iOS chief Scott Forstall profiled as a 'maddeningly political' mini-Steve Jobs

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  • Reply 61 of 88
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,685member
    Quote:

    Look, I just do not buy this democratic mentalliity that gets applied to Apple's leadership. Guys like Jobs, Cook, Forstall, Ives, Mansfield, Schiller- they do what they do because they are brilliant, and if you work for them, you are lucky, as you don't have to worry about the company you work for going under... The egotistical ones are the ones who are mad they are not being listened to when really, they should shut up.



    The problem is, unless Cook takes as much control as Jobs used to, Forstall will piss them off. To be fair Steve Jobs would piss peers off on the way up, too ( had he done that), and would garner loyalty only when on top. Forstall might be better running the place than being amongst equals as VP because clearly he is already annoying some people just as important to the business as he is. Or more so.



    It's possible that was all about garnering favour with Jobs, until now. If so, Steve - by not making Scott CEO - has taken the wings out of that sail. Forstall is not going to be CEO for a decade, and he needs to make friends, not enemies.
  • Reply 62 of 88
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Mix Ive, Cook and Forestall in a blender... and then, and only then, would you have something close to Steve.



    And that's exactly what has happened, minus an actual blender. Plus add Schiller, Mansfield and Cue. Jobs isn't replaceable, and even while most writers are saying so, their next sentence is some form of "but who will replace him?" Apple can function just fine with diversified leadership. Cook is the boss, but at the moment he doesn't know enough to put his fingers in every pot. Jobs' best invention is Apple itself, Apple the machine. His arsenal of VPs know how to drive it.



    Articles like this will attempt to tear Apple apart from the inside. Nothing would please the media and Apple's competitors like an internal struggle, narrated by them like some reality tv show.



    If Forestall takes the helm, it will not return Steve Jobs to Earth or Apple, and it might do more Harm than good if they attempt such a move. Apple is best keeping things running they way they are, following Jobsian principles and policies. The leadership structure is strong and stable provided everyone keeps their egos in check.



    Edit: one more thing- Businessweek's integrity in journalism is questionable lately, to say the least. According to some Daring Fireball-linked sources, this article is chock full of speculation and misquotes, to put it mildly.
  • Reply 63 of 88
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,685member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Hmmm.......



    While the article paints a picture of iPod guru Tony Fadell being crushed by Forstall's machinations during the competition to come up with the iPhone's OS, Fadell sent this note to Businessweek (now appended to the end of the article):







    Which completely contradicts the story. I guess he might be trying to protect Apple, but he hasn't worked there for a while and really doesn't have much motivation for covering for Forstall (particularly if they had the kind of bad relationship depicted in the article).



    Stories that are sourced from a lot of anonymous former employees have to be taken with a grain of salt, IMO.



    The Bussinessweek story doesn't ring true at all. If Forstall was really this uber political hack as portrayed by anonymous sources, Jobs would have seen right through his bullshit and tossed his ass to the curb in a second. That obviously didn't happen.
  • Reply 64 of 88
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    He reminds me of a young Cristopher Walken \





    I was thinking the same thing





    .....Team, I need ....more marketshare
  • Reply 65 of 88
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
    deleted
  • Reply 66 of 88
    kpomkpom Posts: 656member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Y.M.S.BUSHAN View Post


    It is said that Jony Ive would meet Forstall only in the presence of Tim Cook. So Cook and Forestall may be lot closer than you think



    That suggests to me that Ive and Forstall can't stand each other. Cook's challenge will be to manage their egos while giving them the space to do their respective things. He's like a football or basketball coach in that respect. We'll find out soon enough whether he's closer to Dennis Green or Phil Jackson.
  • Reply 67 of 88
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,625member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by frankie View Post


    Could not agree more. Why do the sociopathic douchebags always seem to rise to the top? I guess because humans somehow appreciate those traits? Me, those are the people I tell to F off and would fire if I were running a company.



    I'm not saying Forstall is necessarily like this because I'm only going off the article as well...



    But it sure seems like most middle and upper management of most companies are douchebags.



    I think the amount of focus and concentration that it takes to be a genius frequently doesn't leave much room for the niceties. Maybe because it takes a great deal of ego to become such a success. Such geniuses as Picasso and John Lennon (and reportedly, even Gandhi) frequently treated the people around them like crap.



    My theory is that people like Jobs, Gates and Zuckerberg actually have a mild form of autism or Asperger's syndrome. That syndrome gives them the focus to concentrate on the things that make them successful, but they seem to frequently lack the ability to recognize feelings in other people. That and their egos (because they know they're smarter than everyone else) combine to make them treat other people badly (sometimes to the extent of crossing the line into "hostile working environment", which can drive a lawsuit). Both Jobs and Gates had some "personal hygiene" issues when they were younger and Steve's later obsession with the outfit of black turtleneck and the same model ugly jeans always seemed strange to me, but it's also symbolic of those syndromes. (But I'm not a doctor, so if you disagree with my analysis, that's fine...it's just my opinion.)



