The poster said the he/she wanted a new form factor so that people would know it is a new iPhone: When I buy something new, I don't want to be asked if it is the old model.
Sure, I totally understand wanting to have a new form factor to represent newness much like fashion. No problem with that. But the poster wanted other people to know that it is the new device, not himself or herself.
That's a huge mistake in human nature. People do like stuff to look new, partially for show off reason.
True, reading glasses are cheap and easy to come by, but it's also true that just about everyone over 45 years old needs them, and is annoyed at having to put them on just to use their smartphone to send a text message. Plus peasant-hands fingers have made the fairly narrow iPhone screen not much fun.
Of course, w/Siri built into the 4S, you don't NEED to put on your glasses to type a text, you hit the mic button (easily visible w/o reading glasses) and talk it in if you want. Also solves the finger problem.
I'm on Sprint and I've been using an LG Lotus for over 2 1/2 years. My wife and I are both getting the 4S ASAP.
And it's my choice to make fun of you for your inane rants.
Virtually every part of the iPhone 4S is significantly improved. If you want to call that a 'damp squib', that's your choice, but don't complain when people with brains and without vested interests laugh at you.
equally don't get your knickers in a twist if people call you nuts here, I wouldn't do that, clown is more fitting definition. You swallow everything the marketing machine of Apple says, try to use your own judgement it can be a liberating experience. I explained you that is not a solid upgrade and gave the example of 3GS. I won't comment on your association with people with brains otherwise I'll laugh uncontrollably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I already did - at least twice. I guess reading comprehension isn't one of your strengths.
I have no plans to change cell phone providers, so extending my contract for 2 more years doesn't cost me anything. When I do that, I can get a 4S for $199. I can sell my iPhone 4 on eBay for around $300. So, not only does it cost me nothing, but I'll actually pocket close to $100.
you know the old saying, when you are in hole stop digging. You seriously believe you get an upgrade for free? your carrier subsidy your phone at the tune of $450 (you pay $199 towards the cheapest 4S) for nothing? you well pay for it in increased tariff charges, locked in a two year contract and unable to insert another sim card. Try to go abroad and see the roaming charges. The total cost of ownership over a period of two years is lower is you buy it unlocked, plus you are free to change carrier at any time and sell it to anyone on any different carrier. Not to mention the ability to insert local foreign sim card when you travel for business or pleasure.
If you fail to understand this very basic notion, no wonder they take you for a ride every time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Sorry, I wouldn't use a Galaxy if you gave it to me. I prefer quality products.
Your 'logic' is ridiculous. By your standards, NO phone is ever an upgrade because there will always be something better sometime in the future. That's absurd.
no comment here, but just a chuckle at the delicious contradiction, keep it up buddy you making us laugh
He is chairman of the board not the CEO which means that he will not be involved in the day to day operation and also the design of iPhone already.
The way I see it, the ppl involved starts to get lazy without Steve presence that demand for perfection.
The reason I ask Apple to wake up is because I love the company so much that I does wish it to end up like Nokia.
Nokia have come to the stage where they are now because of their arrogant attitude that they think they are so big that no other company can beat them.
If this simple thing also you cannot understand my friend, you also NEED TO WAKE UP.
Are you fucking kidding me? You are. Right?
Besides the fact that you haven't shown me anything that tells me you know how a corporation works (actually you've shown me the complete opposite), I also see nothing at all that tells me that anyone is getting lazy at Apple.
Comparing Apple to Nokia is the icing on the cake.
BTW - Tim is a perfectionist... if you knew anything about Apple since Tim's been around you'd know that.
yes he still is, but now we have CEO with a charisma of NYC janitor and stern look of high school teacher. Mr Cook had the opportunity to show the world he's up the job but he bombed badly. Anodyne presentation, no new iPhone, luckily Scott and Eddy saved the event, they are more natural presenters. Mr Cook has disappointed big time, if he doesn't come up with something compelling next year (see iPhone 5 and iPad 3) and presented with flair, he'll be deservedly out of the job by 2014
Deservedly?!
Fuck you guys are sad.
If you want to call Steve Jobs an idiot, go ahead. You're welcome to it. Of course you'll look like a moron but...
