Nope. Stock brokers, for example, are part of Wall Street and they make money by, among other things, getting people to buy Apple stock. Every time we see AAPL go up in price, we know that huge amounts of money have been made by the Street, by Financial Service Companies and the retail brokers who work for them, in commissions alone.
Most of the money is made by the gigantic corporations like Apple and their CEOs, but huge amounts are made by the "bottom tier" of the 1% too, who don't make money from equity ownership, but merely by picking up little crumbs whenever they pass a piece of the pie to one of the big guys.
I think we agree - one need not own AAPL in order to profit from it. But if you DO own it, you love to see the 99% buying Apple products.
But commissions are made regardless of whether people are buying Apple stock or any other stock and commissions are made regardless of whether you buy or sell, so I don't think one can legimately argue that brokers are encouraging people to buy Apple just so they make commissions.
Besides, many small investors go through services like E-Trade which have discounted commissions or if they're big investors, they pay based upon their total asset value, so they can trade as often as they'd like without paying additional commissions.
The stock sliding to a monthly low of $360 immediately after the announcement?
Are you deliberately distorting the truth or did you not actually pay attention to the stock price?
AAPL was dropping, along with the rest of NASDAQ since the last 10 days in September. The drop on Oct 4 was 0.5% - very minuscule. And then the stock rose on Oct 5, the day when the so-called doom and gloom reviews were actually published. There is no way in hell or on earth you can meaningfully attribute any AAPL stock movement to the Oct 4 announcement. It has been moving down and up with NASDAQ.
So, are you dishonest or ignorant?
News reports were out immediately after the announcement, which itself was liveblogged at numerous web sites. Nearly all commentary during and immediately after the announcement was negative. If you look at the stock prices of that day, you will see that the drop in Apple's stock coincided almost exactly with the announcement.
We ordered a couple 4S models through work that were supposed to show up Friday and didn't. AT&T called up late afternoon and offered a $50 credit per phone for the mix-up. They showed up this morning....so not all bad news!
Yes - I'm going to have to second that. If you don't have anything intelligent to add, ridicule is not the answer. You can always ignore instead.
I agree with you that ignoring is best, but he got me riled up there for a second. He's trying to manufacture a controversy by injecting a political issue into a simple story of record-breaking sales.
Therefore, I don't agree with you that he should be "seconded," because he is raising a bogus argument that should not be engaged in any way, because it's completely, cynically contrived to poison the discussion.
Please understand that a phone is often considered to be a personal item. As such, Siri is expecting the owners voice ... which it will learn about and continue to get more information and do a better job. When you bring in a new voice (daughter) ... now you have created a challenge that was not the intent... IHMO
This is most definitely true!
My daughter and her 3 children's last name starts with "Gi" was in "Gilbert".
Siri pronounced it "Ji" as in "Jim".
I told Siri the name of each of them -- as in the contacts list. Then, repeatedly asked for them by the correct pronunciation.
After a while, Siri picked up the correct pronunciation!
I agree with you that ignoring is best, but he got me riled up there for a second. He's trying to manufacture a controversy by injecting a political issue into a simple story of record-breaking sales.
Therefore, I don't agree with you that he should be "seconded," because he is raising a bogus argument that should not be engaged in any way, because it's completely, cynically contrived to poison the discussion.
Also, when someone hijacks a thread like that they get quoted a bunch so putting them on ignore doesn't help.
iLounge has done what appears to be a pretty thorough test of the new 4S. Their experience with battery life compared to the iPhone4 differs a bit from Apple's spec claims.
"Perhaps the biggest surprise in our iPhone 4S testing was its battery life. We suspected that something unusual was going on when Apple published its initial iPhone 4S battery life estimates, which oddly showed the new device improving in 3G talk time, standing still in 3G Internet use, and falling behind in both standby time and Wi-Fi Internet use. How could the new device improve or stand still in some categories and fall short in others that were seemingly related? After three days of non-stop testing, we had a clear answer: the iPhone 4S is generally more power hungry than the iPhone 4, and Apple has only made the slightest capacity improvement to the iPhone 4S?s battery. Moreover, whereas Apple underpromised with the iPhone 4?s battery estimates, it comes closer to overpromising with the iPhone 4S."
