According to Oracle's pleadings its biggest beef with Google is that Android destroys Java interoperability, which is a big no no because that stands against Java's write once run every where purpose. It is the same grievance Java's previous owner Sun had with Microsoft when Microsoft tried to create its own variant of Java that killed interoperability. As a data base company it only makes sense that Oracle would be interested in interoperability with Java between platforms.
I think Oracle wants 1) a big chunk of money from Google to address the past wrongs (far more the the 100 million Google would be willing to pay), and 2) for Google to comply with the Java license. If Google complies with the license, there is no need for Google to pay a future licensing fee.
I doubt Oracle wants to kill Android outright because that would be against its own economic interests. If it wants a reoccurring revenue stream, I doubt it would be large as Oracle wouldn't want to kill the revenue stream. Google is said to make about 6 a year on each Android device sold through advertisements. If so, Google could probably afford to give up a dollar a year and not be significantly hurt.
All of you guys really should read the analysis of this at Fosspatents. This is a very complex situation, and isn't subject to a simple resolution.
Thanks for the link. Wow ... It seems from this Google used very shady tactics. My question is why? Was it to fast track copying iOS from a standing start once Schmidt had the inside info or some other reason? Why didn't they used the same approach as others and stay legal?
So what if the guy has some bias. So do most things you read today, especially from so called News organizations like Fox News. That doesn't make the guy's views invalid. Further, "useless material" seems pretty harsh, considering the guy along with his opinions actual posts the legal pleading for you to read yourself so you can form your own opinions.
Most so called news outlets don't even post the actual pleadings. They give you the dumbed down version of the pleadings, which are also usually biased. Some might also appreciate that the legal pleadings Foss patents publishes would actually generally cost you money to obtain. Seems pretty valuable to me.
Perhaps you could suggest an alternative place where people can easily and without cost find the relevant legal pleadings for Apple's legal battles along with follow along commentary that isn't biased.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boby_k
I suggest never read Fosspatents. It is biased useless material. Take a look at it yourself.
You're wrong. According to some of the most loyal members of this forum, Google's nothing more than a bunch of rapists who should be burned alive.
No trial needed. Enough of these words! Let's get right to the lynchin', like a good 'murkin does!
Nope, just want Google to come out with a bit of honesty and drop that "Don't be evil" rubbish...
...oh, and for all the seemingly brainwashed idiots to pause, think and stop supporting everything Google does on fora all over the Internet, in a sickening display of blind adoration.
Apple closed, yeah we get that, they never claim not to be.
I just die a little inside when it's assumed that Apple makes the best solutions for everyone. Killing Android will not be a good thing for consumers.
If it forces other manufacturers to develop their own OSs, rather than rely on others to do it for them .... it will be good for consumers. Who knows, maybe a miracle will happen and someone will develop something even better than Apple .... not likely, but it could happen.
I believe Google has the money to just buy Oracle. Don't tempt them... Honestly, this software patent crap is so far out of hand it's ridiculous. It used to not be this way and we had lots of innovation. Software patents block innovation.
Software thieves block innovation .... by taking away the motivation to innovate. Why innovate when you can just steal?
Are you people crackers or something? Us iPhone users WANT Android to succeed and be better and better. Competition fules innovation. If iOS had no competition, it wouldn't move ahead so far so quickly. As a user, you WANT the competition to be successful just enough to fuel the manufacturer of your product to constantly strive to release a better product.
I believe Google has the money to just buy Oracle. Don't tempt them... Honestly, this software patent crap is so far out of hand it's ridiculous. It used to not be this way and we had lots of innovation. Software patents block innovation.
Can we please kill the mindless "competition makes it all better" crap? It doesn't. It often has no good effect at all and sometimes makes things worse. We have crap for cell service in the US because of mindless free trade talk. Please for the love of all things good stop.
First of all there is no evidence at all that competition makes iOS any better. None. It might, it might not. Declaring it so by fiat is a logical fallacy, and pointless.
