The problem with many anti Apple "reviews" that I've seen are obviously from people who just don't want to see Apple get good word about anything. We've got some of those people here. We know who they are, because almost all of their posts are negative.
I would put it differently. There are some Apple fans who unconditionally applaud to everything Apple does. And there are some real Apple fans who can criticize Apple. They are not Apple haters, they are here out of frustration that Apple products can not meet their needs.
Apple gets plenty of good reviews. Too much, to the extend that we practically have a cult of Apple, which does not help Apple at all.
Ultimately Apple exists to meet Apple's needs. If the market agrees with their choices they are rewarded if the market disagrees they are punished.
There is a very large group of people who complain about everything Apple does - no matter what Apple does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99
I would put it differently. There are some Apple fans who unconditionally applaud to everything Apple does. And there are some real Apple fans who can criticize Apple. They are not Apple haters, they are here out of frustration that Apple products can not meet their needs.
You've taken what Mel said out its proper context. He said he would not trust surveys from Apple. Google, or MS. He did not say he does not trust any survey.
He also said these types of surveys are useful for trends. You want to argue the merits of the numbers themselves.
Mel knows what I'm referring to. There's nothing out of context.
Quote:
"Because surveys aren't always useful. Going by the real, known numbers tells us more. You don't have to of course. Nielsen has had its own scandals in the past. I rather use real numbers if possible."
I would describe that a bit differently to say we don't want features implemented the same way they are on other phones. We make a big deal of when Apple implements the feature better than other had done.
So if I want a 4.5" screen iPhone, I don't see how Apple could implement it "differently" and "better than other"? (using technology available today, of course)
Yes, 3.5" is a good size for many people, but not for everyone. Why worlds biggest company can not release a couple more screen sizes? Eventually Apple will be forced to do that and then it will become a big deal.
Most average users probably either presume their current android experience is optimal, or find it very hard to differentiate between nexus/samsung/motorola/HTC etc. This is less about blind dedication to a brand than it is loyalty to a particular ecosystem or interface, something these hardware makers have failed in, or android has failed them in. If android in fact decreases the stickiness of a hardware manufacturer's phones, the impetus to continue using it to power their phones over a custom solution is what, exactly? Ease? Look at where his has gotten PC manufacturers (think IBM, HP).
Believe it or not most people are aware if their phone has a hard where problem or if they are not enjoying android OS. Some one will be more likely to get mad at HTC for its poor battery life and attempt another android phone like the galaxy after seeing a friends battery life.
Hmm, interesting you'd consider this particular survey valid because it's posted elsewhere. Since this one was done in conjunction with a marketing plan put forth by the survey producer I'm surprised you'd not see the obvious redflags. Even 9to5 Mac writes that it's not something they necessarily put much stock in, and that's a strongly pro-Apple venue.
"The survey may not be terribly accurate due to a small sample size, but it helps understand market trends" is one of the more diplomatic views of the surveys trustworthiness/accuracy. Your link to a survey of several thousand by a source with no horse in the race (Nielsen) is the type that I personally consider more likely to have valid results. Thanks for that.
So your question is a strawman IMO. The current debate is whether this survey's results, standing alone, can be considered valid for extrapolating a claim on the overall average Android/iOS anticipated retention rates. Surely publication by other blogs is not evidence of validity is it? You've already stated you don't trust surveys, even those repeated by several blog sites. Why do you suddenly trust this one?
To answer your unrelated question (IMHO), yes I too tend to question posters who blindly support any particular company regardless of the news or subject.
The only negative comment by them was that the sample is fairly small. That's not a negative. In a poll of that size, it's a plus or minus 4% accuracy level. That is, 4% of each number. So if a number is 39%, it would be plus or minus 4% of that. Not so bad. Even a poll of 100 people is usable if done properly. And accuracy accumulates. That means if several small polls are taken, the total accuracy is about equal of one poll that totals all of this polled in the individual polls. It isn't exactly that simple, of course, but the principle is correct.
And of course, you try to turn my words around. And I'm not talking about blog sites. I made it VERY clear that I was talking about business and financial sites. That's another thing you do. You change what's been said to make it seem as thought the information that disagrees with you is of less importance, when it usually is more.
And as you don't like small polls, don't quote anything under 3,000 people surveyed.
So if I want a 4.5" screen iPhone, I don't see how Apple could implement it "differently" and "better than other"? (using technology available today, of course)
Yes, 3.5" is a good size for many people, but not for everyone. Why worlds biggest company can not release a couple more screen sizes? Eventually Apple will be forced to do that and then it will become a big deal.
