So far, no medical treatment has proven to cure Cancer.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Cancer survival rates are greatly improving. Sadly as all cancers are different, and manifest themselves differently in each patient, there's still a long way to go. Science is getting there though.
Steve Jobs lived life on his own terms. We don't know for sure if putting off surgery lessoned his chances, but in hindsight it certainly didn't help him. I remember after the surgery they announced that the tumor was fully removed. But cancer is a tricky disease because it can re-appear at anytime and in any place. I am just thankful for the time we did have Steve Jobs with us. It's obvious from the speech he gave at Stanford, that as a Buddhist he believed in the cycle of life, death, and re-birth. Perhaps he had a different perspective than most people...
Pancreatic cancer is one of the most lethal forms there is, with a five year survival rate of less than 10%. Its likely therefore that no matter what Jobs did he would not live for decades. Going seven years is pretty good going if you ask me - that's 2 years longer than 90% of people who suffer from Cancer of the Pancreas.
Of course he regretted not doing all he could as early as possible, but that's only natural and probably wouldn't have made much difference to the outcome.
The form of pancreatic cancer Jobs had (islet-cell neuroendocrine) is treatable and actually has a median survival time of 10 years. The much more common form of pancreatic cancer (adenocarcinoma) has a median survival rate of around 6 months.
Jobs' delay in seeking treatment may have shortened his life.
So far, no medical treatment has proven to cure Cancer.
That depends on what you consider the test for being cured is. Does Lance Armstrong have any signs of cancer right now? Sure, it may come back.
My mom dealt with breast cancer - 15 years ago. She's fine now. She's 78. If she makes it the rest of her life with no recurrence, was she considered cured?
Does removal of the cancerous cells (or organs) count as medical "treatment?"
Cervical cancer is considered curable, if found early enough.
Pancreatic cancer is one of the most lethal forms there is, with a five year survival rate of less than 10%. Its likely therefore that no matter what Jobs did he would not live for decades. Going seven years is pretty good going if you ask me - that's 2 years longer than 90% of people who suffer from Cancer of the Pancreas.
Of course he regretted not doing all he could as early as possible, but that's only natural and probably wouldn't have made much difference to the outcome.
Such a smart man with so much going for him and still he thought in a stupid (and selfish) manner. One might argue that it is not selfish thinking but it is. One needs to think about how their life touches everyone else in their life when making a decision about how to go about treating a terminal illness.
Having said that, I know and understand his reasoning, and have felt the same way at one time, but never again. I was lucky.
I wouldn't attribute the decision-making on stupidity. I would attribute it more to fear, which is probably what all of us would feel if faced by the same circumstance. But now that we have his example to remind us, we will probably be able conquer our fears should we find ourselves in a similar situation.
So far, no medical treatment has proven to cure Cancer.
No but at this point medical intervention probably offers a better prognosis than a herbal / spiritual route after diagnosis.
The medical route would definitely seem the better and more pragmatic choice when the diagnosis was an early stage and operable variety of a normally much more deadly one.
Bull. Not when you have kids, loved ones, a corporation and millions of fans out there. It probably was his arrogant self serving self assurance - which was an instrumental part of his driving force and which made him great - that also prevented him from taking sensible advice and instead only listen to himself. Stupidly. Sadly. Not to pass judgement but to call his survival 'the desire of others' is ridiculous.
I would stop at kids and loved ones. All the rest are immaterial in this discussion.
Alternative medicines can be beneficial in some cases. But when Cancer is involved, bring on the surgery, drugs, and radiation.
There's a word for alternative medicine that works. It's called medicine.
If you have any disease, please trust real doctors with real medical qualifications. Alternative medicine has left us with Apple minus Steve Jobs and wrong-sounding muppets.
As someone with OCD about contamination from other people and thus is repulsed by blood transfusions and organ transplants I totally sympathise with Jobs.
At least he wasnt in the UK and so didnt have to put up with our lousy NHS (No Help Service) with thier arrogant rude and intimidating doctors, (just what you need whe youre ill & scared) dirty hospitals and second hand surgical instruments from cheap manufacturers in India with blood on them.
At least he wasnt in the UK and so didnt have to put up with our lousy NHS (No Help Service) with thier arrogant rude and intimidating doctors, (just what you need whe youre ill & scared) dirty hospitals and second hand surgical instruments from cheap manufacturers in India with blood on them.
There's a word for alternative medicine that works. It's called medicine.
If you have any disease, please trust real doctors with real medical qualifications. Alternative medicine has left us with Apple minus Steve Jobs and wrong-sounding muppets.
Alternative medicine is becoming intricately added to most major US Medical University Schools.
Please be careful in defining the term, ``alternative medicine,'' as that includes ares of Acupuncture, physical massage therapies, dieting and much more.
Sorry, but bombarding the body with heavy doses of radiation, or target specific isotopes is not the solution.
I've had 9 members in my family with 9 different types of cancer. They've all died within 18 months after surgery and radiation.