There are more intelligent and effective ways to disagree with someone than being a crude ass when responding to them. That said, this forum (and every other technology message board on the internet) has plenty of people who either a) don't understand the subjects they're talking about, or b) are in that young stage of life where they think they know everything. When you resort to vulgar insult-riddled responses, you're numbering yourself among them.
There are more intelligent and effective ways to disagree with someone than being a crude ass when responding to them. That said, this forum (and every other technology message board on the internet) has plenty of people who either a) don't understand the subjects they're talking about, or b) are in that young stage of life where they think they know everything. When you resort to vulgar insult-riddled responses, you're numbering yourself among them.
Vulgar... yes. Insult ridden... huh? I didn't insult anyone. The word moron is in the dictionary. Look it up. I said that "if" he said something then he'd look like a moron.
You have your style... I have mine. Please, put me on ignore if you wish,
Vulgar... yes. Insult ridden... huh? I didn't insult anyone. The word moron is in the dictionary. Look it up. I said that "if" he said something then he'd look like a moron.
You have your style... I have mine. Please, put me on ignore if you wish,
If that's a 'style' you are proud of, that's on you. But I'm sure I'm not the only person here who doesn't want to read posts from members who resort to vulgar language and anger when they encounter opinions they disagree with, regardless of their position in an argument.
If that's a 'style' you are proud of, that's on you. But I'm sure I'm not the only person here who doesn't want to read posts from members who resort to vulgar language and anger when they encounter opinions they disagree with, regardless of their position in an argument.
I'm glad you are so very proud of yourself but don't go judging me or anyone else.
Oh and by the way... I caught you calling me temperamental and immature, you edit faster than I could reply... pot, kettle etc.
By the way 2... anger?? Your perspective... I would place bets that I'm calmer than you.
Then don't drag the forum down into the gutter in the name of defending it.
Dragging the forum down... shit pal, for god's sake get a life. The only way this forum gets dragged down is by allowing Apple haters to continually post crap. This doesn't include people who have good points as to where they feel Apple is failing but to continually snipe and respond with bullshit quips is ridiculous.
I've asked the mods to go after a couple of people where it's more than obvious but to no avail. Maybe that's what you should be bitching about.
eyou know the old saying, when you are in hole stop digging. You seriously believe you get an upgrade for free? your carrier subsidy your phone at the tune of $450 (you pay $199 towards the cheapest 4S) for nothing? you well pay for it in increased tariff charges, locked in a two year contract and unable to insert another sim card. Try to go abroad and see the roaming charges. The total cost of ownership over a period of two years is lower is you buy it unlocked, plus you are free to change carrier at any time and sell it to anyone on any different carrier. Not to mention the ability to insert local foreign sim card when you travel for business or pleasure.
If you fail to understand this very basic notion, no wonder they take you for a ride every time.
If you're trying to prove that you can't follow a simple logical argument, then you've managed to do so.
As I said (several times), I have no intention of switching cell phone carriers. I don't know where you are, but in the U.S., my monthly fee is going to stay the same whether I upgrade my phone or not. So I'll be paying $100 per month if I keep my iPhone 4 or $100 a month if I upgrade. Upgrading therefore doesn't cost me a penny more in carrier fees.
As for the upfront cost, I can sell my used iPhone 4 for more than I'll pay for a 4S with contract. So it doesn't cost me anything to upgrade.
I don't know how to explain it any simpler. If you can't follow such a simple argument, maybe you should repeat second grade.
Now, if you want to argue that carriers should be forced to lower your rate after your contract expires, I'd agree - and that would change the equation. But as it is, your position makes no sense.
Oh, and btw, buying unlocked phones is even silier. Since I'm staying with AT&T, buying an unlocked phone doesn't reduce my monthly fee one bit. So instead of paying $199 plus the monthly fee, I'll pay $700 (or whatever it is) plus the SAME MONTHLY FEE. How does that make sense?
I think it's strange (perhaps even disappointing) for many of us to watch an iPhone/iPad release event and not come away thinking "gotta have it". Hell, I broke out my wallet for a $199 paperweight after the Amazon event last week (and I've already got a 64GB iPad2). I figured at the very least, I'd be spending today trying to scheme some way again to upgrade mid-contract on the cheap. Nah. My iP4 works fine and is plenty fast for today's apps, and I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade mid-contract.
