He may not know what to call it. But the difference absolutely is there.
I'm not denying that the A5 is faster. I'm an electrical engineer so I can definitely appreciate the technical differences. However, the business part of me still has to ask about the change in experience for the typical user. In terms of the tasks that most people will do on their phone, will they really notice a difference?
Sure, games (for instance) may run better, but is that enough? Honestly, I use my iPhone for running Safari, Email, Music, Phone, and maybe a few simple games. At a certain point, the additional power does not become useful.
Well, I think a lot of people imagined it. How long did it take for your apps to load on your 3G? People knew it need a speed boost.
Now how long does it take apps to load on your iPhone 4? I know apps on mine load very quickly. So even if the 4s is instantaneous loading, is the user experience really that much improved?
The best example we have of this is the iPad to iPad 2. After all, that is an A4 to A5 comparison. My dad had an iPad 1 and then bought an iPad 2. I asked him if he noticed any differences between them. He said he loved how the 2 was a lot thinner. When I asked about speed, he said, "Speed?". (And the iPad 2 had more RAM as well.)
Well, we'll see. Good points (1st pgrph). But seriously, your dad? Is he multitasking photo-editing and video-editing software? People I know who use iPad2 professionally say the difference between it and iPad1 was like the difference between a tool and a toy. I'm really only guessing how a dramatic increase in iP4S processor capacity will affect the user experience, but it sounds impressive enough to assume that it will allow the device to do things we haven't even thought of doing with a smartphone before - just like we had never thought of half the things the phones we have now can do.
Apple is 'unable to compete in the phone business' and 'in last place' , while having the best selling phone, by a massive margin, in the industry? Are you insane, or just fucking stupid? Sure, I'm also disappointed we didn't get a new form factor and larger screen, but there's no point spouting factually untrue and sensationalistic statements with no basis in reality, as you just did. iOS5, iCloud, and Siri look amazing, and as far as I can tell more polished and better implemented than anything else in the industry. Whether you like it or no, Apple is still in the lead- by a wide margin.
I been using Mobile Me for two years, a sheer disaster by any standard, iCloud is way suspect...
I trusted the spin & have spent endless hours to keep it barely working... I live in the real world...
I bought iPhone 4, Apple replaced it because it didn't work, serious antenna issues...
I bought IPAD, Apple replaced it twice trying to find one where the wifi worked...
It's wifi still barely works now, my cheap $300 netbook wifi runs circles around it and the iPhone...
I bought a MacBook, Apple replaced keyboard, case, dvd drive, hard drive...
I bought a iMac & MacBook Air... They've been great...
I am heavily invested in Apple products, but is clear as avid user Apple is falling way behind in the phone world... So all Apple did today is fix the marginal stuff iPhone 4... Look at Apple own spec comparison chart on the web... It is barely a speed bump... The distortion field does not work anymore...
I predict that Siri beta will be shipped on iPhone 4S. When it goes official 1.0 it will be either a free upgrade or a purchase option from the App store on iPhone 4 and iPad 2.
I'm surprised at the reactions too. Why don't people realize that generally most Americans are locked into two year contracts. Why would Apple try and sell you a new phone every year if that is the case? DUH
why? because Apple is a worldwide company that sells huge numbers abroad. In not many countries you'll find this ludicrous situation where people are forced into buying a phone into a two years contract (without ever be able to unlock it) in order to own an iPhone or any phone. There is a big world out there, you know
Apple actually did all of you iPhone 4 owners a favor. You don't need to upgrade to still look like you have the newest phone.
I'm certainly not rushing out to buy the 4s. I'll probably keep my iPhone 4 until next year when I will be out of contact, so none of this really affects me.
It just goes to show that Apple doesn't need iPhone 4 users to upgrade in order to sell millions of new phones to first time buyers.
Honestly the reason people are getting so worked up about this is because apple has become so big. They are in the spotlight more so than when they announced the 3GS. As I was reading the updates I was originally very disappointed with the upgrades for the new iPhone. Partly because of the rumors and I was really looking forward to something completely new. As a teenager I was quick to judge the 4S and throw it out the window as I feel most of the people complaining are. But when you actually look at it, this is a great upgrade and worthy of apples standards. However I feel my generation will still be unhappy simply because it looks the same which is a real shame.
why? because Apple is a worldwide company that sells huge numbers abroad. In not many countries you'll find this ludicrous situation where people are forced into buying a phone into a two years contract (without ever be able to unlock it) in order to own an iPhone or any phone. There is a big world out there, you know
Yup and America is still Apple's largest and if you are buying out of contract how tempted are you to spend nearly $1,000/ year on a new phone even if you aren't tied to a contract? If you're ok with that you do what I do and have two iPhone plans and upgrade one phone every other year. I'm pretty sure I am as well as those who would buy a new phone out of contract EVERY year are few and far between.