Hey GG, as usual, can't wait to spread the bad news about Apple, huh?
I agree with you that ignoring is best, but he got me riled up there for a second. He's trying to manufacture a controversy by injecting a political issue into a simple story of record-breaking sales.
Therefore, I don't agree with you that he should be "seconded," because he is raising a bogus argument that should not be engaged in any way, because it's completely, cynically contrived to poison the discussion.
Doesn't matter whether the argument is bogus or not. If it's bogus then refute and expose it as such, or just ignore it. Juvenile insults represent the archetypal ad hominem response (in this case "you are a troll therefore you are wrong"), and contribute nothing. That was the point that I seconded - nothing to do with the original argument or the intent behind it.
Doesn't matter whether the argument is bogus or not. If it's bogus then refute and expose it as such, or just ignore it. Juvenile insults represent the archetypal ad hominem response (in this case "you are a troll therefore you are wrong"), and contribute nothing. That was the point that I seconded - nothing to do with the original argument or the intent behind it.
Right you are, ignore is the best policy.
Refute is the worst, because it perpetuates the original deceptive baiting, It springs the troll trap. Second worst is to resort to anti-troll insult. Guilty as charged, no contest.
Try to dispute the points I made rather than engage in name-calling. Grow up.
Take away the frills, the fancy language, the attitude, and dispute what I said:
The 1% own Apple. The 99% give Apple money.
You make no sense. The protests are about wall street financial services firms that destroyed the American economy and then received trillions of dollars in bail out money, and they are resisting being regulated, while still giving out huge bonuses to their executives.
Whether someone agrees with the protestors or not, it is fairly clear that the aim isn't about individual corporations.
I got my pre-order at Best Buy. Went there at 8 AM, no one was there. Worked fine, except the bill I sent in on Tuesday hadn't processed yet, so we had to run down to the AT&T store, cut the line (with a very nice person at the head willing to wait an extra few moments while we used the kiosk to pay the bill), pay the bill, and ran back to best buy. And for preordering I got a killer set of Headphones free. Got a new case at Target yesterday. I am adoring my phone. I haven't had a new one in ages and it feels so nice to get something so nice and new.
Cellular data: All about an hour less than the iPhone 4, but only a few minutes behind actual promised time. Sprint is lowest.
WiFi Data: 5 minutes less than the iPhone 4 and both about a half hour under promised time
Cellular Calling: More time promised than iPhone 4. The 4 beat it's promise by 6 minutes, The AT&T 4S is 44 minutes under, Verizon is 27 mins over and Sprint is well in last again by being 93 minutes under promise.
I'm wondering if there isn't some firmware issue specific to the Sprint model, b/c it's numbers are significantly different than the other 2 and nothing really stands out for why that would be occurring. Hopefully those times can be improved w/updates.
EDIT: Updated w/the +/- from each phone based on their original promise. So the iPhone 4 is compared against it's 10 hr promise for Wi-Fi, where the 4S is promised against 9 hrs, so it is compared w/that promise.
You make no sense. The protests are about wall street financial services firms that destroyed the American economy and then received trillions of dollars in bail out money, and they are resisting being regulated, while still giving out huge bonuses to their executives.
Whether someone agrees with the protestors or not, it is fairly clear that the aim isn't about individual corporations.
Apple makes is money by developing and refining technology - it is not borrowing money from the government and then trying to loan it back to people with interest here.
Is Apple a saint? No. I don't like this latest lobbying effort by them trying to get money into the US they have in foreign accounts back in tax-free, but then again, if I had that much money tied up I'd look for a way out too, so I can't be that angry for them trying to do something with a few lobbyists. But really, Apple financial people, just pay the damned taxes.
But overall, I think if more companies were like Apple we'd be better off then if we had more BoAs and Koch Industries.
This is silly. So what if the stock dropped right after the iPhone announcement? Apple is hedge fund managers favorite stock. The hedge funds benefit when the stock goes up and down. The reality is the stock dropped in a extremely weak market. The only thing buoying the stock up in the weak market was rumors in the form of so called news articles about a product Apple gave no indications of announcing. Like with earnings, many people bought the stock before keynote with the sole intention of selling it afterwards. Same thing with earnings. Apple often times announces record breaking earnings just to have the stock drop the next day.