    It's one thing to insist on the best and, "the buck stops with me and therefore, I'm going to make the final decision" and quite another to treat people so badly that they want to leave. I've worked for companies who wanted financial rationalizations when I was pushing for higher quality. Obviously, Apple isn't such a company. I think treating people decently is a lesson that Steve eventually learned because I've read interviews where he's said that you have to give people enough responsibility and freedom to do their jobs. According to this article (if accurate) Forstall hasn't learned that yet and that's unfortunate. An exec should do the opposite of what this article claims Forstall does: they should use the word "we" when their team is successful and use the word "I" when they fail. When I was a senior exec and congratulated for some success by an even more senior executive, I would always say something like, "Oh, that was Laura's responsibility. She did a great job with that." But I'm not a genius who has changed the world.



    If Forstall feels that with Steve being gone that he has even more power and is determined to exert it in negative ways, you could have a lot of people leaving Apple, especially the higher-level managers who have large amounts of stock.
  • Reply 68 of 88
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
    deleted
  • Reply 69 of 88
    what, ran out of people to fuss and complain about after jobs
  • Reply 70 of 88
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
    deleted
  • Reply 71 of 88
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    He reminds me of a young Cristopher Walken \



    This comment is full of win.
  • Reply 72 of 88
    jupiteronejupiterone Posts: 1,564member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    He reminds me of a young Cristopher Walken \



    The next iPhone will definitely have more cow bell.
  • Reply 73 of 88
    xsuxsu Posts: 401member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Y.M.S.BUSHAN View Post


    It is said that Jony Ive would meet Forstall only in the presence of Tim Cook. So Cook and Forestall may be lot closer than you think



    That doesn't necessarily mean that at all. It could be that it takes someone in the position of Tim Cook to make sure Forstall stay in line.



    Overall, I say Forstall is an ahole for sure. But visionary like Job? No evidence of that yet.
  • Reply 74 of 88
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,685member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post


    But Forstall's Aqua? Note that its most salient aspects have been successively undone in each iteration of OS X, from the seersucker-striped background and garish clown-exploded-in-your-face colors to the OS X we have now which looks increasingly more like the NeXT UI before Fortstall's Aqua, moving away from distracting colors and unnecessary chrome to subtler monochromatic themes of a far simpler nature which do what Apple does best: put the user's work at the forefront of the experience.



    .



    Lets not get too ahead of ourselves here and blame Scott for everything. Apple's structure is not what is reported in this article. Scott, before heading iOs was head of the AppKit division, not OS X, and not design. Bertrand Serlet ran OS X reporting to Avie Tevanian. The UI design team reported to Serlet, but in reality to Jobs. S Jobs was heavily involved in Aqua, which - to my mind - served it's purpose. Scott might, or might not, have been involved in Aqua meetings.



    i know he did write the NSTableView though, the precursor of the UITableView, mainstay of the iPhone.
  • Reply 75 of 88
    elrothelroth Posts: 1,201member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Y.M.S.BUSHAN View Post


    It is said that Jony Ive would meet Forstall only in the presence of Tim Cook. So Cook and Forestall may be lot closer than you think



    Or that Cook is a moderating influence on Forstall (in addition to being his boss), so that Forstall doesn't try to overpower or belittle people in Cook's presence.
  • Reply 76 of 88
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
    deleted
  • Reply 77 of 88
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,685member
    They're quoting from Business Insider, which is wrong.The aqua guy was Don Lindsay - well he was the manager.



    See here:



    http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-...indsay-815949/



    EDIT: to explain why I know. I've seen and met Scott, Don and Bertrand Serlet back when WWDCs were smallish events. Never saw steve outside of the keynote, though.
  • Reply 78 of 88
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    I like him speaking better than Cook. I always thought he'd end up getting the big chair after Jobs left. He certainly seems most capable of carrying Jobs' vision forward.
  • Reply 79 of 88
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,787moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    The magazine describes him, in many ways, as a mini-Steve Jobs.



    It's inevitable that people look to fill the Steve-shaped hole at Apple's core but you don't replace a mould-breaker by fitting someone else into their image. Scott has his own personality and his own way of working and he'll define his own place in Apple.



    I think he'd make a good leader because he has an understanding of the operating system down to the very base level and having this understanding helps with important decisions and timeframes. He also seems to have an interest in gaming and is passionate about things young people are passionate about.



    He also seems like a really genuine person. Obviously the people who have suffered as a result of his leadership will have criticisms but he seems like a strong member of Apple's team and hopefully he will stay a long time at the company.



    I don't think there's any reason to think he needs to replace Cook or anything like that but more stage presence would be welcome. I could watch a whole hour of just him and guest speakers and I couldn't say the same for any other presenter. There are other good presenters but I think Scott is the best and he has a good sense of humour.
  • Reply 80 of 88
    jd_in_sbjd_in_sb Posts: 1,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    He reminds me of a young Cristopher Walken \



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