Yes, it was not over the moon exciting but the iPhone 4s will be a great upgrade for 3gs users. ip4 users can wait until ip5. The ip4 is still a very current and in my view, beautiful device and can hold its own for a while longer. So we missed the excitement but nothing bad happened.
The bigger news over the next few weeks is iOS and iCloud anyway.
I am very happy that an iPhone 5 looking anything like those alleged previews (cases revealing an aluminum back with bevelled edge) was not launched. That would have been an aesthetic travesty in my view. When the iPhone 5 launches I suspect we will see a much lighter, leaner phone with curved glass similar to the Nokia Swipe.
Let me start by saying that I took the news harshly, I was really hoping for a smaller phone, I personally find the iPhone 4 to be bigger than it's screen than it needs to be. I thought s year and a half could have solved that.
It is a better device now, just, not enough to make me want to upgrade, BUT I promised my gf that I'd give her my iPhone when I got the new one. I guess I'm just less excited now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
1) Yeah, a processor, GPU and its interconnects that can do more in less time is a good thing for many reasons. If you don't understand that then it would be pointless for me to explain.
I do get this, being highly educated in CS. I just don't buy it in the case of phones. I am of the opinion that machines are starting to actually be overpowered, which I think will change eventually. I do understand that NOT putting in the A5 would have been very bad, so I cede this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
2) You honestly don't how faster internet speeds could help with anything other than torrenting? Perhaps battery usage efficiency being able to use the cellular chips less often. Or perhaps being able to render webpages and data in apps faster, like streaming of video. You really think waiting is a good thing here?
Fair enough, but let's think about real world use. I have an iPhone 4 and I don't wait for much of anything, this faster phone speed probably just uses more power. Seems like a non feature to me, for most carriers especially, I mean, I am in Canada and I doubt well get any hsdpa+ or whatever anytime soon. But yeah all in all I haven't found the current speeds lacking, but then upgrading the chips to something less than 4G, ouch.
And then theres coverae issues which I'd bet affect speeds way more than these theoretical maxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
3) It wasn't a problem, but neither was it a problem with any other iPhone before it. Apple makes their stuff better. Why does this seem so alien to you?
I wasn't saying it was a bad thing, in fact, for those that bought the antenagate hype, it's great. It just doesn't matter to me, or anyone with an i4 that hasn't had reception problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
4) It's improved in several good ways according to event data. I'm not one to use a camera but I can certainly see why better quality photos, that are better stability and especially in low light settings are a good thing of those that use it.
oh yeah, no doubt. Just not upgrade bait really... Honestly this is like the best new feature as far as I am concerned.
5) It has been seen. What part of the Siri/Nuance Assistant do you think won't be as good as the voice recognition in iOS 4.x?[/QUOTE]
Voice recognition in iOS 4 has failed me consistently and I really do my best to be loud and articulate. So I'm not getting my hopes up, looks quite cool though, I just wonder how useful it will be. But hey, if it gets us closer to getting away from keyboards, all the better. I'd love to see this on a new iPod shuffle! I also hope they update that voice, it's pretty weak IMHO
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
6) Again, why pooh-pooh improved software because Apple is offering it to other devices. I'm sure you'd complain if Apple oddly didn't give the iPhone 4S new SW features so why complain when they do. You should at least leave it as a null value.
Oh I'd complain alright,
I was only shooting this down as being a reason to buy the new phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
7) For the most part you are right; this won't affect many users right away. This also could be the reason for this extra long delay since getting a world mode chip in a smartphone with this many bands has never before been done, especially in such a small smartphone. However, this does open the door for the US finally being to get legislation to get carriers to unlock devices after your contract is fulfilled. Why is that a bad thing?
Not bad, unless the lower battery life is the result... I find it strange that wifi time is lower but 3G times are higher..
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
8) Prove to me they could have put these 64GB chips in the number of iPhones sold in the last 16 months. What were the yields of these chips then compared to the assumed upper-tier iPhone 4 sales? What were its cost per unit? How much power did they use? How fast were the chips? How was the reliability of these chips? Last I had read a year ago was they weren't as fast and had a significantly lower number of read/write sessions that made them unlikely to find their way into the iPhone until 2011. Reading about a new tech on Engadget doesn't mean it's ready for mass production in the most popular devices on the planet.
Sure, iPod touch has had 64gb for 16 months. That's proof no?
