I've always bought physical disc when buying movies. I have 600 of them. A year ago I started buying from iTunes. I have 20 iTunes movies. I start buying iTunes because I didn't have to rip the movie to get a digital copy and it was easier to find some older classics on iTunes. I've stopped purchasing video content from iTunes because AppleID became a headache over multiple devices and formats.
I have ripped all 600 movies into non-DRM copies. Older iTunes' digital copies often only have stereo audio and poor quality. I can get better audio when I rip the disc. I will never buy any movie under UV because any DRM is not worth having, even iTunes fair-use, although it is the best I've seen so far. My beef with iTunes is their DRM content is tied to an AppleID and Apple won't let me merge the different IDs into one.
So I believe ripping a physical disc is way better because you get the video and audio quality of the disc. The only problem was the time it takes getting a large movie library ripped, but once it's done, adding new purchases are no big deal.
My point is any DRM, and especially UltraViolet, will never really work for the ardent digital movie owner. I'm sure much more music was sold at the iTMS after the store went DRM free than before. The companies need to trust their customers. Sure there will always be those who steal, but copy protection didn't work on DVDs when the studios tried to shove it down our throats and it's not going to work in digital world either.
What about the environmental cost in producing the hardware to store the movies, and the electricity required to power these digital download servers.
You're kidding, right? This is most certainly a fraction of the cost of the electricity required to manufacture, store, ship, and sell (physical shop front or warehouse for mail order purchase) a physical disk.
This is so fantastic. I didn't complain on Amazon, but I did complain in an email the day I got the Harry Potter part 2 disc that just released. And I got a prompt email from them offering me an iTunes redemption code. It never occurred to me that others would be as upset as I was. ...
sfoalex - where did you email? I sent an email to WB on the day I bought the combo pack as well, and haven't heard anything. Thanks!
So I believe ripping a physical disc is way better because you get the video and audio quality of the disc. The only problem was the time it takes getting a large movie library ripped, but once it's done, adding new purchases are no big deal.
My point is any DRM, and especially UltraViolet, will never really work for the ardent digital movie owner.
I agree ripping a physical disc is the best solution if you're able to do that. It's what I do.
That said, the idea of UltraViolet is the best solution if we are forced to have DRM.
In theory once you buy an UltraViolet movie you own a licence to that movie in perpetuity. From companies that support UltraViolet (which is basically everyone except Apple) you are then able to stream or download an offline copy of that movie.
The problem is that the implementation sucks at the moment. There is only one service that you can view your movie from and it seems like that application doesn't support downloading an offline copy.
The best outcome for Apple's customers (apart from no DRM at all) would actually be if Apple supported UltraViolet. Unfortunately at the moment Apple and the studios seem more focused on their own power struggle than the consumers.
I agree ripping a physical disc is the best solution if you're able to do that. It's what I do.
That said, the idea of UltraViolet is the best solution if we are forced to have DRM.
In theory once you buy an UltraViolet movie you own a licence to that movie in perpetuity. From companies that support UltraViolet (which is basically everyone except Apple) you are then able to stream or download an offline copy of that movie.
The problem is that the implementation sucks at the moment. There is only one service that you can view your movie from and it seems like that application doesn't support downloading an offline copy.
The best outcome for Apple's customers (apart from no DRM at all) would actually be if Apple supported UltraViolet. Unfortunately at the moment Apple and the studios seem more focused on their own power struggle than the consumers.
Maybe it's a power struggle. I don't want to play though. I have not found one DVD that I purchased that a ripping tool couldn't rip. I have several software tools to rip DVDs and if you know how to use them properly they can rip anything the Studios can get away with, even the 99 title copy protection trick is easily defeated if you know how. DRM, such as UltraViolet, is only meant to make an end-run around fair-use laws, not to defeat piracy. The piracy myth doesn't hold water anymore. As long as there is DRM, there will be a tool to defeat it. I buy all my software and entertainment content legally and why should I be denied easy access to it. To me that falls under mass punishment.
".... licence to that movie in perpetuity ..."
Is that like MS' Play-for-Sure? I have a basement full of gadgets and software content with propriety formats that have been abandoned.
"That said, the idea of UltraViolet is the best solution if we are forced to have DRM."
I think this has a fundamental flaw in achieving individual consumer rights. If you appease those who wish to control you, you will always be under control. It's much better to not to accept these terms in the first place.
Because the only way to get an HD movie with HD audio is via optical disk, and since sales of Blu-ray are continuing to increase, consumers must want them.
