I love all these sorry grapes comments about how updates aren't a big deal now that Android has proven yet again to be an incoherent platform. Who cares about adding new features, increasing the performance, or adding considerable life to your device?¡ Which are then followed up with comments about rooting the device and looking for 3rd-party updates are no big deal for the average user. I'm sure if they can't figure it out those users shouldn't own smartphones anyway¡
The differences between iPhone and Android are not earth shattering enough to declare one camp better than other. This debate is as stupid as the days when zealous PC Vs Mac people would rip each other apart. Or Atari Vs Amiga for that matter.
Apple is a closed architecture and close business model. Android is an open architecture and open business model.
Whatever problems are inherit to closed systems and models will be prevalent in iPhone. Whatever problems are inherit to open systems and models will be prevalent in Android.
There are people who prefer being part of a closed community... thus they tend to gravitate toward iPhone. And there are people who prefer to being part of the open community experiment... this they then to gravitate toward Android.
I have used computers and operating systems going all the way back to the TRS-80 days (going through way too many to list here). I have used both iPhone and Android (Mac OS X Vs Linux - Both are ripped flavors of Unix).
Apple, as a company, has always had decent customer support... that reflects itself in the premium pricing for the products. Apple has always been a closed highly restricted and controlled company... except for the disastrous days when they tried to license the Mac and the days of the Apple II clones (oranges anyone?). Because of this they control product development cycles and can keep the pace of innovation and product release in control. There is good and bad in this model.
Other platforms have attempted the open model and yes there is good and bad in that as well.
Now, I do like Apple's implementation of unix... called Mac OS X. The UI is intuitive and works well. However, of all the Macs I have ever owned and use (again, going all the way back to the Mac Classic running System 6). I do not prefer Apple products for the very reason that I am not a closed modeled type of person. And I especially do not like the direction Apple has taken as a company in the last decade. But that is a whole other issue.
In regards to the iPhone Vs Android... the iPhone will always receive timely updates providing Apple is always profitable (which history shows us is definitely not always the case with Apple) and can afford to support legacy products (again which history shows us is not always the case with Apple) simply because they control the entire product production and distribution and support systems. Closed systems are easy to control and support.
Android is the complete opposite approach to this and is a very open business model. Open business model do have phenomenal success but come with the disadvantages of less than satisfactory support quite often. it really depends upon which company the support is coming from, etc. The reason open models experience great success often is due to the massive contribution from having many players in the development and business of the products. Thus is development cycles between version is significantly shorter than with a close system such as the one Apple uses.
So, yes, obviously Android is going to suffer from serious lack of updates. That is abundantly clear in the Android world. Will it stop me and million and million of people like me from buying and using Android... not at all. Android offers much in the way of customization, flexibility and evolution that simply suffers under a closed model like the iPhone. That is not to say that iPhone are not innovative... they certainly are. Just not in the way I appreciate and that appeals to me as a user.
The main culprit here is the wireless carriers are not motivated to produce updates for older customized products and instead see it in their interest to push out newer products. Ok, that sucks, but that is fine. I can simply root my phone and install an update myself. In fact I can install any available system/firmware that I can find on the internet... and that is what appeals to me as a customer... massive customization and availability.
I suspect though over time, likely too late for current Android models though, that Google will setup licensing requirements and rules for updates to be enforced on carriers or something to that nature. The end result being that Android, over time and generations of products, will become updated more often.
The hardware evolution in Android is phenomenal. Each generation of device is incorporating better processors and hardware configurations. So, that one generation of Android device is very different from the previous generation. That excites me as a customer to see that kind of device evolution growing at that sort of speed.
Granted iPhones also incorporate good evolution as well. But no where near the amount of product development and evolution that is occurring in the open model world of Android. The trade off is the iPhone you buy today will be more useful for a longer period of time as Apple strictly control the speed of product development.
So, who cares? If you want your hand held by Apple and want to buy a premium priced product that does not really include premium hardware but does include premium support get an iPhone. If you want a radically evolving community with loads of contribution but sketchy support get an Android.
Either way you are going to be happy and pissed off. There is no perfect product and no perfect business model. Just get what you like and leave the rest in peace already.
Apple is a closed architecture and close business model. Android is an open architecture and open business model.
Aw, man. I was all psyched for this to be a great post with a bunch of wonderful points.
I stopped reading here. That's an abject lie.
Quote:
providing Apple is always profitable (which history shows us is definitely not always the case with Apple)
"History" before 1996 is completely meaningless. Apple was a different company then.
Quote:
The main culprit here is the wireless carriers are not motivated to produce updates for older customized products and instead see it in their interest to push out newer products.
The difference between today and every single phone before 2007 is that this doesn't matter anymore at all. The carriers aren't in charge. They have absolutely no say. The manufacturer does. Apple paved the way for that. Screw the telecoms. If your phone's software company doesn't give you updates, you can't blame the telecoms.
Quote:
If you want your hand held by Apple and want to buy a premium priced product that does not really include premium hardware but does include premium support get an iPhone.
Problem is, that "premium hardware" is completely meaningless when the software on it is trash and runs slower than Apple's "not premium hardware".
You make some good points but I, however, do not agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Aw, man. I was all psyched for this to be a great post with a bunch of wonderful points.
I stopped reading here. That's an abject lie.