Had the same TV, same stereo system, but got the newest AppleTV and new TiVo HD. Made the experience considerably better because core devices made accessing my media better, faster and more enjoyable. Buying a new TV just because the black plastic border is a little difference would not have made a difference.[/QUOTE]
O so maybe tvs are replaced as often but my point remains, the device Form factor has remained identical for more than ayear, in the technology industry that's like 80 lifetimes. HP lauched and killed a product in the meantime!
I been using Mobile Me for two years, a sheer disaster by any standard, iCloud is way suspect...
I trusted the spin & have spent endless hours to keep it barely working... I live in the real world...
I bought iPhone 4, Apple replaced it because it didn't work, serious antenna issues...
I bought IPAD, Apple replaced it twice trying to find one where the wifi worked...
It's wifi still barely works now, my cheap $300 netbook wifi runs circles around it and the iPhone...
I bought a MacBook, Apple replaced keyboard, case, dvd drive, hard drive...
I bought a iMac & MacBook Air... They've been great...
I am heavily invested in Apple products, but is clear as avid user Apple is falling way behind in the phone world... So all Apple did today is fix the marginal stuff iPhone 4... Look at Apple own spec comparison chart on the web... It is barely a speed bump... The distortion field does not work anymore...
wow.. Dude way bad luck!
I have:
2 - PowerMac G3s,
1 - Sawtooth G4
1 - Gigabit G4
1 - eMac G4
1 - iMac G3
1 - 21" iMac Intel Core 2
1 - iBook G3
1 - Macbook Intel 13"
1 - Macbook Pro 13"
3 - iPhone 4
1 - iPad 1
1 - 3rd Gen iPod touch
1 - iPod Nano (forgot which gen, 2 back I think)
----
~ 16 apple devices. I have only had problems with one of them and it was the iBook G3 video problem. Which Apple resolved for free after it was out of warranty.
If you think Apple is counting on people upgrading their phones every year, you are sadly mistaken. Especially in this economy. Give it a rest.
I would, and lot more users would do too, maybe you won't but that doesn't mean you should restrict people to upgrade every two years just because you are on a contract or are unable to.
Comments
Does anyone know if Siri will work on an iPhone 4?
It'll work until October 15th. Then it apparently shuts off. (Launch Siri. It'll tell you this).
He may not know what to call it. But the difference absolutely is there.
I'm not denying that the A5 is faster. I'm an electrical engineer so I can definitely appreciate the technical differences. However, the business part of me still has to ask about the change in experience for the typical user. In terms of the tasks that most people will do on their phone, will they really notice a difference?
Sure, games (for instance) may run better, but is that enough? Honestly, I use my iPhone for running Safari, Email, Music, Phone, and maybe a few simple games. At a certain point, the additional power does not become useful.
Well, I think a lot of people imagined it. How long did it take for your apps to load on your 3G? People knew it need a speed boost.
Now how long does it take apps to load on your iPhone 4? I know apps on mine load very quickly. So even if the 4s is instantaneous loading, is the user experience really that much improved?
The best example we have of this is the iPad to iPad 2. After all, that is an A4 to A5 comparison. My dad had an iPad 1 and then bought an iPad 2. I asked him if he noticed any differences between them. He said he loved how the 2 was a lot thinner. When I asked about speed, he said, "Speed?". (And the iPad 2 had more RAM as well.)
Well, we'll see. Good points (1st pgrph). But seriously, your dad? Is he multitasking photo-editing and video-editing software? People I know who use iPad2 professionally say the difference between it and iPad1 was like the difference between a tool and a toy. I'm really only guessing how a dramatic increase in iP4S processor capacity will affect the user experience, but it sounds impressive enough to assume that it will allow the device to do things we haven't even thought of doing with a smartphone before - just like we had never thought of half the things the phones we have now can do.
Apple is 'unable to compete in the phone business' and 'in last place' , while having the best selling phone, by a massive margin, in the industry? Are you insane, or just fucking stupid? Sure, I'm also disappointed we didn't get a new form factor and larger screen, but there's no point spouting factually untrue and sensationalistic statements with no basis in reality, as you just did. iOS5, iCloud, and Siri look amazing, and as far as I can tell more polished and better implemented than anything else in the industry. Whether you like it or no, Apple is still in the lead- by a wide margin.
I been using Mobile Me for two years, a sheer disaster by any standard, iCloud is way suspect...
I trusted the spin & have spent endless hours to keep it barely working... I live in the real world...
I bought iPhone 4, Apple replaced it because it didn't work, serious antenna issues...
I bought IPAD, Apple replaced it twice trying to find one where the wifi worked...
It's wifi still barely works now, my cheap $300 netbook wifi runs circles around it and the iPhone...