The sales of Blu Rays are going up for a three reasons
1. They have raised the price of a regular DVD significantly and lowered the price of a Blu Ray in an effort to get you to buy the blu ray
2. They have stopped giving us all the extras we used to get on dvd and are making them available only on blu ray format
3. They won't sell their HD versions on iTunes in a dumb effort to keep us from buying there
Well, I have 4 ultraviolet movies, both Harry Potters, Green Lantern, and Horrible Bosses.
The last one I needed a way to use some type of parental controls, hide the movie, or delete it from my flixster account. I have sent like 6 e-mails and they don't know how to remove it or there is nothing in the flixster collections pc software or flixster app to change anything once you added it to your account. I finally got them to allow me to redownload the digital copies and I opened up another account with a different e-mail so I could completely start over with this stuff. I am a tech guy and this has been frustrating but most folks will not put up with what I did.
My ipad kept getting low memory error messages when I tried playing Harry Potter DHpt2, so I e-mailed their tech support and I did get an itunes digital copy code.
I think the service is not ready for prime time.
I have used the WB DCM mobile app Warner provided when some of their movies had only a windows media digital copy code and no itunes. When I upgraded my iphone 3gs to a 4S and I resynced the app it now crashes which is probably due to a drm issue. I e-mailed tech support and get no response now. My guess is Warner has moved on from that and is only going to support ultraviolet.
I've been venting on forums and other media for years about how the media companies have made a mess of things with these multiple formats and DRM's. They've ruined BD for me because of all the loading time and new codecs my player has to download and what-nots. there needs to be one format for everyone to be able to play on any device. Not what we have now.
Furthermore, all this Handbrake talk is sort of pointless for Mac users now that most movies are on BD, and Apple does not support BD.
I'm one of those people that prefer physical media over Digital. and that's mainly for security, special features and commentaries. Hard drives fail. Server farms can fail...and then what do you have? Nothing. Granted with iTunes they store all your purchases for re-download, that is an advantage, but currently they only offer 720p and no special features and commentaries, one of the main reasons why I buy physical media.
Speaking of lack of Special features and commentaries...has anyone else noticed that when you get a physical disc from Netflix, they only give you the "rental copy" with nothing but the movie???
then there's the frustration that you can't get a digital download of movies you already own. So now you're going to have to re-purchase all your non-digital movies for an extra fee. I'm of a generation such that I've owned VHS, DVD, BD and now digital movies. I've had to re-purchase pretty much my entire library (at the time) every time they change formats, and i'm getting pretty tired of it. Why can't we learn from the music industry and just allow iTunes to rip movies legally if the disk is in DVD format (just like music CDs). Since Apple doesn't support BD I don't see the issue with just SD movies. They look great on my BD player when unconverted and I only use digital media for travel anyway....
well, just my 2 cents of bitching and moaning, just like 50% of the posts on here. I think we're all just frustrated with power struggle. Apple had a solution a simple access code. Why the big industry thought that wasn't adequate enough is beyond me.
Not exactly a fair fight but at least they can share the disappointment when Apple sees this opposing format running for the hills. The customers pay the wages, you have to keep them happy.
Not exactly a fair fight but at least they can share the disappointment when Apple sees this opposing format running for the hills. The customers pay the wages, you have to keep them happy.
Here's a good website that illustrates just how much media is controlled by just 7 companies...click on the "+" to see what each controls. It's quite shocking how much of what we see, hear and read is controlled by just a few Mega Corps.
file a complaint at support.ultraviolet.flixster.com.
it is the SD version of the feature but according to my sister she also got the Extras file. since the nephews are using iPads they won't notice the SD quality so she didn't mind that too much.
I complained on the site listed above and was emailed an iTunes code right away. I am so happy! I am deleting all the ultraviolet and flitter junk from my devices.
This, apple success is by combining art with science, it's only been the topic of apples success for years, why haven't the competitors figured that out yet? iOS and first iphone came it it didn't even support MMS or notifications or hell just about nothig was supported,and it was STILL a major success. WHy? Certainly not it's feature set. Because of it's genius design.
When you bring a kid to the store to get a computer for school, she goes "aww that imac is cute" not "this computer has a newer generation mother board with faster front side bus and 20% higher cpu performance for 400 dollars cheaper" That might be what daddy tries to tell the little girl, but he still comes home with the pretty imac
Stereo typed example i know but you get the idea heh.
But in general a flawed perception that raw power equals win. An iPad 2 is clocked 100MHz slower than the Motorola Xoom tablet and half the memory, and yet it carries 3x the 3D game performance and boasts a much better battery life.
Most of these companies think it's about throwing features at it, where as Apple knows it's about making good on your promises. They optimize everything to the max, Motorola on the other hand failed with Xoom because they just threw hardware specs at the standard Android OS & then spent the rest on commercials that grossly exaggerate the tablet's capabilities.