This is a ridiculous statement. Cancer is no joke. Further, deciding on a care treatment plan is also no joke. You will get different opinions from different highly qualified experts. You also have to weigh the options in relation to the risk involved and quality of life after treatment. Generally the treatments will only add a couple of extra years of life. Is that worth it if the risk of death is high from the treatment and the quality of life afterwards low? Maybe not.
Moreover, Jobs was a very holistic person who embraced alternative forms of medicine that for something less serious may have been a plausible form of treatment. On top of all that you typically have to make decisions relatively quickly all while processing life shattering news.
It is quite easy to judge something from an outside perspective after the fact. Making these decisions, however, is an entirely different matter. From all I read Jobs was lucky to get the years he did, and even if he could have received more years, the odds of it being very many more was low.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter
Such a smart man with so much going for him and still he thought in a stupid (and selfish) manner. One might argue that it is not selfish thinking but it is. One needs to think about how their life touches everyone else in their life when making a decision about how to go about treating a terminal illness.
Having said that, I know and understand his reasoning, and have felt the same way at one time, but never again. I was lucky.
Unlike most americans, at least he had health insurance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian
At least he wasnt in the UK and so didnt have to put up with our lousy NHS (No Help Service) with thier arrogant rude and intimidating doctors, (just what you need whe youre ill & scared) dirty hospitals and second hand surgical instruments from cheap manufacturers in India with blood on them.
I wouldn't attribute the decision-making on stupidity. I would attribute it more to fear, which is probably what all of us would feel if faced by the same circumstance. But now that we have his example to remind us, we will probably be able conquer our fears should we find ourselves in a similar situation.
I don't have the article in front of me, so I'm paraphrasing; but in the late 90's timeframe in an interview in one of the business mags (Fortune, I think), Jobs was asked if he had any regrets (they were talking about the whole getting fired from Apple, starting Next, coming back to Apple?all that stuff Jobs went through back then).
His response was something along the lines of: "Sure, there are a zillion things I wish I had done differently. But I think things you truly regret are the things you didn't do. You always regret not asking that girl to dance."
It's the hard things, the scary things, the things that you didn't have the courage to do at the time, that you later regret. For all the man's creative and technical genius, he was just a man.
Bull is right. I doubt you are somebody who has experience with cancer. In reality there generally is no one clearly right path somebody provides you. You have experts who have different opinions. Sometimes there is no one established answer. Instead you are given a variety of treatment options along with an outline of established risks and quality of life prognostications. You ultimately are left deciding what risks you are willing to accept. If Jobs was told his chance of full recovery was extremely low and the cost of treatment in terms of its effect on him was extremely high, his choice might have been the correct one.
It is impossible to make judgements about Jobs without understanding what the experts had to say (which nobody will ever know because his medical records will be sealed forever) and how they said it. Even if Jobs regrets his choices, he was doing so in hindsight. It doesn't mean the choices he made were incorrect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
Bull. Not when you have kids, loved ones, a corporation and millions of fans out there. It probably was his arrogant self serving self assurance - which was an instrumental part of his driving force and which made him great - that also prevented him from taking sensible advice and instead only listen to himself. Stupidly. Sadly. Not to pass judgement but to call his survival 'the desire of others' is ridiculous.
Comments
So far, no medical treatment has proven to cure Cancer.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Cancer survival rates are greatly improving. Sadly as all cancers are different, and manifest themselves differently in each patient, there's still a long way to go. Science is getting there though.
Pancreatic cancer is one of the most lethal forms there is, with a five year survival rate of less than 10%. Its likely therefore that no matter what Jobs did he would not live for decades. Going seven years is pretty good going if you ask me - that's 2 years longer than 90% of people who suffer from Cancer of the Pancreas.
Of course he regretted not doing all he could as early as possible, but that's only natural and probably wouldn't have made much difference to the outcome.
The form of pancreatic cancer Jobs had (islet-cell neuroendocrine) is treatable and actually has a median survival time of 10 years. The much more common form of pancreatic cancer (adenocarcinoma) has a median survival rate of around 6 months.
Jobs' delay in seeking treatment may have shortened his life.
So far, no medical treatment has proven to cure Cancer.
That depends on what you consider the test for being cured is. Does Lance Armstrong have any signs of cancer right now? Sure, it may come back.
My mom dealt with breast cancer - 15 years ago. She's fine now. She's 78. If she makes it the rest of her life with no recurrence, was she considered cured?
Does removal of the cancerous cells (or organs) count as medical "treatment?"
Cervical cancer is considered curable, if found early enough.
Pancreatic cancer is one of the most lethal forms there is, with a five year survival rate of less than 10%. Its likely therefore that no matter what Jobs did he would not live for decades. Going seven years is pretty good going if you ask me - that's 2 years longer than 90% of people who suffer from Cancer of the Pancreas.
Of course he regretted not doing all he could as early as possible, but that's only natural and probably wouldn't have made much difference to the outcome.
I completely agree.
Such a smart man with so much going for him and still he thought in a stupid (and selfish) manner. One might argue that it is not selfish thinking but it is. One needs to think about how their life touches everyone else in their life when making a decision about how to go about treating a terminal illness.