I bought a MacBook, Apple replaced keyboard, case, dvd drive, hard drive...
I bought a iMac & MacBook Air... They've been great...
I am heavily invested in Apple products, but is clear as avid user Apple is falling way behind in the phone world... So all Apple did today is fix the marginal stuff iPhone 4... Look at Apple own spec comparison chart on the web... It is barely a speed bump... The distortion field does not work anymore...
Latest rumour:
iPhone 5 coming in October 2012
4.5 inch screen
Thinner body
Teardrop shape
Aluminum unibody
A6 processor
iOS6
Siri II (really works now)
I predict that Siri beta will be shipped on iPhone 4S. When it goes official 1.0 it will be either a free upgrade or a purchase option from the App store on iPhone 4 and iPad 2.
I'm surprised at the reactions too. Why don't people realize that generally most Americans are locked into two year contracts. Why would Apple try and sell you a new phone every year if that is the case? DUH
why?
You can pick up reading glasses at Walmart for $10.
Apple isn't responsible for your vision problems.
A lot of people don't use the iOS accessibility functions but it does allow you to enlarge text for certain apps on the phone.
iPhone 5 coming in October 2012
Except this is the iPhone 5.
Siri II (really works now)
Claiming something doesn't work when you've not only not used it yourself but also haven't even SEEN IT makes you look like a complete imbecile.
I'm certainly not rushing out to buy the 4s. I'll probably keep my iPhone 4 until next year when I will be out of contact, so none of this really affects me.
It just goes to show that Apple doesn't need iPhone 4 users to upgrade in order to sell millions of new phones to first time buyers.
Honestly the reason people are getting so worked up about this is because apple has become so big. They are in the spotlight more so than when they announced the 3GS. As I was reading the updates I was originally very disappointed with the upgrades for the new iPhone. Partly because of the rumors and I was really looking forward to something completely new. As a teenager I was quick to judge the 4S and throw it out the window as I feel most of the people complaining are. But when you actually look at it, this is a great upgrade and worthy of apples standards. However I feel my generation will still be unhappy simply because it looks the same which is a real shame.
Welcome & great 1st post!
why?
Yup and America is still Apple's largest and if you are buying out of contract how tempted are you to spend nearly $1,000/ year on a new phone even if you aren't tied to a contract? If you're ok with that you do what I do and have two iPhone plans and upgrade one phone every other year. I'm pretty sure I am as well as those who would buy a new phone out of contract EVERY year are few and far between.
That is why this presentation is sad
Yes, it was not over the moon exciting but the iPhone 4s will be a great upgrade for 3gs users. ip4 users can wait until ip5. The ip4 is still a very current and in my view, beautiful device and can hold its own for a while longer. So we missed the excitement but nothing bad happened.
The bigger news over the next few weeks is iOS and iCloud anyway.
I am very happy that an iPhone 5 looking anything like those alleged previews (cases revealing an aluminum back with bevelled edge) was not launched. That would have been an aesthetic travesty in my view. When the iPhone 5 launches I suspect we will see a much lighter, leaner phone with curved glass similar to the Nokia Swipe.
It is a better device now, just, not enough to make me want to upgrade, BUT I promised my gf that I'd give her my iPhone when I got the new one. I guess I'm just less excited now.
1) Yeah, a processor, GPU and its interconnects that can do more in less time is a good thing for many reasons. If you don't understand that then it would be pointless for me to explain.
I do get this, being highly educated in CS. I just don't buy it in the case of phones. I am of the opinion that machines are starting to actually be overpowered, which I think will change eventually. I do understand that NOT putting in the A5 would have been very bad, so I cede this point.
2) You honestly don't how faster internet speeds could help with anything other than torrenting? Perhaps battery usage efficiency being able to use the cellular chips less often. Or perhaps being able to render webpages and data in apps faster, like streaming of video. You really think waiting is a good thing here?
Fair enough, but let's think about real world use. I have an iPhone 4 and I don't wait for much of anything, this faster phone speed probably just uses more power. Seems like a non feature to me, for most carriers especially, I mean, I am in Canada and I doubt well get any hsdpa+ or whatever anytime soon. But yeah all in all I haven't found the current speeds lacking, but then upgrading the chips to something less than 4G, ouch.
And then theres coverae issues which I'd bet affect speeds way more than these theoretical maxes.
3) It wasn't a problem, but neither was it a problem with any other iPhone before it. Apple makes their stuff better. Why does this seem so alien to you?
I wasn't saying it was a bad thing, in fact, for those that bought the antenagate hype, it's great. It just doesn't matter to me, or anyone with an i4 that hasn't had reception problems.
