I agree. A simplified Android device with a name people know and trust with a baked in reason to want it (lets get one honey, if you don't like all that app stuff at worst it is still a nice kindle) should be a no brainer. I think Amazon would be fools to not be working on it.
But... It Is Even Slower!
Seriously, that is just a bad idea. If the speed and response is bad enough they could get bad reviews and sour people on the entire idea of an Amazon tablet for years. That could potentially be disastrous for them. They really don't have a lot of room to get this wrong. Would be a shame too, as they have a good reputation from the kindle so far. I didn't like the build quality of our first one, but it was "good enough" and the second appears to be much improved so far.
Be a shame to ruin that.
Err...the processor is slower. How does that correlate to the experience of the tablet being slower?
Last I checked, the Playbook UI and the Kindle UI will be different.
It's true that it doesn't mean that 400k people have called it an iPad killer, but my link is proof that quite a few people have. Some people here are acting as if nobody has called this an iPad killer, and I have proven that that is not true.
Not when 300k are newsbot regurgitations of the same two blogs and the rest are regurgitations of the five actual articles that wrote that it's NOT an iPad killer, which also cause them to appear in the results. I'd hate to have to sit on a jury with you.
Err...the processor is slower. How does that correlate to the experience of the tablet being slower?
Last I checked, the Playbook UI and the Kindle UI will be different.
I am not sure the UI itself is the issue. We don't know (or at least i don't, maybe you are the god of android programers) how much of the performance is the actual UI and how much is the underlying system. I use the term UI because that is what people see and what they will be jarred by if it lags.
I am also pretty sure there is nothing to check with as yet as to what UI this thing will run, so i am not sure how you checked. Unless you helped make it.
Either way, unless the UI is the vast majority of the PlayBooks problems, and the chip in this new device is only slightly slower, and the Amazon UI is greatly improved, it doesn't look good. A slower processor generally means a slower device. We will see.
Yeah, but what are all the Fandroids saying! All they talk about is kill the iPad.
When you run into that, confront it. That's what I do. But don't invent it where it doesn't exist. That only gives fodder to the 'mindless Apple fanboy' accusers. (Which is ironic, since all the Android commercials portray their users as mindless, noisy machines... but such irony is lost on some people.)
I am not sure the UI itself is the issue. We don't know (or at least i don't, maybe you are the god of android programers) how much of the performance is the actual UI and how much is the underlying system. I use the term UI because that is what people see and what they will be jarred by if it lags.
I am also pretty sure there is nothing to check with as yet as to what UI this thing will run, so i am not sure how you checked. Unless you helped make it.
Either way, unless the UI is the vast majority of the PlayBooks problems, and the chip in this new device is only slightly slower, and the Amazon UI is greatly improved, it doesn't look good. A slower processor generally means a slower device. We will see.
Nope. I'm not.
All I'm saying is just because the processor is slower doesn't mean that the experience will be slower when comparing two products with similar hardware but different UI and OS's. Until such a time when we can compare the two products side by side, no one can predict what the experience would be like. Of course, if the processor is 'vastly' slower then we can make an educated guess but with the current info we have? Sorry, we just can't.
So, a slower and worse version of the Playbook, which flopped by the way, is supposed to be the next game changing iPad killer to come along?
C'mon. I asked why another 7" Android tablet from Amazon would succeed where all other 7" Android tablets have failed, and everyone who replied said it was Amazon's ecosystem. Apparently, Jeff Bezos could fart in a jar and sell millions of jars on Amazon because of their ecosystem.
Q: If specs are all that matter, why is a 2 and half year old phone still the 2nd most popular sold in the US each month (the 3GS), and a 15-month old phone the most popular (iPhone 4)?
A: They don't matter. It is all about the software and marketplace/ecosystem.
If Amazon markets it as a "color Kindle" and keeps the word "tablet" out of it, I think they could do alright.
That's the more reasonable comparison - but I'm not sure it's a winner.
People use the Kindle to read books. Does a color screen justify twice the price? Especially when all the Kindle fans have been bragging about how great e-Ink is and how inferior LCD screens are? So you pay twice as much and get an arguably (*) inferior screen simply in order to read your books in color? I'm not seeing it.
* Personally, my iPad is very readable and I don't see any significant advantage to eInk in most circumstances. However, the Kindle fans use the argument that LCD is inferior, so it's not unreasonable to use their argument when discussing Kindles. Plus, the LCD clearly isn't as good in bright sunlight.
Or, if you simply want an ereader, you can get one for $129.
I can see someone paying $250 for something that's less capable than the iPad. I can not, however, see someone paying twice as much as a Kindle in order to get the limited advantages that this unit has- and an arguably worse screen.