Having said that, I know and understand his reasoning, and have felt the same way at one time, but never again. I was lucky.
I wouldn't attribute the decision-making on stupidity. I would attribute it more to fear, which is probably what all of us would feel if faced by the same circumstance. But now that we have his example to remind us, we will probably be able conquer our fears should we find ourselves in a similar situation.
So far, no medical treatment has proven to cure Cancer.
No but at this point medical intervention probably offers a better prognosis than a herbal / spiritual route after diagnosis.
The medical route would definitely seem the better and more pragmatic choice when the diagnosis was an early stage and operable variety of a normally much more deadly one.
Don't be so hard with him. He's only human. Remarkable yes, but still human subject to making mistakes just like everyone else.
What would Steve have done / said?
Bull. Not when you have kids, loved ones, a corporation and millions of fans out there. It probably was his arrogant self serving self assurance - which was an instrumental part of his driving force and which made him great - that also prevented him from taking sensible advice and instead only listen to himself. Stupidly. Sadly. Not to pass judgement but to call his survival 'the desire of others' is ridiculous.
I would stop at kids and loved ones. All the rest are immaterial in this discussion.
Alternative medicines can be beneficial in some cases. But when Cancer is involved, bring on the surgery, drugs, and radiation.
There's a word for alternative medicine that works. It's called medicine.
If you have any disease, please trust real doctors with real medical qualifications. Alternative medicine has left us with Apple minus Steve Jobs and wrong-sounding muppets.
At least he wasnt in the UK and so didnt have to put up with our lousy NHS (No Help Service) with thier arrogant rude and intimidating doctors, (just what you need whe youre ill & scared) dirty hospitals and second hand surgical instruments from cheap manufacturers in India with blood on them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13894880
At least he wasnt in the UK and so didnt have to put up with our lousy NHS (No Help Service) with thier arrogant rude and intimidating doctors, (just what you need whe youre ill & scared) dirty hospitals and second hand surgical instruments from cheap manufacturers in India with blood on them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13894880
Ah, the grass is always greener. . .
What got him killed was more or less the same thing that made him great. It's the way of the world.
Exactly.
There's a word for alternative medicine that works. It's called medicine.
If you have any disease, please trust real doctors with real medical qualifications. Alternative medicine has left us with Apple minus Steve Jobs and wrong-sounding muppets.
Alternative medicine is becoming intricately added to most major US Medical University Schools.
Please be careful in defining the term, ``alternative medicine,'' as that includes ares of Acupuncture, physical massage therapies, dieting and much more.
Sorry, but bombarding the body with heavy doses of radiation, or target specific isotopes is not the solution.
I've had 9 members in my family with 9 different types of cancer. They've all died within 18 months after surgery and radiation.
Moreover, Jobs was a very holistic person who embraced alternative forms of medicine that for something less serious may have been a plausible form of treatment. On top of all that you typically have to make decisions relatively quickly all while processing life shattering news.
It is quite easy to judge something from an outside perspective after the fact. Making these decisions, however, is an entirely different matter. From all I read Jobs was lucky to get the years he did, and even if he could have received more years, the odds of it being very many more was low.
Such a smart man with so much going for him and still he thought in a stupid (and selfish) manner. One might argue that it is not selfish thinking but it is. One needs to think about how their life touches everyone else in their life when making a decision about how to go about treating a terminal illness.
Having said that, I know and understand his reasoning, and have felt the same way at one time, but never again. I was lucky.
At least he wasnt in the UK and so didnt have to put up with our lousy NHS (No Help Service) with thier arrogant rude and intimidating doctors, (just what you need whe youre ill & scared) dirty hospitals and second hand surgical instruments from cheap manufacturers in India with blood on them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13894880
I wouldn't attribute the decision-making on stupidity. I would attribute it more to fear, which is probably what all of us would feel if faced by the same circumstance. But now that we have his example to remind us, we will probably be able conquer our fears should we find ourselves in a similar situation.
I don't have the article in front of me, so I'm paraphrasing; but in the late 90's timeframe in an interview in one of the business mags (Fortune, I think), Jobs was asked if he had any regrets (they were talking about the whole getting fired from Apple, starting Next, coming back to Apple?all that stuff Jobs went through back then).
His response was something along the lines of: "Sure, there are a zillion things I wish I had done differently. But I think things you truly regret are the things you didn't do. You always regret not asking that girl to dance."
It's the hard things, the scary things, the things that you didn't have the courage to do at the time, that you later regret. For all the man's creative and technical genius, he was just a man.
It is impossible to make judgements about Jobs without understanding what the experts had to say (which nobody will ever know because his medical records will be sealed forever) and how they said it. Even if Jobs regrets his choices, he was doing so in hindsight. It doesn't mean the choices he made were incorrect.
Bull. Not when you have kids, loved ones, a corporation and millions of fans out there. It probably was his arrogant self serving self assurance - which was an instrumental part of his driving force and which made him great - that also prevented him from taking sensible advice and instead only listen to himself. Stupidly. Sadly. Not to pass judgement but to call his survival 'the desire of others' is ridiculous.