Apple also gets it's about simplicity and stability. People these days have no tolerance for devices or services that are clunky & complicated. We want technology to simplify our lives, not make it more complicated.
ahahhahhahahahahhahah.... when will these companies learn that it's all about the user experience. Crappy experience = crappy product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's… kind of how it goes. It should be evident in the phrase "HDCP".
Are you thick? First, you misquoted me, and second there are LOTS of HD devices that are not HDCP compliant and NO Apple's HD movies will NOT play on them. Apple DOES NOT issue a warning that their movies REQUIRE compliance. So unless you already know your device complies AND you know that Apple's movie require compliance, you risk renting a movie for which you can't get a refund, according to Apple's terms of service.
?there are LOTS of HD devices that are not HDCP compliant and NO Apple's HD movies will NOT play on them.
Yes. Which is the point I'm making. It makes sense that devices without High Definition Copy Protection will not be able to play High Definition movies that are Copy Protected.
You're kidding, right? This is most certainly a fraction of the cost of the electricity required to manufacture, store, ship, and sell (physical shop front or warehouse for mail order purchase) a physical disk.
Are you really sure about this? You do realise these servers (and all connected network services) need power constantly to keep them going? You do realise this servers have an environment cost in their production (as does all the connected network devices)
Are you really sure about this? You do realise these servers (and all connected network services) need power constantly to keep them going? You do realise this servers have an environment cost in their production (as does all the connected network devices)
You're really asking this? One server can serve millions of files in a day. How many store fronts would that require selling physical disks? And the environmental cost not just of transportation of the goods, but of people driving to and from stores? You've got to be kidding if you think serving the files digitally takes up one tenth of one percent of those resources.
I think this has a fundamental flaw in achieving individual consumer rights. If you appease those who wish to control you, you will always be under control. It's much better to not to accept these terms in the first place.
If that's the case people need to understand that buying the movie off iTunes instead of buying the Blu-ray isn't the best solution.
Comments
I have ripped all 600 movies into non-DRM copies. Older iTunes' digital copies often only have stereo audio and poor quality. I can get better audio when I rip the disc. I will never buy any movie under UV because any DRM is not worth having, even iTunes fair-use, although it is the best I've seen so far. My beef with iTunes is their DRM content is tied to an AppleID and Apple won't let me merge the different IDs into one.
So I believe ripping a physical disc is way better because you get the video and audio quality of the disc. The only problem was the time it takes getting a large movie library ripped, but once it's done, adding new purchases are no big deal.
My point is any DRM, and especially UltraViolet, will never really work for the ardent digital movie owner. I'm sure much more music was sold at the iTMS after the store went DRM free than before. The companies need to trust their customers. Sure there will always be those who steal, but copy protection didn't work on DVDs when the studios tried to shove it down our throats and it's not going to work in digital world either.
Just my 2 cents!
What about the environmental cost in producing the hardware to store the movies, and the electricity required to power these digital download servers.
You're kidding, right? This is most certainly a fraction of the cost of the electricity required to manufacture, store, ship, and sell (physical shop front or warehouse for mail order purchase) a physical disk.
This is so fantastic. I didn't complain on Amazon, but I did complain in an email the day I got the Harry Potter part 2 disc that just released. And I got a prompt email from them offering me an iTunes redemption code. It never occurred to me that others would be as upset as I was. ...
sfoalex - where did you email? I sent an email to WB on the day I bought the combo pack as well, and haven't heard anything. Thanks!
So I believe ripping a physical disc is way better because you get the video and audio quality of the disc. The only problem was the time it takes getting a large movie library ripped, but once it's done, adding new purchases are no big deal.
My point is any DRM, and especially UltraViolet, will never really work for the ardent digital movie owner.
I agree ripping a physical disc is the best solution if you're able to do that. It's what I do.
That said, the idea of UltraViolet is the best solution if we are forced to have DRM.
In theory once you buy an UltraViolet movie you own a licence to that movie in perpetuity. From companies that support UltraViolet (which is basically everyone except Apple) you are then able to stream or download an offline copy of that movie.
The problem is that the implementation sucks at the moment. There is only one service that you can view your movie from and it seems like that application doesn't support downloading an offline copy.
The best outcome for Apple's customers (apart from no DRM at all) would actually be if Apple supported UltraViolet. Unfortunately at the moment Apple and the studios seem more focused on their own power struggle than the consumers.
I agree ripping a physical disc is the best solution if you're able to do that. It's what I do.
That said, the idea of UltraViolet is the best solution if we are forced to have DRM.