So if the iP4S isn't a compelling upgrade for a iP4 owner, is it compelling enough for a new user to pay $199 vs $99 for the iP4? If it's all about the superior iOS experience, wouldn't most new users be satisfied with the iP4 (and be easier for salepeople to push the $99 iP4)? At least until a slew of dual-core or uber-graphical apps are released (i.e. next year)?
The hardware upgrade is obviously compelling versus the 3GS, but is it compelling enough knowing that you'd be mid-contract if a 4G/LTE iPhone rolls out next year (I already have LTE coverage, so maybe I'm biased).
The iP4S seems to me to be a "placeholder", so Apple can sell the iP4's cheaply while still having another premium, flagship product holding that higher price point open. I'd agree that the iP4S is relatively better than the iP4, but if you ignore specs on paper and nomenclature, there is far more user experience improvement from iOS5 than from the iP4S. So I'm just not sure that this is the type of flagship I'd expect from Apple.
This new wave of trolling has even raised solipsism's ire, and that's the only way they can defeat us; dragging us to their level.
They won't go away if we ignore them, but they won't shut up if we don't.
If disagreeing with something Apple does is trolling... ok. I would counter that point by saying that defending anything Apple does is also trolling. (or reverse trolling?)
I love Apple- I've had Macs, iPads, iPods, and iPhones for the last 7 years depending on what came out when. But I am just pointing out that everything came out late- and it has since Lion.
Lion came late because they were working on iOS4. Now the excuse (from the defenders) is that iPhone 4S came late because of iCloud/iOS 5/Lion. And that's a valid excuse- and I believe that's what it is. But I do not like this trend (because it happened with Lion and now iOS5) that I'm seeing with Apple.
Proof:
I won't use Leopard/iphone 1 as an example (because it was the first iPhone model)- but Snow Leopard, iOS 3, and the iPhone 3GS all came out within 2 months of each other. 3GS wasn't delayed, nor was Snow Leopard- and the 3GS came out right on time and there was- this is important- no criticism.
Now, we throw iCloud into the mix. Ok- but when we are talking about APPLE- not Microsoft, Google, Amazon- Apple- they need to deliver because that's what they have done in the past. They have always delivered.
Say what you want- call me a troll, whatever. The fact remains that this is the first heavily scrutinized iPhone. Comedians are making fun of it on late night shows, etc. I'm going to buy it- but for everyone to dismiss everything anyone says and calls them "stupid" "trolls" "idiots" shines the light on all of you. You guys are the a-holes who think you know everything. And just because someone doesn't agree with you- they are wrong. Guess what- both can be right.
Typical "tough guys" behind a keyboard that wouldn't ever say that stuff or be such huge arrogant jerks to people in real life. Or maybe you are. Who cares?
You are completely delusional. Do you know exactly how large a resolution jump 4k is over current phone resolutions? The iPhone 4s is 960*640. Here is what the increases would be for a 4k screen as 4k resolution is 4096*3112:
4.2667x H
4.8625x V
You are not getting a greater than 4x increase in both directions by next year on a phone. Simply not happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTomcat
A flagship phone in 2011 without LTE or WiMAX capacity is BS!!!
2 years of contract to get 3G until end of 2013 is not worthy.
I live in south Florida and just got a Sprint and the WiMAX signal is perfect...
I live in Louisville KY. Over a million person metro area. We aren't on Sprint, AT&T OR Verizon's roadmaps for LTE or WiMax. Now Sprint has a big strategy meeting Friday and for all we know they're shitcanning WiMax and going to LTE, but right now, I have no idea when any of these companies will be giving me faster data, so buying the 4S and having a way better phone than my LG Lotus while I wait for high speed data to be more widespread isn't a bad thing for me. If you are one of the few to actually live in an area that has higher speeds available, then yes, you do likely value it more and that's fine.
Comments
The poster said the he/she wanted a new form factor so that people would know it is a new iPhone: When I buy something new, I don't want to be asked if it is the old model.
Sure, I totally understand wanting to have a new form factor to represent newness much like fashion. No problem with that. But the poster wanted other people to know that it is the new device, not himself or herself.
That's a huge mistake in human nature. People do like stuff to look new, partially for show off reason.
The market has reacted badly. Analysts generally unimpressed. Polls of normal technology sites unimpressed. My twitter feed unimpressed.