Apple is indeed a closed business model. And yes, you could argue Google being similar. But in the case of Android it is nowhere as close as Apple. In contrast and comparison to iPhone, Android as far more open.
"History" before 1996 is completely meaningless. Apple was a different company then.
History prior to 1996 of Apple is not meaningless. You are about to right smack back into the history with the death of Steve Jobs. So, in fact the history of Apple is more telling that one might want to admit. Apple has not been a phenomenal success in terms of business, not at least until the recent product create of the last ten years. It has a bad habit of starting a success and then self-imploding on it's own arrogance and refusal to loosen up. This is the Apple legacy and it will continue to be the Apple legacy. Go pre-iPod and you were looking at $23 a share in price... why? Because the Mac and OS X was not the big of a deal and that was the core business of Apple. Apple is no longer a computer company and has moved away from their core business but still carries over the same restrictive serious closed way of operating. If Apple does not continue to out innovate the rest of the market, which is an impossibility for any company over the long term including Apple if you review their history, they will find them back in the Newton days. Simply put, Apple creates great products... but they have been complete sh$t at business models, which a few rare moments in their history. And they have a nasty history of squandering those rare moments. Jobs came back to rescue Apple after leaving before. He is permanently gone now. if Apple slips again, and they likely will given their history, there is no recalling Jobs this time. No one other than the two steves have the passion for that company. The rest are all board directors and business people. Every time Apple landed under control of business people it wallowed in obscurity barely a functioning company. When the iPhone dries up what next? They better come up with something soon because their core computer business isn't there to support the stock price. Maybe Apple TV will rescue them. Anyway, this is the risk with close business models. The strategist of success is dead.
The difference between today and every single phone before 2007 is that this doesn't matter anymore at all. The carriers aren't in charge. They have absolutely no say. The manufacturer does. Apple paved the way for that. Screw the telecoms. If your phone's software company doesn't give you updates, you can't blame the telecoms.
Is this a point that really needs debate? If Samsung for example were responsible for the updates of their phones, and not AT&T or Verizon (even though they have to modify the updates to suit their customizations and etc). Who cares? I'm not here to debate this point. I agreed already that iPhone gets regular updates and Androids do not. That is the nature of the beast.
Problem is, that "premium hardware" is completely meaningless when the software on it is trash and runs slower than Apple's "not premium hardware".
Hardware and Software are a couple. The new hardware that Android phones receive generation after generation is not meaningless as the updates can be made on rooted phones to take advantage of the hardware. And to state that Android OS is trash is the comment from a zealous person. But I find it impossible to extend the capabilities of a piece of limited hardware very far through a software only solution. Android is flooded with premium hardware... that part of the equation is in place. So, you want to argue the merits of the OS (the software issues). Ok, well, like I said, much easier to advance the software sitting on top of premium hardware. Given enough time I think you find your argument to be pretty meaningless... especially with the release of 4.0.
Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by trash since you did not spec out anything meaningful to discuss. But all my droids flawlessly handle flash content and all web content. I have over 5 web browsers installed on my most recent Droid. I have Iris and three other SIRI clones installed that work great. I have my phone rooted and running in the manner I dictated. I have full access to the entire file system of my phone. I have my phone connected as a client to my wireless network workgroup. I have my computer at home remotely controlled via VNC through my Android. I have full HD video capability with no delays, flickers or pauses or whatever. I have a choice of multiple App stores, music players, multimedia apps. I have several programming languages installed on my phone. I have plenty of VOIP (with video) apps that work fine. I have apps to monitor and control wifi traffic, celluar traffic, OS operations, temperature controls, sensor calibration and functionality, GPS calibration and functionality, Gmail, Maps, Voice command, voice search, text to speech, customized lock screen, boot up screens, home screens, folders on my desktop, unlimited ways to organize my home screen (desktop), I can load up alternative mods/OSs/Customizations, themes, icons, sounds, animations, animated home screens, animated lock screens, I can multitask while in a call, I can surf the net while in a call, I can text while in a call, I can run as many apps simultaneously as I need (while in a call), I can control all background apps, which load, which do not load, I can totally wipe the entire phone and replace it with any number of alternative OS's available out then if I choose to. I can control the file structure if I really wanted to. I set permissions on the file structure items (folders, files, etc), I can FTP, HTTP, HTTPS, SAMBA, SSH, whatever. I can manage certificates, I can so almost anything I choose to do. So, what is the problem?
The only problem is I don't receive period updates on the OS like iPhone does. So what? If I was a lame person who didn't use my phone like a computer that might concern me a lot. But it is easy enough to install Froyo, Gingerbread or Ice Cream sandwich on my own.
I understand for the average consumer that might be a bit daunting. And that is perfectly understandable... I do not debate that issue at all. And in that case I suggest they go with iPhone. But for openness, hardware capabilities and customization I suggest Android. What's the problem with that?
Like I said, I do not care what people choose. To each their own and whatever makes them happy. I'm just not happy with iPhone and that seems to really piss off a lot of people for some reason. I'm not pissed off at my iPhone buddies... instead I just find ways to make my Android work with their iPhones.
Like I said in my original post... Too many zealots. Get what you like and leave the rest of the world alone to get what they like. There is nothing wrong with iPhone and nothing wrong with Android. They both have pluses and minuses... just not the same pluses and minuses and that is a very good thing - it is called choice.
i had a htc droid eris. Stuck at 2.1 with only using internal memory for apps.
oh and Angry birds was so choppy on that device. I have an older ipod touch that played angry birds so smoothly.