Second, even if competition did always make products better, which it still doesn't, that doesn't excuse theft. If google is effectively stealing by using an I implementation of java, then they are in the wrong, and the rightful owners can, to quote a post, nuke it from orbit if they wish.
I repeat for the mindless android/Linux zealots, theft is not freedom, and no philosophy or anthropomorphism of information makes it so. Grow up
Lastly, if competition does improve anything, it can be done by fair competition. Windows phone, for all the crap it gets, is the first original product MS has made since bob, and their only good product yet. Let that compete. Theft is not competition, it is theft. I am sorry it takes someone who works in ethics to point this out, but hey, here is your daily clue bat beating....
Nope, just want Google to come out with a bit of honesty and drop that "Don't be evil" rubbish...
...oh, and for all the seemingly brainwashed idiots to pause, think and stop supporting everything Google does on fora all over the Internet, in a sickening display of blind adoration.
Apple closed, yeah we get that, they never claim not to be.
Can we please kill the mindless "competition makes it all better" crap? It doesn't. It often has no good effect at all and sometimes makes things worse. We have crap for cell service in the US because of mindless free trade talk. Please for the love of all things good stop.
First of all there is no evidence at all that competition makes iOS any better. None. It might, it might not. Declaring it so by fiat is a logical fallacy, and pointless.
Second, even if competition did always make products better, which it still doesn't, that doesn't excuse theft. If google is effectively stealing by using an I implementation of java, then they are in the wrong, and the rightful owners can, to quote a post, nuke it from orbit if they wish.
I repeat for the mindless android/Linux zealots, theft is not freedom, and no philosophy or anthropomorphism of information makes it so. Grow up
Lastly, if competition does improve anything, it can be done by fair competition. Windows phone, for all the crap it gets, is the first original product MS has made since bob, and their only good product yet. Let that compete. Theft is not competition, it is theft. I am sorry it takes someone who works in ethics to point this out, but hey, here is your daily clue bat beating....
So Google is guilty until proven innocent. Gotcha.
Some things shouldn't be patentable. Slide to unlock for instance.
We have become overly patenting beings. If the same efforts to "protect intellectual property" were in place since the beginning of man we'd be nowhere.
They may be guilty. Sure. And if so they should pay. But some of these violations are against patents that shouldn't exist in the first place. Tech always built off tech. Hence why Android shifted into a more icon based OS after the reveal of the iPhone, hence why iOS 5 has notifications clearly inspired by Android. Hence why phones are getting thinner and faster hence why resolution is improving hence why tech. Is advancing period. Stealing is wrong sure. But the system is wronger.
I am all for punishing flat out copying (certain galaxy S phones and touchwiz overall) but this is simply getting out of hand.
Currently, if I want an iPhone, I have to choose from either Verizon or AT&T. Want a slide-out keyboard? Sorry, screw you. Want LTE? Sorry, screw you. Want WiMAX? Sorry, screw you. Want a screen size larger than 3.5 inches? Sorry, screw you. Want a dual-core processor, removable battery, removable storage (microSD), HDMI-out? Sorry, screw... oh well, you get the point.
Nobody is suggesting that other devices can't be made .... only that the software that they run on not be a blatant copy of someone else's design.
So Google is guilty until proven innocent. Gotcha.
Yep, that is why I included "if" they stole.
So you can't read as well as being a mindless drone? Gotcha.
<edit> BTW, nice massive edit to your post. Doesn't make it any more reasonable.
Whether you are unhappy with all this litigation or not, neither you nor google can break laws or contracts. That remains wrong. If (that magic word that points out that I am not god like or omniscient and do not know whether they have or not) google has either stolen, copied, or simply remade against the contract they accepted by using java as a frame work, then they should be taken to task for it. Because you feel bad about all these lawsuits means exactly nothing. Get over it.