Not just there. Not just fanboys. ( Although that is an ad homimen I accept, it bests being called a paid shrill of Google).
Just like the iPad... and see how bad it's turning out to be.
Just like the iPad... and see how bad it's turning out to be.
As I recall that was profit taking, Apple having risen on rumors.
True, reading glasses are cheap and easy to come by, but it's also true that just about everyone over 45 years old needs them, and is annoyed at having to put them on just to use their smartphone to send a text message. Plus peasant-hands fingers have made the fairly narrow iPhone screen not much fun.
Of course, w/Siri built into the 4S, you don't NEED to put on your glasses to type a text, you hit the mic button (easily visible w/o reading glasses) and talk it in if you want. Also solves the finger problem.
I'm on Sprint and I've been using an LG Lotus for over 2 1/2 years. My wife and I are both getting the 4S ASAP.
And it's my choice to make fun of you for your inane rants.
Virtually every part of the iPhone 4S is significantly improved. If you want to call that a 'damp squib', that's your choice, but don't complain when people with brains and without vested interests laugh at you.
equally don't get your knickers in a twist if people call you nuts here, I wouldn't do that, clown is more fitting definition. You swallow everything the marketing machine of Apple says, try to use your own judgement it can be a liberating experience. I explained you that is not a solid upgrade and gave the example of 3GS. I won't comment on your association with people with brains otherwise I'll laugh uncontrollably.
I already did - at least twice. I guess reading comprehension isn't one of your strengths.
I have no plans to change cell phone providers, so extending my contract for 2 more years doesn't cost me anything. When I do that, I can get a 4S for $199. I can sell my iPhone 4 on eBay for around $300. So, not only does it cost me nothing, but I'll actually pocket close to $100.
you know the old saying, when you are in hole stop digging. You seriously believe you get an upgrade for free? your carrier subsidy your phone at the tune of $450 (you pay $199 towards the cheapest 4S) for nothing? you well pay for it in increased tariff charges, locked in a two year contract and unable to insert another sim card. Try to go abroad and see the roaming charges. The total cost of ownership over a period of two years is lower is you buy it unlocked, plus you are free to change carrier at any time and sell it to anyone on any different carrier. Not to mention the ability to insert local foreign sim card when you travel for business or pleasure.
If you fail to understand this very basic notion, no wonder they take you for a ride every time.
Sorry, I wouldn't use a Galaxy if you gave it to me. I prefer quality products.
Your 'logic' is ridiculous. By your standards, NO phone is ever an upgrade because there will always be something better sometime in the future. That's absurd.
Don't get me wrong, Steve is my idol.
He is chairman of the board not the CEO which means that he will not be involved in the day to day operation and also the design of iPhone already.
The way I see it, the ppl involved starts to get lazy without Steve presence that demand for perfection.
The reason I ask Apple to wake up is because I love the company so much that I does wish it to end up like Nokia.
Nokia have come to the stage where they are now because of their arrogant attitude that they think they are so big that no other company can beat them.
If this simple thing also you cannot understand my friend, you also NEED TO WAKE UP.
Are you fucking kidding me? You are. Right?
Besides the fact that you haven't shown me anything that tells me you know how a corporation works (actually you've shown me the complete opposite), I also see nothing at all that tells me that anyone is getting lazy at Apple.
Comparing Apple to Nokia is the icing on the cake.
BTW - Tim is a perfectionist... if you knew anything about Apple since Tim's been around you'd know that.
yes he still is, but now we have CEO with a charisma of NYC janitor and stern look of high school teacher. Mr Cook had the opportunity to show the world he's up the job but he bombed badly. Anodyne presentation, no new iPhone, luckily Scott and Eddy saved the event, they are more natural presenters. Mr Cook has disappointed big time, if he doesn't come up with something compelling next year (see iPhone 5 and iPad 3) and presented with flair, he'll be deservedly out of the job by 2014
Deservedly?!
Fuck you guys are sad.
If you want to call Steve Jobs an idiot, go ahead. You're welcome to it. Of course you'll look like a moron but...
Do some research.
Deservedly?!
Fuck you guys are sad.
If you want to call Steve Jobs an idiot, go ahead. You're welcome to it. Of course you'll look like a moron but...