If it doesn't have an IPS screen it's going to have a harder time of it as an ereader than the Nook Color. I don't buy that it'll have an inferior screen.
C'mon. I asked why another 7" Android tablet from Amazon would succeed where all other 7" Android tablets have failed, and everyone who replied said it was Amazon's ecosystem. Apparently, Jeff Bezos could fart in a jar and sell millions of jars on Amazon because of their ecosystem.
Only if his farts came with a year of free Prime membership and movies. If it doesn't, then not so much. $300 for Prime vs $250 for no Prime seems a little meh to me.
This isn't an iPad killer. Unless it's totally lame it's a Nook Color killer. Its hard to imagine that they can screw that up but it's possible. Charging $300 is one way of doing so if B&N holds the line at $250 for Nook Color 2 and say drops to $200 for the original Nook Color.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Maybe. But then it won't really get used as a tablet. I mean, does anyone use the Kindle today for serious web browsing? I don't.
It isn't any more like today's Kindle than the Nook Color was like the Nook.
If the aspect ratio is the same as the Nook it's a little narrower (portrait) or short (landscape) than I prefer for surfing but it works well enough. Better experience than on an iPhone if the browser itself is semi-reasonable which it's reported to be.
@shen, jeez, there's only a gazillion reposts of Siegler's post. Here's the relevant section for you:
"Overall, the UI of this Kindle felt very responsive. You can flick through the carousel seamlessly. This is something Amazon has apparently been working on quite a bit, I’m told. And they continue to. Some of the page-turning touch mechanics still needed a bit of work in the version I used."
Given that they're heavily customizing Android they can give their carousel UI full 3d acceleration which is one of the weaker links in the Android UI implementation. That should make it as performant as on iOS which is snappy enough even on the original iPad with lower specs.
I'm happy that there's rumor of a Nook Color 2 as well but I do think the Kindle Fire/Amazon will have a distinct ecosystem advantage over NC2/Barnes and Noble.
This will be a pretty decent Christmas for Android tablets...except neither looks like Android or act like full tablets...still if you count them they should both sell pretty well.
I am left wondering what RIM has to say about this. Don't they have any IP interest in their own design? Unless unlike Apple, RIM writes "Designed in China, Made in China" on the back of their device. Is a fabricator like Quanta free to take the template of whatever they make for someone else and repurpose it for another client? Something is missing here.
Yeah, I know, the Playbook is not counted a big success, but still . . .
Hmmmm, I think that is how Samsung works. right? You make it, we copy all we want and its your fault for not making it even better.... for us to copy. China rule of manufacturing. LOL
Seriously I asked the same question. Even if RIM did not directly design it, if they laid out the specs and basic rules to design, then the smarter lawyers usually make the contract such that RIM would own the design.
Then again, we are talking about RIM...... LOL If Quanta owns the design, they are fully free to make a second model with mostly the same inside and sell it them selves.
The kind of person that would actually fall for buying into this Kindle crap would be my 61 year old mother, but thankfully she has me around to steer her right...
Have you considered reasons why a Kindle device might be a better choice for a person's 61 year old mom? If books were the overwhelming primary use then there really is a case to be made for a Kindle over a more complicated, heavier tablet device. I have an iPad and for reading pdf files it is clearly the better device, but for literary works a 'better' Kindle might be good choice. Weight, size, battery life, 'always' available and free connection to the bookstore are legitimate advantages to consider. One doesn't have to be an Apple hater to see Amazon as a potential real competitor.
Have you considered reasons why a Kindle device might be a better choice for a person's 61 year old mom? If books were the overwhelming primary use then there really is a case to be made for a Kindle over a more complicated, heavier tablet device. I have an iPad and for reading pdf files it is clearly the better device, but for literary works a 'better' Kindle might be good choice. Weight, size, battery life, 'always' available and free connection to the bookstore are legitimate advantages to consider. One doesn't have to be an Apple hater to see Amazon as a potential real competitor.
Battery life is a reasonable argument for the e-ink Kindle, but most likely *not* for the Kindle tablet as described here. The Playbook couldn't match the iPad's battery life and unless they've done more than simply use a slower processor there's no reason to believe Amazon's new tablet will challenge the iPad in that regard either.
That said, I think the device may have some appeal to people who like their Kindle but wish it would do a bit more. If the price is right it should sell on the merits of Amazon's ecosystem. It probably won't sell in iPad volumes, but since it seems to be a commodity design at this point, does it have to?
Comments
Once that expectation takes hold, buying a crippled little thing to save money will seem less appealing.
At that point, you might expect lots of folks will just go back to their laptops, eh?
I agree. A simplified Android device with a name people know and trust with a baked in reason to want it (lets get one honey, if you don't like all that app stuff at worst it is still a nice kindle) should be a no brainer. I think Amazon would be fools to not be working on it.