Lol yea...Android needs to either fork itself for low end/high end devices or drop the low end market altogether and leave OEMs to create their own OSes for such.
The low and possibly even midrange market is destroying Android.
It was launched just before the iPad in an attempt to jump on the PR bandwagon of "look what we can do", and Google thought that their PR power would get them to the acres of media that Apple get.
It didn't get much press coverage, and simply putting the name "Google" on it, did not bring in the sales.
Google even promoted it as a new way of buying a phone (eg outside the network) when companies around the world have been doing that for over 10 years!
They spun it as a developer/techie phone when their sales were discovered as being less than piss poor.
The Nexus One phone was built to compete with the iPad before the iPad was released?
The differences between iPhone and Android are not earth shattering enough to declare one camp better than other. This debate is as stupid as the days when zealous PC Vs Mac people would rip each other apart. Or Atari Vs Amiga for that matter.
Apple is a closed architecture and close business model. Android is an open architecture and open business model.
Whatever problems are inherit to closed systems and models will be prevalent in iPhone. Whatever problems are inherit to open systems and models will be prevalent in Android.
There are people who prefer being part of a closed community... thus they tend to gravitate toward iPhone. And there are people who prefer to being part of the open community experiment... this they then to gravitate toward Android.
I have used computers and operating systems going all the way back to the TRS-80 days (going through way too many to list here). I have used both iPhone and Android (Mac OS X Vs Linux - Both are ripped flavors of Unix).
Apple, as a company, has always had decent customer support... that reflects itself in the premium pricing for the products. Apple has always been a closed highly restricted and controlled company... except for the disastrous days when they tried to license the Mac and the days of the Apple II clones (oranges anyone?). Because of this they control product development cycles and can keep the pace of innovation and product release in control. There is good and bad in this model.
Other platforms have attempted the open model and yes there is good and bad in that as well.
Now, I do like Apple's implementation of unix... called Mac OS X. The UI is intuitive and works well. However, of all the Macs I have ever owned and use (again, going all the way back to the Mac Classic running System 6). I do not prefer Apple products for the very reason that I am not a closed modeled type of person. And I especially do not like the direction Apple has taken as a company in the last decade. But that is a whole other issue.
In regards to the iPhone Vs Android... the iPhone will always receive timely updates providing Apple is always profitable (which history shows us is definitely not always the case with Apple) and can afford to support legacy products (again which history shows us is not always the case with Apple) simply because they control the entire product production and distribution and support systems. Closed systems are easy to control and support.
Android is the complete opposite approach to this and is a very open business model. Open business model do have phenomenal success but come with the disadvantages of less than satisfactory support quite often. it really depends upon which company the support is coming from, etc. The reason open models experience great success often is due to the massive contribution from having many players in the development and business of the products. Thus is development cycles between version is significantly shorter than with a close system such as the one Apple uses.
So, yes, obviously Android is going to suffer from serious lack of updates. That is abundantly clear in the Android world. Will it stop me and million and million of people like me from buying and using Android... not at all. Android offers much in the way of customization, flexibility and evolution that simply suffers under a closed model like the iPhone. That is not to say that iPhone are not innovative... they certainly are. Just not in the way I appreciate and that appeals to me as a user.
The main culprit here is the wireless carriers are not motivated to produce updates for older customized products and instead see it in their interest to push out newer products. Ok, that sucks, but that is fine. I can simply root my phone and install an update myself. In fact I can install any available system/firmware that I can find on the internet... and that is what appeals to me as a customer... massive customization and availability.
I suspect though over time, likely too late for current Android models though, that Google will setup licensing requirements and rules for updates to be enforced on carriers or something to that nature. The end result being that Android, over time and generations of products, will become updated more often.
The hardware evolution in Android is phenomenal. Each generation of device is incorporating better processors and hardware configurations. So, that one generation of Android device is very different from the previous generation. That excites me as a customer to see that kind of device evolution growing at that sort of speed.
Granted iPhones also incorporate good evolution as well. But no where near the amount of product development and evolution that is occurring in the open model world of Android. The trade off is the iPhone you buy today will be more useful for a longer period of time as Apple strictly control the speed of product development.
So, who cares? If you want your hand held by Apple and want to buy a premium priced product that does not really include premium hardware but does include premium support get an iPhone. If you want a radically evolving community with loads of contribution but sketchy support get an Android.
Either way you are going to be happy and pissed off. There is no perfect product and no perfect business model. Just get what you like and leave the rest in peace already.
I wuv you. You're one of the best posters her. Most intelligent discussin thus far....
Android IS an open business model. When they tried going closed with Honeycomb Tablets, it kind of failed. The irony is, ALL the tablets looked the same. The hardware, while largely diffierent was the only factor different. I think the tablets are more of a mess because why get one model when they ALL look the same.
Now, I do like Apple's implementation of unix... called Mac OS X. The UI is intuitive and works well. However, of all the Macs I have ever owned and use (again, going all the way back to the Mac Classic running System 6). I do not prefer Apple products for the very reason that I am not a closed modeled type of person. And I especially do not like the direction Apple has taken as a company in the last decade. But that is a whole other issue.
