance.
I've had a Windows 7 tablet before. DEAR. SWEET. JESUS. Yes you can use Windows apps on a tablet, but you really, really shouldn't. The lack of optimisation is a killer in every regard.
Even without the fan (pauses to keep face straight) is anyone going to buy this POS ?
There must be some smart people at Microsoft and at Samsung. So why is it all they can come up with is junk like this ? They can't even make a product that gives the iPad a run for its money, let alone bring something new and innovative to the tablet form. By the time this hits the market Apple will have moved on, and MS won't even have reached the point where the puck had been.
This must be an all time low for Microsoft and Samsung: it should never have been revealed to the public.
Can anyone explain why MS completely fail to understand design aesthetics on every level ?
I'm going to buy it. I've got this antivirus software that won't run on the iPad. Just add a keyboard and mouse, and an external monitor, and you have...a crippled PC! I can't wait for the future of Windows.
So if I can't open current Windows apps in the Metro tablet interface, I'm not clear on what Microsoft's split UI is really getting me.
The sales pitch seems to be that I can have a nice tablet UI, running new tablet friendly apps, which is fine. But then also if I need to do "real work" I can switch to "real Windows", whereupon I no longer have a nice tablet friendly UI. Yes, I can dock the tablet and work with a keyboard and mouse, but now I have a very small screen.
Am I misunderstanding? I seems as if I have a hybrid device that if it emphasizes size, weight and portability makes a useful tablet running a useful tablet OS that isn't actually Windows and isn't compatible with existing Windows software. Or, if it emphasizes power and desktop ergonomics, makes a good Windows machine for "real work" but a heavy, big tablet with short battery life,
How is this an improvement over having a tablet and a notebook/desktop? Sure, it's one device and I save a few bucks, but at what cost in usability?
The only way I could see this working is having smaller hardware with the tablet UI only. Then, when you plug it into a monitor, it becomes a desktop computer with the standard windows UI.
What I don't get is why the start button is now the "magic tablet UI summoning" button. I want to quickly press the button, click on MS Word and be done with it - clicking the start button then going through that interface with a mouse screams "yup! We have no idea what we are doing - more buttons, mr designer?" Only to have the designer bellow in return "I demand a million clicks!".
I'm going to buy it. I've got this antivirus software that won't run on the iPad. Just add a keyboard and mouse, and an external monitor, and you have...a crippled PC! I can't wait for the future of Windows.
The future? I thought it was happening already.
Microsoft Windows, we break it so you don't have to
And how has that worked out for them? Years of failure you meant didn't you?
I suppose by failure you mean years of testing. It's worked out pretty well for them because they've built up more tablet experience than any software company on the planet. Even clunky they made tablets work even when the software wasn't designed to be used that way. Imagine what's going to happen now that the software is actually designed to take advatage of all tablets have to offer.
that's not what 90% of consumers want.
mostly they might like to be able to run Office on a tablet without all the other complications of a desktop OS. so they can use all their desktop computer's Office files easily back and forth, and they know how it works already.
the problem with Apple's iWorks for the iPad is that it is different enough from Office that consumers can't just open it and know how to do what they want without a learning curve. that's why iWorks has not been a big hit. and there is no direct and easy access to the Office files on your desktop computer from iWorks on the iPad.
an Office iPad app from MS would be a big hit - if the price were reasonable. but i don't expect to see it because MS knows it's the only popular exclusive feature they have to promote their own OS on tablets.
but bringing Office to a tablet in desktop style rather then re-writing a simplified Office app in tablet mode, like Apple did correctly with iWorks, is a huge stubborn mistake by MS. tablet users want easy-to-use apps, not "power," computing.
and jamming desktop Windows into a tablet, with all its hardware demands and UI complexity, is a real challenge. we'll see if MS can pull it off by next year while (1) matching the iPad in price, (2) matching the iPad in key consumer criteria like battery life, and (3) without significant delay past the summer target date, while (4) producing a result that "just works."
and this is all before the further complication of the Windows 8 tablet shotgun-marriage with the Mango smartphone OS too. geeks will love it, but watching the hands-on videos, it looked totally confusing for normal people to use both. i guess if you never bother to go to the desktop half it would be simple enough. except then you couldn't use Office!
this isn't what 90% of consumers want either.
but yes, this all leaves 10% of the tablet market for MS to shoot for. better than what they got today!
I suppose by failure you mean years of testing. It's worked out pretty well for them because they've built up more tablet experience than any software company on the planet. Even clunky they made tablets work even when the software wasn't designed to be used that way. Imagine what's going to happen now that the software is actually designed to take advatage of all tablets have to offer.
Tablet experience? What experience? They have never made a tablet OS. All they have done is stick windows on a touch screen and add a handwriting box. Never in the history of Windows have I seen a version of the OS specifically made for tablets. Windows 8 is the first.
So, what was so bad about the keyboard and mouse usage in that video? From what i saw, it responded quite naturally to mouse and keyboard input. Nor did anything looked awkward or out of place. In fact, it look as if he was able to quickly access most of the ui elements as easily with the mouse as he did with touch.
If you saw something wrong with how it handled mouse input, please, let me know, since i will most likely be using win8 on my desktop in a year with keyboard and mouse exclusively.
That's exactly the problem, its not suppose to be a laptop, its suppose to be a tablet... The whole POINT of a tablet is NOT having a keyboard and a mouse. People who need keyboard and mouse should buy laptops...
Tablet experience? What experience? They have never made a tablet OS. All they have done is stick windows on a touch screen and add a handwriting box. Never in the history of Windows have I seen a version of the OS specifically made for tablets. Windows 8 is the first.
That's exactly the problem, its not suppose to be a laptop, its suppose to be a tablet... The whole POINT of a tablet is NOT having a keyboard and a mouse. People who need keyboard and mouse should buy laptops...
You both don't understand. It's not about what the OS is "classified" as. It's totally about functionality. You consider a tablet some device powered by an ARM processor running purpose built software. Microsoft considers a tablet a device that works seamlessly as a PC and a purpose built device. This time around they may have just done it. We'll just have to wait and see.
That's exactly the problem, its not suppose to be a laptop, its suppose to be a tablet... The whole POINT of a tablet is NOT having a keyboard and a mouse. People who need keyboard and mouse should buy laptops...
People who need a productivity station need a keyboard and a mouse. A tablet should not just be for consuming software and media. A tablet with a wireless keyboard and mouse makes for a heck a portable workstation and is smaller than even an 11" MacBook Air.
Cool! A laptop without a hinge between the keyboard and screen.
Rule 1 when demoing a touch-screen interface... use the touch-screen interface...
Explain that to forum member majjo.