But... It Is Even Slower!
Seriously, that is just a bad idea. If the speed and response is bad enough they could get bad reviews and sour people on the entire idea of an Amazon tablet for years. That could potentially be disastrous for them. They really don't have a lot of room to get this wrong. Would be a shame too, as they have a good reputation from the kindle so far. I didn't like the build quality of our first one, but it was "good enough" and the second appears to be much improved so far.
Be a shame to ruin that.
Err...the processor is slower. How does that correlate to the experience of the tablet being slower?
Last I checked, the Playbook UI and the Kindle UI will be different.
It's true that it doesn't mean that 400k people have called it an iPad killer, but my link is proof that quite a few people have. Some people here are acting as if nobody has called this an iPad killer, and I have proven that that is not true.
Not when 300k are newsbot regurgitations of the same two blogs and the rest are regurgitations of the five actual articles that wrote that it's NOT an iPad killer, which also cause them to appear in the results. I'd hate to have to sit on a jury with you.
It's a TouchPad killer.
More of a violator of the recently deceased...
Err...the processor is slower. How does that correlate to the experience of the tablet being slower?
Last I checked, the Playbook UI and the Kindle UI will be different.
I am not sure the UI itself is the issue. We don't know (or at least i don't, maybe you are the god of android programers) how much of the performance is the actual UI and how much is the underlying system. I use the term UI because that is what people see and what they will be jarred by if it lags.
I am also pretty sure there is nothing to check with as yet as to what UI this thing will run, so i am not sure how you checked. Unless you helped make it.
Either way, unless the UI is the vast majority of the PlayBooks problems, and the chip in this new device is only slightly slower, and the Amazon UI is greatly improved, it doesn't look good. A slower processor generally means a slower device. We will see.
Your ignorance is showing. Apple has never used outside designers! Show me one instance where Apple has used an outside designer.
And BTW if a company does use an outside designer doesn't mean that the product can then be copied by the designer or anybody else.
http://ipod.about.com/od/understandi...ented-ipod.htm
Yeah, but what are all the Fandroids saying! All they talk about is kill the iPad.
When you run into that, confront it. That's what I do. But don't invent it where it doesn't exist. That only gives fodder to the 'mindless Apple fanboy' accusers. (Which is ironic, since all the Android commercials portray their users as mindless, noisy machines... but such irony is lost on some people.)
I am not sure the UI itself is the issue. We don't know (or at least i don't, maybe you are the god of android programers) how much of the performance is the actual UI and how much is the underlying system. I use the term UI because that is what people see and what they will be jarred by if it lags.
I am also pretty sure there is nothing to check with as yet as to what UI this thing will run, so i am not sure how you checked. Unless you helped make it.
Either way, unless the UI is the vast majority of the PlayBooks problems, and the chip in this new device is only slightly slower, and the Amazon UI is greatly improved, it doesn't look good. A slower processor generally means a slower device. We will see.
Nope. I'm not.
All I'm saying is just because the processor is slower doesn't mean that the experience will be slower when comparing two products with similar hardware but different UI and OS's. Until such a time when we can compare the two products side by side, no one can predict what the experience would be like. Of course, if the processor is 'vastly' slower then we can make an educated guess but with the current info we have? Sorry, we just can't.
So, a slower and worse version of the Playbook, which flopped by the way, is supposed to be the next game changing iPad killer to come along?
C'mon. I asked why another 7" Android tablet from Amazon would succeed where all other 7" Android tablets have failed, and everyone who replied said it was Amazon's ecosystem. Apparently, Jeff Bezos could fart in a jar and sell millions of jars on Amazon because of their ecosystem.
If Amazon markets it as a "color Kindle" and keeps the word "tablet" out of it, I think they could do alright.
Maybe. But then it won't really get used as a tablet. I mean, does anyone use the Kindle today for serious web browsing? I don't.
http://youtu.be/IFa4V10xS-o
...and the eyestrain people.
Amazing what a few 10 millions of iPad sales can do.
A: They don't matter. It is all about the software and marketplace/ecosystem.
If Amazon markets it as a "color Kindle" and keeps the word "tablet" out of it, I think they could do alright.
That's the more reasonable comparison - but I'm not sure it's a winner.
People use the Kindle to read books. Does a color screen justify twice the price? Especially when all the Kindle fans have been bragging about how great e-Ink is and how inferior LCD screens are? So you pay twice as much and get an arguably (*) inferior screen simply in order to read your books in color? I'm not seeing it.
* Personally, my iPad is very readable and I don't see any significant advantage to eInk in most circumstances. However, the Kindle fans use the argument that LCD is inferior, so it's not unreasonable to use their argument when discussing Kindles. Plus, the LCD clearly isn't as good in bright sunlight.