You are still deflecting like crazy. OK - now it's screens. Why do Apple need to produce more models with different screen sizes? Because some people want something bigger than 3.5"? Once you try to satisfy every possible customer wish list, where does it end?
Apple's business model is not to do that. They try to make products that people want to buy, and make money doing it, at which they are succeeding better than any other company out there. You apparently think that their approach is all wrong, which, right now, is such an obviously untenable position that you are finding you can't actually defend your arguments. What, exactly, would you say you are trying to achieve here?
The only negative comment by them was that the sample is fairly small. That's not a negative. In a poll of that size, it's a plus or minus 4% accuracy level. That is, 4% of each number. So if a number is 39%, it would be plus or minus 4% of that. Not so bad. Even a poll of 100 people is usable if done properly. And accuracy accumulates. That means if several small polls are taken, the total accuracy is about equal of one poll that totals all of this polled in the individual polls. It isn't exactly that simple, of course, but the principle is correct.
And of course, you try to turn my words around. And I'm not talking about blog sites. I made it VERY clear that I was talking about business and financial sites. That's another thing you do. You change what's been said to make it seem as thought the information that disagrees with you is of less importance, when it usually is more.
And as you don't like small polls, don't quote anything under 3,000 people surveyed.
But the link you gave for the "other" survey for proof was a financial site. With data from Nielsen which you apparently don't have much faith in since they've "had their own scandals.". As for small polls, I don't necessarily have an issue with them if, as you say, they're done right.
No matter really. We simply disagree on whether this was a well-constructed survey with no appearance of subjectivity. No more benefit to stretching it out.
b) you get an Android handset, your next phone is an iPhone.
c) you get an iPhone, you want to try out Android next, then you go back to iPhone.
People think that Android is a viable alternative until they try it. Some people can deal with it, usually tech heads who like to tinker, but they are a small population.
Then, of course there are always those who would never buy anything Apple (which is a shrinking population).
That's myth.
A good friend of mine got Android phone recently for his mom. Now... guy uses iPhone at the moment, so while iPhone was more logical choice from the support point of view, it was too expensive for this scenario - lady was using old non-touchscreen feature phone and was reluctant about touch screens and "complicated" gadgets... so friend didn't know if she's really going to use it at all.
Let me tell you something: she is all over it.
It is not that she would not be happy - or even more happy - with iPhone, but she had no problem at all digging into this one. She is Skyping, doing Facebook, checking emails, browsing. She has downloaded number of apps - mostly funny useless ones like "Tom the talking cat" and likes - those things seem to amuse her friends a lot (60+ of age), dumped some music on it, using camera for both photos and videos.
And she is person who - I know personally - hates computers and any tech more complicated than remote for her TV. As far from tech person as you get.
Android is still not smooth and polished as iOS, but on a scale between useless mess and iOS, it is much closer to iOS than many people around here think. In my opinion, it is already a way from "too complicated for average user".
Sure there are a lot of factors to increasing screen size. In many Android phones increasing the screen size also increases the thickness and weight of the phone. The phone may have to have a larger battery or sacrifice battery life to have a thinner phone. With that the pixel density at the same resolution decreases as the screen size increases.
If Apple increased the size of the iPhone screen. They would want to do so while increasing battery life, decreasing the thickness and weight of the phone, and either increasing pixel density or at the very least not decreasing pixel density. All of that is a big challenge that none of the Android phone makers have been able to meet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99
So if I want a 4.5" screen iPhone, I don't see how Apple could implement it "differently" and "better than other"? (using technology available today, of course)
As addicted44 wrote: "Oh wait, there you go conflating phones with platform when it suits you...."
Nope, still talking platforms. TFA: "Android fared better when users were asked solely about software, as 55 percent said they would stick with Google's mobile platform."
Again, nearly half are considering switching away from Android.
Who exactly was polled? Existing iPhone users?! Of course the data is going to be skewed. Or was smartphone users? Or merely all CELLphone users?
At any rate, it's not new news that iPhone users love their iPhones and are unlikely to give them up.
Or, you know, you could read the article. In case that's out of the question, smartphone owners were asked about brand loyalty. So, yes, iPhone owners were asked about iPhones, as Android owners were asked about Android, etc.
While it might not be "new news", it represents an effort to quantify degrees of satisfaction, allowing those numbers to be tracked over time.