I see what you are saying, but honestly this is a biased viewed wrapped in a thinly veiled unbiased disguise.
Quote:
Android is the complete opposite approach to this and is a very open business model. Open business model do have phenomenal success but come with the disadvantages of less than satisfactory support quite often. it really depends upon which company the support is coming from, etc. The reason open models experience great success often is due to the massive contribution from having many players in the development and business of the products. Thus is development cycles between version is significantly shorter than with a close system such as the one Apple uses.
I think you are overly downplaying the importance of customer support. You are looking at this from your perspective and feeling that you don't need much support. This is not true for 90% of the people on the market.
The far majority of the people do not care about open or closed business models. They just want to buy a device and for it to work. If it does not work they want support. This is a serious problem for Android.
Quote:
So, yes, obviously Android is going to suffer from serious lack of updates. That is abundantly clear in the Android world. Will it stop me and million and million of people like me from buying and using Android... not at all. Android offers much in the way of customization, flexibility and evolution that simply suffers under a closed model like the iPhone. That is not to say that iPhone are not innovative... they certainly are. Just not in the way I appreciate and that appeals to me as a user.
Where I agree is that a large portion of people would never upgrade the OS on their phones. Its not that important for them. On the same hand the large portion of people do not care that much about the customization that Android offers.
Quote:
I suspect though over time, likely too late for current Android models though, that Google will setup licensing requirements and rules for updates to be enforced on carriers or something to that nature. The end result being that Android, over time and generations of products, will become updated more often.
Google announced this initiative months ago and so far does not seem to be helping very much. In contrast over that time there have been major projects that fork Android off of the main development path into their own projects.
Quote:
The hardware evolution in Android is phenomenal. Each generation of device is incorporating better processors and hardware configurations. So, that one generation of Android device is very different from the previous generation. That excites me as a customer to see that kind of device evolution growing at that sort of speed.
I see it more as a throw everything against the wall and see what sticks.
Quote:
Granted iPhones also incorporate good evolution as well. But no where near the amount of product development and evolution that is occurring in the open model world of Android. The trade off is the iPhone you buy today will be more useful for a longer period of time as Apple strictly control the speed of product development.
Apple isn't playing the incremental game to nowhere. Its the same as the gigahertz race or the megapixel race. Apple has never participated in those types of things.
Today we have an Android phone with a 1Ghz processor and 4.2" screen. Two weeks later an Android phone with 1.2GHz processor and a 4.6" screen. And it keeps going, where is it going?
Quote:
So, who cares? If you want your hand held by Apple and want to buy a premium priced product that does not really include premium hardware but does include premium support get an iPhone. If you want a radically evolving community with loads of contribution but sketchy support get an Android.
You believe that simply because a product with the highest spec numbers makes it the premium phone?
Is that what determines the best phone? Didn't already go through this in the PC industry?
Apple isn't as "closed" as some people want to make out, conversely Android isn't as "open" as some people want to make out.
This stems from the terms being used as hyperbolic, hypocritical marketing.
Noticed this with my 4S. Yes, I hate you can customize to your liking, but there LARGELY isn't as much resriction as I thought there would be....especially considering you get higher quality apps for the most part.
I was an Apple customer way back in the Apple II days, got burned on the transition to the Mac, tried Apple again in the PPC days, and got burned on the transition to Intel.
Both times Apple failed to offer (promised or assumed) backward compatibility.
It's interesting to see Apple as the champion of backward compatibility now!
Of course the original iPhone is only 4 years old. But, then again, 4 smartphone years is roughly 12 pc years. At that scale, even Microsoft isn't really trying to make things work on older hardware.
....especially considering you get higher quality apps for the most part.
The number of people I have seen saying they are going to buy an iPad specifically to be able to buy the Moog Animoog app is ridiculous. My wife has an iPad so I snagged it and went ahead and bought it on my iTunes account, even tho I won't have an iPad till the iPad 3 next spring. Buy it now for $1 before it goes up to $30 next month
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor
I was an Apple customer way back in the Apple II days, got burned on the transition to the Mac, tried Apple again in the PPC days, and got burned on the transition to Intel.
Both times Apple failed to offer (promised or assumed) backward compatibility.
Uhm...when Apple transitioned from OS9 to OS X they had the Classic environment. When they transitioned to Intel they still had code for the PPC and added Rosetta as well. They supported the PPC for 6 years after the 2005 announcement. I call that pretty damn good. As far ass the Apple II to Mac, yeah you were screwed on that one, altho I don't recall any of their promotional info mentioning compatibility and they kept the Apple II line going concurrent w/the Mac. Until the II LC came out in '91, then you could buy the Apple IIe card for the Mac.
Comments
The citation is the SOURCE LINK for the article on which this entire thread is based.
http://theunderstatement.com/post/11...ory-of-support
Just ignore him. He's a troll.
deleted
I love all these sorry grapes comments about how updates aren't a big deal now that Android has proven yet again to be an incoherent platform. Who cares about adding new features, increasing the performance, or adding considerable life to your device?¡ Which are then followed up with comments about rooting the device and looking for 3rd-party updates are no big deal for the average user. I'm sure if they can't figure it out those users shouldn't own smartphones anyway¡
This made me lol.
Apple is a closed architecture and close business model. Android is an open architecture and open business model.