Or, if you simply want an ereader, you can get one for $129.
I can see someone paying $250 for something that's less capable than the iPad. I can not, however, see someone paying twice as much as a Kindle in order to get the limited advantages that this unit has- and an arguably worse screen.
If it doesn't have an IPS screen it's going to have a harder time of it as an ereader than the Nook Color. I don't buy that it'll have an inferior screen.
C'mon. I asked why another 7" Android tablet from Amazon would succeed where all other 7" Android tablets have failed, and everyone who replied said it was Amazon's ecosystem. Apparently, Jeff Bezos could fart in a jar and sell millions of jars on Amazon because of their ecosystem.
Only if his farts came with a year of free Prime membership and movies. If it doesn't, then not so much. $300 for Prime vs $250 for no Prime seems a little meh to me.
This isn't an iPad killer. Unless it's totally lame it's a Nook Color killer. Its hard to imagine that they can screw that up but it's possible. Charging $300 is one way of doing so if B&N holds the line at $250 for Nook Color 2 and say drops to $200 for the original Nook Color.
Maybe. But then it won't really get used as a tablet. I mean, does anyone use the Kindle today for serious web browsing? I don't.
It isn't any more like today's Kindle than the Nook Color was like the Nook.
If the aspect ratio is the same as the Nook it's a little narrower (portrait) or short (landscape) than I prefer for surfing but it works well enough. Better experience than on an iPhone if the browser itself is semi-reasonable which it's reported to be.
@shen, jeez, there's only a gazillion reposts of Siegler's post. Here's the relevant section for you:
"Overall, the UI of this Kindle felt very responsive. You can flick through the carousel seamlessly. This is something Amazon has apparently been working on quite a bit, I’m told. And they continue to. Some of the page-turning touch mechanics still needed a bit of work in the version I used."
Given that they're heavily customizing Android they can give their carousel UI full 3d acceleration which is one of the weaker links in the Android UI implementation. That should make it as performant as on iOS which is snappy enough even on the original iPad with lower specs.
I'm happy that there's rumor of a Nook Color 2 as well but I do think the Kindle Fire/Amazon will have a distinct ecosystem advantage over NC2/Barnes and Noble.
This will be a pretty decent Christmas for Android tablets...except neither looks like Android or act like full tablets...still if you count them they should both sell pretty well.
I am left wondering what RIM has to say about this. Don't they have any IP interest in their own design? Unless unlike Apple, RIM writes "Designed in China, Made in China" on the back of their device. Is a fabricator like Quanta free to take the template of whatever they make for someone else and repurpose it for another client? Something is missing here.
Yeah, I know, the Playbook is not counted a big success, but still . . .
Hmmmm, I think that is how Samsung works. right? You make it, we copy all we want and its your fault for not making it even better.... for us to copy. China rule of manufacturing. LOL
Seriously I asked the same question. Even if RIM did not directly design it, if they laid out the specs and basic rules to design, then the smarter lawyers usually make the contract such that RIM would own the design.
Then again, we are talking about RIM...... LOL If Quanta owns the design, they are fully free to make a second model with mostly the same inside and sell it them selves.
Just some food for thought.
en
The kind of person that would actually fall for buying into this Kindle crap would be my 61 year old mother, but thankfully she has me around to steer her right...
Have you considered reasons why a Kindle device might be a better choice for a person's 61 year old mom? If books were the overwhelming primary use then there really is a case to be made for a Kindle over a more complicated, heavier tablet device. I have an iPad and for reading pdf files it is clearly the better device, but for literary works a 'better' Kindle might be good choice. Weight, size, battery life, 'always' available and free connection to the bookstore are legitimate advantages to consider. One doesn't have to be an Apple hater to see Amazon as a potential real competitor.
Have you considered reasons why a Kindle device might be a better choice for a person's 61 year old mom? If books were the overwhelming primary use then there really is a case to be made for a Kindle over a more complicated, heavier tablet device. I have an iPad and for reading pdf files it is clearly the better device, but for literary works a 'better' Kindle might be good choice. Weight, size, battery life, 'always' available and free connection to the bookstore are legitimate advantages to consider. One doesn't have to be an Apple hater to see Amazon as a potential real competitor.
Battery life is a reasonable argument for the e-ink Kindle, but most likely *not* for the Kindle tablet as described here. The Playbook couldn't match the iPad's battery life and unless they've done more than simply use a slower processor there's no reason to believe Amazon's new tablet will challenge the iPad in that regard either.
That said, I think the device may have some appeal to people who like their Kindle but wish it would do a bit more. If the price is right it should sell on the merits of Amazon's ecosystem. It probably won't sell in iPad volumes, but since it seems to be a commodity design at this point, does it have to?