Comments
The problem with many anti Apple "reviews" that I've seen are obviously from people who just don't want to see Apple get good word about anything. We've got some of those people here. We know who they are, because almost all of their posts are negative.
I would put it differently. There are some Apple fans who unconditionally applaud to everything Apple does. And there are some real Apple fans who can criticize Apple. They are not Apple haters, they are here out of frustration that Apple products can not meet their needs.
Apple gets plenty of good reviews. Too much, to the extend that we practically have a cult of Apple, which does not help Apple at all.
There is a very large group of people who complain about everything Apple does - no matter what Apple does.
I would put it differently. There are some Apple fans who unconditionally applaud to everything Apple does. And there are some real Apple fans who can criticize Apple. They are not Apple haters, they are here out of frustration that Apple products can not meet their needs.
You've taken what Mel said out its proper context. He said he would not trust surveys from Apple. Google, or MS. He did not say he does not trust any survey.
He also said these types of surveys are useful for trends. You want to argue the merits of the numbers themselves.
Mel knows what I'm referring to. There's nothing out of context.
Quote:
"Because surveys aren't always useful. Going by the real, known numbers tells us more. You don't have to of course. Nielsen has had its own scandals in the past. I rather use real numbers if possible."
I would describe that a bit differently to say we don't want features implemented the same way they are on other phones. We make a big deal of when Apple implements the feature better than other had done.
So if I want a 4.5" screen iPhone, I don't see how Apple could implement it "differently" and "better than other"? (using technology available today, of course)
Yes, 3.5" is a good size for many people, but not for everyone. Why worlds biggest company can not release a couple more screen sizes? Eventually Apple will be forced to do that and then it will become a big deal.
Most average users probably either presume their current android experience is optimal, or find it very hard to differentiate between nexus/samsung/motorola/HTC etc. This is less about blind dedication to a brand than it is loyalty to a particular ecosystem or interface, something these hardware makers have failed in, or android has failed them in. If android in fact decreases the stickiness of a hardware manufacturer's phones, the impetus to continue using it to power their phones over a custom solution is what, exactly? Ease? Look at where his has gotten PC manufacturers (think IBM, HP).
Believe it or not most people are aware if their phone has a hard where problem or if they are not enjoying android OS. Some one will be more likely to get mad at HTC for its poor battery life and attempt another android phone like the galaxy after seeing a friends battery life.
Hmm, interesting you'd consider this particular survey valid because it's posted elsewhere. Since this one was done in conjunction with a marketing plan put forth by the survey producer I'm surprised you'd not see the obvious redflags. Even 9to5 Mac writes that it's not something they necessarily put much stock in, and that's a strongly pro-Apple venue.
"The survey may not be terribly accurate due to a small sample size, but it helps understand market trends" is one of the more diplomatic views of the surveys trustworthiness/accuracy. Your link to a survey of several thousand by a source with no horse in the race (Nielsen) is the type that I personally consider more likely to have valid results. Thanks for that.
So your question is a strawman IMO. The current debate is whether this survey's results, standing alone, can be considered valid for extrapolating a claim on the overall average Android/iOS anticipated retention rates. Surely publication by other blogs is not evidence of validity is it? You've already stated you don't trust surveys, even those repeated by several blog sites. Why do you suddenly trust this one?
To answer your unrelated question (IMHO), yes I too tend to question posters who blindly support any particular company regardless of the news or subject.
The only negative comment by them was that the sample is fairly small. That's not a negative. In a poll of that size, it's a plus or minus 4% accuracy level. That is, 4% of each number. So if a number is 39%, it would be plus or minus 4% of that. Not so bad. Even a poll of 100 people is usable if done properly. And accuracy accumulates. That means if several small polls are taken, the total accuracy is about equal of one poll that totals all of this polled in the individual polls. It isn't exactly that simple, of course, but the principle is correct.
And of course, you try to turn my words around. And I'm not talking about blog sites. I made it VERY clear that I was talking about business and financial sites. That's another thing you do. You change what's been said to make it seem as thought the information that disagrees with you is of less importance, when it usually is more.
And as you don't like small polls, don't quote anything under 3,000 people surveyed.
So if I want a 4.5" screen iPhone, I don't see how Apple could implement it "differently" and "better than other"? (using technology available today, of course)
Yes, 3.5" is a good size for many people, but not for everyone. Why worlds biggest company can not release a couple more screen sizes? Eventually Apple will be forced to do that and then it will become a big deal.