Apple is the most manipulated stock on the market. If you have money, guts, and watch the stock regularly you can make a lot of money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44
You do know there is such a thing as "intraday" trades, right? And that the closing price isn't any more special than any other price?
Fortunately, there is actually data behind this...
Go have a look at the drop in the stock price during/after the keynote. Its extremely evident.
However, enter th date range 10/03-10/17 in google finance, and hover over 10/4....it drops to 359 after the announcement (about 3PM)....it remains low till 10/7, and then shoots up, as the news about record preorders comes in.
It is ridiculous for companies like Apple to want to bring this money back into the country tax free. The reason so much money is overseas is because a lot of so called American companies in the greatest economic boom of our times got greedy and lobbied to do away with import taxes in the form of so called free trade agreements.
Those import taxes made it so american workers didn't have to compete with foreign products made by Countries where they couldn't compete fairly because of a foreign subsidized work force. For instance, China. Prior to the eighties, Dell, Apple, Gateway, HP all made their products in the US or European Countries, such as Ireland, that didn't have a subsidized work force.
PRoducts that came from Countries like China were taxed to take away the advantage. This tax paid for government services. American companies didn't want to pay the import tax so they made things in the US and other countries we could compete fairly with. This kept a lot of jobs here, creating wages, taxes, and pride.
WIth the so called free trade agreement companies not only didn't have to pay import taxes, but also got to claim tax breaks for running operations overseas. They even saved more in taxes by claiming a certain percentage of their money was generated overseas. If I made money overseas and wanted to bring it home, I am going to pay a tax. Big companies want to bring that home tax free not to create jobs, but to give out tax free bonuses. If they want to bring the money back tax free there should be a guarantee the government is getting something in return equally as valuable.
Companies want to call themselves American, but do not want to contribute taxes to build the infrastructure of our Country, and do not want to hire Americans. McDonalds is actually experimenting with having its drive through orders handled overseas so when you place an order you will be talking to perhaps somebody from India.
Soon we will be like Egypt where we live in slums and half the population begs for a living.
PS.
I am a Apple stock holder and am happy about the increased sales. As soon as I get a chance to play with one, I may buy two 4S phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintstryfe
Apple makes is money by developing and refining technology - it is not borrowing money from the government and then trying to loan it back to people with interest here.
Is Apple a saint? No. I don't like this latest lobbying effort by them trying to get money into the US they have in foreign accounts back in tax-free, but then again, if I had that much money tied up I'd look for a way out too, so I can't be that angry for them trying to do something with a few lobbyists. But really, Apple financial people, just pay the damned taxes.
But overall, I think if more companies were like Apple we'd be better off then if we had more BoAs and Koch Industries.
I wonder how many (of which I am included) were duped into preordering from AT&T in store? My phone, which AT&T promised would arrive on 10/14 = 10/15, has not even shipped yet. Yet, I was able to walk into 2 AT&T stores on 10/14 and find that they both had over 300 extra iPhones after the small lines. Heck both stores still had a few iPhone 4S models as of 5PM yesterday. The lines were small because the stores pushed in-store preorders. Of course the store wouldn't allow for cancellation of the preorders so I could pick the phone up on 10/14. Instead I have to wait another 2 weeks for my "preordered" phone. Nice.
Lesson learned. NEVER preorder via AT&T. Anyone else have this problem?
I preordered two iphones directly from ATT that were delivered on 10/14. They didn't ship until 10/13 though, overnight fedex.
Comments
Nope. Stock brokers, for example, are part of Wall Street and they make money by, among other things, getting people to buy Apple stock. Every time we see AAPL go up in price, we know that huge amounts of money have been made by the Street, by Financial Service Companies and the retail brokers who work for them, in commissions alone.
Most of the money is made by the gigantic corporations like Apple and their CEOs, but huge amounts are made by the "bottom tier" of the 1% too, who don't make money from equity ownership, but merely by picking up little crumbs whenever they pass a piece of the pie to one of the big guys.
I think we agree - one need not own AAPL in order to profit from it. But if you DO own it, you love to see the 99% buying Apple products.