The rest of your comment showed you already made up your mind. Don't try and play the semantics game like you all love to do.
Ok "reasonable rational" person, explain what in my comment says I have made up my mind at all. The vast majority of it is about people who worship at the foot of the god of the totally open market. I only mention google because that was what started the talk. I personally know nearly nothing about the case.
That is some weapons grade projection there I think. Let me know if it works out for ya...
So Oracle kills Android, and Apple rules the field?
Come on, I like Apple as much as the next guy, but having a market dominated by Apple is in no means a good thing for consumers. Most customers like choice.
It doesn't have to be All Apple or Nothing.
Hell, I like BMWs, but I wouldn't wish BMW ownership on everyone either. I'm happy with my 2011 Hyundai (a company that is always accused of ripping off other companies' designs).
You're waaay too dramatic.
First how do you equate the "end of Android" with the "end of choice"? RIM, Microsoft, HP, and even Samsung just called to say, "hello, we're still here." If Android went away tomorrow, what do you think their former licensees would do? Hint: it's not pack up and die.
Second, Oracle isn't going to kill Android. They're going to get Java IP properly licensed and paid for. Google thought they could get away with it, now they can't. Fine. Now they're going to have to grow up and be responsible corporate citizens and technology player like the firms that have been doing this for 30 years or more. Play time is over, Google: finish your apple juice and get your licensing in order.
Third, there will always be choices. The global cell phone market (heck, even just the global smartphone market) is HUGE and Apple's no where near 100% of that market.
I suggest never read Fosspatents. It is biased useless material. Take a look at it yourself.
I read it all the tine, and you're wrong. He's a very respected expert. He's not even in favor of software patents. But you don't like him because he tells it like it is. And that bothers people who don't like seeing Google on the short side of the stick.
Comments
I think Oracle wants 1) a big chunk of money from Google to address the past wrongs (far more the the 100 million Google would be willing to pay), and 2) for Google to comply with the Java license. If Google complies with the license, there is no need for Google to pay a future licensing fee.
I doubt Oracle wants to kill Android outright because that would be against its own economic interests. If it wants a reoccurring revenue stream, I doubt it would be large as Oracle wouldn't want to kill the revenue stream. Google is said to make about 6 a year on each Android device sold through advertisements. If so, Google could probably afford to give up a dollar a year and not be significantly hurt.
All of you guys really should read the analysis of this at Fosspatents. This is a very complex situation, and isn't subject to a simple resolution.
Thanks for the link. Wow ... It seems from this Google used very shady tactics. My question is why? Was it to fast track copying iOS from a standing start once Schmidt had the inside info or some other reason? Why didn't they used the same approach as others and stay legal?
Most so called news outlets don't even post the actual pleadings. They give you the dumbed down version of the pleadings, which are also usually biased. Some might also appreciate that the legal pleadings Foss patents publishes would actually generally cost you money to obtain. Seems pretty valuable to me.
Perhaps you could suggest an alternative place where people can easily and without cost find the relevant legal pleadings for Apple's legal battles along with follow along commentary that isn't biased.
I suggest never read Fosspatents. It is biased useless material. Take a look at it yourself.
Mueller analysis of the talks suggests
With apologies to Tallest Skil, here's today's next typo.
You're wrong. According to some of the most loyal members of this forum, Google's nothing more than a bunch of rapists who should be burned alive.
No trial needed. Enough of these words! Let's get right to the lynchin', like a good 'murkin does!
Nope, just want Google to come out with a bit of honesty and drop that "Don't be evil" rubbish...
...oh, and for all the seemingly brainwashed idiots to pause, think and stop supporting everything Google does on fora all over the Internet, in a sickening display of blind adoration.
Apple closed, yeah we get that, they never claim not to be.
Is this the case?
Any Android programmer here on the forum that can verify Oracle's take?
Google really should be ashamed.
Good luck with that. There is no honor among thieves. ........