Whatever problems are inherit to closed systems and models will be prevalent in iPhone. Whatever problems are inherit to open systems and models will be prevalent in Android.
There are people who prefer being part of a closed community... thus they tend to gravitate toward iPhone. And there are people who prefer to being part of the open community experiment... this they then to gravitate toward Android.
I have used computers and operating systems going all the way back to the TRS-80 days (going through way too many to list here). I have used both iPhone and Android (Mac OS X Vs Linux - Both are ripped flavors of Unix).
Apple, as a company, has always had decent customer support... that reflects itself in the premium pricing for the products. Apple has always been a closed highly restricted and controlled company... except for the disastrous days when they tried to license the Mac and the days of the Apple II clones (oranges anyone?). Because of this they control product development cycles and can keep the pace of innovation and product release in control. There is good and bad in this model.
Other platforms have attempted the open model and yes there is good and bad in that as well.
Now, I do like Apple's implementation of unix... called Mac OS X. The UI is intuitive and works well. However, of all the Macs I have ever owned and use (again, going all the way back to the Mac Classic running System 6). I do not prefer Apple products for the very reason that I am not a closed modeled type of person. And I especially do not like the direction Apple has taken as a company in the last decade. But that is a whole other issue.
In regards to the iPhone Vs Android... the iPhone will always receive timely updates providing Apple is always profitable (which history shows us is definitely not always the case with Apple) and can afford to support legacy products (again which history shows us is not always the case with Apple) simply because they control the entire product production and distribution and support systems. Closed systems are easy to control and support.
Android is the complete opposite approach to this and is a very open business model. Open business model do have phenomenal success but come with the disadvantages of less than satisfactory support quite often. it really depends upon which company the support is coming from, etc. The reason open models experience great success often is due to the massive contribution from having many players in the development and business of the products. Thus is development cycles between version is significantly shorter than with a close system such as the one Apple uses.
So, yes, obviously Android is going to suffer from serious lack of updates. That is abundantly clear in the Android world. Will it stop me and million and million of people like me from buying and using Android... not at all. Android offers much in the way of customization, flexibility and evolution that simply suffers under a closed model like the iPhone. That is not to say that iPhone are not innovative... they certainly are. Just not in the way I appreciate and that appeals to me as a user.
The main culprit here is the wireless carriers are not motivated to produce updates for older customized products and instead see it in their interest to push out newer products. Ok, that sucks, but that is fine. I can simply root my phone and install an update myself. In fact I can install any available system/firmware that I can find on the internet... and that is what appeals to me as a customer... massive customization and availability.
I suspect though over time, likely too late for current Android models though, that Google will setup licensing requirements and rules for updates to be enforced on carriers or something to that nature. The end result being that Android, over time and generations of products, will become updated more often.
The hardware evolution in Android is phenomenal. Each generation of device is incorporating better processors and hardware configurations. So, that one generation of Android device is very different from the previous generation. That excites me as a customer to see that kind of device evolution growing at that sort of speed.
Granted iPhones also incorporate good evolution as well. But no where near the amount of product development and evolution that is occurring in the open model world of Android. The trade off is the iPhone you buy today will be more useful for a longer period of time as Apple strictly control the speed of product development.
So, who cares? If you want your hand held by Apple and want to buy a premium priced product that does not really include premium hardware but does include premium support get an iPhone. If you want a radically evolving community with loads of contribution but sketchy support get an Android.
Either way you are going to be happy and pissed off. There is no perfect product and no perfect business model. Just get what you like and leave the rest in peace already.
Apple is a closed architecture and close business model. Android is an open architecture and open business model.
Aw, man. I was all psyched for this to be a great post with a bunch of wonderful points.
I stopped reading here. That's an abject lie.
providing Apple is always profitable (which history shows us is definitely not always the case with Apple)
"History" before 1996 is completely meaningless. Apple was a different company then.
The main culprit here is the wireless carriers are not motivated to produce updates for older customized products and instead see it in their interest to push out newer products.
The difference between today and every single phone before 2007 is that this doesn't matter anymore at all. The carriers aren't in charge. They have absolutely no say. The manufacturer does. Apple paved the way for that. Screw the telecoms. If your phone's software company doesn't give you updates, you can't blame the telecoms.
If you want your hand held by Apple and want to buy a premium priced product that does not really include premium hardware but does include premium support get an iPhone.
Problem is, that "premium hardware" is completely meaningless when the software on it is trash and runs slower than Apple's "not premium hardware".
Aw, man. I was all psyched for this to be a great post with a bunch of wonderful points.
I stopped reading here. That's an abject lie.
Apple is indeed a closed business model. And yes, you could argue Google being similar. But in the case of Android it is nowhere as close as Apple. In contrast and comparison to iPhone, Android as far more open.
"History" before 1996 is completely meaningless. Apple was a different company then.