But commissions are made regardless of whether people are buying Apple stock or any other stock and commissions are made regardless of whether you buy or sell, so I don't think one can legimately argue that brokers are encouraging people to buy Apple just so they make commissions.
Besides, many small investors go through services like E-Trade which have discounted commissions or if they're big investors, they pay based upon their total asset value, so they can trade as often as they'd like without paying additional commissions.
The stock sliding to a monthly low of $360 immediately after the announcement?
Are you deliberately distorting the truth or did you not actually pay attention to the stock price?
AAPL was dropping, along with the rest of NASDAQ since the last 10 days in September. The drop on Oct 4 was 0.5% - very minuscule. And then the stock rose on Oct 5, the day when the so-called doom and gloom reviews were actually published. There is no way in hell or on earth you can meaningfully attribute any AAPL stock movement to the Oct 4 announcement. It has been moving down and up with NASDAQ.
So, are you dishonest or ignorant?
News reports were out immediately after the announcement, which itself was liveblogged at numerous web sites. Nearly all commentary during and immediately after the announcement was negative. If you look at the stock prices of that day, you will see that the drop in Apple's stock coincided almost exactly with the announcement.
Yes - I'm going to have to second that. If you don't have anything intelligent to add, ridicule is not the answer. You can always ignore instead.
I agree with you that ignoring is best, but he got me riled up there for a second. He's trying to manufacture a controversy by injecting a political issue into a simple story of record-breaking sales.
Therefore, I don't agree with you that he should be "seconded," because he is raising a bogus argument that should not be engaged in any way, because it's completely, cynically contrived to poison the discussion.
Please understand that a phone is often considered to be a personal item. As such, Siri is expecting the owners voice ... which it will learn about and continue to get more information and do a better job. When you bring in a new voice (daughter) ... now you have created a challenge that was not the intent... IHMO
This is most definitely true!
My daughter and her 3 children's last name starts with "Gi" was in "Gilbert".
Siri pronounced it "Ji" as in "Jim".
I told Siri the name of each of them -- as in the contacts list. Then, repeatedly asked for them by the correct pronunciation.
After a while, Siri picked up the correct pronunciation!
Siri calls me: "Grandpa Wonderful"
I agree with you that ignoring is best, but he got me riled up there for a second. He's trying to manufacture a controversy by injecting a political issue into a simple story of record-breaking sales.
Therefore, I don't agree with you that he should be "seconded," because he is raising a bogus argument that should not be engaged in any way, because it's completely, cynically contrived to poison the discussion.
Also, when someone hijacks a thread like that they get quoted a bunch so putting them on ignore doesn't help.
iLounge has done what appears to be a pretty thorough test of the new 4S. Their experience with battery life compared to the iPhone4 differs a bit from Apple's spec claims.
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/rev...b-32gb-64gb/P5
"Perhaps the biggest surprise in our iPhone 4S testing was its battery life. We suspected that something unusual was going on when Apple published its initial iPhone 4S battery life estimates, which oddly showed the new device improving in 3G talk time, standing still in 3G Internet use, and falling behind in both standby time and Wi-Fi Internet use. How could the new device improve or stand still in some categories and fall short in others that were seemingly related? After three days of non-stop testing, we had a clear answer: the iPhone 4S is generally more power hungry than the iPhone 4, and Apple has only made the slightest capacity improvement to the iPhone 4S?s battery. Moreover, whereas Apple underpromised with the iPhone 4?s battery estimates, it comes closer to overpromising with the iPhone 4S."
Hey GG, as usual, can't wait to spread the bad news about Apple, huh?
So predictable.
. . .
I told Siri the name of each of them -- as in the contacts list. Then, repeatedly asked for them by the correct pronunciation.
After a while, Siri picked up the correct pronunciation!
Siri calls me: "Grandpa Wonderful"
It seems the computer gets to know you, then.
This is going to be very, very big, as big or bigger than touch.
Hey GG, as usual, can't wait to spread the bad news about Apple, huh?
So predictable.
But it's the truth. Why shouldn't it be reported. Granted this has nothing to do with sales. So in reality it's off topic.