Do some research.
I think it's time we pull back and regroup.
This new wave of trolling has even raised solipsism's ire, and that's the only way they can defeat us; dragging us to their level.
They won't go away if we ignore them, but they won't shut up if we don't.
[...]
There are more intelligent and effective ways to disagree with someone than being a crude ass when responding to them. That said, this forum (and every other technology message board on the internet) has plenty of people who either a) don't understand the subjects they're talking about, or b) are in that young stage of life where they think they know everything. When you resort to vulgar insult-riddled responses, you're numbering yourself among them.
There are more intelligent and effective ways to disagree with someone than being a crude ass when responding to them. That said, this forum (and every other technology message board on the internet) has plenty of people who either a) don't understand the subjects they're talking about, or b) are in that young stage of life where they think they know everything. When you resort to vulgar insult-riddled responses, you're numbering yourself among them.
Vulgar... yes. Insult ridden... huh? I didn't insult anyone. The word moron is in the dictionary. Look it up. I said that "if" he said something then he'd look like a moron.
You have your style... I have mine. Please, put me on ignore if you wish,
I think it's time we pull back and regroup.
This new wave of trolling has even raised solipsism's ire, and that's the only way they can defeat us; dragging us to their level.
They won't go away if we ignore them, but they won't shut up if we don't.
It's raised my ire too and it pisses me off.
... and I've never seen these guys go away by ignoring them. To the contrary, they seem to be taking over these boards lately.
Vulgar... yes. Insult ridden... huh? I didn't insult anyone. The word moron is in the dictionary. Look it up. I said that "if" he said something then he'd look like a moron.
You have your style... I have mine. Please, put me on ignore if you wish,
If that's a 'style' you are proud of, that's on you. But I'm sure I'm not the only person here who doesn't want to read posts from members who resort to vulgar language and anger when they encounter opinions they disagree with, regardless of their position in an argument.
If that's a 'style' you are proud of, that's on you. But I'm sure I'm not the only person here who doesn't want to read posts from members who resort to vulgar language and anger when they encounter opinions they disagree with, regardless of their position in an argument.
I'm glad you are so very proud of yourself but don't go judging me or anyone else.
Oh and by the way... I caught you calling me temperamental and immature, you edit faster than I could reply... pot, kettle etc.
By the way 2... anger?? Your perspective... I would place bets that I'm calmer than you.
Use the ignore button, please.
I'm glad you are so very proud of yourself but don't go judging me or anyone else.
Then don't drag the forum down into the gutter in the name of defending it.
Then don't drag the forum down into the gutter in the name of defending it.
Dragging the forum down... shit pal, for god's sake get a life. The only way this forum gets dragged down is by allowing Apple haters to continually post crap. This doesn't include people who have good points as to where they feel Apple is failing but to continually snipe and respond with bullshit quips is ridiculous.
I've asked the mods to go after a couple of people where it's more than obvious but to no avail. Maybe that's what you should be bitching about.
eyou know the old saying, when you are in hole stop digging. You seriously believe you get an upgrade for free? your carrier subsidy your phone at the tune of $450 (you pay $199 towards the cheapest 4S) for nothing? you well pay for it in increased tariff charges, locked in a two year contract and unable to insert another sim card. Try to go abroad and see the roaming charges. The total cost of ownership over a period of two years is lower is you buy it unlocked, plus you are free to change carrier at any time and sell it to anyone on any different carrier. Not to mention the ability to insert local foreign sim card when you travel for business or pleasure.
If you fail to understand this very basic notion, no wonder they take you for a ride every time.
If you're trying to prove that you can't follow a simple logical argument, then you've managed to do so.
As I said (several times), I have no intention of switching cell phone carriers. I don't know where you are, but in the U.S., my monthly fee is going to stay the same whether I upgrade my phone or not. So I'll be paying $100 per month if I keep my iPhone 4 or $100 a month if I upgrade. Upgrading therefore doesn't cost me a penny more in carrier fees.
As for the upfront cost, I can sell my used iPhone 4 for more than I'll pay for a 4S with contract. So it doesn't cost me anything to upgrade.
I don't know how to explain it any simpler. If you can't follow such a simple argument, maybe you should repeat second grade.