4) It's improved in several good ways according to event data. I'm not one to use a camera but I can certainly see why better quality photos, that are better stability and especially in low light settings are a good thing of those that use it.
oh yeah, no doubt. Just not upgrade bait really... Honestly this is like the best new feature as far as I am concerned.
5) It has been seen. What part of the Siri/Nuance Assistant do you think won't be as good as the voice recognition in iOS 4.x?[/QUOTE]
Voice recognition in iOS 4 has failed me consistently and I really do my best to be loud and articulate. So I'm not getting my hopes up, looks quite cool though, I just wonder how useful it will be. But hey, if it gets us closer to getting away from keyboards, all the better. I'd love to see this on a new iPod shuffle! I also hope they update that voice, it's pretty weak IMHO
6) Again, why pooh-pooh improved software because Apple is offering it to other devices. I'm sure you'd complain if Apple oddly didn't give the iPhone 4S new SW features so why complain when they do. You should at least leave it as a null value.
Oh I'd complain alright,
I was only shooting this down as being a reason to buy the new phone.
7) For the most part you are right; this won't affect many users right away. This also could be the reason for this extra long delay since getting a world mode chip in a smartphone with this many bands has never before been done, especially in such a small smartphone. However, this does open the door for the US finally being to get legislation to get carriers to unlock devices after your contract is fulfilled. Why is that a bad thing?
Not bad, unless the lower battery life is the result... I find it strange that wifi time is lower but 3G times are higher..
8) Prove to me they could have put these 64GB chips in the number of iPhones sold in the last 16 months. What were the yields of these chips then compared to the assumed upper-tier iPhone 4 sales? What were its cost per unit? How much power did they use? How fast were the chips? How was the reliability of these chips? Last I had read a year ago was they weren't as fast and had a significantly lower number of read/write sessions that made them unlikely to find their way into the iPhone until 2011. Reading about a new tech on Engadget doesn't mean it's ready for mass production in the most popular devices on the planet.
Sure, iPod touch has had 64gb for 16 months. That's proof no?
Had the same TV, same stereo system, but got the newest AppleTV and new TiVo HD. Made the experience considerably better because core devices made accessing my media better, faster and more enjoyable. Buying a new TV just because the black plastic border is a little difference would not have made a difference.[/QUOTE]
O so maybe tvs are replaced as often but my point remains, the device Form factor has remained identical for more than ayear, in the technology industry that's like 80 lifetimes. HP lauched and killed a product in the meantime!
I been using Mobile Me for two years, a sheer disaster by any standard, iCloud is way suspect...
I trusted the spin & have spent endless hours to keep it barely working... I live in the real world...
I bought iPhone 4, Apple replaced it because it didn't work, serious antenna issues...
I bought IPAD, Apple replaced it twice trying to find one where the wifi worked...
It's wifi still barely works now, my cheap $300 netbook wifi runs circles around it and the iPhone...
I bought a MacBook, Apple replaced keyboard, case, dvd drive, hard drive...
I bought a iMac & MacBook Air... They've been great...
I am heavily invested in Apple products, but is clear as avid user Apple is falling way behind in the phone world... So all Apple did today is fix the marginal stuff iPhone 4... Look at Apple own spec comparison chart on the web... It is barely a speed bump... The distortion field does not work anymore...
wow.. Dude way bad luck!
I have:
2 - PowerMac G3s,
1 - Sawtooth G4
1 - Gigabit G4
1 - eMac G4
1 - iMac G3
1 - 21" iMac Intel Core 2
1 - iBook G3
1 - Macbook Intel 13"
1 - Macbook Pro 13"
3 - iPhone 4
1 - iPad 1
1 - 3rd Gen iPod touch
1 - iPod Nano (forgot which gen, 2 back I think)
----
~ 16 apple devices. I have only had problems with one of them and it was the iBook G3 video problem. Which Apple resolved for free after it was out of warranty.
If you think Apple is counting on people upgrading their phones every year, you are sadly mistaken. Especially in this economy. Give it a rest.
I would, and lot more users would do too, maybe you won't but that doesn't mean you should restrict people to upgrade every two years just because you are on a contract or are unable to.
..... and they expect us iPhone 4 users upgrade to this at the tune of 700 buck?
No.. I visited my account on AT&T and it looks like I'm already eligible for an upgrade at 199$ for the 16GB.
I bought in August, few weeks after the initial launch because I was waiting on resolution to antenna-gate.
I guess if you bought later, like on the Verizon launch or the white iPhone launch, you wouldn't be eligible.
..... and they expect us iPhone 4 users upgrade to this at the tune of 700 buck?
No, they expect Sprint users and 3GS users to.