I agree with you that ignoring is best, but he got me riled up there for a second. He's trying to manufacture a controversy by injecting a political issue into a simple story of record-breaking sales.
Therefore, I don't agree with you that he should be "seconded," because he is raising a bogus argument that should not be engaged in any way, because it's completely, cynically contrived to poison the discussion.
Doesn't matter whether the argument is bogus or not. If it's bogus then refute and expose it as such, or just ignore it. Juvenile insults represent the archetypal ad hominem response (in this case "you are a troll therefore you are wrong"), and contribute nothing. That was the point that I seconded - nothing to do with the original argument or the intent behind it.
Doesn't matter whether the argument is bogus or not. If it's bogus then refute and expose it as such, or just ignore it. Juvenile insults represent the archetypal ad hominem response (in this case "you are a troll therefore you are wrong"), and contribute nothing. That was the point that I seconded - nothing to do with the original argument or the intent behind it.
Right you are, ignore is the best policy.
Refute is the worst, because it perpetuates the original deceptive baiting, It springs the troll trap. Second worst is to resort to anti-troll insult. Guilty as charged, no contest.
Try to dispute the points I made rather than engage in name-calling. Grow up.
Take away the frills, the fancy language, the attitude, and dispute what I said:
The 1% own Apple. The 99% give Apple money.
You make no sense. The protests are about wall street financial services firms that destroyed the American economy and then received trillions of dollars in bail out money, and they are resisting being regulated, while still giving out huge bonuses to their executives.
Whether someone agrees with the protestors or not, it is fairly clear that the aim isn't about individual corporations.
But it's the truth. Why shouldn't it be reported. Granted this has nothing to do with sales. So in reality it's off topic.
Here are the actual figures from that ilounge report:
Cellular Data. Apple promises up to 6 hours of 3G Internet use.
iPhone 4 6:47 run time 407 +13.06%
AT&T iPhone 4S 5:54 run time 354 -1.67%
Verizon iPhone 4S 5:53 353 -1.94%
Sprint iPhone 4S 5:23 323 -10.28%
Wi-Fi Data. Apple promises up to 9 hours of Wi-Fi Internet use, down from 10 hours on the iPhone 4
iPhone 4 8:35 515 -14.17% (from 10 hr promise)
iPhone 4S 8:30 510 -5.56% (from 9 hr promise)
iPhone 4 iOS 5 8:18 498 -17% (from 10 hr promise)
Cellular Calling. Apple now promises up to 8 hours of 3G calling time with the iPhone 4S, up from 7 on the iPhone 4.
AT&T iPhone 4 7:06 426 +1.43% (from 7 hr promise)
AT&T iPhone 4S 7:16 436 -9.17% (from 8 hr promise)
Verizon iPhone 4S 8:27 507 +5.63% (from 8 hr promise)
Sprint iPhone 4S 6:27 387 -19.37% (from 8 hr promise)
Cellular data: All about an hour less than the iPhone 4, but only a few minutes behind actual promised time. Sprint is lowest.
WiFi Data: 5 minutes less than the iPhone 4 and both about a half hour under promised time
Cellular Calling: More time promised than iPhone 4. The 4 beat it's promise by 6 minutes, The AT&T 4S is 44 minutes under, Verizon is 27 mins over and Sprint is well in last again by being 93 minutes under promise.
I'm wondering if there isn't some firmware issue specific to the Sprint model, b/c it's numbers are significantly different than the other 2 and nothing really stands out for why that would be occurring. Hopefully those times can be improved w/updates.
EDIT: Updated w/the +/- from each phone based on their original promise. So the iPhone 4 is compared against it's 10 hr promise for Wi-Fi, where the 4S is promised against 9 hrs, so it is compared w/that promise.
You make no sense. The protests are about wall street financial services firms that destroyed the American economy and then received trillions of dollars in bail out money, and they are resisting being regulated, while still giving out huge bonuses to their executives.
Whether someone agrees with the protestors or not, it is fairly clear that the aim isn't about individual corporations.
Apple makes is money by developing and refining technology - it is not borrowing money from the government and then trying to loan it back to people with interest here.