History prior to 1996 of Apple is not meaningless. You are about to right smack back into the history with the death of Steve Jobs. So, in fact the history of Apple is more telling that one might want to admit. Apple has not been a phenomenal success in terms of business, not at least until the recent product create of the last ten years. It has a bad habit of starting a success and then self-imploding on it's own arrogance and refusal to loosen up. This is the Apple legacy and it will continue to be the Apple legacy. Go pre-iPod and you were looking at $23 a share in price... why? Because the Mac and OS X was not the big of a deal and that was the core business of Apple. Apple is no longer a computer company and has moved away from their core business but still carries over the same restrictive serious closed way of operating. If Apple does not continue to out innovate the rest of the market, which is an impossibility for any company over the long term including Apple if you review their history, they will find them back in the Newton days. Simply put, Apple creates great products... but they have been complete sh$t at business models, which a few rare moments in their history. And they have a nasty history of squandering those rare moments. Jobs came back to rescue Apple after leaving before. He is permanently gone now. if Apple slips again, and they likely will given their history, there is no recalling Jobs this time. No one other than the two steves have the passion for that company. The rest are all board directors and business people. Every time Apple landed under control of business people it wallowed in obscurity barely a functioning company. When the iPhone dries up what next? They better come up with something soon because their core computer business isn't there to support the stock price. Maybe Apple TV will rescue them. Anyway, this is the risk with close business models. The strategist of success is dead.
The difference between today and every single phone before 2007 is that this doesn't matter anymore at all. The carriers aren't in charge. They have absolutely no say. The manufacturer does. Apple paved the way for that. Screw the telecoms. If your phone's software company doesn't give you updates, you can't blame the telecoms.
Is this a point that really needs debate? If Samsung for example were responsible for the updates of their phones, and not AT&T or Verizon (even though they have to modify the updates to suit their customizations and etc). Who cares? I'm not here to debate this point. I agreed already that iPhone gets regular updates and Androids do not. That is the nature of the beast.
Problem is, that "premium hardware" is completely meaningless when the software on it is trash and runs slower than Apple's "not premium hardware".
Hardware and Software are a couple. The new hardware that Android phones receive generation after generation is not meaningless as the updates can be made on rooted phones to take advantage of the hardware. And to state that Android OS is trash is the comment from a zealous person. But I find it impossible to extend the capabilities of a piece of limited hardware very far through a software only solution. Android is flooded with premium hardware... that part of the equation is in place. So, you want to argue the merits of the OS (the software issues). Ok, well, like I said, much easier to advance the software sitting on top of premium hardware. Given enough time I think you find your argument to be pretty meaningless... especially with the release of 4.0.
Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by trash since you did not spec out anything meaningful to discuss. But all my droids flawlessly handle flash content and all web content. I have over 5 web browsers installed on my most recent Droid. I have Iris and three other SIRI clones installed that work great. I have my phone rooted and running in the manner I dictated. I have full access to the entire file system of my phone. I have my phone connected as a client to my wireless network workgroup. I have my computer at home remotely controlled via VNC through my Android. I have full HD video capability with no delays, flickers or pauses or whatever. I have a choice of multiple App stores, music players, multimedia apps. I have several programming languages installed on my phone. I have plenty of VOIP (with video) apps that work fine. I have apps to monitor and control wifi traffic, celluar traffic, OS operations, temperature controls, sensor calibration and functionality, GPS calibration and functionality, Gmail, Maps, Voice command, voice search, text to speech, customized lock screen, boot up screens, home screens, folders on my desktop, unlimited ways to organize my home screen (desktop), I can load up alternative mods/OSs/Customizations, themes, icons, sounds, animations, animated home screens, animated lock screens, I can multitask while in a call, I can surf the net while in a call, I can text while in a call, I can run as many apps simultaneously as I need (while in a call), I can control all background apps, which load, which do not load, I can totally wipe the entire phone and replace it with any number of alternative OS's available out then if I choose to. I can control the file structure if I really wanted to. I set permissions on the file structure items (folders, files, etc), I can FTP, HTTP, HTTPS, SAMBA, SSH, whatever. I can manage certificates, I can so almost anything I choose to do. So, what is the problem?
The only problem is I don't receive period updates on the OS like iPhone does. So what? If I was a lame person who didn't use my phone like a computer that might concern me a lot. But it is easy enough to install Froyo, Gingerbread or Ice Cream sandwich on my own.
I understand for the average consumer that might be a bit daunting. And that is perfectly understandable... I do not debate that issue at all. And in that case I suggest they go with iPhone. But for openness, hardware capabilities and customization I suggest Android. What's the problem with that?
Like I said, I do not care what people choose. To each their own and whatever makes them happy. I'm just not happy with iPhone and that seems to really piss off a lot of people for some reason. I'm not pissed off at my iPhone buddies... instead I just find ways to make my Android work with their iPhones.
Like I said in my original post... Too many zealots. Get what you like and leave the rest of the world alone to get what they like. There is nothing wrong with iPhone and nothing wrong with Android. They both have pluses and minuses... just not the same pluses and minuses and that is a very good thing - it is called choice.
Well, the stats do not show that to be the case now. And still many in the Apple space continue this ridiculous debate.
Android is very healthy and very much alive and growing very fast. Teething issues and growing pains? you bet... and that is a good thing.
i had a htc droid eris. Stuck at 2.1 with only using internal memory for apps.
oh and Angry birds was so choppy on that device. I have an older ipod touch that played angry birds so smoothly.
Lol yea...Android needs to either fork itself for low end/high end devices or drop the low end market altogether and leave OEMs to create their own OSes for such.
The low and possibly even midrange market is destroying Android.
History rewrite warning.
It was launched just before the iPad in an attempt to jump on the PR bandwagon of "look what we can do", and Google thought that their PR power would get them to the acres of media that Apple get.