I just die a little inside when it's assumed that Apple makes the best solutions for everyone. Killing Android will not be a good thing for consumers.
If it forces other manufacturers to develop their own OSs, rather than rely on others to do it for them .... it will be good for consumers. Who knows, maybe a miracle will happen and someone will develop something even better than Apple .... not likely, but it could happen.
I believe Google has the money to just buy Oracle. Don't tempt them... Honestly, this software patent crap is so far out of hand it's ridiculous. It used to not be this way and we had lots of innovation. Software patents block innovation.
Software thieves block innovation .... by taking away the motivation to innovate. Why innovate when you can just steal?
YES!!! You go, Oracle!!! Time to finally fight back against the thieves!!!
Those bastards at Google need to be taught a huge lesson. This certainly isn't the first thing Google has stolen & raped & pillaged:
http://brianshall.com/content/google-are-pussies
Whoa! Not so fast. Remember of the Golden Rule of Fandroidism: "When Google Does It, It's Not Evil?."
Are you people crackers or something? Us iPhone users WANT Android to succeed and be better and better. Competition fules innovation. If iOS had no competition, it wouldn't move ahead so far so quickly. As a user, you WANT the competition to be successful just enough to fuel the manufacturer of your product to constantly strive to release a better product.
I believe Google has the money to just buy Oracle. Don't tempt them... Honestly, this software patent crap is so far out of hand it's ridiculous. It used to not be this way and we had lots of innovation. Software patents block innovation.
Can we please kill the mindless "competition makes it all better" crap? It doesn't. It often has no good effect at all and sometimes makes things worse. We have crap for cell service in the US because of mindless free trade talk. Please for the love of all things good stop.
First of all there is no evidence at all that competition makes iOS any better. None. It might, it might not. Declaring it so by fiat is a logical fallacy, and pointless.
Second, even if competition did always make products better, which it still doesn't, that doesn't excuse theft. If google is effectively stealing by using an I implementation of java, then they are in the wrong, and the rightful owners can, to quote a post, nuke it from orbit if they wish.
I repeat for the mindless android/Linux zealots, theft is not freedom, and no philosophy or anthropomorphism of information makes it so. Grow up
Lastly, if competition does improve anything, it can be done by fair competition. Windows phone, for all the crap it gets, is the first original product MS has made since bob, and their only good product yet. Let that compete. Theft is not competition, it is theft. I am sorry it takes someone who works in ethics to point this out, but hey, here is your daily clue bat beating....
Nope, just want Google to come out with a bit of honesty and drop that "Don't be evil" rubbish...
...oh, and for all the seemingly brainwashed idiots to pause, think and stop supporting everything Google does on fora all over the Internet, in a sickening display of blind adoration.
Apple closed, yeah we get that, they never claim not to be.
And you obliterated my irony meter.
Can we please kill the mindless "competition makes it all better" crap? It doesn't. It often has no good effect at all and sometimes makes things worse. We have crap for cell service in the US because of mindless free trade talk. Please for the love of all things good stop.
First of all there is no evidence at all that competition makes iOS any better. None. It might, it might not. Declaring it so by fiat is a logical fallacy, and pointless.
Second, even if competition did always make products better, which it still doesn't, that doesn't excuse theft. If google is effectively stealing by using an I implementation of java, then they are in the wrong, and the rightful owners can, to quote a post, nuke it from orbit if they wish.
I repeat for the mindless android/Linux zealots, theft is not freedom, and no philosophy or anthropomorphism of information makes it so. Grow up
Lastly, if competition does improve anything, it can be done by fair competition. Windows phone, for all the crap it gets, is the first original product MS has made since bob, and their only good product yet. Let that compete. Theft is not competition, it is theft. I am sorry it takes someone who works in ethics to point this out, but hey, here is your daily clue bat beating....
So Google is guilty until proven innocent. Gotcha.
Some things shouldn't be patentable. Slide to unlock for instance.