Is Apple a saint? No. I don't like this latest lobbying effort by them trying to get money into the US they have in foreign accounts back in tax-free, but then again, if I had that much money tied up I'd look for a way out too, so I can't be that angry for them trying to do something with a few lobbyists. But really, Apple financial people, just pay the damned taxes.
But overall, I think if more companies were like Apple we'd be better off then if we had more BoAs and Koch Industries.
would prefer to get 18 months of no interest - even if that means waiting a few weeks to get one.
This is most definitely true!
My daughter and her 3 children's last name starts with "Gi" was in "Gilbert".
Siri pronounced it "Ji" as in "Jim".
I told Siri the name of each of them -- as in the contacts list. Then, repeatedly asked for them by the correct pronunciation.
After a while, Siri picked up the correct pronunciation!
Siri calls me: "Grandpa Wonderful"
How interesting. What was the conversation like? In other words, how did you communicate pronunciation to Siri?
Apple is the most manipulated stock on the market. If you have money, guts, and watch the stock regularly you can make a lot of money.
You do know there is such a thing as "intraday" trades, right? And that the closing price isn't any more special than any other price?
Fortunately, there is actually data behind this...
Go have a look at the drop in the stock price during/after the keynote. Its extremely evident.
http://www.google.com//finance?chdnp...AQ:AAPL&ntsp=0
Edit: The link isnt working great...
However, enter th date range 10/03-10/17 in google finance, and hover over 10/4....it drops to 359 after the announcement (about 3PM)....it remains low till 10/7, and then shoots up, as the news about record preorders comes in.
Those import taxes made it so american workers didn't have to compete with foreign products made by Countries where they couldn't compete fairly because of a foreign subsidized work force. For instance, China. Prior to the eighties, Dell, Apple, Gateway, HP all made their products in the US or European Countries, such as Ireland, that didn't have a subsidized work force.
PRoducts that came from Countries like China were taxed to take away the advantage. This tax paid for government services. American companies didn't want to pay the import tax so they made things in the US and other countries we could compete fairly with. This kept a lot of jobs here, creating wages, taxes, and pride.
WIth the so called free trade agreement companies not only didn't have to pay import taxes, but also got to claim tax breaks for running operations overseas. They even saved more in taxes by claiming a certain percentage of their money was generated overseas. If I made money overseas and wanted to bring it home, I am going to pay a tax. Big companies want to bring that home tax free not to create jobs, but to give out tax free bonuses. If they want to bring the money back tax free there should be a guarantee the government is getting something in return equally as valuable.
Companies want to call themselves American, but do not want to contribute taxes to build the infrastructure of our Country, and do not want to hire Americans. McDonalds is actually experimenting with having its drive through orders handled overseas so when you place an order you will be talking to perhaps somebody from India.
Soon we will be like Egypt where we live in slums and half the population begs for a living.
PS.
I am a Apple stock holder and am happy about the increased sales. As soon as I get a chance to play with one, I may buy two 4S phones.
Apple makes is money by developing and refining technology - it is not borrowing money from the government and then trying to loan it back to people with interest here.
Is Apple a saint? No. I don't like this latest lobbying effort by them trying to get money into the US they have in foreign accounts back in tax-free, but then again, if I had that much money tied up I'd look for a way out too, so I can't be that angry for them trying to do something with a few lobbyists. But really, Apple financial people, just pay the damned taxes.
But overall, I think if more companies were like Apple we'd be better off then if we had more BoAs and Koch Industries.
I wonder how many (of which I am included) were duped into preordering from AT&T in store? My phone, which AT&T promised would arrive on 10/14 = 10/15, has not even shipped yet. Yet, I was able to walk into 2 AT&T stores on 10/14 and find that they both had over 300 extra iPhones after the small lines. Heck both stores still had a few iPhone 4S models as of 5PM yesterday. The lines were small because the stores pushed in-store preorders. Of course the store wouldn't allow for cancellation of the preorders so I could pick the phone up on 10/14. Instead I have to wait another 2 weeks for my "preordered" phone. Nice.
Lesson learned. NEVER preorder via AT&T. Anyone else have this problem?
I preordered two iphones directly from ATT that were delivered on 10/14. They didn't ship until 10/13 though, overnight fedex.