In theory once you buy an UltraViolet movie you own a licence to that movie in perpetuity. From companies that support UltraViolet (which is basically everyone except Apple) you are then able to stream or download an offline copy of that movie.
The problem is that the implementation sucks at the moment. There is only one service that you can view your movie from and it seems like that application doesn't support downloading an offline copy.
The best outcome for Apple's customers (apart from no DRM at all) would actually be if Apple supported UltraViolet. Unfortunately at the moment Apple and the studios seem more focused on their own power struggle than the consumers.
Maybe it's a power struggle. I don't want to play though. I have not found one DVD that I purchased that a ripping tool couldn't rip. I have several software tools to rip DVDs and if you know how to use them properly they can rip anything the Studios can get away with, even the 99 title copy protection trick is easily defeated if you know how. DRM, such as UltraViolet, is only meant to make an end-run around fair-use laws, not to defeat piracy. The piracy myth doesn't hold water anymore. As long as there is DRM, there will be a tool to defeat it. I buy all my software and entertainment content legally and why should I be denied easy access to it. To me that falls under mass punishment.
".... licence to that movie in perpetuity ..."
Is that like MS' Play-for-Sure? I have a basement full of gadgets and software content with propriety formats that have been abandoned.
"That said, the idea of UltraViolet is the best solution if we are forced to have DRM."
I think this has a fundamental flaw in achieving individual consumer rights. If you appease those who wish to control you, you will always be under control. It's much better to not to accept these terms in the first place.
Warner distancing itself from the cartel. Angry customers. Hollywood at its finest.
Was that supposed to be "utraviolent" or "ultraviolated"? What?
Because the only way to get an HD movie with HD audio is via optical disk, and since sales of Blu-ray are continuing to increase, consumers must want them.
The sales of Blu Rays are going up for a three reasons
1. They have raised the price of a regular DVD significantly and lowered the price of a Blu Ray in an effort to get you to buy the blu ray
2. They have stopped giving us all the extras we used to get on dvd and are making them available only on blu ray format
3. They won't sell their HD versions on iTunes in a dumb effort to keep us from buying there
The last one I needed a way to use some type of parental controls, hide the movie, or delete it from my flixster account. I have sent like 6 e-mails and they don't know how to remove it or there is nothing in the flixster collections pc software or flixster app to change anything once you added it to your account. I finally got them to allow me to redownload the digital copies and I opened up another account with a different e-mail so I could completely start over with this stuff. I am a tech guy and this has been frustrating but most folks will not put up with what I did.
My ipad kept getting low memory error messages when I tried playing Harry Potter DHpt2, so I e-mailed their tech support and I did get an itunes digital copy code.
I think the service is not ready for prime time.
I have used the WB DCM mobile app Warner provided when some of their movies had only a windows media digital copy code and no itunes. When I upgraded my iphone 3gs to a 4S and I resynced the app it now crashes which is probably due to a drm issue. I e-mailed tech support and get no response now. My guess is Warner has moved on from that and is only going to support ultraviolet.
Furthermore, all this Handbrake talk is sort of pointless for Mac users now that most movies are on BD, and Apple does not support BD.
I'm one of those people that prefer physical media over Digital. and that's mainly for security, special features and commentaries. Hard drives fail. Server farms can fail...and then what do you have? Nothing. Granted with iTunes they store all your purchases for re-download, that is an advantage, but currently they only offer 720p and no special features and commentaries, one of the main reasons why I buy physical media.
Speaking of lack of Special features and commentaries...has anyone else noticed that when you get a physical disc from Netflix, they only give you the "rental copy" with nothing but the movie???
then there's the frustration that you can't get a digital download of movies you already own. So now you're going to have to re-purchase all your non-digital movies for an extra fee. I'm of a generation such that I've owned VHS, DVD, BD and now digital movies. I've had to re-purchase pretty much my entire library (at the time) every time they change formats, and i'm getting pretty tired of it. Why can't we learn from the music industry and just allow iTunes to rip movies legally if the disk is in DVD format (just like music CDs). Since Apple doesn't support BD I don't see the issue with just SD movies. They look great on my BD player when unconverted and I only use digital media for travel anyway....
well, just my 2 cents of bitching and moaning, just like 50% of the posts on here. I think we're all just frustrated with power struggle. Apple had a solution a simple access code. Why the big industry thought that wasn't adequate enough is beyond me.
Comcast
HP
Intel
LG
Microsoft
Motorola Mobility
Netflix
Nokia
Panasonic
Philips
Samsung
Toshiba
Fox
Paramount
Sony
NBC Universal
Warner
RIAA
Vs
Apple
Disney
Not exactly a fair fight but at least they can share the disappointment when Apple sees this opposing format running for the hills. The customers pay the wages, you have to keep them happy.