You are still deflecting like crazy. OK - now it's screens. Why do Apple need to produce more models with different screen sizes? Because some people want something bigger than 3.5"? Once you try to satisfy every possible customer wish list, where does it end?
Apple's business model is not to do that. They try to make products that people want to buy, and make money doing it, at which they are succeeding better than any other company out there. You apparently think that their approach is all wrong, which, right now, is such an obviously untenable position that you are finding you can't actually defend your arguments. What, exactly, would you say you are trying to achieve here?
The only negative comment by them was that the sample is fairly small. That's not a negative. In a poll of that size, it's a plus or minus 4% accuracy level. That is, 4% of each number. So if a number is 39%, it would be plus or minus 4% of that. Not so bad. Even a poll of 100 people is usable if done properly. And accuracy accumulates. That means if several small polls are taken, the total accuracy is about equal of one poll that totals all of this polled in the individual polls. It isn't exactly that simple, of course, but the principle is correct.
And of course, you try to turn my words around. And I'm not talking about blog sites. I made it VERY clear that I was talking about business and financial sites. That's another thing you do. You change what's been said to make it seem as thought the information that disagrees with you is of less importance, when it usually is more.
And as you don't like small polls, don't quote anything under 3,000 people surveyed.
But the link you gave for the "other" survey for proof was a financial site. With data from Nielsen which you apparently don't have much faith in since they've "had their own scandals.". As for small polls, I don't necessarily have an issue with them if, as you say, they're done right.
No matter really. We simply disagree on whether this was a well-constructed survey with no appearance of subjectivity. No more benefit to stretching it out.
all roads lead to the iPhone.
a) you get an iPhone you stick with it.
b) you get an Android handset, your next phone is an iPhone.
c) you get an iPhone, you want to try out Android next, then you go back to iPhone.
People think that Android is a viable alternative until they try it. Some people can deal with it, usually tech heads who like to tinker, but they are a small population.
Then, of course there are always those who would never buy anything Apple (which is a shrinking population).
That's myth.
A good friend of mine got Android phone recently for his mom. Now... guy uses iPhone at the moment, so while iPhone was more logical choice from the support point of view, it was too expensive for this scenario - lady was using old non-touchscreen feature phone and was reluctant about touch screens and "complicated" gadgets... so friend didn't know if she's really going to use it at all.
Let me tell you something: she is all over it.
It is not that she would not be happy - or even more happy - with iPhone, but she had no problem at all digging into this one. She is Skyping, doing Facebook, checking emails, browsing. She has downloaded number of apps - mostly funny useless ones like "Tom the talking cat" and likes - those things seem to amuse her friends a lot (60+ of age), dumped some music on it, using camera for both photos and videos.
And she is person who - I know personally - hates computers and any tech more complicated than remote for her TV. As far from tech person as you get.
Android is still not smooth and polished as iOS, but on a scale between useless mess and iOS, it is much closer to iOS than many people around here think. In my opinion, it is already a way from "too complicated for average user".
You signed up to post that.. are you fucking kidding me!
Maybe you're trying to tell us something...
Sorry, was just a quick quip! Love my iPh4...
Of course, the future iPhone 4G would use "significantly less power", hardly any power at all
Whatever. I don't know what your problem is, but I'm going to add you to my ignore list, because your style of 'discussion' annoys me.
If Apple increased the size of the iPhone screen. They would want to do so while increasing battery life, decreasing the thickness and weight of the phone, and either increasing pixel density or at the very least not decreasing pixel density. All of that is a big challenge that none of the Android phone makers have been able to meet.
So if I want a 4.5" screen iPhone, I don't see how Apple could implement it "differently" and "better than other"? (using technology available today, of course)
As addicted44 wrote: "Oh wait, there you go conflating phones with platform when it suits you...."
Nope, still talking platforms. TFA: "Android fared better when users were asked solely about software, as 55 percent said they would stick with Google's mobile platform."
Again, nearly half are considering switching away from Android.
At any rate, it's not new news that iPhone users love their iPhones and are unlikely to give them up.
Who exactly was polled? Existing iPhone users?! Of course the data is going to be skewed. Or was smartphone users? Or merely all CELLphone users?
At any rate, it's not new news that iPhone users love their iPhones and are unlikely to give them up.
Or, you know, you could read the article. In case that's out of the question, smartphone owners were asked about brand loyalty. So, yes, iPhone owners were asked about iPhones, as Android owners were asked about Android, etc.
While it might not be "new news", it represents an effort to quantify degrees of satisfaction, allowing those numbers to be tracked over time.