We have become overly patenting beings. If the same efforts to "protect intellectual property" were in place since the beginning of man we'd be nowhere.
They may be guilty. Sure. And if so they should pay. But some of these violations are against patents that shouldn't exist in the first place. Tech always built off tech. Hence why Android shifted into a more icon based OS after the reveal of the iPhone, hence why iOS 5 has notifications clearly inspired by Android. Hence why phones are getting thinner and faster hence why resolution is improving hence why tech. Is advancing period. Stealing is wrong sure. But the system is wronger.
I am all for punishing flat out copying (certain galaxy S phones and touchwiz overall) but this is simply getting out of hand.
Currently, if I want an iPhone, I have to choose from either Verizon or AT&T. Want a slide-out keyboard? Sorry, screw you. Want LTE? Sorry, screw you. Want WiMAX? Sorry, screw you. Want a screen size larger than 3.5 inches? Sorry, screw you. Want a dual-core processor, removable battery, removable storage (microSD), HDMI-out? Sorry, screw... oh well, you get the point.
Nobody is suggesting that other devices can't be made .... only that the software that they run on not be a blatant copy of someone else's design.
So Google is guilty until proven innocent. Gotcha.
Yep, that is why I included "if" they stole.
So you can't read as well as being a mindless drone? Gotcha.
<edit> BTW, nice massive edit to your post. Doesn't make it any more reasonable.
Whether you are unhappy with all this litigation or not, neither you nor google can break laws or contracts. That remains wrong. If (that magic word that points out that I am not god like or omniscient and do not know whether they have or not) google has either stolen, copied, or simply remade against the contract they accepted by using java as a frame work, then they should be taken to task for it. Because you feel bad about all these lawsuits means exactly nothing. Get over it.
So Google is guilty until proven innocent. Gotcha.
Oh no, they'll have their day in court. And then they will be proven guilty.
This is the just the pre-game show featuring the usual commentators. I thought you knew that.
Yep, that is why I included "if" they stole.
So you can't read as well as being a mindless drone? Gotcha.
The rest of your comment showed you already made up your mind. Don't try and play the semantics game like you all love to do.
The rest of your comment showed you already made up your mind. Don't try and play the semantics game like you all love to do.
Ok "reasonable rational" person, explain what in my comment says I have made up my mind at all. The vast majority of it is about people who worship at the foot of the god of the totally open market. I only mention google because that was what started the talk. I personally know nearly nothing about the case.
That is some weapons grade projection there I think. Let me know if it works out for ya...
So Oracle kills Android, and Apple rules the field?
Come on, I like Apple as much as the next guy, but having a market dominated by Apple is in no means a good thing for consumers. Most customers like choice.
It doesn't have to be All Apple or Nothing.
Hell, I like BMWs, but I wouldn't wish BMW ownership on everyone either. I'm happy with my 2011 Hyundai (a company that is always accused of ripping off other companies' designs).
You're waaay too dramatic.
First how do you equate the "end of Android" with the "end of choice"? RIM, Microsoft, HP, and even Samsung just called to say, "hello, we're still here." If Android went away tomorrow, what do you think their former licensees would do? Hint: it's not pack up and die.
Second, Oracle isn't going to kill Android. They're going to get Java IP properly licensed and paid for. Google thought they could get away with it, now they can't. Fine. Now they're going to have to grow up and be responsible corporate citizens and technology player like the firms that have been doing this for 30 years or more. Play time is over, Google: finish your apple juice and get your licensing in order.
Third, there will always be choices. The global cell phone market (heck, even just the global smartphone market) is HUGE and Apple's no where near 100% of that market.
Fourth, Mazda 3s drives a Hyundai?
I suggest never read Fosspatents. It is biased useless material. Take a look at it yourself.
I read it all the tine, and you're wrong. He's a very respected expert. He's not even in favor of software patents. But you don't like him because he tells it like it is. And that bothers people who don't like seeing Google on the short side of the stick.