Adobe
Comcast
HP
Intel
LG
Microsoft
Motorola Mobility
Netflix
Nokia
Panasonic
Philips
Samsung
Toshiba
Fox
Paramount
Sony
NBC Universal
Warner
RIAA
Vs
Apple
Disney
Not exactly a fair fight but at least they can share the disappointment when Apple sees this opposing format running for the hills. The customers pay the wages, you have to keep them happy.
Here's a good website that illustrates just how much media is controlled by just 7 companies...click on the "+" to see what each controls. It's quite shocking how much of what we see, hear and read is controlled by just a few Mega Corps.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...s/cool/giants/
file a complaint at support.ultraviolet.flixster.com.
it is the SD version of the feature but according to my sister she also got the Extras file. since the nephews are using iPads they won't notice the SD quality so she didn't mind that too much.
I complained on the site listed above and was emailed an iTunes code right away. I am so happy! I am deleting all the ultraviolet and flitter junk from my devices.
This, apple success is by combining art with science, it's only been the topic of apples success for years, why haven't the competitors figured that out yet? iOS and first iphone came it it didn't even support MMS or notifications or hell just about nothig was supported,and it was STILL a major success. WHy? Certainly not it's feature set. Because of it's genius design.
When you bring a kid to the store to get a computer for school, she goes "aww that imac is cute" not "this computer has a newer generation mother board with faster front side bus and 20% higher cpu performance for 400 dollars cheaper" That might be what daddy tries to tell the little girl, but he still comes home with the pretty imac
Stereo typed example i know but you get the idea heh.
But in general a flawed perception that raw power equals win. An iPad 2 is clocked 100MHz slower than the Motorola Xoom tablet and half the memory, and yet it carries 3x the 3D game performance and boasts a much better battery life.
Most of these companies think it's about throwing features at it, where as Apple knows it's about making good on your promises. They optimize everything to the max, Motorola on the other hand failed with Xoom because they just threw hardware specs at the standard Android OS & then spent the rest on commercials that grossly exaggerate the tablet's capabilities.
Apple also gets it's about simplicity and stability. People these days have no tolerance for devices or services that are clunky & complicated. We want technology to simplify our lives, not make it more complicated.
ahahhahhahahahahhahah.... when will these companies learn that it's all about the user experience. Crappy experience = crappy product.
That's… kind of how it goes. It should be evident in the phrase "HDCP".
Are you thick? First, you misquoted me, and second there are LOTS of HD devices that are not HDCP compliant and NO Apple's HD movies will NOT play on them. Apple DOES NOT issue a warning that their movies REQUIRE compliance. So unless you already know your device complies AND you know that Apple's movie require compliance, you risk renting a movie for which you can't get a refund, according to Apple's terms of service.
?there are LOTS of HD devices that are not HDCP compliant and NO Apple's HD movies will NOT play on them.
Yes. Which is the point I'm making. It makes sense that devices without High Definition Copy Protection will not be able to play High Definition movies that are Copy Protected.
The sales of Blu Rays are going up for a three reasons
1. They have raised the price of a regular DVD significantly and lowered the price of a Blu Ray in an effort to get you to buy the blu ray
2. They have stopped giving us all the extras we used to get on dvd and are making them available only on blu ray format
3. They won't sell their HD versions on iTunes in a dumb effort to keep us from buying there
4. Buying from iTunes is for schmucks
4. Buying from iTunes is for schmucks
And your detailed, unbiased analysis of this is??
You're kidding, right? This is most certainly a fraction of the cost of the electricity required to manufacture, store, ship, and sell (physical shop front or warehouse for mail order purchase) a physical disk.
Are you really sure about this? You do realise these servers (and all connected network services) need power constantly to keep them going? You do realise this servers have an environment cost in their production (as does all the connected network devices)
Are you really sure about this? You do realise these servers (and all connected network services) need power constantly to keep them going? You do realise this servers have an environment cost in their production (as does all the connected network devices)
You're really asking this? One server can serve millions of files in a day. How many store fronts would that require selling physical disks? And the environmental cost not just of transportation of the goods, but of people driving to and from stores? You've got to be kidding if you think serving the files digitally takes up one tenth of one percent of those resources.
I think this has a fundamental flaw in achieving individual consumer rights. If you appease those who wish to control you, you will always be under control. It's much better to not to accept these terms in the first place.
If that's the case people need to understand that buying the movie off iTunes instead of buying the Blu-ray isn't the best solution.