It didn't get much press coverage, and simply putting the name "Google" on it, did not bring in the sales.
Google even promoted it as a new way of buying a phone (eg outside the network) when companies around the world have been doing that for over 10 years!
They spun it as a developer/techie phone when their sales were discovered as being less than piss poor.
The Nexus One phone was built to compete with the iPad before the iPad was released?
who's rewriting history here?
The differences between iPhone and Android are not earth shattering enough to declare one camp better than other. This debate is as stupid as the days when zealous PC Vs Mac people would rip each other apart. Or Atari Vs Amiga for that matter.
Apple is a closed architecture and close business model. Android is an open architecture and open business model.
Whatever problems are inherit to closed systems and models will be prevalent in iPhone. Whatever problems are inherit to open systems and models will be prevalent in Android.
There are people who prefer being part of a closed community... thus they tend to gravitate toward iPhone. And there are people who prefer to being part of the open community experiment... this they then to gravitate toward Android.
I have used computers and operating systems going all the way back to the TRS-80 days (going through way too many to list here). I have used both iPhone and Android (Mac OS X Vs Linux - Both are ripped flavors of Unix).
Apple, as a company, has always had decent customer support... that reflects itself in the premium pricing for the products. Apple has always been a closed highly restricted and controlled company... except for the disastrous days when they tried to license the Mac and the days of the Apple II clones (oranges anyone?). Because of this they control product development cycles and can keep the pace of innovation and product release in control. There is good and bad in this model.
Other platforms have attempted the open model and yes there is good and bad in that as well.
Now, I do like Apple's implementation of unix... called Mac OS X. The UI is intuitive and works well. However, of all the Macs I have ever owned and use (again, going all the way back to the Mac Classic running System 6). I do not prefer Apple products for the very reason that I am not a closed modeled type of person. And I especially do not like the direction Apple has taken as a company in the last decade. But that is a whole other issue.
In regards to the iPhone Vs Android... the iPhone will always receive timely updates providing Apple is always profitable (which history shows us is definitely not always the case with Apple) and can afford to support legacy products (again which history shows us is not always the case with Apple) simply because they control the entire product production and distribution and support systems. Closed systems are easy to control and support.
Android is the complete opposite approach to this and is a very open business model. Open business model do have phenomenal success but come with the disadvantages of less than satisfactory support quite often. it really depends upon which company the support is coming from, etc. The reason open models experience great success often is due to the massive contribution from having many players in the development and business of the products. Thus is development cycles between version is significantly shorter than with a close system such as the one Apple uses.
So, yes, obviously Android is going to suffer from serious lack of updates. That is abundantly clear in the Android world. Will it stop me and million and million of people like me from buying and using Android... not at all. Android offers much in the way of customization, flexibility and evolution that simply suffers under a closed model like the iPhone. That is not to say that iPhone are not innovative... they certainly are. Just not in the way I appreciate and that appeals to me as a user.
The main culprit here is the wireless carriers are not motivated to produce updates for older customized products and instead see it in their interest to push out newer products. Ok, that sucks, but that is fine. I can simply root my phone and install an update myself. In fact I can install any available system/firmware that I can find on the internet... and that is what appeals to me as a customer... massive customization and availability.
I suspect though over time, likely too late for current Android models though, that Google will setup licensing requirements and rules for updates to be enforced on carriers or something to that nature. The end result being that Android, over time and generations of products, will become updated more often.
The hardware evolution in Android is phenomenal. Each generation of device is incorporating better processors and hardware configurations. So, that one generation of Android device is very different from the previous generation. That excites me as a customer to see that kind of device evolution growing at that sort of speed.
Granted iPhones also incorporate good evolution as well. But no where near the amount of product development and evolution that is occurring in the open model world of Android. The trade off is the iPhone you buy today will be more useful for a longer period of time as Apple strictly control the speed of product development.
So, who cares? If you want your hand held by Apple and want to buy a premium priced product that does not really include premium hardware but does include premium support get an iPhone. If you want a radically evolving community with loads of contribution but sketchy support get an Android.
Either way you are going to be happy and pissed off. There is no perfect product and no perfect business model. Just get what you like and leave the rest in peace already.
I wuv you. You're one of the best posters her. Most intelligent discussin thus far....
Android IS an open business model. When they tried going closed with Honeycomb Tablets, it kind of failed. The irony is, ALL the tablets looked the same. The hardware, while largely diffierent was the only factor different. I think the tablets are more of a mess because why get one model when they ALL look the same.
Now, I do like Apple's implementation of unix... called Mac OS X. The UI is intuitive and works well. However, of all the Macs I have ever owned and use (again, going all the way back to the Mac Classic running System 6). I do not prefer Apple products for the very reason that I am not a closed modeled type of person. And I especially do not like the direction Apple has taken as a company in the last decade. But that is a whole other issue.
I see what you are saying, but honestly this is a biased viewed wrapped in a thinly veiled unbiased disguise.
Android is the complete opposite approach to this and is a very open business model. Open business model do have phenomenal success but come with the disadvantages of less than satisfactory support quite often. it really depends upon which company the support is coming from, etc. The reason open models experience great success often is due to the massive contribution from having many players in the development and business of the products. Thus is development cycles between version is significantly shorter than with a close system such as the one Apple uses.