Now, if you want to argue that carriers should be forced to lower your rate after your contract expires, I'd agree - and that would change the equation. But as it is, your position makes no sense.
Oh, and btw, buying unlocked phones is even silier. Since I'm staying with AT&T, buying an unlocked phone doesn't reduce my monthly fee one bit. So instead of paying $199 plus the monthly fee, I'll pay $700 (or whatever it is) plus the SAME MONTHLY FEE. How does that make sense?
So if the iP4S isn't a compelling upgrade for a iP4 owner, is it compelling enough for a new user to pay $199 vs $99 for the iP4? If it's all about the superior iOS experience, wouldn't most new users be satisfied with the iP4 (and be easier for salepeople to push the $99 iP4)? At least until a slew of dual-core or uber-graphical apps are released (i.e. next year)?
The hardware upgrade is obviously compelling versus the 3GS, but is it compelling enough knowing that you'd be mid-contract if a 4G/LTE iPhone rolls out next year (I already have LTE coverage, so maybe I'm biased).
The iP4S seems to me to be a "placeholder", so Apple can sell the iP4's cheaply while still having another premium, flagship product holding that higher price point open. I'd agree that the iP4S is relatively better than the iP4, but if you ignore specs on paper and nomenclature, there is far more user experience improvement from iOS5 than from the iP4S. So I'm just not sure that this is the type of flagship I'd expect from Apple.
I think it's time we pull back and regroup.
This new wave of trolling has even raised solipsism's ire, and that's the only way they can defeat us; dragging us to their level.
They won't go away if we ignore them, but they won't shut up if we don't.
If disagreeing with something Apple does is trolling... ok. I would counter that point by saying that defending anything Apple does is also trolling. (or reverse trolling?)
I love Apple- I've had Macs, iPads, iPods, and iPhones for the last 7 years depending on what came out when. But I am just pointing out that everything came out late- and it has since Lion.
Lion came late because they were working on iOS4. Now the excuse (from the defenders) is that iPhone 4S came late because of iCloud/iOS 5/Lion. And that's a valid excuse- and I believe that's what it is. But I do not like this trend (because it happened with Lion and now iOS5) that I'm seeing with Apple.
Proof:
I won't use Leopard/iphone 1 as an example (because it was the first iPhone model)- but Snow Leopard, iOS 3, and the iPhone 3GS all came out within 2 months of each other. 3GS wasn't delayed, nor was Snow Leopard- and the 3GS came out right on time and there was- this is important- no criticism.
Now, we throw iCloud into the mix. Ok- but when we are talking about APPLE- not Microsoft, Google, Amazon- Apple- they need to deliver because that's what they have done in the past. They have always delivered.
Say what you want- call me a troll, whatever. The fact remains that this is the first heavily scrutinized iPhone. Comedians are making fun of it on late night shows, etc. I'm going to buy it- but for everyone to dismiss everything anyone says and calls them "stupid" "trolls" "idiots" shines the light on all of you. You guys are the a-holes who think you know everything. And just because someone doesn't agree with you- they are wrong. Guess what- both can be right.
Typical "tough guys" behind a keyboard that wouldn't ever say that stuff or be such huge arrogant jerks to people in real life. Or maybe you are. Who cares?
4K video
You are completely delusional. Do you know exactly how large a resolution jump 4k is over current phone resolutions? The iPhone 4s is 960*640. Here is what the increases would be for a 4k screen as 4k resolution is 4096*3112:
4.2667x H
4.8625x V
You are not getting a greater than 4x increase in both directions by next year on a phone. Simply not happening.
A flagship phone in 2011 without LTE or WiMAX capacity is BS!!!
2 years of contract to get 3G until end of 2013 is not worthy.
I live in south Florida and just got a Sprint and the WiMAX signal is perfect...
I live in Louisville KY. Over a million person metro area. We aren't on Sprint, AT&T OR Verizon's roadmaps for LTE or WiMax. Now Sprint has a big strategy meeting Friday and for all we know they're shitcanning WiMax and going to LTE, but right now, I have no idea when any of these companies will be giving me faster data, so buying the 4S and having a way better phone than my LG Lotus while I wait for high speed data to be more widespread isn't a bad thing for me. If you are one of the few to actually live in an area that has higher speeds available, then yes, you do likely value it more and that's fine.