I think you are overly downplaying the importance of customer support. You are looking at this from your perspective and feeling that you don't need much support. This is not true for 90% of the people on the market.
The far majority of the people do not care about open or closed business models. They just want to buy a device and for it to work. If it does not work they want support. This is a serious problem for Android.
So, yes, obviously Android is going to suffer from serious lack of updates. That is abundantly clear in the Android world. Will it stop me and million and million of people like me from buying and using Android... not at all. Android offers much in the way of customization, flexibility and evolution that simply suffers under a closed model like the iPhone. That is not to say that iPhone are not innovative... they certainly are. Just not in the way I appreciate and that appeals to me as a user.
Where I agree is that a large portion of people would never upgrade the OS on their phones. Its not that important for them. On the same hand the large portion of people do not care that much about the customization that Android offers.
I suspect though over time, likely too late for current Android models though, that Google will setup licensing requirements and rules for updates to be enforced on carriers or something to that nature. The end result being that Android, over time and generations of products, will become updated more often.
Google announced this initiative months ago and so far does not seem to be helping very much. In contrast over that time there have been major projects that fork Android off of the main development path into their own projects.
The hardware evolution in Android is phenomenal. Each generation of device is incorporating better processors and hardware configurations. So, that one generation of Android device is very different from the previous generation. That excites me as a customer to see that kind of device evolution growing at that sort of speed.
I see it more as a throw everything against the wall and see what sticks.
Granted iPhones also incorporate good evolution as well. But no where near the amount of product development and evolution that is occurring in the open model world of Android. The trade off is the iPhone you buy today will be more useful for a longer period of time as Apple strictly control the speed of product development.
Apple isn't playing the incremental game to nowhere. Its the same as the gigahertz race or the megapixel race. Apple has never participated in those types of things.
Today we have an Android phone with a 1Ghz processor and 4.2" screen. Two weeks later an Android phone with 1.2GHz processor and a 4.6" screen. And it keeps going, where is it going?
So, who cares? If you want your hand held by Apple and want to buy a premium priced product that does not really include premium hardware but does include premium support get an iPhone. If you want a radically evolving community with loads of contribution but sketchy support get an Android.
You believe that simply because a product with the highest spec numbers makes it the premium phone?
Is that what determines the best phone? Didn't already go through this in the PC industry?
Motorola, HTC, and Samsung so eagerly support Android because they have no other choice.
Android is very healthy and very much alive and growing very fast. Teething issues and growing pains? you bet... and that is a good thing.
Apple is a closed architecture and close business model. Android is an open architecture and open business model.
Apple isn't as "closed" as some people want to make out, conversely Android isn't as "open" as some people want to make out.
This stems from the terms being used as hyperbolic, hypocritical marketing.
In addition, wasn't it the Apple world that keeps harping on about how Android would be a failure and would get nowhere?
Well, the stats do not show that to be the case now. And still many in the Apple space continue this ridiculous debate.
Android is very healthy and very much alive and growing very fast. Teething issues and growing pains? you bet... and that is a good thing.
Motorola a loss, LG zero profits, SonyEricsson zero profits, Samsung, HTC some profit.
Meanwhile Apple is raking in 66% of ALL handset profits.
in the words of Jerry Maguire "SHOW ME THE MOO-OONEEEYYY!" because in this game that's what makes winners.
The low and possibly even midrange market is destroying Android.
No it isn't, that's where their "winning" marketshare is coming from.
Apple isn't as "closed" as some people want to make out, conversely Android isn't as "open" as some people want to make out.
This stems from the terms being used as hyperbolic, hypocritical marketing.
Noticed this with my 4S. Yes, I hate you can customize to your liking, but there LARGELY isn't as much resriction as I thought there would be....especially considering you get higher quality apps for the most part.
No it isn't, that's where their "winning" marketshare is coming from.
Context.
In terms of fragmentation.
Both times Apple failed to offer (promised or assumed) backward compatibility.
It's interesting to see Apple as the champion of backward compatibility now!
Of course the original iPhone is only 4 years old. But, then again, 4 smartphone years is roughly 12 pc years. At that scale, even Microsoft isn't really trying to make things work on older hardware.
We'll see.
The Nexus One phone was built to compete with the iPad before the iPad was released?
who's rewriting history here?
Actually he warned you he was, his first sentence was "history rewrite warning"
....especially considering you get higher quality apps for the most part.
The number of people I have seen saying they are going to buy an iPad specifically to be able to buy the Moog Animoog app is ridiculous. My wife has an iPad so I snagged it and went ahead and bought it on my iTunes account, even tho I won't have an iPad till the iPad 3 next spring. Buy it now for $1 before it goes up to $30 next month
I was an Apple customer way back in the Apple II days, got burned on the transition to the Mac, tried Apple again in the PPC days, and got burned on the transition to Intel.
Both times Apple failed to offer (promised or assumed) backward compatibility.
Uhm...when Apple transitioned from OS9 to OS X they had the Classic environment. When they transitioned to Intel they still had code for the PPC and added Rosetta as well. They supported the PPC for 6 years after the 2005 announcement. I call that pretty damn good. As far ass the Apple II to Mac, yeah you were screwed on that one, altho I don't recall any of their promotional info mentioning compatibility and they kept the Apple II line going concurrent w/the Mac. Until the II LC came out in '91, then you could buy the Apple IIe card for the Mac.